A logical article but this conceit in it
Technically could you not argue this also applies to the 52%?
If the 48% don't exist, then the 52% don't exist...so who the hell's driving the bus?
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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A logical article but this conceit in it
Technically could you not argue this also applies to the 52%?
If the 48% don't exist, then the 52% don't exist...so who the hell's driving the bus?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Yes, and as snide as it was, it was still saner than the 'infinite money' Labour pledges because it was one of them nefarious "free thing" policies. If they could jedi mind trick the populace into all becoming unpaid volunteers under the guise of patriotism then hurrah for austerity. Even just one newly setup community project and they could point "look, the Big Society happened!".
The role of opposition is to present an electable alternative based in reality. Not start drinking bowls of sugar all weekend and scrawl up some "HERES A SOCIALIST WONDERLAND, I'M SURE ITS FEASIBLE?" document.
I take it you're living in the south at the moment then? Housing even just in the north of England is pretty cheap (and ludicrously so compared to say London) - I live in Lancashire and you can rent a decent house for under £500 a month. Shared is obviously much more affordable and it's even cheaper if you go further north, i.e. Northumbria. Saying that my friend recently moved to Stirling and that's even better.
A friend of mine works as a sound technician in the local college, and they're doing a promotion for bands wanting to use recording facilities where they get a decent discount if they produce their polling card. Thought that was a nice touch.
It's a shame a cannabis tax is merely present on the Lib Dems manifesto and not on all of them. Fantastic way to earn money for the country, make weed for many much safer and ease up court and policing costs and prison populations. It's a fucking no brainer but considering most of our ruling elite and media are rooted in blind conservatism it's probably never going to happen. It's amazing that even the US is more progressive than us on fucking drugs.
Indeed. It's a totally pointless statement to make. Of course a coalition of voters from across the spectrum aren't a massive voting bloc. It doesn't help that there is no viable way to stop Brexit. Article 50 has been triggered. The Conservatives and Labour are both moving towards Hard Brexit. The Liberal Democrats are completely destroyed by the nature of FPTP.
Ultimately, the Brexit question has been resolved, largely due to the democratic referendum that was held and somewhat due to Labour's total capitulation. So Remain voters broadly speaking are voting for the same party they used to. The Liberal Democrats have probably gained a small amount out of their gambit, but the coincidence between people who care deeply about Remain and people who will vote for a party that can't win to try and stop it is pretty slim.
I do actually think there are a fairly significant number of Conservative voters who are somewhat horrified by what has happened since last June, but they are more than made up for by the return of UKIP voters to the Conservatives.
Spuck-uk
Banned
It moves that seat further to the right, moving them closer to the conservatives, or indeed, another Con/Lib partnership.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I'm going to be carrying around my polling card for the next three weeks for just this reason. Spotted a few places in Bristol with a polling card discount.
Absolutely.
Both sides are doing to have different sub groups who wanted different things from the referendum. Painting it as fractured groups within the 48% vs one unified block of 52% who love everything about a hard Brexit is pretty disingenuous
Yep, it not about stopping things anymore, its about making the best reality of the situation after it happens. Labour and the Conservatives are polling at ~80% of votes at the moment. That doesn't mean suddenly nearly 30% of people have switched from remain to hard leave, it just reflects the reality of our political system after the referendum
That's ace! I've always said if I moved south it'd be Bristol xD I wish it happened generally here, but even if it's just schemes to help coerce the young to vote I'm happy.
It wasn't even that long ago the vision of the UK in the Labour manifesto was near enough a reality. How far we've fallen.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Ruled out, as well you know. Farron's hair would set on fire before entering coalition with a party that ended the Dubs scheme.
I do agree that Brexit is a bit inevitable. We could change our minds and work with the EU to ignore starting negotiations but it would require a mandate, and only the Lib Dems could provide that mandate, and too many people are of the mood that "I'd rather give up than fight on."
But the thing is: once we leave, the Lib Dems will be the group passionately arguing to rejoin. We're not going to give up on this until we do. The old Liberal Party was pro joining, and so we will be.
Other reason to vote Lib Dem:
1. More short money
2. More media exposure - the BBC uses past performance as a weight for future exposure!
3. Support of policies that will one day make it into the statute books, if they are proven to be popular enough.
And in a target seat you have a real ability to change the makeup of the next parliament - so it's up to you to weigh up your current MP against a Lib Dem (or Green, or SNP, or Labour or the Tories etc etc etc) and make your democratic choice.
travisbickle
Member
The "Big Society" was supposed to be the largest transferal of power from Westminster to the people. It was supposed to give local councils more money and power to do their own thing. It was bullshit and everyone knew it, constantly asking how it will be funded. The idea that it would all be done for free was a cynical response to it, not what the Tories sold.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...5/David-Cameron-launches-his-Big-Society.html
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I must have missed this one from last week.
I just want to crawl into the Earth's crust and emerge like a volcano blast post June 8th.
I just want to crawl into the Earth's crust and emerge like a volcano blast post June 8th.
Looks like Boris has been doing his thing again
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gises-after-discussing-alcohol-in-sikh-temple
Looks like he was visiting a Sikh temple and took the chance to start telling them about how they can buy Scottish whiskey soon, despite the fact that Sikhs don't drink alcohol...
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...gises-after-discussing-alcohol-in-sikh-temple
Looks like he was visiting a Sikh temple and took the chance to start telling them about how they can buy Scottish whiskey soon, despite the fact that Sikhs don't drink alcohol...
Obviously the picture is worth seeing as well
PJV3
Member
I must have missed this one from last week.
I just want to crawl into the Earth's crust and emerge like a volcano blast post June 8th.
It's a sensible policy considering the link between obesity and health issues like dementia and diabetes.
It's not a huge vote winner but unless you work in an ad agency or commercial kids TV it's not a bad thing either.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Remember a little bit ago that the Tories denied that Boris has been sidelined this campaign?
Other than this visit to a Sikh temple, what's he been up to?
QuicheFontaine
Member
Very liveable city! Would recommend.
I expect one of our resident Scotch posters to pick you up on this any minute...
Huw_Dawson
Member
If Boris had been a Remainer I'd still like him.
Much like many Labour MPs, he did an act that I cannot forgive him for.
Much like many Labour MPs, he did an act that I cannot forgive him for.
PJV3
Member
Being pro Brexit is at the bottom of the list of problems I have with the lying, corrupt wanker.
This is totally a good thing (banning the ads)
I'm not too familiar with Boris' corruptness besides that fucking stupid garden bridge, planning to have a journalist beat up, suggestions of giving sweetheart deals to property developer mates as Mayor of London, etc, but I'd love to read more about it.
Really?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Just as an entertaining buffoon on TV. Spaghetti above puts out some of the many reasons he's a git as a politician.
I expect one of our resident Scotch posters to pick you up on this any minute...
Scotch or Scottish?
Much like how young/left wing people see the Lib Dems
WorldofMiku
Banned
I must have missed this one from last week.
I just want to crawl into the Earth's crust and emerge like a volcano blast post June 8th.
...don't see a problem with this? Do you like watching junk food ads or something?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yup - this is why it's important we put out a good manifesto and then campaign strongly on important issues for the next few years. We can't regain trust quickly, but we can work to regain it. And in the target seats we fight very hard for MPs that will help us regain that trust.
The IFS have put out a comparison between Labour and LD income tax/benefit policies.
https://election2017.ifs.org.uk/art...its-the-liberal-democrats-and-labour-compared
The short of it is that the IFS is confident that the LD's policy would add up, but they're much less confident about Labour's as there's more ability to dodge income tax amongst the people they want to squeeze. But the LD policy would affect 55% of adults, whereas Labour's would only affect the top 5%.
Scotch or Scottish?
Much like how young/left wing people see the Lib Dems
Never underestimate the ability of young people to bite off their nose to spite their face.
jimbobsmells
Member
That should be enough tbh, but then again Trump has set a new standard.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Scotch or Scottish?
It's a force of habit from too much Stewart Lee, but funnily enough both would work here
The Lib Dems have zero credibility. Their headline policy in 2010 was No Increase in tuition fees, then they went and trebled fees anyway. Their other headline policy was voting reform which they allowed the Tories to sink.
Why would anyone trust the Lib Dems to do what they say in a manifesto?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Good point - hence why restoring trust is very important. We'll be campaigning on young people's behalf in parliament and elsewhere over the next five years no-matter what result we ultimately get. But don't forget that we did deliver parts of our 2010 manifesto in government, such as the Pupil Premium and the Personal Income Tax Allowance.
As we've ruled out coalitions this time, it's either our complete manifesto - which is not likely as May is going to get a thumping majority - or none of it. No horse trading and compromises like 2010.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
And their other other headline policy was to hugely increase the personal tax allowance so taking masses of people out of income tax altogether. Which they got done, which was effective, which beat the shit out of Labour's stupid bodged fiddle-faddling around the 10p band. And that despite being the junior partner in a coalition.
Of course, nobody seems to remember that one, but LibDems deserve all the credit for it.
Spuck-uk
Banned
He was a remainer, until he thought he could get more political capital from not being.
He's a fucking idiot, and people that think he's a 'legernd' are doubly fucking idiots.
Spuck-uk
Banned
The IFS don't want high earners taxed more, but instead favour regressive taxation that hits low earners worse*.
Colour me shocked.
*yes, it does, the less money you have the more every % hurts you.
Huw_Dawson
Member
It is important to bear in mind that some of the lower-income families who would lose from the Liberal Democrats income tax rise would gain substantially from the benefit changes the Liberal Democrats propose, discussed below.
Theonik
Member
Also ~half their MPs did not vote for the fee increase. There is little they could have done as a junior member in the coalition and they did neuter the original fee increase bill the Tories had planned.
Spuck-uk
Banned
That doesn't change anything about what I stated.
Spuck-uk
Banned
So half their members DID vote for it, or just abstained?
Theonik
Member
Corbyn's idea is to blacklist the ones who don't from government contracts.
I am not sure how it would be enforced though.
Edit:
For LibDems it was:
28 For, 21 Against, 8 Abstain.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Ideally, gulags.
I'd settle for the police though.
This idea that rich people are untaxable and therefore we shouldn't try to tax them is exactly the same kind of crap excuse the US Democrats use for not trying to fix income inequality.
Also, if the rich aren't going to pay the higher taxes anyway, what's the harm in putting them up? It's just bollocks spread by high earners who know they could do dodgy accounting but also know they wont when it comes to it because they're just as averse to going to prison as the rest of us.
In regards to the voting reform issue, you ought to remember that the Liberal Democrats had less than 10% of the seats at the time. They tried to give us an improved voting system, a compromise between what we have and what they wanted, and they failed. It was a pity, but hardly some cynical move by them.
As for the tuition fees issue, I think you may be guilty of reading a lot into the headline without really considering the detail. Yes, someone who goes to university now will indeed have a greater debt than someone who went to university prior to 2012. However, the new student loan is written off after thirty years and you the threshold beyond which you pay is greater, despite tuition fees being much higher. A significant number of people will pay less under the new system than they would under the old. Even those who will eventually pay more will initially pay less. I would be significantly better off (right now) if I had a new style loan. There are some major issues with the new student loan, but it is in many, many respects much more progressive than the old one.
I think student loans as a whole stink, and I think they should be scrapped. Yet being angry at the Liberal Democrats from being part of one pretty shit system evolving into another pretty shit system? It's just pointless.
Because frankly, this is politics, and if young people want to get anywhere, they need to stop waiting for perfection. The left desiring a messiah is the kind of shit that leads Donald Trump to being President of the United States. I'm not sure if you've realised, but the left is getting slaughtered. It's time to take some clues from the Conservatives and their voters and be little more pragmatic and a little less ideological.
This is bulllshit of another level entirely.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I mean, you did just say that the IFS doesn't want high income people paying more when the IFS's point was that higher income people are going to be able to dodge taxes better, not that the rich paying tax was a bad thing.
I just fancied throwing in how the LDs would unfreeze benefits, which Labour are not going to do. I thought you might like to know.
And if you work in the public sector, I understand you're probably fucked cos you've effectively had pay cuts for years.
Possumowner
Member
I must have missed this one from last week.
I just want to crawl into the Earth's crust and emerge like a volcano blast post June 8th.
That's a positive thing surely
Urgh, this kind of response is so fucking sly. I just heard on the radio that the average wage increase this year was 2.1%, which is below the cost of living increase this year. So if this nurse is struggling already, how exactly does any of that help? These cunts don't give a flying fuck about ordinary, working people. The fact that their bullshit is working on the working classes is sickening.
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