Spuck-uk
Banned
The damage that would be done to vulnerable people and the erosion of civil liberties is not worth kicking the can down the road for a later electoral victory imo.
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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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The damage that would be done to vulnerable people and the erosion of civil liberties is not worth kicking the can down the road for a later electoral victory imo.
Every cloud has a silver lining?
Daffy Duck
Member
Part of me (don your tin foil hat) has always thought the tories want to lose this election for precisely this reason, they play the long game, throw this election, then in 5 years time clean up on a blame Labour for the Brexit shit and then people will never vote for them again as they destroyed the country, even though they instigated it all.
RedSparrows
Member
I can see the Tories winning, Brexit being a nightmare, and still their core will not flinch.
/fatalist
/fatalist
Huw_Dawson
Member
The hope would be a manageable Tory majority of less than 50. Labour are hurt but still standing and the LDs have avoided humiliation.
May clings on. Brexit talks end in no deal. 50 or so Tories revolt, call on PM to resign. May does, the Tories have a rummage around and realise it's literally Boris Johnson or Andrea Leadsom.
BoJo goes to the country for a mandate. We get a GE in May 2020, with the Brexit situation actually settled for good or ill.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
If that was true then you'd have seen something like, oh I dunno, the Tories continuing to blame anything negative regarding the economy on Labour years after being in power.
And I don't think they've done that at all.
That's a really good point tbf, I mean I skew quite left of the spectrum myself (I voted Socialist Workers Party in the last Irish GE) and I just don't want to see Corbyn hung out to dry over something that's not his fault. Which will absolutely 100% happen if Labour win this election
If this happens, I'll have aged twenty years between 2015 and 2020.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Just watched Labours final advert, damn great stuff and wonderfully shot.
Actually got me teary, although I think that was starting out being inspired and hopeful and then Remembering how shit half this country is and realising it means nothing.
Actually got me teary, although I think that was starting out being inspired and hopeful and then Remembering how shit half this country is and realising it means nothing.
Welsh Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 34% (-1)
PC: 9% (+1)
LDEM: 5% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
(via @YouGov / 05 - 07 Jun)
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/872468993742954500
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 34% (-1)
PC: 9% (+1)
LDEM: 5% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
(via @YouGov / 05 - 07 Jun)
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/872468993742954500
HazySaiyan
Banned
Still one of my favourite Daily Mash articles:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...allel-universe-where-nazis-won-20151120104044
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...allel-universe-where-nazis-won-20151120104044
That would be pretty horrible. I know someone that was diagnosed with that a couple if years ago, and he's not the person he was then at all.
Huw_Dawson
Member
IKR
But it's the best shot the left has. A hung parliament would result in a do-over and a comfortable majority will result in Tory rule until 2022.
Nobody seriously wants to be here in November, with Brexit talks in crisis and BoJo asking for a mandate for another National Government.
I got excited but then I saw 'YouGov'
Would make every one that took the piss out of here look like twats.
ferrasvansen
Member
Labour vote will be fine in Wales, London and the cities, its the leave areas in Midlands and North East etc that are the problem.
After 33 thousand retweets and chasing the PM in a car, Jon Snow has finally got an interview with May.
https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/872471366062055424
https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/872471366062055424
I can hardly wait.
strong leadership, tough on terrorists, brexit, very clear etc etc. The Tory campaign obviously feels like it's okay to get her back out there now the message has switched back to the dystopian nightmare future.
QuicheFontaine
Member
There's something oddly amusing about Jon doing his 'presenter voice' while sat in the passenger seat of a car going down the M6. I really want to believe he speaks like that all the time.
itsbenoclock
Member
Can't wait to see this one
WadiumArcadium
Member
"I'm very clear that I've wanted to do this interview all along Jon."
My grandfather had it, terrible disease.
Little Old Man
Member
"If security of the Kingdom is of paramount importance, why did you fire Ser Barristan Selmy?"
'Darling. If I may stop you. Put the bins out. Please. Thank you so much'
Spuck-uk
Banned
Fucking lol
Labour would almost certainly be better if they didn't win this, especially because it is very unlikely Labour would be able to implement most of their manifesto in what is potentially a financial crisis for the UK, however having Theresa "No deal is better than a bad deal" May in charge would dictate far far more than just the inevitable 5 to 10 years they would win after 2022, it is really quite hard to screw up a country more than leaving the EU without a deal, which is something that the Conservatives are in theory willing to do.
Still silver lining a screwed up Brexit gives Labour a better chance to win the next elections.
Also I believe you are seriously underestimating how much Trump has accomplished in just 138 days, he is clearly an over achiever as far as fuck ups go, so with still 1322 days to go (lets assume the worse), he might easily start a war in Korea killing dozens of millions of people in the process.
I think if they were genuinely trying they would have managed to lose (I know election not over but lol), and it would be a really good play, you would likely get a sane brexit deal, or well as sane as one can expect from such a situation, you would have labour take 3 years of the consequences of leaving the EU which will certainly not be nice, just for them to come in and claim Labour bended to the EU aka Satan, blah blah blah usual rhetoric, and lead for what is likely the next 2 elections.
OFC this is the party that claimed to go for hard brexit, doing comments about kicking out EU citizens, that started brexit in the first place, trying to ransom security cooperation and so on and so forth, so you know I think all around it would be giving them way way too much credit even if it mean they failed to lose the election on purpose.
nah the narrative right now is being a leader and standing up to terrorist so expect that to be the main focus
A lot of their Core voted for it and to go against it full force would be more suicide
because people voted for it and going against it is political suicide (see: lib dems polls. sorry, Huw.)
Corbyn and the "hard left" of Labour view the EU as having far too many "privatization" initiatives that remove services from government-oriented control to market-oriented control.
I'm not sure I would characterize him as pro-Brexit, but more of a "Leftist Euroskeptic"
Well during this campaign, he has consistently brought up the issue of 'cheap batch imports' of low paid workers from Eastern Europe taking jobs from locals.
He's always been seen as a Euro-sceptic-lite though but remember that he's always been anti-establishment in general, even when he's been a part of it.
There's always been a strong socialist opposition to the EU - there's a definite argument that it privileges Capital over Labour.
Spuck-uk
Banned
I don't think it's so much pro-brexit as inevitable brexit.
The real answer is that a lot of the swing voters they need are. There's also the old labour lot who never wanted to go into the EU in the first place. (The Beast of Bolsover for one)
Huw_Dawson
Member
Nothing to be sorry about - we'll reap the rewards in a couple of years.
Labour's calculation was likely the correct one - that Remainers would be less upset by Labour going for Brexit than Brexiteers would be if Labour didn't go for Brexit.
There's more to it than that. Corbyn voted against joining the EU, voted against the Maastricht Treaty, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty.
I can't help but wonder if he'd have been supporting the Leave campaign if it wasn't for being Labour leader at the time.
Spuck-uk
Banned
Nothing to be sorry about - we'll reap the rewards in a couple of years.
You will be welcomed into the glorious socialist republic of Clive Lewis Amazing Britain c.2025
Corbyn himself because of the typical anti free market and perceived loss of democracy view of the left (like Tony Benn) and for Labour as a party because many of its voters are pro Brexit and it would be seen as a betrayal to go against a democratic vote.
Aye but Labour didn't and the party is now pro-Brexit - that's not just Corbyn.
Spuck-uk
Banned
If you could call that relatively lukewarm, milquetoast, half-hearted effort that he put forth "campaigning"
PNothing to be sorry about - we'll reap the rewards in a couple of years.
Labour's calculation was likely the correct one - that Remainers would be less upset by Labour going for Brexit than Brexiteers would be if Labour didn't go for Brexit.
I think that was the mood early on where people just didn't have the appetite for another referendum or anything. It was done and the message rightly changed to making the best of it instead of moaning.
I do like the Lib Dems support a second ref on the deal though, that should've been an option but Cameron fucked it up.
Huw_Dawson
Member
You jest, but if you're of the opinion that leaving the Single Market will be very, very bad for the economy, it's really not hard to see how "we told you so" is the route back to relevance. Labour sellotaped to bad Tory policy will bite them hard unless Brexit isn't a horrible idea.
Oh, you mean like it has been since it's inception? Don't be barmy if you think Westminster cares about NI, Wales and Scotland.
The only reason Scotland wants independence is because Westminster doesn't care. If we had a government that wanted to make things better for everyone, the union might be worth it for everyone.
I was talking about Corbyn's views. Obviously Labour is supporting Brexit (I wouldn't call them "pro-Brexit") because it would now be political suicide not to be following the referendum.
And various Labour MPs have said when questioned that they looked at the idea of leaving the EU but remaining in the single market, but that this wouldn't work for the UK due to our complex economy. We either have to be all in or all out, in their assessment.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
I know a girl who reposted Guy Verhofstadt posts on granting people EU citizenship on Facebook and is hoping that the EU does something to help her and other pro-European younger people out since she wants to move to Germany yet also enthusiastically attended the Corbyn rally and said his manifesto was excellent. Seems like more people want to moderate and water down Brexit rather than trying to reverse it now and they believe Corbyn is the man to do that.
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