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UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding

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PJV3

PJV3

Member
I just hope that if Labour voters are going to crucify the party because of Corbyn, that they don't remove all his opposition and leave him stronger.

So I'm expecting exactly that.
 
G

Goodlife

Member
Billy_Pilgrim said:
Corbyn supporters in a nutshell. No interest at all in the Labour party as a party of government.
Click to expand...

Hardly mun.
My local councilor has been very good to us.
One example. Last Christmas Eve our oven broke. She found out about it and was on the phone to me offering me keys to the local community centre which has a catering oven for us to cook our Christmas dinner the next day.

She's just a great local councilor
 
Jezbollah

Jezbollah

Member
PJV3 said:
I just hope that if Labour voters are going to crucify the party because of Corbyn, that they don't remove all his opposition and leave him stronger.

So I'm expecting exactly that.
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There is talk of deliberate, strategic campaigning by Corbyn's circle not to win as many seats as possible, but to strengthen his position as party leader after the Election. I fear your theory is very accurate.
 
Q

Quixzlizx

Member
Trump's bleating about millions of illegal votes made more sense than "losing hundreds of seats means we're narrowing the gap."
 
F

Faddy

Banned
Dan27 said:
Corbyn, and the people he surrounds himself with, are nowhere near competent enough to run this country. They have a track record of not being able to run their party cohesively and in harmony. Regardless of the policies, this collective group of people utterly disqualifies a vote for Labour for me. And I suspect this is the case for thousands of other voters.
Click to expand...

Oh what stability under the Tories.

Cameron and his coke addict Chancellor call an EU referendum which they lose. The leaders of the Leave campaign then run away from responsibility leaving Theresa May to pick up the pieces. She is so incompetent she has messed up the EU negotiations before they start, appointing clown in chief BoJo to Foreign Secretary and losing multiple court cases.

Cameron resigns and Osborne goes part time while Theresa May flip-flops on whether she wants a general election. Add in defection to/from UKIP and it is clear the Tories are an absolute shambles as well.

And just to add to their incompetence they have more than DOUBLED the national debt.

So tell me again about how the Conservatives are competent to run the country.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Faddy said:
Oh what stability under the Tories.

Cameron and his coke addict Chancellor call an EU referendum which they lose. The leaders of the Leave campaign then run away from responsibility leaving Theresa May to pick up the pieces. She is so incompetent she has messed up the EU negotiations before they start, appointing clown in chief BoJo to Foreign Secretary and losing multiple court cases.

Cameron resigns and Osborne goes part time while Theresa May flip-flops on whether she wants a general election. Add in defection to/from UKIP and it is clear the Tories are an absolute shambles as well.

And just to add to their incompetence they have more than DOUBLED the national debt.

So tell me again about how the Conservatives are competent to run the country.
Click to expand...

STRONG and STABLE

Remember. Remember?

We don't want a COALITION OF CHAOS STRONG STABLE CHAOS.
 
L

Little Old Man

Member
Walshicus said:
I just wish there was even the hint of a positive political future for England. It's exhausting seeing the bad guys win so much.
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Genuinely I watch Obama speeches from time to time. Particularly his victory speech from '08. It really helps me believe in what can be achieved from a grassroots level, and the predjudice that a country can overcome. Politics of hope not fear.
 
S

sammex

Member
C_F03J2XcAAsViu.jpg
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You'd think the Express wouldn't be so ecstatic after how UKIP has been all but wiped out.

source.gif
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I think what I'm getting is that there should be a political party that's basically just made up of the socially liberal, private school fodder Tory girls and we would all vote for it? They can have very technocratic policies. Just loads of parties with imaginable amounts of cocaine and school girl outfits.
 
D

disco

Member
sammex said:
You'd think the Express wouldn't be so ecstatic after how UKIP has been all but wiped out.

source.gif
Click to expand...
UKIP was just a rebel play thing for a few years, something to push buttons and gossip about - now they're simply happy they're part of the Tory establishment. They've always wanted to rise that high - amalgamate themselves with the more smartly dressed faces of class and income (and race) inequality. Sadly they weren't let in for a while but now it seems it's their time... Navy blue oaks are more tasteful than a purple and yellow Poundland logo don't you know?
 
R

Ravensmash

Member
Has anyone tried to legally query that claim of the express being ten times better?

It's probably ten times worse than the Mail, and that is saying something.
 
W

Wvrs

Member
There's nothing worse than walking into a barber shop, a waiting room, and all there is to read is The Sun and its ilk.

Would rather flick through my internet-less phone every time.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
Next major events on the trail:

1. Manifesto launches for Tories, Labour, SNP and Lib Dems. According to the Telegraph, they should be released between the 15th-17th.
2. ITV Leader's Debate on the 18th.

Labour's pretty close to an actual breakdown in their campaign right now, so the polls over the next few days should be interesting. My expectation is to see a pretty nasty fall as Labour voters flee back to "what's the point".

The leader's debate is probably going to be the least-watched yet, I'd wager. With UKIP deceased, this is going to be a debate between four remain parties having a moan at how awful the two big parties are, and Nuttall sticking up for Brexit. If Farron does well, he might get a personal popularity boost but I don't think that will affect the target seats strategy. It'd give us more good second places, but the Tories still get their landslide.

After that the campaign hits crazy season and we'll get to see if Labour can actually make it to polling day without imploding.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Manifestos? I presume for the Tories that'll have no detail and just pictures of Theresa May, so she doesn't have to be bound by any promises ever. And then a day of sickening TV interviews from "senior Tories" backing her up as they don't want to let Mummy down because they're not fucking weird in the slightest

Labour, I dunno, on a back of a fag packet and the usual stuff about how they'll fund things which differ depending on if it's Corbz or Old McDonald who's interviewed that day? See: funding of the national education service or whatever that was. Maybe they'll keep throwing 'Peoples' in front of things, yeah, great idea, the many and the few voters left.

SNP Manifesto: Stop the tories, the tories, the tories. Aren't they bad, and we'll put wording about a referendum that tries not to be too harsh to not scare of the Nos but basically is 'when we feel like it'

Lib Dem: Hey hey our policy on Brexit is it's bad, and we're sorry, and we'll do something unspecified against Brexit


And then the debate, no Corbyn, Nuttal has no personality, Tim Farron is someone doing an impression of a person, and then some others most can't or won't vote for. Ooooh it's hotting up.

But most importantly. £2.40 for a 99? THANKS BREXIT
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
The manifestos will actually be somewhat important - if Labour can get back onto talking policy, they might be able to staunch the bleeding a bit. Reminding people why they vote Labour should help a bit. I'd expect Labour to spend a lot of money in theirs and commit to raising taxes.

The Lib Dems manifesto is going to be somewhat odd, I think. Apparently the opening statement of it is not what you'd expect. The notes on the federal executive manifesto meeting were obviously very vague. There'll be good policy in there though - clear commitments on opposing hard Brexit and a referendum on the final deal, NHS policy, probably a commitment to reducing student loan repayment rates, stuff on housing, legalising cannabis, electoral reform. A lot of what you'd expect.

I think the Tories will have a very small and easy to understand manifesto, with few actual policy announcements. They'll be learning from Le Pen and Trump - no nuanced policy, just attacks and vague indications.

UKIP/Greens/SNP/PC probably won't make any real impact with theirs.

On the debate front, if ITV promote it and there's a bit of interest maybe it affects things, and it's probably Farron's best shot of introducing himself properly to the public - maybe ever, as he'd have to still be in the job in 2022 to have another go and that's centuries in politics.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
The manifestos will actually be somewhat important - if Labour can get back onto talking policy, they might be able to staunch the bleeding a bit. Reminding people why they vote Labour should help a bit. I'd expect Labour to spend a lot of money in theirs and commit to raising taxes.

The Lib Dems manifesto is going to be somewhat odd, I think. Apparently the opening statement of it is not what you'd expect. The notes on the federal executive manifesto meeting were obviously very vague. There'll be good policy in there though - clear commitments on opposing hard Brexit and a referendum on the final deal, NHS policy, probably a commitment to reducing student loan repayment rates, stuff on housing, legalising cannabis, electoral reform. A lot of what you'd expect.

I think the Tories will have a very small and easy to understand manifesto, with few actual policy announcements. They'll be learning from Le Pen and Trump - no nuanced policy, just attacks and vague indications.

UKIP/Greens/SNP/PC probably won't make any real impact with theirs.

On the debate front, if ITV promote it and there's a bit of interest maybe it affects things, and it's probably Farron's best shot of introducing himself properly to the public - maybe ever, as he'd have to still be in the job in 2022 to have another go and that's centuries in politics.
Click to expand...
The Tories will have "no new referendum". So they can point to their manifesto vs snp. Ignoring the fact that even the most optimistic result would put them far, far away in seats from the snp.

But the SNP are in a position where the only likely outcome is losing seats, much like the tories probably will be in 5 years.
 
R

Royal_Phalanx

Member
Acorn said:
The Tories will have "no new referendum". So they can point to their manifesto vs snp. Ignoring the fact that even the most optimistic result would put them far, far away in seats from the snp.

But the SNP are in a position where the only likely outcome is losing seats, much like the tories probably will be in 5 years.
Click to expand...

That's optimistic. More like 15.
 
P

Pandy

Member
JonathanEx said:
SNP Manifesto: Stop the tories, the tories, the tories. Aren't they bad, and we'll put wording about a referendum that tries not to be too harsh to not scare of the Nos but basically is 'when we feel like it'
Click to expand...
I know the tone of your whole post was super flippant, but this bit annoyed me.

The Scottish Government have already passed a motion calling for an independence referendum to be held after the point at which the outcomes of the Brexit negotiations are known, but before they are implemented.

The only reason the timing is as vague as that is because the Brexit talks don't have a set timetable, and even if they did the snap GE would have messed it up anyway. End 2018-early 2019 is as good a guess as anyone can make right now.

That a referendum is happening is already a settled matter as far as SNP policy is concerned, there will be no attempt to avoid scaring 'of the Nos' in that regard.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Pandy said:
I know the tone of your whole post was super flippant, but this bit annoyed me.

The Scottish Government have already passed a motion calling for an independence referendum to be held after the point at which the outcomes of the Brexit negotiations are known, but before they are implemented.

The only reason the timing is as vague as that is because the Brexit talks don't have a set timetable, and even if they did the snap GE would have messed it up anyway. End 2018-early 2019 is as good a guess as anyone can make right now.

That a referendum is happening is already a settled matter as far as SNP policy is concerned, there will be no attempt to avoid scaring 'of the Nos' in that regard.
Click to expand...

All very fair - I guess what drunk flippant Jon was considering was:
- How much will they push on the referendum as their main thing vs Challenging the Tories, if they'll more focus on that as the challenge to broaden their appeal. More about messaging than policy.
- Would any language on another referendum have wiggle room about specific conditions, which isn't a terrible idea considering how much things are changing. As you say the motion has been passed - but I'm personally not sure if it'll take place then or what'll change about it.
 
M

Melchettsmoustache

Member
Pandy said:
I know the tone of your whole post was super flippant, but this bit annoyed me.

The Scottish Government have already passed a motion calling for an independence referendum to be held after the point at which the outcomes of the Brexit negotiations are known, but before they are implemented.

The only reason the timing is as vague as that is because the Brexit talks don't have a set timetable, and even if they did the snap GE would have messed it up anyway. End 2018-early 2019 is as good a guess as anyone can make right now.

That a referendum is happening is already a settled matter as far as SNP policy is concerned, there will be no attempt to avoid scaring 'of the Nos' in that regard.
Click to expand...

CLearly they have passed a motion to have the second Indy ref, it was however just pushed through by the greens and yesterday's increase in Tory council votes allied with the libdem and labour votes still show a clear majority voting for unionist parties.

The SNP have an issue if the torys bring the same turnout to the GE as it will strengthen Mays hand to decline the indyref pointing to roughly 60% of votes for unionist parties. (Based on yesterday's votes)

Sturgeon needs to be seen to be the voice of all of the people rather than the rhetoric of the minority. If she intends to win back support she needs to be seen to be doing her day job better because outside the echo chamber of Indy support the consensus seems to be do your day job better.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
cjp said:
Can someone explain to me how the Conservatives can claim record funding in the NHS when looking at the below table?

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/375/c...n/_94223385_nhs_govt_spending_slowdown_v3.png

I'm obviously missing something. Are they saying if post 2015 was shown on that table it would be the highest on there?

Edit: oh, wait. I think I get it now.
Click to expand...

For the avoidance of any doubt, the Y axis represents spending growth. As long as it's above 0 (and it is), then spending in growing in absolute terms. With inflation (especially in health care) this might mean it's going down in real terms, but when Cameron and co road to power under the promise of austerity they promised not to cut health spending and, by the books, they didn't.
 
P

pswii60

Member
CyclopsRock said:
For the avoidance of any doubt, the Y axis represents spending growth. As long as it's above 0 (and it is), then spending in growing in absolute terms. With inflation (especially in health care) this might mean it's going down in real terms, but when Cameron and co road to power under the promise of austerity they promised not to cut health spending and, by the books, they didn't.
Click to expand...
Austerity to reduce the deficit hasn't been some big conspiracy, it was the whole "we're in it together" mantra back in 2010. And obviously it's the reason for the cuts in police to the lower than inflation growth in NHS spending. But the austerity ultimately led our services to breaking point, coupled with high immigration adding further pressure, and it's no surprise why Brexit is happening. A perfect storm of shit.

But leaving the EU will likely fuck with our economy to a point that we'll need even further cuts to services, unless we want to get back to the deficit of 2009. So I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel. And the NHS will be a major victim.
Jackpot said:
A 99p flake worth £2.40? The times we live in.
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They were never 99p! That's not the reason for the name. And it's 4 for 1.99 at my local Asda right now so not sure how that is a deal! Not that I would ever step foot in an Asda, or have a local one.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I think we - people in their twenties mostly - all happen to have been old enough to remember when by sheer coincidence they were a quid and as such assumed that was the reason for the name. But it seems they've been around since at least the 1930s when 99p would have bought you half of Newcastle. (Obviously that would be £4.80 in today's money.)
 
T

travisbickle

Member
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Dan27 said:
Corbyn, and the people he surrounds himself with, are nowhere near competent enough to run this country. They have a track record of not being able to run their party cohesively and in harmony. Regardless of the policies, this collective group of people utterly disqualifies a vote for Labour for me. And I suspect this is the case for thousands of other voters.
Click to expand...

The truth. Can't even run their own party let alone a country in such tremulous times. A lot of my Uni friends are voting Tory now. Current Labour government would be a disservice to this country.
 
P

Pixieking

Banned
Psycho_Mantis said:
The truth. Can't even run their own party let alone a country in such tremulous times. A lot of my Uni friends are voting Tory now. Current Labour government would be a disservice to this country.
Click to expand...

I don't understand this... Surely anyone who would vote Labour but doesn't want to because of Corbyn would actually vote LibDem? Unless Brexit policy is the key to them flipping, I don't see why they'd vote Conservative.

That said, I can actually see it happening, because this would be the UK version of Obama-Trump voters.
 
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