Support NeoGAF

[Audioboxer]

Why do Labour let Abbott go on TV so much?

https://twitter.com/SteveBlogs1/status/860481516454936577

Crazy.

Everyone else in Labour is probably chickenshit, but when your best spokesperson is Abbott you're fucked anyway. She might be a really nice person, but she should not be on national TV fighting for Labours cause. Probably worse than Corbyn at speaking and then seeing a decline in Labour popularity.

 

[Meadows]

People aren't as easily pigeon holes as many would think. I think most 2nd preference votes in Birmingham from the Greens went to the Tories

 

[travisbickle]

?

That's not what that is.

Just showing a way they will claim record spending in a couple of years when they're not even providing funding at 1% growth.

 

[Jezbollah]

I don't understand this... Surely anyone who would vote Labour but doesn't want to because of Corbyn would actually vote LibDem? Unless Brexit policy is the key to them flipping, I don't see why they'd vote Conservative.

That said, I can actually see it happening, because this would be the UK version of Obama-Trump voters.

Until I see the manifestos, at the moment I am leaning towards Lib Dem - given though that I live in a Tory constituency with a 25k majority I don't know what this achieves :/

 

[Little Old Man]

Probably already posted, but via the Guardian:

Hours after Burnham’s triumph, Corbyn went to Manchester for a victory rally. Several hundred activists joined him on the steps of Manchester Central, the conference centre where the result was announced, but there was no sign of the new mayor. Corbyn explained away Burnham’s absence by saying: “I have spoken to Andy and he is already working hard on behalf of the people of Greater Manchester region”.
A now-deleted tweet from George Newton, a member of Team Burnham, revealed that Burnham was, in fact, hard at work drinking champagne with his family and friends in what appeared to be the Refuge, one of Manchester’s hippest restaurants, described by the Guardian’s food critic as “a dropdead glamourpuss”.

Smart man. Keep a wide gap from those who are deeply unpopular and trying to take some of the credit.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Another reminder that the prediction league is open. PM me or quote this post and put in your own numbers. Winner gets a bottle of something. Should make election night more fun / less depressing. I'm keeping track of all predictions on an Excel spreadsheet.

Conservative Party seats:
Green Party seats:
Labour seats:
Lib Dem seats:
Plaid Cymru seats:
SNP seats:
UKIP seats:
Independently held seats:
Seats held by other parties:

BONUS:
Labour wipe-out in Scotland?
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland?
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales?
The Portillo award goes to..?
First resignation of the night?
How many party leaders will resign?
Seat for Nuttall?
Margin of victory by seats:
Margin of victory by votes:

Scoring works as follows: 200 points for correct seat allocation, 1 point removed for incorrect distribution. 10 points per correct bonus question. For margin of victory by seats, 50 points for a perfect answer, lose 1 point per seat away from that perfect answer that you were. For margin of victory by votes, 20 points for a perfect answer (rounded to 100,000), lose one point per 100,000 that you were away from that perfect answer. Margins will be between party with most seats / votes and the party with the second most seats / votes. Portillo award winner will be decided on the night. Quote to reveal the Excel spreadsheet, if you want to have a gander at others' predictions.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Until I see the manifestos, at the moment I am leaning towards Lib Dem - given though that I live in a Tory constituency with a 25k majority I don't know what this achieves :/

Short term, it helps the Lib Dem candidate keep their deposit. Long term, if enough people vote Lib Dem in the area, the party may look at targeting it seriously in the future.

 

[Audioboxer]

Another reminder that the prediction league is open. PM me or quote this post and put in your own numbers. Winner gets a bottle of something. Should make election night more fun / less depressing. I'm keeping track of all predictions on an Excel spreadsheet.

Conservative Party seats:
Green Party seats:
Labour seats:
Lib Dem seats:
Plaid Cymru seats:
SNP seats:
UKIP seats:
Independently held seats:
Seats held by other parties:

BONUS:
Labour wipe-out in Scotland?
More Conservative votes than Labour in Scotland?
More Conservative seats than Labour in Wales?
The Portillo award goes to..?
First resignation of the night?
How many party leaders will resign?
Seat for Nuttall?
Margin of victory by seats:
Margin of victory by votes:

Scoring works as follows: 200 points for correct seat allocation, 1 point removed for incorrect distribution. 10 points per correct bonus question. For margin of victory by seats, 50 points for a perfect answer, lose 1 point per seat away from that perfect answer that you were. For margin of victory by votes, 20 points for a perfect answer (rounded to 100,000), lose one point per 100,000 that you were away from that perfect answer. Margins will be between party with most seats / votes and the party with the second most seats / votes. Portillo award winner will be decided on the night. Quote to reveal the Excel spreadsheet, if you want to have a gander at others' predictions.

Only in the UK would we reward the depressed with a bottle of alcohol Scotland should be exempt or everyone will be asking for a bottle of Buckfast.

*cue Buckfast making it onto GiantBomb*

I'll maybe try some predictions nearer the date.

 

[Jezbollah]

Short term, it helps the Lib Dem candidate keep their deposit. Long term, if enough people vote Lib Dem in the area, the party may look at targeting it seriously in the future.

Very true, thanks.

 

[pswii60]

LibDems and tax rise for NHS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39822306

The party estimates someone earning £15,000 would pay an extra £33 a year in tax, with someone on £50,000 paying an extra £383.

They want me to pay more than £383 extra a year purely for the NHS? They do realise that I could put that £32/month towards a private healthcare policy and get far better value for money. And not to forget that in our household it would also mean my wife paying around an extra £25 per month too. So we'd be drained of £57/month!

 

[Nexus Zero]

LibDems and tax rise for NHS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39822306


They want me to pay more than £383 extra a year purely for the NHS? They do realise that I could put that £32/month towards a private healthcare policy and get far better value for money. And not to forget that in our household it would also mean my wife paying around an extra £25 per month too. So we'd be drained of £57/month!

The NHS is mostly about ensuring everyone gets healthcare. You're a higher earner so you pay over the odds. Good problem to have.

 

[Dougald]

Ah yes, all those private A&E departments would be much better funded that way. Meanwhile people who can't afford it can wait on a trolley in a corridor for two days like my dad did last year

 

[pswii60]

The NHS is mostly about ensuring everyone gets healthcare. You're a higher earner so you pay over the odds. Good problem to have.

Barely a 'higher earner'. And you're missing the point. It's not exactly a good sales pitch, for me to have to pay almost the equivalent of a private healthcare policy in additional to what we're already paying for the NHS as it stands. I'd rather vote for another party and get the private healthcare policy.

Ah yes, all those private A&E departments would be much better funded that way. Meanwhile people who can't afford it can wait on a trolley in a corridor for two days like my dad did last year

It's a fucking huge tax hike just to improve A&E.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

LibDems and tax rise for NHS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39822306


They want me to pay more than £383 extra a year purely for the NHS? They do realise that I could put that £32/month towards a private healthcare policy and get far better value for money. And not to forget that in our household it would also mean my wife paying around an extra £25 per month too. So we'd be drained of £57/month!

Fuck you fucking poors, why should I subsidise your healthcare? Why do I get out of it? Why don't you just fuck off and die already.

 

[Dougald]

Private healthcare services still lean on the NHS infrastructure, simply saying you'd get better value with a private policy is really missing the point

Hell I get a private policy through my employer and I still have to rely on the NHS for almost everything including pre existing conditions. No private A&E, no private walk-in centre or GP (that are covered anyway)

I'm going for surgery this month and Bupa sure as shit have refused to cover a penny of that, so I had to wait 6 months due to the under funded NHS

 

[Huw_Dawson]

They want me to pay more than £383 extra a year purely for the NHS? They do realise that I could put that £32/month towards a private healthcare policy and get far better value for money.

Without extra investment, particularly in the social care area, the NHS is either going to end up perpetually syphoning money from other government departments, or actually end up unable to cope. This measure would raise £6bn a year, address funding shortfalls - especially the £2bn funding shortfall this year in social care - and is only the first step. One other big tax change would be reordering taxes to create one that specifically shows you on your payslip each month how much money you have put into the NHS and social care.

It's good policy - 'a penny on the pound for your healthcare'. You might think that you'd be better off paying for private healthcare, but the country is going to suffer if the NHS and social care cannot pay their way.

 

[Maleficence]

LibDems and tax rise for NHS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39822306


They want me to pay more than £383 extra a year purely for the NHS? They do realise that I could put that £32/month towards a private healthcare policy and get far better value for money. And not to forget that in our household it would also mean my wife paying around an extra £25 per month too. So we'd be drained of £57/month!

You are earning over 50k? You will never have to worry about surviving, about food, about your health. Paying a little extra to help the poorest and worst off in the country so they don't have to worry as much about their health and lives should not be of much concern to you. Have some fucking empathy.

 

[pswii60]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's fine though..when the games industry collapses because I have £57/month less to spend on games, then we can talk again. Essential items.

Spoiler

This is a joke

You are earning over 50k? You will never have to worry about surviving, about food, about your health. Paying a little extra to help the poorest and worst off in the country so they don't have to worry as much about their health and lives should not be of much concern to you. Have some fucking empathy.

Oh I don't have any 'fucking empathy' because I'm sick to death of us plunging more and more money in to a NHS that needs radical reform? You have no idea of the charity work I'm involved in, and it's not like I don't already pay a shit load of tax in every direction.

 

[Dougald]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's fine though..when the games industry collapses because I have £57/month less to spend on games, then we can talk again. Essential items.

Hyperbole or what

 

[Audioboxer]

Barely a 'higher earner'. And you're missing the point. It's not exactly a good sales pitch, for me to have to pay almost the equivalent of a private healthcare policy in additional to what we're already paying for the NHS as it stands. I'd rather vote for another party and get the private healthcare policy.

It's a fucking huge tax hike just to improve A&E.

As said above the NHS has never been about a personal gain of what I put in I better get back out 1:1. I'm not clued up enough on how they've got to their numbers above, or if there are other ways to raise the money that isn't just going right to citizen taxes. Well, of course, there will be, this country is a mess wth spending and priorities, largely thanks to the Tories.

However, it's always going to be the case that everyone can end up paying for everyone else too. The day you may or may not need a major operation or a lot of scans, well, just look to what America charges. My parents were in America a few years back now and my mum took a suspected stroke. It didn't end up being a stroke but there was $15,000 of bills for the insurance company to pay for all the scans and staying in the hospital a few days.

That's the "price we pay" for funding an NHS, and if you are earning a reasonable amount over what most people earn on minimum wage you'll see yourself hit with higher tax bands. Mainly to help compensate more than the less well off below you, or be there for those not in work/with long-term sickness. If that makes anyone angry then I would begin to ask questions around your compassion levels. The NHS as I've said is not supposed to be a "what do I get because I earn x/work harder than others?" kind of service.

Not getting at you, just sharing. I did say above I haven't read enough about the Lib Dems approach, but ALL of us know something has to be done to help the NHS. From both the Government and the people. The Tories will not be a Government to help it though, their plan is quite clearly starving it to sway public minds to "yeah... let's get some private firms in to run it better".

 

[PJV3]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's fine though..when the games industry collapses because I have £57/month less to spend on games, then we can talk again. Essential items.

You can be selfish and realise a viable NHS drives down the price in the private sector and keeps the dirty peasants who tend to be sicker out of your hospital.

 

[Maleficence]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's fine though..when the games industry collapses because I have £57/month less to spend on games, then we can talk again. Essential items.

Spoiler

This is a joke

Oh I don't have any 'fucking empathy' because I'm sick to death of us plunging more and more money in to a NHS that needs radical reform? You have no idea of the charity work I'm involved in, and it's not like I don't already pay a shit load of tax in every direction.

My heart bleeds for you, instead of those that are suffering due to heavy funding cuts to health and social care.

What are your ideas for NHS radical reform?

 

[pswii60]

You can be selfish and realise a viable NHS drives down the price in the private sector and keeps the dirty peasants who tend to be sicker out of your hospital.

As Stephen Fry once said, he likes Sainsbury's. Because it keeps the riff-raff out of Waitrose.

My heart bleeds for you, instead of those that are suffering due to heavy funding cuts to health and social care.

What are your ideas for NHS radical reform?

All I said at the start is that the LibDems obviously aren't going to get my vote with such a tax hike. I'm happy to pay more for a better NHS, but not £57/month more out of our household income.

And I'm not taking your bait with regards to your question.

 

[RedShift]

Barely a 'higher earner'. And you're missing the point. It's not exactly a good sales pitch, for me to have to pay almost the equivalent of a private healthcare policy in additional to what we're already paying for the NHS as it stands. I'd rather vote for another party and get the private healthcare policy.

It's a fucking huge tax hike just to improve A&E.

If you think 50 grand doesn't make you a higher earner you're pretty out if touch with reality to be honest.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

NHS needs more radical reform?

Jesus Christ...

 

[Maleficence]

And no don't agree to disagree, debate.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I like how the Tories are shouting that 'this would mean more tax for everyone!' Because leaving the single market is going to put the government's coffers in an amazing situation.

You won't see the tax triple lock in the Tory manifesto. They'll raise income tax too - but I bet it won't go to the NHS.

 

[Chinner]

NHS needs more radical reform?

Jesus Christ...

it needs to be privatised! that is the only way to save the nhs!

p.s. the poor, old and those with pre existing conditions plz go and die.

 

[PJV3]

NHS needs more radical reform?

Jesus Christ...

Bottom line is this shit costs a lot of money and we spend less than others, no really complicated solution that contributes to Richard Branson's lifestyle deals with that.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

You can be selfish and realise a viable NHS drives down the price in the private sector and keeps the dirty peasants who tend to be sicker out of your hospital.

It's as if some people don't know what a truly private healthcare system looks like and how expensive it would be.

It's a shame an example of that system doesn't exist anywhere in the world, if only so we could have something to point to when people complain about paying a few pounds more for the NHS.

 

[D4Danger]

Not having a go but "Why should I pay more tax for the NHS when I could put that money towards better private healthcare for myself" perfectly sums up the current state of this country.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The Greens have stood aside in Twickenham and Richmond - the Tories have immediately screamed 'COALITION OF CHAOS!'

The only coalition we'd be in would be a LD-Green one. Maybe LD-Green-PC.

 

[TheChaos0]

Barely a 'higher earner'. And you're missing the point. It's not exactly a good sales pitch, for me to have to pay almost the equivalent of a private healthcare policy in additional to what we're already paying for the NHS as it stands. I'd rather vote for another party and get the private healthcare policy.

It's a fucking huge tax hike just to improve A&E.

Since when does the taxation requires to have a good sales pitch? You are paying money to improve the service for everyone not just yourself - your parents, your kids, your significant other, your friends, your friends friends, etc.

This is a very selfish attitude to have, the tax is not going to break your back but will help others that need the service. You only need to look at the current situation with NHS to realise that maybe NHS could use some more funding. A better health service makes a better country.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Only in the UK would we reward the depressed with a bottle of alcohol Scotland should be exempt or everyone will be asking for a bottle of Buckfast.

*cue Buckfast making it onto GiantBomb*

I'll maybe try some predictions nearer the date.

How have I never seen this? I need to see this!

Do they actually drink the honky tonk?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

The Greens have stood aside in Twickenham and Richmond - the Tories have immediately screamed 'COALITION OF CHAOS!'

The only coalition we'd be in would be a LD-Green one. Maybe LD-Green-PC.

At this point, I'm thinking that the Greens have become more interested in the 'progressive alliance' thing (standing down in seats where they have no chance) as a result of their being flat broke.

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

If you think 50 grand doesn't make you a higher earner you're pretty out if touch with reality to be honest.

Depends a lot on where you live to be honest, I live in London and you would need to earn quite a bit more than that to feel like a higher earner.

 

[PJV3]

The Greens have stood aside in Twickenham and Richmond - the Tories have immediately screamed 'COALITION OF CHAOS!'

The only coalition we'd be in would be a LD-Green one. Maybe LD-Green-PC.

You would think the Tories had any real chance of even losing a decent majority, so much Tory bullshit is being swallowed this year.

 

[Maleficence]

Depends a lot on where you live to be honest, I live in London and you would need to earn quite a bit more than that to feel like a higher earner.

Even in London 50K gives you a more than comfortable living.

 

[pswii60]

Not having a go but "Why should I pay more tax for the NHS when I could put that money towards better private healthcare for myself" perfectly sums up the current state of this country.

Not more tax. THAT much more tax. And that it's only for the NHS and doesn't fix any of other other problems.

Even in London 50K gives you a more than comfortable living.

LOL

I actually did.

EDIT: I should say that I am actually voting LibDems, because they're the only party that has a chance of taking a seat of the Tories. So I am doing my bit for you all, even if I don't agree with this policy.

 

[Audioboxer]

If you think 50 grand doesn't make you a higher earner you're pretty out if touch with reality to be honest.

Also true. Most people will be high teens, low 20's. Like the Tory MPs at the top, lots of citizens seem to forget there are masses of people doing lots of jobs in catering, retail, customer service, cleaning, council work and more. These jobs need to be done, and before anyone acts all smart ass about degrees and education, some of these roles have people in them who probably work 10x harder each day than people who earn 2/2.5x as much.

It's not a competition, no, but a reality check that if you manage to climb up the wealth ladder the people below you don't stop existing. Be proud of your accomplishments, but don't turn into a penny-pinching Tory that has disdain and anger for anyone not in your social/wealth circles. A compassionate society and Government will actually do a lot towards helping lift many out of poverty and help others get motivated to try and better their lives. Constantly pelting poorer/less well off people with derogatory remarks just goes to keep most of them down. All part of the plan for the elites I guess, it's always good to have someone else to blame.

Maybe I'm a little biased as my future career will most likely be in the NHS after my doctorate is done. If I pass all my exams and projects of course ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) In the mean time I work part-time in a supermarket and yeah, supermarkets employ loads of people... on meh wages. Worked call centres and customer service previously on... meh wages. No one expects to be earning 50k in these jobs, unless upper management, but every one of these people is just as likely to need the NHS to be there for them as someone earning 50k+. If people would like socially funded health-care it comes with many realities that if you earn a shit load more than some of the poorest, or the national average, you'll most likely end up putting more in.

How have I never seen this? I need to see this!

Do they actually drink the honky tonk?

Yup, LOL.

It's E3 from 2014

https://youtu.be/NRoOOwwJQaU?t=194 (Go 3:15)

"OH, THAT'S OF A LOW QUALITY".

Yes, yes, it is.

 

[JustinJ004]

Not having a go but "Why should I pay more tax for the NHS when I could put that money towards better private healthcare for myself" perfectly sums up the current state of this country.

It's sad but not all of us are like that. My taxes would go up by more than the above poster but I'll be voting Lib-Dem and would gladly pay the extra if by some miracle they won.

 

[Moosichu]

We'll have to agree to disagree. It's fine though..when the games industry collapses because I have £57/month less to spend on games, then we can talk again. Essential items.

Spoiler

This is a joke

Oh I don't have any 'fucking empathy' because I'm sick to death of us plunging more and more money in to a NHS that needs radical reform? You have no idea of the charity work I'm involved in, and it's not like I don't already pay a shit load of tax in every direction.

The NHS is one of the most efficient and cheapest healthcare systems on the word. It's anemic, there is no money being "plunged" into it as you're putting it.

Do you know where a lot of money gets wasted? Endless reforms that don't solve the problem of the NHS not being given enough money.


Look at how much health insurance costs in the US if you want to know what a collapse of the NHS looks like.

https://youtu.be/qMNuxPByEW0

Good healthcare isn't a zero sum game. If the workforce of the country doesn't have access to healthcare, it's going to drain the economy so much that it will undo any savings made not providing it at least twice over.


There's even some evidence to show the success of the UK since the 1600s was due it's early welfare system.

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/...-ignores-lessons-of-history-researchers-claim

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

Even in London 50K gives you a more than comfortable living.

Depends on your standards and how responsible you are in planning your financial future.
If you spend everything you're making every month sure, it's a good enough living, but if you want to plan ahead and ensure a comfortable retirement - since state pensions in the UK are a joke - then not much. And by that I mean, not being able to afford your own place, limit nights out etc. Which works for me and many other people, but still does not feel much like it fits in the 'higher earner' definition.

edit: this does not mean I would be opposed to paying more to support the NHS of course. Regarding taxes however, I do think the income tax bands require some revising and should be more progressive, there's a big difference between 45k and 150k and as of now they're grouped in the same 40% tax bracket (and it's only 5%higher to 45% for any income > 150k as I understand it). Not sure what the situation was like historically as I've only been in the UK for a few years.

 

[Real Hero]

Depends on your standards and how responsible you are in planning your financial future.
If you spend everything you're making every month sure, it's a good enough living, but if you want to plan ahead and ensure a comfortable retirement - since state pensions in the UK are a joke - then not much. And by that I mean, not being able to afford your own place, limit nights out etc. Which works for me and many other people, but still does not feel much like it fits in the 'higher earner' definition.

oh no limiting nights out...

 

[Maleficence]

Depends on your standards

This is a really crap justification and can apply to absolutely everyone.

I'm under no illusions that 50K is a huge earner but it's certainly far far higher than the average and there's no good reason someone earning that much should be having any difficulty living comfortably.

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

oh no limiting nights out...

I don't even go out much, those were just examples of things that one would think a so-called 'higher earner' would be able to do.

This is a really crap justification and can apply to absolutely everyone.

I'm under no illusions that 50K is a huge earner but it's certainly far far higher than the average and there's no good reason someone earning that much should be having any difficulty living comfortably.

I agree! What I am contending is that 1. it depends a lot on where you live and how expensive living is (I don't think 50k is much higher than average where I live for instance)
and 2. being able to live a decent life does not make you a higher earner.

 

[twofoldd]

Even in London 50K gives you a more than comfortable living.

If you're single, maybe. If you have children, not really.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

EDIT: I should say that I am actually voting LibDems, because they're the only party that has a chance of taking a seat of the Tories. So I am doing my bit for you all, even if I don't agree with this policy.

We can disagree on policy, but thank you for voting LD.

 

[Melchettsmoustache]

Im amazed that someone thought coming on to GAF, detailing their household incomes and decrying a tax increase to fund the NHS was ever a good idea.

Based on your comments you and your wife must be paying around £15-20k in tax and NI between you so your clearly paying your dues for society but damn your comment was always going to get burned.

 

[Moral Panic]

Cancer treatment can cost 1 million dollars in the US, everyone has "paid their dues" until they need expensive treatment. If we want to live in society then there are costs to it which will be shared out according to your ability to pay.