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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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E

Empty

Member
Theonik said:
Which is still massively better than what they were initially predicted to get!
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yep! labour have run a great campaign.

as for the tories, for once in my life i agree with george osborne

DBE66JyXYAAN9dE.jpg
 
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mo60

Member
I never seen an early election call backfire this hard. It would be amazing if the UK tories ended up with a minority government.And I wouldn't assume that this poor poll will help the UK tories at this point.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Theonik said:
The pessimist in me can't help but think these kinds of polls are in part trying to set the narrative that the Conservatives need people to vote and that the Coalition of Chaos is coming or other such nonsense. It might hurt labour if anything.
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"Shy Tories". The UK isn't escaping this reluctance to hold the Conservative Party to account any time soon. For goodness knows how many years to come no matter what they continue to do they'll have the "they gave us Brexit!" lovers. Not to mention no matter what happens across the country so many Brits are just hardwired to blame everything that goes wrong on those below them on the food chain. So many in this country are terribly uncaring, cold and selfish minded people.

Considering changing the minds of enough people seems like it will take a huge chunk of my life time it's one large reason I support leaving the Union and having much more say over what goes on in Scotland without having to be at the mercy of vast numbers of Tory Britain. Not to mention I do genuinely believe there is enough value to try and stay in the EU and engage in discussions about how it has to operate, at least more so than this shotgun approach to Brexit. You cannot say Scotland hasn't tried for a long time now to engage with the rUK and get the UK shifting more progressively. We have been making noise, reforming our political landscape and in some areas trying to lead by example. Which is what is rather depressing in a Union where the fact we're a small country can mean having to wait for the big brother to play catch up. Brexit was the ultimate show IMO the big brother ain't playing catch up any time soon.
 
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Huw_Dawson

Member
mo60 said:
I never seen an early election call backfire this hard. It would be amazing if the UK tories ended up with a minority government.
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This is a re-run of 1974. Except instead of dastardly trade unions, it was the Lib Dems wanting a second referendum.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
mo60 said:
I never seen an early election call backfire this hard. It would be amazing if the UK tories ended up with a minority government.And I wouldn't assume that this poor poll will help the UK tories at this point.
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I am going to thank Mrs May for a few weeks of slightly less bleak politics, I'm glad she bolted early.
 
M

mo60

Member
Guerrillas in the Mist said:
A party losing seats in an election they called without an external push factor (eg. minority government collapsing) would be historically unprecedented, right?
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In the UK probably, but I watched provincial and federal elections in Canada were the governing party called an early election and experienced massive seat losses on election day.In one of this elections the governing party lost like 85% of their seats.
 
O

Orbis

Member
Thought I'd update my ultra unscientific projection for the election. I'm now getting a Tory majority of between 36 and 56 (my old one was 38 to 64). Slipping.
 
S

Spaghetti

Member
Struggled through the One Show for that Corbyn interview. It's vacuous shite, but fucking hell is it night and day between Corbyn and May.
 
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Huw_Dawson

Member
Judging by Nick Robinson on Twitter and others, I think the Yougov poll is getting lots of cold water thrown on it.

The debate tomorrow night should be fun now.
 
D

Dabanton

Member
Ravensmash said:
It's disturbing how many shows like that exist.

The descriptions are so incendiary but I caught five minutes of one and I actually felt empathy with the people shown - probably not the intention.

My only guilty pleasure in that vein is Can't Pay? We'll take it away!
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'Can't pay we'll take it away' is interesting in that at least the guys doing it aren't there to view people as zoo animals. And the people they go to see seem to go from people with nothing to upper middle class people.

Genuinely interesting show.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
bit late to this but people who try to justify zero hours by saying "flexibility" are so full of shit. It's not like you get to ring up and go "hey I only want to work 2 hours today. cool?" it's more like they ring you and say "we might need you between 8am-10pm can you just wait around all day" *end of the day* "we didn't need you". I'm sure it works for someone in some situation but the basic principles of it put all the power with the employer.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
D4Danger said:
bit late to this but people who try to justify zero hours by saying "flexibility" are so full of shit. It's not like you get to ring up and go "hey I only want to work 2 hours today. cool?" it's more like they ring you and say "we might need you between 8am-10pm can you just wait around all day" *end of the day* "we didn't need you". I'm sure it works for someone in some situation but the basic principles of it put all the power with the employer.
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The amount of abuse that can and does go on with zero hour contracts is something 99% of those saying they're good seemingly never have to experience. So the usual, it doesn't affect me so WHO CARES?! Or the nonsensical defence force that will romanticise the concept as they dare not challenge the Tories/corporate power structures.

In other words, it's not just about the actual zero hour contracts themselves, but our Governments complete lack of regulation/so-so attitude around them. Made even worse with us coming out of the EU for some of the impact it had on workers rights.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
Zero hours contracts are terrible, they offer no job security at all. There is no one out there that would trade a secure, routine 9-5 job for a zero hours contract because of the 'flexibility'.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Look I know it's cool to get all wound up on someone else's behalf these days but the people working zero hours contracts are more satisfied than the average employee: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/zero-hours-workers-are-as-happy-as-other-employees-a6759111.html
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I'm going to bet you don't work in a zero hour job? The scope for abuse is high and those that suffer, suffer bad.

Clearly everyone is just that happy that's why employers had to give more!

Numbers on such contracts for their main job was 903,000 in April to June 2016, up from 747,000 in the same period in 2015
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-jumps-by-20-per-cent-in-a-year-a7231561.html

Try working in minimum wage paying hospitality industry on a zero hour contract and talk about being "wound up on someone else's behalf".

Oh, and if you end up genuinely sick? Yeah. Try enjoying employment benefits such as sick pay.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Box of Kittens said:
I would not consider "new research by CIPD, the professional body for HR and people development," as it is described in the article, to be unbiased.
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Sample size seems to be 350. Links on independent site were broken

But the TUC union umbrella group said the sample of 350 zero hours workers was far too small to be representative. It said the survey should not be used to “gloss over” the fact the contracts were often used “as a way of keeping down wages and employing staff on worse terms and conditions”.

The CIPD said the sample of zero hours workers was drawn from a survey of 2,000 workers overall and used a “targeted boost” taken from a YouGov panel of 600,000 people.

“We are not saying that the sample is perfect, but what we are saying is this is the most reliable sample of zero-hour contract workers in the UK excluding the ONS data,” CIPD said.

There are about 1.4m zero hour contracts, according to official estimates, and they appear to have become a permanent feature of the labour market in the wake of the financial crisis.
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https://www.ft.com/content/ac067b7c-99b1-11e5-987b-d6cdef1b205c

The elephant in the room isn't any students going around stating "flexibility", it's the abuse that often goes on to skirt around having to take on people as "proper" employees.

The rapid rise in insecure work in the UK is costing the government almost £4bn a year in lost tax income and benefit payouts, according to new research into the gig economy by the Trades Union Congress.

The UK’s growing legions of low-paid, self-employed workers and those on zero-hours contracts earn significantly less than regular employees and therefore pay less tax and national insurance. Their relatively low earnings also make them more likely to need to rely on in-work benefits such as tax credits and housing benefit, the TUC said.

Taking those factors together translated to a loss to the exchequer of more than £75m a week – equivalent to more than a quarter of England’s social care budget.
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https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-work-bad-uk-economy-tuc-zero-hours-contracts

BENEFITS?! Quick, get the Tories right onto sorting these employers out.

British workers face “cut-rate, bottom-of-the-league protections” after Brexit, with more zero-hours contracts and fewer guarantees over holiday and equal pay, the TUC has warned, as it publishes a damning report highlighting the soaring number of insecure jobs in the UK.

The number of workers without guaranteed hours or basic employment rights has risen by more than 660,000 in the past five years, the study found.

Labour said an "explosion" of insecure jobs was likely unless fundamental workers’ rights were protected.

And the dire situation many employees now face is predicted to intensify once the Government drags the UK out of the EU.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-hours-contracts-rights-warning-a7565761.html

Brexit, woooo!
 
M

mo60

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
This is a re-run of 1974. Except instead of dastardly trade unions, it was the Lib Dems wanting a second referendum.
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I have seen worse early election backfires before. In other news it would fun to watch another election I watched in a span of a month end up with a minority government.
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Look I know it's cool to get all wound up on someone else's behalf these days but the people working zero hours contracts are more satisfied than the average employee: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/zero-hours-workers-are-as-happy-as-other-employees-a6759111.html
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JFC, of course you would feel happier with work-life balance if you don't work full time

It's very telling that that survey says nothing about actually important metrics, such as economical security
 
D

danm999

Member
mo60 said:
I never seen an early election call backfire this hard. It would be amazing if the UK tories ended up with a minority government.And I wouldn't assume that this poor poll will help the UK tories at this point.
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Check out Australian politics the last couple years!
 
C

CDX

Member
Doctor_Thomas said:
It can be blocked at anytime within the 2 years. This is a Tory lie that they, for some reason, kept repeating. EU even said we could revoke it.
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Really? So Brexit can be stopped.

But it only seems fair if we in the US are seemingly stuck with Trump you should be stuck with Brexit. We should both stay being miserable together.
 
A

Ark

Member
CDX said:
Really? So Brexit can be stopped.

But it only seems fair if we in the US are seemingly stuck with Trump you should be stuck with Brexit. We should both stay being miserable together.
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Except Trump will be gone in three years at worst, while we'll be out of the EU for the next 30 at least.
 
P

Pandy

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
OK, so let me be quite clear:

1. There is no way a coalition with the Conservative party could work. There is no way I could ever see Tim Farron stomaching being at a cabinet table with May. None. He despised the coalition. Also, Brexit - literally the main policy of our party is to not do stuff like leave the Single Market. There simply is not enough common ground to make a coalition work.
2. There is no way a coalition with Labour could work. Corbyn leads an unstable enough party as it is. Although we are happy to give thumbs up to the more centrists bits of his manifesto, he wants to raise taxes far, far too high and nationalise big chunks of the transport network. Also, he wants to go through with Brexit and leaving the Single Market. Thus, no common ground either. In addition, it would likely be a Labour/SNP coalition, and we cannot enter coalition with the SNP as we are a unionist party.

If instead the LDs hold the balance of power in a minority government situation, we can vote on legislation as it comes by the Commons, attempt to vote it down if it goes against what we want, or pass it if it's good Lib Demmy policy.

This gives the LDs a hell of a lot of power - no pacts or secret deals to allow crap legislation through.

The problem is that a Hung Commons will actually be hung between the Lib Dems, Plaid, the SNP, the NI parties, one or two Greens and an independent.

This is the parliament that has to pass the Autumn Statement (or is it a budget now, as they've unified them?) and legislation on leaving the EU.

It would be one of the most gloriously chaotic and short-lived parliaments in UK history.
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So, you're saying that you would work with Labour and the other parties then.

Good. No one is expecting a coalition government, so your previous comment seemed like the Lib Dem position was a further step back beyond that.
 
T

twofoldd

Member
Rodelero said:
Indeed - looking into it seems like a bit of 'fake news' that is taking twitter by storm. There's no way to determine his income from this information, and it seems highly unlikely it's anywhere near that high.
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Yup. Check your sources people - don't spread fake news.

Royal_Phalanx said:
Unless you're a student I don't see why zero hours would be a benefit. Would rather have a guaranteed income coming in.
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Most of the people who choose to stay on zero hour contracts at our warehouse work as artists, actors, photographers, stylists - that sort of thing. They're able to work on their main career while padding their income with warehouse work if they need it. Must be working for them because only 30~% choose to move to full time contracts (we give them the choice).

A friend of mine supplements his income doing extra work at a marketing agency. If he has the time he'll let them know - if not, he doesn't. The zero hour contract works for both parties here.

I don't think anyone is denying that some businesses abuse zero hour contracts, but there's a lot of people benefiting from them who will lose out if they disappear.

Outright banning them is not the right move, in my opinion - better to put in protections to prevent abuse, which the Lib Dems are trying to do.

From their manifesto:

'Stamp out abuse of Zero Hours Contracts. We will create a formal right to request a fixed contract and consult on introducing a right to make regular patterns of work contractual after a period of time.
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S

StayDead

Member
Empty said:
yep! labour have run a great campaign.

as for the tories, for once in my life i agree with george osborne

DBE66JyXYAAN9dE.jpg
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Ok, damn that's probably the only thing that I've ever agreed with that he's written. Also "Honey I shrunk the poll lead" is just pure gold haha.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
When you're looking at the polls getting hopeful just remember that from the beginning the Tories said their biggest threat was voter apathy based on people assuming they'd win easily. Hey presto in the last week of the campaign suddenly it's 'possible' they might lose. The Times have cherry picked the most labour optimistic poll they could find to get their story written, it's all just part of the plan to get their vote out. Then afterwards they'll say it was the fear of the SNP running Westminster that swung it to a 14 point win for May and people will still believe the polls next time.
 
C

Chinner

Banned
Ghost said:
When you're looking at the polls getting hopeful just remember that from the beginning the Tories said their biggest threat was voter apathy based on people assuming they'd win easily. Hey presto in the last week of the campaign suddenly it's 'possible' they might lose. The Times have cherry picked the most labour optimistic poll they could find to get their story written, it's all just part of the plan to get their vote out. Then afterwards they'll say it was the fear of the SNP running Westminster that swung it to a 14 point win for May and people will still believe the polls next time.
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I hold the same belief. This story is to cause some election drama and sell papers.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Whatever the reality of the poll, the Daily Fail are certainly rattled - there are currently seven separate articles on their sites front page shitting on Corbyn.

That's up from their usual three
 
M

mo60

Member
Ghost said:
When you're looking at the polls getting hopeful just remember that from the beginning the Tories said their biggest threat was voter apathy based on people assuming they'd win easily. Hey presto in the last week of the campaign suddenly it's 'possible' they might lose. The Times have cherry picked the most labour optimistic poll they could find to get their story written, it's all just part of the plan to get their vote out. Then afterwards they'll say it was the fear of the SNP running Westminster that swung it to a 14 point win for May and people will still believe the polls next time.
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I think their are fundamental issues with the tories campaign that is going to prevent them from winning a 14 point landslide at this point. Labour is going to end up getting around 35 percent of the vote with the tories getting somewhere between 42 and 46 percent of the vote.I give the UK tories a 25% chance of winning a minority at this point.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Well without migration especially after brexit the UK economy is ruined.

I do kind of doubt the veracity and motivation of this leak.
 
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