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Twin Peaks Season 3 |OT2| It's Just A Change, Not An End

Chitown B

Member
LHev1tY.gif


What show are you watching again ?

Plus if that is a problem, just don't make the scene, you know.



That doesn't match a single thing that was said about it, awesome.



So him being extremely cold and distant with Diane, speaking really slowly in the diner, even ignoring and not replying to Laura in a car for seemingly the whole trip, the mean demeanor when he asked if she recognized anything, to you, that's just being "determined". K. (it's not)



And the room he was in with Diane is magically the exact same he wakes up in ? What were the odds ?

Yeah he looked puzzled at the motel because he noticed things changed once he was outside.



And why and how would that happen ? This is based off literally nothing.



False memories ? It's one thing to come up with theories, it's another to make stuff up to then make theories about it.

You seem really set on attacking me. I'm not sure it's even worth it to respond to your errors. But I never said it was not bad coop with Diane after 430. It was. Then he wakes up and it's not.
 

Airola

Member
So him being extremely cold and distant with Diane, speaking really slowly in the diner, even ignoring and not replying to Laura in a car for seemingly the whole trip, the mean demeanor when he asked if she recognized anything, to you, that's just being "determined". K. (it's not)

I think he's a spirit in Richard's body.

And I think that if you are a spirit in the world, you have both sides of you experiencing the things. It's not anymore that the other side of you would be "a few nanoseconds past in time" like Robert Engels said, but both sides are together in the exact same time. And they make the whole person be quite different compared to how that person would be if either the good or the bad side was in control.
 

Blader

Member
Yeah but to what end? Preventing her death from happening in theory prevents all the events that lead to BOBs demise from happening wouldn't it? If Laura never dies, Coop never goes to twin peaks, hell maybe he'd end up wondering about in Deer Meadow for a while until realizing there were no leads.Obviously living is preferable but it's almost as if Coop thinks saving her is good enough to be a huge impact on the timeline, but I can't see how it's better.

Hell Carrie realizing she's Laura right at the end and screaming basically says to me that "to be Laura is to be forever be suffering"

Maybe the endgame is, just saving a girl's life? That seems like a perfectly Cooper goal. He came to Twin Peaks to get justice for Laura's death. Now he actually has the power to maybe prevent that death from happening.

I don't know what impact that has on the overall timeline and the ripple effects it produces, and I'm not sure Cooper is necessarily thinking about that either. I think the motive and goal on his part are much simpler than any of that.

Reading back over some of the stuff that was in this season has made me think a lot of it was just pointless time filler. Maybe I'm just not sharp enough to interpret why they were there, but stuff like Ashley Judd's character, Audrey's dad, Shelly's daughter, a few others... what were any of these even about?

Just starting these plots up and then telling us after a certain point to "forget about all this now." kind of feels like a cop out.

Well, what are the subplots in any episode of Twin Peaks about? The show isn't just about Laura and Lodge spirits and doppelgangers and whatever Cooper is pursuing. For better or worse, the show has always spanned a town's worth of characters -- and this year, several states' worth of characters -- and given us glimpses into their lives, conflicts, relationships, etc. It's just world-building details. And a lot of it points to how these characters have changed, or not, over the years. Like on the one hand, you have Ben Horne who actually turns down an affair and Bobby growing into what his father envisioned for him. On the other hand, you have not only Becky being caught up in the same Leo-esque relationship that her mother had when she was her age, but Shelley herself also falling back into that same pattern of dysfunctional relationships with bad men.

benicillin said:
I also still haven't quite figured out the significance of Laura screaming in the lodge at the beginning and end of S3 and getting sucked into the sky.

Maybe a ripple effect of Coop's attempt to change the past? Coop saves Laura, but Judy takes her away -- which also takes away the older Laura in the Black Lodge (a place that doesn't seem to have a normal relationship to time as it is), maybe?
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
When Coop and Mike go up the stairs to go towards philip i swear we get a small glimps of a man with a long nose, could that be one of those plastered mask beings from FWWM?
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
the more i think about this show, the more i'm on board with you. the speculation in this thread seems kinda silly. i'm not convinced lynch thought about half this stuff as much as some of the people in here.

with that, i'll leave you guys to it, don't want to clutter the thread up.
It's Twin Peaks. The speculation, dissection, interpretations, and etc are half of the fun of watching this show. The most boring thing they could've done creatively is explain every little aspect of the show/characters to us on a silver platter. We already got a million of those TV shows already. The dark mystique is the main reason why many of us watch this show tbh.

When Coop and Mike go up the stairs to go towards philip i swear we get a small glimps of a man with a long nose, could that be one of those plastered mask beings from FWWM?
Yea, we clearly see the Jumping man come down as Coop & Mike go up.

"From pure air. We have descended...from pure air. Going up and down. Intercourse between the two worlds"
 
Anyone here familiar with Luis Buñuel's work? I've only seen Belle de Jour. Does any of his surrealist work compare to Lynch's sense of uneasiness and horror? (like, say, episode 18).

It’s different, a Buñuel film has never left me terrified like Lynch’s work can do, but yeah, Buñuel (and Dali) is considered the master of the surreal. Simón of the desert is my favorite of his, probably, but it deals more so with atheism and Catholicism in a dark humoristic way, but the ending is the most jarring Lynch-like thing he did. I think. It’s been a while since I’ve seen his stuff.
 
the more i think about this show, the more i'm on board with you. the speculation in this thread seems kinda silly. i'm not convinced lynch thought about half this stuff as much as some of the people in here.

with that, i'll leave you guys to it, don't want to clutter the thread up.

David Lynch and Mark Frost worked on the script over the course of 4 years. Even if that was in fleeting moments that is a shitload more time than any person in this thread has thought about what's going on.
 
I also still haven't quite figured out the significance of Laura screaming in the lodge at the beginning and end of S3 and getting sucked into the sky.

It's after she whispers to Coop, which sets the events in motion. She gets pulled out of the Lodge because he manages to stop her from dying/encountering BOB, hence why she was there in the first place.

That's my poorly thought-out interpretation of it.
 
When Coop and Mike go up the stairs to go towards philip i swear we get a small glimps of a man with a long nose, could that be one of those plastered mask beings from FWWM?

It's The Jumping Man, who's the first person you see wearing the mask in FWWM. Some here speculate he's Judy (I'm not one of those people). That's not to say I have an explanation for him however.

Edit - Double post, sorry.
 

BTA

Member
There's absolutely no reason to believe the sex scene took place in the past, in my opinion, and I'm not sure why people keep pushing that theory. Literally the only thing it has in common with what Diane's tulpa said (and we have no reason to believe she was lying since nothing she said in that scene was deceiving the FBI characters in any way) is that sex occurred. That wasn't a rape scene at her house that started with him having a conversation with her about what the FBI was up to, etc.

They crossed over, Coop changed slightly (or was changed prior when he went back to the Lodge), it was uncomfortable and she covered his face because his mannerisms reminded her of Mr. C, and once he woke up he continues to have those mannerisms. That makes way more sense than assuming it was in the past with Mr. C, which... would mean nothing except that he didn't actually rape her? I guess? It's a theory that does nothing but make things more complicated to no end.
 

asagami_

Banned
Anyone here familiar with Luis Buñuel's work? I've only seen Belle de Jour. Does any of his surrealist work compare to Lynch's sense of uneasiness and horror? (like, say, episode 18).

hugocésar;247967363 said:
It’s different, a Buñuel film has never left me terrified like
Lynch’s work can do, but yeah, Buñuel (and Dali) is considered the master of the surreal. Simón of the desert is my favorite of his, probably, but it deals more so with atheism and Catholicism in a dark humoristic way, but the ending is the most jarring Lynch-like thing he did. I think. It’s been a while since I’ve seen his stuff.

Funny timing, I watched Simón of the desert this weekend. The ending is pretty crazy and I love everything about it. I also have in DVD Viridiana and The Exterminating Angel, and I hope get more Buñel films soon.
 

Addi

Member
Do we really know that saving Laura is like, Cooper's idea or end goal? Is it even about saving Laura, or is it about confronting Judy? Because it seems like he's just doing what Lodge residents are pointing him towards. Leland tells him twice (at the beginning and end of S3) to save Laura and the Fireman gives him a series of clues that lead him to Odessa.

I also still haven't quite figured out the significance of Laura screaming in the lodge at the beginning and end of S3 and getting sucked into the sky.

I also wonder about Mr. C's end goal. When he shows the card with the mother(?) drawing on it, he says that's what he wants. Does he want to become all-powerful? The Fireman's plan is to prevent him off attaining that goal, but at the same time he is indirectly protecting mother in doing that. Also, what's does hiding Diane mean in all of this?

Regarding the scream, my take on it is that the screams in the lodge, the scream after she disappears in episode 17 and the scream at the end are the same. It might be at the same time, only in different places. She wakes up at that moment or something. I wonder if the actual last shot of the the series is in episode 2 after she flies up into the skies and the red curtains pull up and we see the white horse.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
This scene from the missing pieces still keeps getting played in my head. Every entity in that room seems to be older than BOB and the magician boy even seems to know BOB's fate once BOB opens his mouth and gives that fury momentum line.
"Fell a victim." He points at BOB. This scene and that line always stuck with me for some reason. As in BOB wasn't all that to begin with since these entities seem to in tune with everything much more.

https://youtu.be/ASdmYsbW-cY
 

Prurient

Banned
This scene from the missing pieces still keeps getting played in my head. Every entity in that room seems to be older than BOB and the magician boy even seems to know BOB's fate once BOB opens his mouth and gives that fury momentum line.
"Fell a victim." He points at BOB. This scene and that line always stuck with me for some reason. As in BOB wasn't all that to begin with since these entities seem to in tune with everything much more.

https://youtu.be/ASdmYsbW-cY

I wonder if it means BOB will eventually fall victim to human impulses and desires from inhabiting and feeding so much. Mr. C's plan of wanting to be all-powerful feels like a very human goal, whereas the other Lodge members don't seem to have such a grand scheme and just want to exist to feed on our world.

Edit: I also believe that the 'from pure air...' line confirms (to me), that the nuclear testing is what opened the link between our worlds.
 
I think I want another season now.

Imagine an inter-dimensional adventure with Richard Cooper and Carrie Laura w/ more new cast and more doppelgangers of old characters playing new people.

Cooper's goal is trying to get back to the right "Twin Peaks" dimension. The set-up is there for more. They ended it this way just in case they wanted to do a season 4. It is intentionally open-ended for a reason.

Imagine a complete alternate universe with familiar faces playing different people.
oh man..... my mind is just racing with ideas...
 

Blader

Member
I also wonder about Mr. C's end goal. When he shows the card with the mother(?) drawing on it, he says that's what he wants. Does he want to become all-powerful? The Fireman's plan is to prevent him off attaining that goal, but at the same time he is indirectly protecting mother in doing that. Also, what's does hiding Diane mean in all of this?

I think Mr. C, like Windom Earle, is a chess piece who wants to be a player. And where Earle saw the Black Lodge as his key to gaining power, for Mr. C it's the White Lodge (since, as both a doppelganger and a vessel for BOB, Mr. C is already connected to the Black Lodge).

I don't know how Diane/Naido factors in all this, or why it was important for Andy to protect her, though.
 

Chitown B

Member
I think I want another season now.

Imagine an inter-dimensional adventure with Richard Cooper and Carrie Laura w/ more new cast and more doppelgangers of old characters playing new people.

Cooper's goal is trying to get back to the right "Twin Peaks" dimension. The set-up is there for more. They ended it this way just in case they wanted to do a season 4. It is intentionally open-ended for a reason.

Imagine a complete alternate universe with familiar faces playing different people.
oh man..... my mind is just racing with ideas...

Eh. With the amount of people who are dead now, or weren't asked back for S3, I think that ship has sailed. And no one cares about the new characters introduced in S3.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
I wonder if it means BOB will eventually fall victim to human impulses and desires from inhabiting and feeding so much. Mr. C's plan of wanting to be all-powerful feels like a very human goal, whereas the other Lodge members don't seem to have such a grand scheme and just want to exist to feed on our world.

Edit: I also believe that the 'from pure air...' line confirms (to me), that the nuclear testing is what opened the link between our worlds.
I see this as well. It's his ego that does him in. Got too greedy and couldn't keep in the shadows. And that pure air line definitely confirms the nuclear test theory. I believe someone linked the formica tables green color to green rocks produced as a byproduct of project Trinity in 1945 in New Mexico. Which we also see in episode 8.

I think I want another season now.

Imagine an inter-dimensional adventure with Richard Cooper and Carrie Laura w/ more new cast and more doppelgangers of old characters playing new people.

Cooper's goal is trying to get back to the right "Twin Peaks" dimension. The set-up is there for more. They ended it this way just in case they wanted to do a season 4. It is intentionally open-ended for a reason.

Imagine a complete alternate universe with familiar faces playing different people.
oh man..... my mind is just racing with ideas...
This is the first thing I said to my friend when watching with him as well. It's ended perfectly for any direction they want to take it and build upon as in movie or new TV season.
 

Boem

Member
I think I want another season now.

Imagine an inter-dimensional adventure with Richard Cooper and Carrie Laura w/ more new cast and more doppelgangers of old characters playing new people.

Cooper's goal is trying to get back to the right "Twin Peaks" dimension. The set-up is there for more. They ended it this way just in case they wanted to do a season 4. It is intentionally open-ended for a reason.

Imagine a complete alternate universe with familiar faces playing different people.
oh man..... my mind is just racing with ideas...

The risk you run with that is that, after a season of misadventures and seeing all the old actors in new roles, Cooper gets Twin Peaks back to the way it's supposed to be in the last episode and...cue people begging for a season 5 now that the pieces are all finally where they're supposed to be.

I'm only half joking (for one thing - Peaks will never be so neatly tied up, no matter how many seasons we'll get), and I do think that's part of where the story might go if we get more after this. I would be very happy with more Peaks, if only because I enjoyed this experience so much and I'd love it if something like this could happen again. But storywise I'm completely satisfied. Way more than I expected to be before I watched the finale.

If this is really the end, I'm completely at peace with it. I've been thinking about this show all they, and the more I think about the finale, the more fitting it seems to me. What a ride.

(That last part wasn't a comment on your post, I like your idea. Just rambling a bit here).
 

Cheebo

Banned
Like most of this series; absolutely fucking nothing.

The only way to see it this way is to have your head in the sand. EVERY scene mattered. We were confused about the Audrey scenes for a while but after 18 it became clear Audrey's scenes explained the end, that they had the answers the entire time for example.

I outlined the Audrey centrality to the end here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6y56lu/s3e18_theory_audreys_scenes_held_the_answer_the/
In Audrey's scenes we witness an Audrey who seems confused about herself. Not quite sure who she is or what is real.
Who does she remind you of? Laura, Cooper, and Diane when they are in the "Odessa" universe as Carrie, Richard, and Linda.
And what happens when Audrey realizes her reality isn't real? It goes black and she snaps back to her reality. An Audrey that doesn't look like the one we know. Straight hair, no makeup. Perhaps in an institution.
What we witnessed was an Audrey from one universe "dreaming" of herself in the other reality. Somewhat confused and losing sight of who she was before a sudden realization and snapping back to her reality, wherever it may be.
This gives the final scene hope. Laura's scream and the house going dark is much like when Audrey realized her reality at the bang bang bar with Charlie wasn't her reality and suddenly woke up.
Perhaps like Audrey, Laura snaps back and awakens right there on the steps of the Palmer household but in her reality, with Judy inside? Or at least awakens to another place, closer to her destiny with Judy than before.
When the Arm repeats Charlies line of "Is this the story of the little girl down the lane?" it is Lynch's clue to us. The answer was in the Audrey's scenes. We witnessed someone traversing one reality to another to be an alternate version of them self before the Odessa scenes, with Audrey. And she was able to wake up. Which means Laura too can wake up. And perhaps that is what we witnessed at the very end giving hope to the battle against Judy.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
The risk you run with that is that, after a season of misadventures and seeing all the old actors in new roles, Cooper gets Twin Peaks back to the way it's supposed to be in the last episode and...cue people begging for a season 5 now that the pieces are all finally where they're supposed to be.

I'm only half joking (for one thing - Peaks will never be so neatly tied up, no matter how many seasons we'll get), and I do think that's part of where the story might go if we get more after this. I would be very happy with more Peaks, if only because I enjoyed this experience so much and I'd love it if something like this could happen again. But storywise I'm completely satisfied. Way more than I expected to be before I watched the finale.

If this is really the end, I'm completely at peace with it. I've been thinking about this show all they, and the more I think about the finale, the more fitting it seems to me. What a ride.

(That last part wasn't a comment on your post, I like your idea. Just rambling a bit here).

Lynch gave two rides.
 
Eh. With the amount of people who are dead now, or weren't asked back for S3, I think that ship has sailed. And no one cares about the new characters introduced in S3.

I definetly care about a lot of the new characters , especially those from vegas i.e mitchums, bushnell, jones family. The only characters that were not great were Stephen and Becky, and they're both likely to be dead.
 

SeroTyler

First one to talk gets to stay on the aircraft!
Just saw that Fire Walk With Me is getting a Criterion release, does that rule out a complete release of the whole series?
 

Corpsepyre

Banned

Dan-o

Member
What are peoples' general theories on Red (Balthazar Getty).
- he's magic
- he's with Shelly
- he's not a nice fellow

Is that about it? I feel like there's more to him that I may have missed...
 

Cheebo

Banned
Red and the crazies added nothing to the show though.

Richard working for Red is how Richard eventually was led to DoppleCoop. DoppleCoop used Richards connection as his son as bait to to test the coordinates that were the trap coordinates.

Red served his purpose to bring Richard to DoppleCoop for DoppleCoop to use to test the trap.
 

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
It's certainly a massive undertaking. Season 3 just finished airing in September 2017. S3 began filming in September 2015 and wrapped in April 2016. So it had an 8 month shoot and 11 months of post-production. Then add to that at least 12 months on writing it, and casting/pre-production went 11 months from October 2014 to August 2015.

That's roughly 42 months to get S3 made. 3.5 years. So even if Frost/Lynch wanted to do a S4, and if it were to be as long as S3, yeah, I'm thinking 2021 at the absolute earliest.

Maybe they would make a movie ala FWWM
 

Cheebo

Banned
It's certainly a massive undertaking. Season 3 just finished airing in September 2017. S3 began filming in September 2015 and wrapped in April 2016. So it had an 8 month shoot and 11 months of post-production. Then add to that at least 12 months on writing it, and casting/pre-production went 11 months from October 2014 to August 2015.

That's roughly 42 months to get S3 made. 3.5 years. So even if Frost/Lynch wanted to do a S4, and if it were to be as long as S3, yeah, I'm thinking 2021 at the absolute earliest.
Back in 2015 shortly before filming Lynch said he and Mark Frost worked on the scripts for 4 years.

Based on what Lynch said the writing began in 2011.
 

Blader

Member
Cooper's goal is trying to get back to the right "Twin Peaks" dimension. The set-up is there for more. They ended it this way just in case they wanted to do a season 4. It is intentionally open-ended for a reason.

It's intentionally open-ended, but I don't think the reason for that is to necessarily lay the groundwork for season 4. It's open-ended because Lynch, seemingly no matter what, always wants the last word on Twin Peaks to be open-ended. The meaning in the cliffhanger -- whether it's Cooper succumbing to ultimate evil at the end of S2 or his failure to change Laura's fate as they're both enveloped in a living nightmare -- is more important to him than the narrative resolution.

I hope there's a fourth season someday, regardless of what that entails. But I think it's safe to assume that if there is a season 4, that too will also end on a big cliffhanger.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Talk of alternative reality timelines and reusing the same cast makes me think of American Horror Story a bit.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Why was Laura a waitress named Carrie?

If the idea is the show is continuing in an alternate dimension but the cast comes back I can imagine them doing things like that. I don’t especially want it but that was the suggestion.

Why would it be in that reality? The ending was Laura being ripped out of it, everything went dark in the house as she screamed. Just like when Audrey was ripped out of the one universe earlier.
 
Why was Laura a waitress named Carrie?

If the idea is the show is continuing in an alternate dimension but the cast comes back I can imagine them doing things like that. I don't especially want it but that was the suggestion.
I'd be totally down for Twin Peaks continuing with the same themes and actors (mythology even) but a different world and characters. The spirit living on but always something new

I had more fun watching this show than caring about how it tied into the larger Twin Peaks legacy
 

Aaron

Member
Didn't care for the ending. Not because it was obtuse, which is why I expected, but most of the plot threads were either dropped at the end or done away with in the least interesting way possible. Bad Coop just sits in a chair waiting to be shot? One Punch Boy does exactly what everyone expected him to do? Absolutely no payoff for any of the roadhouse stuff? Meh.
 

Solo

Member
Maybe they would make a movie ala FWWM

This is probably both simpler and a LOT more realistic/feasible, and would get Peaks back on our screens in a couple of years as opposed to another half decade or more. I could see Lynch being unwillingly to tackle another 7 year, 18 hour trip to Peaks again. But a 2 hour movie? That would not only maybe be beneficial for Lynch and the fans, but Showtime could also market it is a prestige feature film from an auteur, exclusive on their service.

Twin Peaks: Interdimensional Multiverse Walk With Me
 

asagami_

Banned
Just saw that Fire Walk With Me is getting a Criterion release, does that rule out a complete release of the whole series?

I was thinking about this. I don't have proofs, but I like to lurking in Amazon and I have the feeling The Entire Mystery is going to be descontinued, if not already. I can't find it in my local Amazon, but the Gold Box set, yes. Maybe they are expecting to update the Entire Mystery with the third season.

Of course the FWWM Criterion edition can be a nice addition to whose who have already the Gold Box, because it will include The Missing Pieces., both in DVD and Bluray.
 
Didn't care for the ending. Not because it was obtuse, which is why I expected, but most of the plot threads were either dropped at the end or done away with in the least interesting way possible. Bad Coop just sits in a chair waiting to be shot? One Punch Boy does exactly what everyone expected him to do? Absolutely no payoff for any of the roadhouse stuff? Meh.

That's kind of where I'm at. I like the ending itself, on a thematic and stylistic level, but the show asks the audience to be invested in a lot of different threads that simply have no conclusion.

I mean, yeah, that's how real life can be - threads with no meaningful end point; when one ends, we leave it behind for another, unsure of where it might take us, if anywhere at all. Maybe that's the point, even if it's not satisfying.
 
I think it's telling that so many people, however they feel about the ending want more.

I mean, count me in that group.

But I will expect this time around, that while I will get all the answers I want for the questions rattling around inside my brain right now, that I'll be left with as many pressing questions when the next run (should it happen) is over.

I wish I'd gone into this series feeling that way... but that'll be my mindset next time out.
 
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