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UFC 164: Henderson vs. Pettis 2 |OT| Will Lightning Strike Twice?
- Thread starter polyh3dron
- Start date
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Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Anyone who bets on Henderson losing probably shouldn't have that money in the first place.
Will remember this quote when Pettis knocks Henderson the fuck out.
Jest Chillin
Member
Some of these replies are chuckle worthy.
Bendo:
7 fights since entering the UFC
4 title fights (3 of them defenses)
3 of the 7 fights top 5 guys in the division (Edgar, Diaz, Melendez)
4 of his last 6 opponents are Wrestlers
2 of his last 6 opponents are BJJ specialists
Pettis:
4 fights since entering the UFC
3 wins (1 a split decision gift against an unranked fighter)
2 knockouts against fighters in the top 10 (outside of the top 5)
1 loss to a guy soon to be cut from the organization
3 of last 4 opponents have no Specialty
1 of last 4 opponents is a Wrestler
Don't get me wrong.. Pettis has a great skillset and can beat Bendo.. but Bendo's clearly had the tougher path against fighters it's much harder to create highlight reel clips against.
Bendo:
7 fights since entering the UFC
4 title fights (3 of them defenses)
3 of the 7 fights top 5 guys in the division (Edgar, Diaz, Melendez)
4 of his last 6 opponents are Wrestlers
2 of his last 6 opponents are BJJ specialists
Pettis:
4 fights since entering the UFC
3 wins (1 a split decision gift against an unranked fighter)
2 knockouts against fighters in the top 10 (outside of the top 5)
1 loss to a guy soon to be cut from the organization
3 of last 4 opponents have no Specialty
1 of last 4 opponents is a Wrestler
Don't get me wrong.. Pettis has a great skillset and can beat Bendo.. but Bendo's clearly had the tougher path against fighters it's much harder to create highlight reel clips against.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Please do remember so I can see your salty posts.
Me and many others believed Bendo lost in the second Edgar fight and against Melendez
Jest Chillin
Member
Lots of people believe lots of things to varying degrees. The point of the list is to point out the difference in terms of quality opponents that each fighter has faced since people want to talk about Bendo being a point fighter.
The difference between a guy like Bendo and a guy like GSP is that even when GSP has his opponent completely outclassed, he stays playing the point game. Bendo looks for finishes when he can get them but he's faced a much higher class of opponent in what is easily the most talented division in the UFC.
Lambda Pie
Banned
it's what the judges think that matters. Punk beat Gil 3 times and only 1 win shows up on his record.
Imagine if it was this:
Wow! Worst main event since that terribad card Maynard headlined in South Florida. PEACE.
Lambda Pie
Banned
Terminator Grant would finish Benson in a heartbeat.
polyh3dron
Banned
Luckily "TJ Grant" bowed out due to an "injury".
and here we are with an epic rematch.
what are the odds.
Thank you, Uncle Dana.
Im' drunk as fuck right now, where's my nerd chat? lol
http://client00.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=#MMA-GAF
and here we are with an epic rematch.
what are the odds.
Thank you, Uncle Dana.
Im' drunk as fuck right now, where's my nerd chat? lol
http://client00.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=#MMA-GAF
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Well outside of whining on the internet, there's not a lot you can do about it.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Terminator Grant would finish Benson in a heartbeat.
Nope.
and no one in their right mind or anyone outside of North Cal thought Melendez won.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
GSP fights safe because he has too much to lose from breaking his concentration and going beast mode to finish a fight. But I get the impression that through his complete dominance in dictating the direction of his fights, he fights like he's reading a script. And if there were someone who could match him in athleticism, skill and willpower then this break in the "script" would totally fuck him up. There were moments like this in the Condit fight before he was able to re-establish his dominance.
Bendo on the other hand is a fighter that has a high skillset and in order to be seen as anything other than a point fighter would need an opponent who is willing to push him to his limits. Otherwise Bendo's just going to run you through and completely humiliate you. See Nate Diaz for more details.
Phat Michael
Banned
Mir/ Barnett fight going to be awesome. Really cant wait for this one. someone's getting choked or something's getting snapped off. I got barnett in this.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Mir's in one of his downward spirals. Not sure if this is just him being lazy or a sign of the times though.
I hope Barnett wins, just for the post-fight promo.
I figure if Barnett wins, he'll fight Travis Browne or Werdum for No. 1 Contender.
Maklershed
Member
A lot of solid, workman even odds matches on this card. On paper its looking like this night could be a decisionfest but all the fights should be pretty good.
Lambda Pie
Banned
TunaMarshmallow
Member
What in the name of hell are you talking about?
He's just come off of fights with two of the top-3 dudes in the division, both of whom are tailor made to absolutely murderize him. It's not a "downward spiral" unless it's the same "downward spiral" that Sonnen found himself in after losing to Anderson and Jones. C'mon.
Host Samurai
Member
If Barnett loses than I will cut my head off
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
His fight with Barnett will tell the story, bro.
Hopefully we get a motivated Frank Mir who proves my "spirals" wrong, but if he has another Marcio Cruz or Brandon Vera moment then it's probably the last time you'll see him in the top ten HW rankings.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
parrotbeak
Member
There's a UFC tonight?
TunaMarshmallow
Member
To be clear, he lost to Pé de Pano and Brandon Vera during his first six months back from a horrific motorcycling accident. Holding those losses against him is pretty weird, particularly given how much time we've seen between then and now.
Besides, what we're talking about now is -- to repeat -- losses to two of the top 3 HWs on the planet (and two guys who will probably eventually go down as all-time greats in the division). That's not a spiral; it's just Frank Mir being Frank Mir.
Here are two things we know about Frank Mir:
1. When he gets in near-death motorcycle accidents, he takes a while to recover!
2. He performs terribly against sharp strikers (e.g., JDS, arguably Vera) and dudes who can brutalize him with close-quarters shots against the cage or from top position (e.g., Carwin, Lesnar, Cormier).
Beyond that, he's had a very, very successful career. Thankfully for him, he's not coming off another motorcycle accident, so I'm not too worried about the first point. How about the second point? Well, is Bartnett a sharp striker? No, actually, his from-range offensive striking statistics are fucking atrocious. Is he a good positional grappler? Yes. But he does not do heavy damage from the clinch or from top control, which is Mir's poison. What he does tend to do is hold onto guys, pepper them with weak strikes, and look for submissions. But that's playing into Mir's game if anything is.
Now, of course, Barnett has an excellent submission game. And he may well be able to ride out a decision by holding Mir down or up against the cage. Barnett has options for a win. But I favor Mir here.
Jest Chillin
Member
GSP's script doesn't include being willing to finish a guy though. He's perfectly happy going to the cards even when he can sub a guy.
Bendo had 10 finishes in his first 13 fights. The decisions started with the loss to Pettis (which was everything BUT a point fight) but look at the guys he's faced since then. Miller's been finished once (zero times as of the Bendo fight), Bocek twice (none since 08), Edgar's never been finished, Diaz twice (only once at the time of the Bendo fight and that was in 06), and Melendez has never been finished. I mean.. I think he's had almost nothing but fighters who have pushed his limits but they've also been guys who are historically difficult to finish, Pettis included (never been finished).
Edit: To go along with the current Mir v. Barnett talk.. I got Mir by sub in Rnd 2 personally. But I do tend to go for the riskier choices. Trying to claw my way back to the top in the fantasy league, so it's live by the sword or die by it.
polyh3dron
Banned
Well I was in my right mind at the fight and thought Melendez won.
Talked to Faber at a nearby restaurant after the fights and he thought Gil won too but I guess he doesn't count because he's from Nor Cal.
I live in Canada doe.
Maklershed
Member
I think Mir has this tonight. He's been fighting (and yes, losing the past 2 .. but against Cormier and JDS? Cant really fault him for that) the top HW fighters in the world while Barnett has been crushing cans in the Iowa Corn Circuit and Japan.
polyh3dron
Banned
Styles make fights, Tim.
Mir is probably the easiest matchup for Barnett in the whole division. Catch Wrestling beats BJJ every time.
Mir is probably the easiest matchup for Barnett in the whole division. Catch Wrestling beats BJJ every time.
Host Samurai
Member
Mir crumbles vs wrestlers and power strikers.
polyh3dron
Banned
Has Barnett cut any good promos while doing press for this show?
polyh3dron
Banned
I was going through the record of Top 10 Flyweight "Tim Elliott" and found this interesting:
So yeah, he lost to this guy:
So yeah, he lost to this guy:
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
IMO Frank Mir is a hall of famer based on his service to the UFC alone. But even he admits that he's not lived up nearly enough to his potential. Just look at his recent wins: a purely instinctual submission of an aged Nog, a lazy sparring practice against Crocop, and a "borderline embarrassing" (Dana White's words) win against Nelson. He's never been the same guy since the motorcycle accident, and his motivation to succeed is pretty much gone.
I was going through the record of Top 10 Flyweight "Tim Elliott" and found this interesting:
So yeah, he lost to this guy:
Hey man ..that K K K combo did like 60%
Lambda Pie
Banned
i disagree. you event mention on your post: every guy Benson fought has been finished, bar Edgar.
he had multiple opens to finish Diaz and he didn't cause he was too scared to be caught in an unfavourable position
Diaz, a guy finished by Punk while Punk was making women noises.
speaking of Diaz, he subbed Miller, whom you incorrectly list has not being finished since the Benson fight (got finished by Pat Helium too but got overturned, right?).
dude could have his opponent stanky legged in front of him and i assure you he would jab jab low kick.
also, Jacky has no neutral KKK combo, closest he has is 4+KKKK.
Ninja Scooter
Member
So we're just going to act like all time top 3 heavyweight Frank Mir isn't on the card?
as for the main event, every time I envision a scenario where SHowtime can win, I think back to his match with Guida, and realize how easy it would be for Bendo to do that to him if he wanted to.
Jest Chillin
Member
You're misreading a lot of my post.
Melendez has never been finished either. All other fighters have been finished but all low numbers. And you can downplay Thomson's finish by talking about "women noises" all you want but that was still only the second time in Diaz career that he's ever been finished and the first time it was a TKO. Diaz is a tough kid with great BJJ. He's hard to finish. And yes, Miller was finished by Healy before Healy popped for weed. I legitimately forgot about that but I didn't say Miller hadn't been finished SINCE the Bendo fight.. I said "as of," which means up to the point that the Bendo fight happened, Miller had never been finished. In any case, taking Healy's sub of Miller into account that amounts to 6 times that Bendo's opponents have ever been finished all together. That's equal to the amount of times Lauzon alone has been finished.
And again, I point out that Bendo finished 10 of his first 13 fights ever, which was before his level of comp rose when he joined the UFC. The fact is Bendo's been tested with high quality opponents while most divisions either lack talent, lack depth, or are filled with past their prime fighters.
Lambda Pie
Banned
i wasn't downplaying Punk's win, i was mocking what Diaz said post-fight. and unless my English is failling me, i'm pretty sure "as of" and "since" are synonyms.
There's a big difference between how Henderson fought against Bocek, Miller and Guida vs how he paces himself in his UFC title fights. He's corny and plays it safe, but he's not even close to Tristar levels of sportkilling. GSP taking Condit down, watching the clock and not getting stood up because he's the superstar is by far the most shameful thing I've ever seen in MMA.
Jest Chillin
Member
It means both but depends on the context of the sentence. It was pretty commonly known at the time of the fight that Miller had never been finished up to that point. It was one of Goldie's go to evaluation statements.
dream
Member
I'm baffled by Frank being the dog too.
His biggest weakness is that he has a tendency to relax in bad positions, showing no sense of urgency when he's taking shots until he inevitably loses consciousness. But Joshu doesn't have the power to take Frank out, and I think Frank is just slightly better everywhere.
His biggest weakness is that he has a tendency to relax in bad positions, showing no sense of urgency when he's taking shots until he inevitably loses consciousness. But Joshu doesn't have the power to take Frank out, and I think Frank is just slightly better everywhere.
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