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UFOs Discussion |UFOT| Deep down, you knew it was all true.
- Thread starter Meus Renaissance
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User Name Here
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It's an interesting possibility if you ask me.
What if that's actually what happened? And that many factions ended up being involved -- with one or more having to interfere indirectly with our development due to actions of the others. Possibly because they didn't want to further disrupt our development. Maybe in some extreme cases the group(s) with good intentions would have no choice but to directly interfere; like when they have to disable a powerful weapon. I suppose the stories about nukes getting disabled before they can reach space would be an example, if this were the case.
With some of the events I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Especially with them supposedly preventing us from launching nukes into space, as I mentioned. Which kind of ties into akira28's point about them possibly believing us to be a threat to ourselves or other civilizations.
But that is with the assumption they behave and think like us. With many of the strange coincidences I've noticed over the last 10 months or so, I would say they could simply have us kill ourselves via mass suicides, then take what they wanted or needed and be on their way. Or pit different factions of humans vs the other and when we've decimated ourselves, do what they need to....
Uhhh.. lol
http://ufosontherecord.com/leslie-kean/
Check out her book if you haven't already. I'm almost done with it, and I can say it is a pretty interesting read.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I remember hearing recently about the triangular craft, popularized by the so-called "Belgium sightings" were reported as early as the late 1800's. Mysterious aerial objects have been reported throughout history. I also don't understand why people keep saying these craft couldn't reach here from other star systems because nothing can go faster than light, etc. There's technology that could possibly allow these craft to travel any distance in no matter of time, like space folding or wormholes.
That's what I was saying actually.
"Godlike" aliens, we're cool. Human-like aliens... yes if they're at all like us but just more advanced, we're fucked, because we'd both be in the competition for survival game. They would always need something, because life at this level requires sacrifices. Travel is expensive, maintaining stable habitats is costly(unless you have a planet). Resources, if the land is livable. We could present a direct threat to them in the relatively near future if we ever did advance enough to become spacefaring. Though more advanced, there would still be human innovations that could prove useful to them. They would have to be extremely altruistic not to use their leverage, and they'd have to be sufficiently advanced to see another race as precious, but not as a possible resource.
I guess bottom line is it's not exactly a race to the top. The possibilities for either contacting us are there, but one is less likely to contact us because of our current level of civilization, and the other is less likely to contact us because it would be difficult to find us and even get here... But if they did, there would be no innocence involved.
kn0wsk1lls
Member
nice a ufo thread. im subscribed to this channel on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAFOFiles?feature=watch
Today show reporting on the government's acknowledgement that Area 51 exists. I never thought it was a question of whether or not Area 51 exists, there are too many videos of people trying to walk up to it just to be turned away by MP. What people want to know is what is inside area 51 and/or the surrounding bases.
Various Artists
Banned
It's very obviously just an airbase testing experimental aircraft. People just don't like that answer.
Basically the big deal is that the military is admitting that there is a base there, which no one is surprised about. I don't think the military would disclose fully what they have and are doing there, whatever it is. It's just not the military's nature to disclose what they are doing, whether it be stacking blocks or testing weapons.
People generally don't trust the government, so i'm not surprised they don't like the answer.
What's Area 51 and how did we not know about this!?
http://now.msn.com/area-51-real-after-all-according-to-cia-documents?ocid=ansnowex
http://now.msn.com/area-51-real-after-all-according-to-cia-documents?ocid=ansnowex
the rumor was that whatever controversial stuff was once held there has been moved long ago, and they've just been testing forward generation aircraft and drones.
I mean, you can't keep secret secrets on a secret base that the whole world knows about, can you?
They can and they do keep their secrets. It's restricted ground and air space miles away from the base in a deserted area. The military will easily track you coming from a long distance and warn you to turn back before sending fighter jets to force you away. Over the years, a number of people have been escorted out via air, turned away by intercepting ground patrols, or in the case of planes in distress - allowed to land at an airstrip, given fuel or repairs, interrogated and then sent on their away. The interrogated include fellow military that have no business at Area 51.
Stuggernaut
Grandma's Chippy
When I was a kid me and a friend saw "something" that made us both say "WTF was that??" ....
Standard hover, round, fly away really fast type stuff. We both agreed that it was not worth sharing lol.
30+ years later I still have no clue what we saw but I remember it vividly.
Standard hover, round, fly away really fast type stuff. We both agreed that it was not worth sharing lol.
30+ years later I still have no clue what we saw but I remember it vividly.
I have one of these stories haha. Never did know what the heck I saw...
You guys care to share in detail? I like reading first hand accounts. I'm still waiting for the planes to fly over head, I heard some first thing this morning, but I wasn't going to rush out. When they do fly over my house, it's usually every plane landing for hours, not the case today.
While on a family trip, we were driving through some mountains when all of a sudden I see a white light in the sky kind of to the left and back of our car. I was probably around 10 years old when this happened. The light seemed to be following the same path we were in. I remember having to press up against the left and right passenger side window because it would move left and right of our car (this could have been because of the winding road now that I think about it). I asked my dad to look at the light but he was driving so it was impossible for him to look, it would be too dangerous because of the road we were in. It eventually sped off to the right and away from the direction we were heading. It looked like it was following the curvature of the mountain before going in the opposite direction.
Bluemercury
Member
Care to back that up?
So I got a photo of a plane from my front porch. I almost missed it, and I did miss the best angle to show some reference to how low the plan is.In the photo, the plane looks way higher up than it does when its first coming in. I plan to take a better pic with some reference point, like trees and stuff. I will also take a pic of a plane that is much higher up than this plane with the same phone, it's an iPhone 5.
Quoted for size
Quoted for size
Meus Renaissance
Member
Jesse Marcel Jr has passed away at the age of 76
Jesse Marcel Jr has passed away at the age of 76
Wow... Is he the last KNOWN person to have seen the debris?
Yes he saw the tin foil from the Project Mogul balloon.
teruterubozu
Member
Jesse Marcel Jr has passed away at the age of 76
Aren't those two different people in those pictures? Jesse Jr. was a 9 year old (such memories!).
maquiladora
Member
Yes. That's a picture of his dad with the "crash debris"
Meus Renaissance
Member
To our knowledge, yes. Another died a few years ago who claimed he was part of the salvage operation. We're at a point now where Jesse Marcel is a great, great grandfather
That's a picture of his dad, Major Jesse Marcel, with the crap he swears replaced the actual crash debris. He swore for decades that there was lots of metallic debris with strange properties found and collected by the large military presence. He left the room and returned later to find the sizable pile of debris replaced by a much smaller amount of flimsy foil and weather balloon material.
I always thought Roswell was one of the lamer UFO stories and never understood why it went mainstream out of all the known accounts. Upon reading more about it and the people involved behind the scenes, it actually is an amazing case. If anyone is interested, this book I've been reading (link below) has a very detailed account of what supposedly happened. The weather balloon excuse makes no sense given the intense military attention given to it at the time -- in contrast to the total lack of interest to similar balloons that crashed and were casually found and personally returned by civilians.
UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Coverup, 1941-1973
www.amazon.com/UFOs-National-Security-State-Chronology-ebook/dp/B00CUU7PUG/
All the books from Jacques Vallee are really good and entertaining. Most are old but the last one came out in 2011.
Thought I would post this here for anyone interested. I also posted it in the "Speaking Aliens" thread, but that's mostly a joke thread. I've read about some of the cases associated with these illustrations. Several involve multiple, lengthy witness interrogations by Air Force, CIA, etc., with the witnesses described credible, reliable and consistent, and backed up by the presence of disturbed scenery, high radiation levels, circular depressions on the ground where witnesses claim the UFO rested on "legs," and burn marks from landing/takeoff. Some of these are still labeled as unknown and unsolved.
Artist sketches of "UFO occupants" that witnesses claim they saw near landed UFOs. Below that is the corresponding list of where the sightings took place; useful for looking up detailed accounts of each incident on the web. Source: http://www.ovni-france.fr/index.php?ou=articles&id_article=63&id=27
And another set, some repeating from the above image:
Artist sketches of "UFO occupants" that witnesses claim they saw near landed UFOs. Below that is the corresponding list of where the sightings took place; useful for looking up detailed accounts of each incident on the web. Source: http://www.ovni-france.fr/index.php?ou=articles&id_article=63&id=27
And another set, some repeating from the above image:
SniperHunter
Banned
With the advent of hd cameras and built in cameras in phones, the reports of ufos have died down. It would be impossible to fake footage and get away with it now.
After reading a few books and thinking about it. I find it very hard to believe anymore...all fake imo
After reading a few books and thinking about it. I find it very hard to believe anymore...all fake imo
This seems to be true, You would think with everyone having there own portable video and camera these days. The sightings would have gone up, and not down. I guess another reason could be the Aliens have wised up and are hiding themselves better.
and for a more skeptical approach, give this a quick read or listen:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4079
SniperHunter
Banned
i was about to type the exact same thing
Similar to the prime directive in the star trek fiction.
There are bunch of points to consider (from the books etc i have read)
Distance between planets is too vast
it is probably easy to find planets with life - even nasa has found many life sustainig planets already
Resources are easy to find through empty planets
The only reason why someone would come to earth is to study the life here and not for resources
I hope one day our telescopes get powerful enough to find massive ships or a sign of advance life. Older civilizations must have a a grand sign somewhere in the universe.
For whatever reason, UFOs have appeared in large waves in various parts of the world. For example: one happened in around 1948, another in 1952, and another around 1966. If you think of UFOs as scientists on expeditions to study Earth and humanity (as many believe, e.g. they're not invaders bent on conquest), this makes sense. They come, they study, they leave. That aside, UFO reports actually do continue at a steady stream with each passing month/year.
I've also said this half a dozen times, but the advent of digital cameras and camera phones doesn't mean much. These devices have terrible quality compared to many old film cameras, typically little or no zoom capability, and operate dreadfully in non-ideal conditions (moving objects, low light, nighttime, etc.). I have taken shots of a large blimp with my Galaxy S3 in clear daylight that looked like a meaningless spec (even though my eyes saw it much larger), and clear nighttime shots of fireworks that showed up as nothing in the final images. Photography is a part of my career field; some of you seem unaware of how terrible consumer hardware is for practical use "in the field."
Finally worth mentioning that many of the best UFO cases did not have any associated photography. Main factors were: multiple witnesses, consistency of events and intelligence/credibility of individuals, eye-visual and radar sightings, and effects on environment (landing gear marks, radiation, burn patterns, etc.).
I've also said this half a dozen times, but the advent of digital cameras and camera phones doesn't mean much. These devices have terrible quality compared to many old film cameras, typically little or no zoom capability, and operate dreadfully in non-ideal conditions (moving objects, low light, nighttime, etc.). I have taken shots of a large blimp with my Galaxy S3 in clear daylight that looked like a meaningless spec (even though my eyes saw it much larger), and clear nighttime shots of fireworks that showed up as nothing in the final images. Photography is a part of my career field; some of you seem unaware of how terrible consumer hardware is for practical use "in the field."
Finally worth mentioning that many of the best UFO cases did not have any associated photography. Main factors were: multiple witnesses, consistency of events and intelligence/credibility of individuals, eye-visual and radar sightings, and effects on environment (landing gear marks, radiation, burn patterns, etc.).
Is this supposed to disprove every UFO case in history?
Second, I've read this already. Project Mogul was not what crashed in Roswell. The dates of Mogul balloons or other balloons of any kind don't match up to the events of the Roswell incident and none were in the area for hundreds of miles. Witnesses state that the crashed debris was quite massive and not the few pounds of aluminum that skeptics associate with the event. There was also a heavy, armed military presence; heavy security that cordoned off a very large area. In contrast, military/scientific balloons lost weeks before and weeks after Roswell were personally retrieved by civilians and casually returned without so much as a bit of interest by anyone.
Major Marcel insists til his death that he saw and had some of the original debris with strange physical properties, and that while he had it in his possession it was switched out for the flimsy bits of balloon aluminum when he left the room/area where he was keeping it (he didn't know who did it). Other people saw the original crashed object and the widely scattered debris and also say it was no balloon. His son kept a small piece and years later was showing it to some locals when military officers paid him a visit and demanded he give it over.
I wish I could post the full account of what first-hand witnesses say transpired at Roswell, but pulling large quotes from Kindle is annoying. That skeptoid article just basically accepts as fact the dismissive explanation put out several decades later. It ranks as poor as the original "swamp gas" excuse from a mid-60s UFO case.
SniperHunter
Banned
What is stopping them from making contact?
If they detected life from their homeworld, Why do they come into our atmosphere? Why cant they send stealth uavs for spying? If they have the ability to travel vast distances, surely they must have uavs or small robots for spying...
I dont get it...why would they travel all this way to crash in a corn field or fuck with our pilots???
If they detected life from their homeworld, Why do they come into our atmosphere? Why cant they send stealth uavs for spying? If they have the ability to travel vast distances, surely they must have uavs or small robots for spying...
I dont get it...why would they travel all this way to crash in a corn field or fuck with our pilots???
Not at all, but it should be known that there is no evidence for anything extra ordinary happening at Roswell.
Witness accounts are useless, and Marcel's stories just make me roll my eyes. It's awfully convenient they swapped the debris and then confiscated some later...
I used to have huge interest in UFO reports (I still do actually) but as I got older I've realized there just isn't even a bit of evidence for anything other than mis-identifications and complete BS.
The Phoenix Lights was one I was obsessed with for a bit, but turns out it can be explained quite rationally with evidence backing those explanations up. I'm referring to the earlier sightings and not the flare dump.
Nothing is stopping them. They likely just don't want to. Physicist James McDoland said extraterrestrials were real after conducting his own research and field studies across several continents, and that it was his belief the aliens were studying humanity with a loosely hands-off approach. Meaning, they weren't landing in the middle of Times Square and asking for permission. They just do it at leisure, coming and going as they please, monitoring Air Force bases, planes, naval ships and submarines (many UFOs have been spotted near or below the water), hovering over nuclear power plants, silos, etc.
That, he said, was the most likely reason for the deep secrecy among certain military and intelligence circles; that no one has control over what happens over our airspace and extraterrestrials' activities. This makes sense to me -- a big fuss is made about a foreign nation's plane coming within hundreds of miles of X border/base/ship, so it kinda destroys that culture of security and trust in our governments and leaders when these unknown beings go wherever they want, do whatever they want, and we have no say or manner of stopping them.
It seems like you've done very little reading on the topic to be so easily dissuaded.
SniperHunter
Banned
You are right i have done very little reading. I know aliens are out there, but to me it just seems stupid, coming all this way in advance vehicles only to crash or be captured on film or be seen by humans. Why not send uavs? They must be champions of thechnology.
What would happen if they crashed their craft in Pakistan? They cant be that stupid right?
I meant ced, although most people have read little about this in general.
I don't think crashing in Pakistan matters any more than crashing in Nebraska. As I said before, no one believes that aliens aren't actively trying to hide. Taking a picture of their ship doesn't do them any harm, since they still accomplish whatever surveillance and leave without a problem.
During some years, the accumulated UFO reports number in the hundreds or thousands. The known/suspected UFO crashes are very, very few. Some believe that extraterrestrials do have probes; one of the cases highlighted in Leslie Kean's book was the sighting of a metallic object hovering in a backyard. It was only a couple of feet wide and took off rapidly after a short time. Scientists investigated and found high levels of radiation and dying plants/grass on the spot.
UFOs have also been seen in person and on military and commercial radar, as well as civilian video, splitting up and recombining in the skies. Possibly launched probes or some other technology we don't know.
SniperHunter
Banned
You mentioned something about ufos near the water. Can you be more specific? Can you recommend some really good books?
I think crashing is a big deal. They would be basically handing out their advance tech to us..and that is big for a few reasons
I think crashing is a big deal. They would be basically handing out their advance tech to us..and that is big for a few reasons
Harry Dresden
Member
Given all the physical descriptions of your typical 'Grey' I think I could take one in a fight. Bash that big shiny skull right in with a rock and see how 'advanced' they are.
FTL Travel or not, a heavy object smashing into something is still a heavy object smashing into something.
FTL Travel or not, a heavy object smashing into something is still a heavy object smashing into something.
Sure. See books below. Numerous reports detail UFOs hovering at sea level, diving into the water, or shooting out of the water. Witnesses also reported frothing, bubbling water, churning sounds, and glowing areas before the objects rose up from undersea. Sightings involved ship captains and crews.
UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record
www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials-ebook/dp/B0036S4C66/
This one mostly focuses on a handful of cases, mostly involving ranking military -- and mostly foreign since US officers are uncooperative -- mixed with the analysis and opinions of scientists. The author chooses not to go down the path of claiming UFOs are of alien origin. Instead she argues that, whatever they may be, they are real physical objects that have posed a risk to air traffic due to collisions or near collisions, and that ultimately there needs to be serious and ongoing study by a Congress-appointed panel of experts to figure out all of this.
UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Coverup, 1941-1973
www.amazon.com/UFOs-National-Security-State-Chronology-ebook/dp/B00CUU7PUG/
This is a history of UFOs which I'm almost done reading it (book 1 for the 2014 book/movie thread!). There's a follow-up book chronicling the 70s to 90s. Very detailed: names, dates, declassified memos, what was happening behind the scenes with certain studiesetc. The amount of verifiable and intense interest among the various military/intelligence branches, and the in-fighting on how to handle the "problem," definitely points to UFOs being a real thing. It exposes, with written documentation, how Project Blue Book and the University of Colorado's Condon UFO Project (sponsored by the Air Force) as complete shams -- ignoring all semblance of scientific objectivity and field research with strict orders that the only conclusion must be that UFOs are nothing.
People who claim to have approached "UFO occupants" say they've been paralyzed in place -- either by no discernible manner that they could see or by the humanoid holding a small object, before they got back in their craft and took off. In abduction cases, people have said the aliens either "persuaded" them to simple go along, made them weak and unable to resist, made them lose consciousness, or were unusually strong and used force (imagine a toddler trying to resist a grown man pulling him along).
UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go On the Record
www.amazon.com/UFOs-Generals-Pilots-Government-Officials-ebook/dp/B0036S4C66/
This one mostly focuses on a handful of cases, mostly involving ranking military -- and mostly foreign since US officers are uncooperative -- mixed with the analysis and opinions of scientists. The author chooses not to go down the path of claiming UFOs are of alien origin. Instead she argues that, whatever they may be, they are real physical objects that have posed a risk to air traffic due to collisions or near collisions, and that ultimately there needs to be serious and ongoing study by a Congress-appointed panel of experts to figure out all of this.
UFOs and the National Security State: Chronology of a Coverup, 1941-1973
www.amazon.com/UFOs-National-Security-State-Chronology-ebook/dp/B00CUU7PUG/
This is a history of UFOs which I'm almost done reading it (book 1 for the 2014 book/movie thread!). There's a follow-up book chronicling the 70s to 90s. Very detailed: names, dates, declassified memos, what was happening behind the scenes with certain studiesetc. The amount of verifiable and intense interest among the various military/intelligence branches, and the in-fighting on how to handle the "problem," definitely points to UFOs being a real thing. It exposes, with written documentation, how Project Blue Book and the University of Colorado's Condon UFO Project (sponsored by the Air Force) as complete shams -- ignoring all semblance of scientific objectivity and field research with strict orders that the only conclusion must be that UFOs are nothing.
People who claim to have approached "UFO occupants" say they've been paralyzed in place -- either by no discernible manner that they could see or by the humanoid holding a small object, before they got back in their craft and took off. In abduction cases, people have said the aliens either "persuaded" them to simple go along, made them weak and unable to resist, made them lose consciousness, or were unusually strong and used force (imagine a toddler trying to resist a grown man pulling him along).
SniperHunter
Banned
I remember there was a case in Canada when a ufo went underwater and left a yellow foam behind. I should go read up on it
User Name Here
Member
That reminds me of a book I'm reading called Passport-To-Magonia, that mentions reports made back in the 1400's or earlier. Back then, one person studying the phenomenon thought the beings they saw were of some species that were between Angels and Humans. I'm now wondering what people saw in the distant past that would make them believe Angels were real, and if it relates to the same beings. That's all assuming the author is telling the truth, of course.
I'm also now thinking that the presence that seems to be here, is capable of using some kind of advance form of Holography or outright matter manipulation/creation -- that is somehow partly based off of your perception. So if you're a hunter and you vaguely see some kind of anomalous object -- that you think might be a wolf -- the object would change its properties to present you with what you think it is. I think that might help explain some of the stuff people (supposedly) saw on the SkinWalker ranch in Utah. And I think the presence that is presumably there, is somehow related to all the other crazy shit people saw or see.
SniperHunter
Banned
I just read about this in Richard Doland's book. According to people who were there, a flotilla of US Navy and Royal Canadian Navy ships were directly over the UFO that crashed into the ocean. After some time, a second UFO appeared underwater and seemed to be "repairing" the first one. This went on for days with the military ships observing the entire time. In the end, both ships swiftly rose up from the sea and departed through the skies. A Soviet submarine appeared at one point during all of this, possibly to investigate, and was escorted away. The Wiki article is wrong that all the Navy ships left to intercept the submarine.
SniperHunter
Banned
don't forget the bloop incident!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop
thanks for the recommendations, I will look into it
edit - ignore the bloop incident. looks like they updated the info, just iceberg collapsing or something
ErasureAcer
Banned
Watching the Hellyer interview. Dude is pretty vague and he just spoke of the Prime Directive....lol. 3-5 emails a week. Whoa buddy...don't hurt your fingers.
Link to the interview? Seems a little nutty.
"Prime Directive" stuff just makes no sense. Nothing about hundreds of UFO sightings matches Trek's Star Fleet behavior. Some of the best documented cases have UFOs interfering with nuclear sites and hanging out over airports and highly visible, public spaces.
"Prime Directive" stuff just makes no sense. Nothing about hundreds of UFO sightings matches Trek's Star Fleet behavior. Some of the best documented cases have UFOs interfering with nuclear sites and hanging out over airports and highly visible, public spaces.
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