Cells are humans too, haven't you heard? You monster.
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TX State Senator leads 11 hour filibuster that successfully beats anti-abortion bill
- Thread starter ivysaur12
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Cells are humans too, haven't you heard? You monster.
Jake Tower
Banned
Is your heart really this hard? More than 50 million people have been put to death in the womb since 1972.
The genocide of native Americans was indeed horrific, but I think it's a bit too late to stop it.
RustyNails
Member
Perfect.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Then why would waste your time outlawing abortion? Because you saw how well outlawing alcohol or marijuana worked?
Outlawing abortion won't stop "the American Holocaust," it'll just add young women who resort to dangerous back alley abortions to the toll. If you want to end abortion, win the hearts and minds of the public.
Which shit like SB5 isn't doing.
mugurumakensei
Member
5.6 million people die from hunger-related causes each year.
A lot of the kids who were aborted would have been born into lives that would have them dying or incarcerated by the time they were in their mid-20s.
Don't give me the spiel about they could be put up for adoption either. There's already a lot of kids who have yet to be adopted.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Logical fallacies all up in here.
GravityMan
Member
Perhaps it's for the best that you go back to not commenting on "political" topics.
I... don't know how to respond to this.
Of course, by Godwin rules, you automatically lost.
Holocaust has very specific meaning that is completely disregarded when applying it to an abortion debate and makes the person who has tried to apply it look uneducated and crass.
Try using genocide or infanticide if you want, but Holocaust simply does not fit from a logical perspective.
Try using genocide or infanticide if you want, but Holocaust simply does not fit from a logical perspective.
Half and half
Member
I'm with you, man. Most of America is, too. I'm glad you expected the dogpiling, and were still willing to speak your mind. It's easier to be silent, that's for sure. I think that's the intent of the dogpiling. Sometimes, it gets lonely in here. Nice to meet you. (To be clear, I don't think a zygote's or embryo's life is of the exact same value as an adult's life (hence why I believe abortion should be available in cases of the mother's life endangerment), but I think it's still extremely valuable, valuable enough to warrant protection through law against non-rapeincestlifethreatening abortions. But either way, I'm glad to see another voice in here.)
Do you agree with his usage of the term 'Holocaust' to describe this issue?
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Hahaha brilliant.
Well, its not like the other side doesn't Godwin. I saw like 5 Godwins yesterday in the other major polinews threads and no one batted an eye.
lol @ 'holocaust' though. I'm anti-aborition except in rape/incest/life and health of the mother cases, but get real.
Yeah, I'm not excusing it. But jesus, straight to Holocaust, huh?
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I don't think people who use such incendiary language and little else are interested or capable of any sort of reasonable discussion.
Citation needed.
Citation needed.
posted yet? Republican women look kinda evil, especially the one on the right.
I'm convinced they are all robots. If you peel away a bit of flesh then you would see a metallic skeleton.
Jake Tower
Banned
State sanctioned and societal denial of humanity of a group allowing its members to be put to death.
No, it was extreme. But if I'm going to be honest with myself, more than its extremeness, I probably disagree with the term's usage more for PR reasons. You never persuade others by making Nazi references (as shown a few posts above this), even if the analogy is apt. People have purged the possibility of a Holocaust analogy being applicable.
But I do agree that the number of abortions we perform in this country is morally revolting. And I think the marginalization of the fetus by calling it "cells" or "blobs" to the point where we don't even MENTION it in abortion arguments, e.g. "It's her body, her choice! [Missing: acknowledgement of the fetus's body and rights and choice.]" is one of the most successful pieces of negative propaganda of the current century thus far.
EDIT:
He got banned? Wow. First time I've seen a Godwin's law reference be banned. Well, there goes my company I was just saying I was so happy to have...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/162548/americans-misjudge-abortion-views.aspx
This shows not only that most Americans support restricting abortion, but also that most Americans incorrectly believe that the pro-choice viewpoint is more popular. Thus corroborating my assertion that much of the pro-choice rhetoric has been extremely effective propaganda in altering people's perceptions of the country's opinion, but has been less effective at altering their actual viewpoints.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
So when a women miscarried or naturally abort or the zygote fails to bind to the uterine wall, is that morally reprehensible?
Also the Romanian communist dictator banned abortions and fucked up the country for generations.
Well, I would say that (apart from your emergency in case of rape/cost of women's health thing) that pro-restriction advocates tend to ignore/marginalise the existence of the mother and her family etc. Obviously we end up fundamentally in a 'when does life begin' issue etc but as a general observation it seems that pro-restriction advocates are very enthusiastic about protecting life inside the womb up until the point the baby is actually born and then social responsibility appears to end.
Well, you're banned now, but I'll respond.
You cannot say that a state sanctioned large group of deaths is a Holocaust because the term has very specific meaning in the Jewish religion. It was applied to the mass killings of Jews during World War II because of the sacrifice that the Jewish people, both living free and living in concentration camps, had to make. Those who would be killed by the Nazi regime were likely to later be burned (probably to make for easier removal of the remains). These two aspects drew sharp parallels to a religious practice of their Jewish ancestors in which a sacrifice was wholly consumed by fire, leaving no meat for the people to enjoy afterwards. This was considered the most sacred of animal sacrifices.
So when you say 'X is the Holocaust of X' you're specifically using the term incorrectly. It, by definition, CANNOT be the 'Holocaust of X'. Unless X=Jewish people.
Also it makes you sound like an ass.
I didn't realize that a zygote was the same as a member of society. Do they have birth certificates? What about all of the fertilized eggs (~1/3) that fail to even catch on to the wall of the uterus? Should I start making flower arrangements for the funeral?
It's a morally complicated question and all you've done is provide an incendiary and reprehensible comparison that diminishes the plight of those affected by the Holocaust.
EDIT: oh, banned.
I think it was genius political maneuvering by Dewhurst and co. I'd like to believe that most of these politicans don't believe a thing they say. Their goal is to remain employed and in office as long as they possibly can be. They had their little vote but woops, it happened after midnight so it didn't count. Shucks! We tried so hard.. please keep electing us! They were probably doing a countdown in their little huddle.
Even if they come cross as crazies themselves, I think Austinites can kind of relate to the Quebecois.
Even if they come cross as crazies themselves, I think Austinites can kind of relate to the Quebecois.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
When a woman gets an abortion, she is basically saying, I am unfit to be a mother in this current situation. The reasons could be medical, social, economics, domestic abuse, a failure of contraception or a myriad of valid reasons. Why force that woman to carry to term?
I can't speak for all of those who are pro-choice, but for me it's in part because they don't have any because a fetus isn't a person.
Sutton Dagger
Member
Is constantly calling a fetus a 'baby/child' also one of the most successful pieces of negative propaganda of the current century thus far?
Squirrel Killer
Member
From your own link that you link in a later post, "...nearly even division of Americans' actual views. The same poll finds that 48% of Americans call themselves pro-life and 45% pro-choice." 48% isn't "most," and the 3% difference between the two views is well within the margin of error.
Since Jake Tower can't answer, I'll ask you... Then why would waste your time outlawing abortion? Because you saw how well outlawing alcohol or marijuana worked?
Outlawing abortion won't stop "the American Holocaust," it'll just add young women who resort to dangerous back alley abortions to the toll.
Again 48% != "most."
You're forgetting that while there are your typical "Are you pro-choice or pro-life" Gallup polls, that the way the question is phrased is very important.
Also, this bill isn't about whether one is pro-choice or pro-life. It's about whether or not the state should shut down almost all of its abortion clinics.
You're forgetting there's a reason this was attempted to be jammed through last minute in the dead of night. Gay marriage debate this was not.
Zoe
Member
Yeah. Let's not forget he used to be a Democrat. He's like the only person from his town who is a Republican now. He does what he needs to to get into office.
BertramCooper
Banned
The funny thing is that people typically against abortion are also against social safety nets that would help said children if they weren't aborted.
Abortion polling in general seems to be extremely volatile.
After all the stupid comments by Todd Akin and the like in the 2012 election there were more people calling themselves pro-choice than ever before in polling.
Now after the Gosnell case we have a large swing toward people saying they're pro-life.
After all the stupid comments by Todd Akin and the like in the 2012 election there were more people calling themselves pro-choice than ever before in polling.
Now after the Gosnell case we have a large swing toward people saying they're pro-life.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Korea doesn't have proper sex education and it has like almost no unwanted pregnancies. It's not simply a matter of ignorance or a lack of education.
What exactly does Korea do? Just a cultural thing?
TheHeretic
Banned
Holocaust actually means death by fire, and the comparison doesn't work for so many reasons I don't know where to start.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Lt Gov/Senate President ruled that the Republicans' attempt to ram the bill through in the last minutes of the special session failed and the bill will not be sent to the governor.
Not that I am against safety nets but those strike me as two mostly unrelated matters.
A lot of factors actually. Korean students just don't have a lot of time for one. They are always out doing something and it's hard to maintain even just a relationship sometimes as a result. You have school in the morning, then you have after extra-curricular activities which aren't mandatory but might as well be and if you're not doing that you're studying. You're constantly busy so it's hard to get... busy.
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