Musha_Soturi
Member
Atheist - I don't believe in god
Anti-theist - I don't believe in god and no one else should either because religion is ridiculous and dangerous and inherently evil
Big difference
UK/R.O.I GAF - Thread of geopolitical confusion
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Atheist - I don't believe in god
Anti-theist - I don't believe in god and no one else should either because religion is ridiculous and dangerous and inherently evil
Big difference
StealthGoblin
Banned
Do golf players actively try and make everyone a golf player? Do they fight and destroy peoples lives in the name of golf? There is evidence for golf existing. There is no evidence of God existing. Golf players do not claim to be the source of morality. There aren't people holding degrees in Golf that people turn to when they do not know the answer.
I would say I am very open minded. Find some evidence for something that I do not believe in or do not believe can happen and I'll change my mind, subject to it fulfilling the scientific method.
You know what has always got on my goat? Thomas (the Apostle) has the negative epithet 'Doubting Thomas' despite being the only rational person in the bunch post crucifixion.
Jailbroke and unlocked my old iPhone 2G, so the bugger works with my current Orange sim. The glass screen is shattered, yet it still works as a touchscreen. Wonderful old handset. That and the 3G/S are the best Apple ever made. Have Nokia-level build quality. Probably the best phone I've ever owned, even including my technically superior HTC Sensation.
But most of what people consider atheists are gnostic atheists, they say "I'll believe in God once there is evidence" rather than strictly believing there is no god, no way.
That's not what agnosticism is.
But most of what people consider atheists are gnostic atheists, they say "I'll believe in God once there is evidence" rather than strictly believing there is no god, no way.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Indeed, there is a scale from 1 to 7.
1. Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
2. De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
3. Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
4. Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
5. Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
6. De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
7. Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.
Dawkins says he is a 6.9 on that scale. He says he can't prove God doesn't exist, but the probability of God existing is infinitesimally small.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Scientists label things. That is what we do. We discover things, find out how they work and label them. To try to escape from that is to try and escape from science.
He's too much of a fence sitter for me.
As a scientist, he'll take on all the baggage associated with that. Sounds to me like he can't be bothered with those arguments.
Probably why I can relate to him.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I find ambivalence in these matters to be seriously neglectful. People die because of religion, children are indoctrinated because of religion, people waste time and money because of religion etc.
Not giving a shit is about as moral as standing by and watching someone get abused. Of all mankinds creations, religion has carried out and continues to carry out crimes abhorrent to rational thought and survives because it promotes ignorance.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Shit, Buzzcocks is still on? I take it they're still host-less. :/
Nope!
Just started again last night, watching because Mark Hoppus was on, and yeah, Kathy Burke was the host last night.
Gah!
EDIT: Was it some sort of celebrity/comedy panel show?
EDIT 2: In fact, did somebody already guess it?
Hot Coldman
Banned
Recent Buzzcocks directly contributed to my realisation of who the talented one in the Mighty Boosh was. (So did Nathan Barley.) It's sad! I actually really liked Amstell. He was great at taking the piss- Lamarr never got anyone to storm off set. Sad to see it turn into crap.
As long as I can cry wank while I watch.
Nope and nope.
I'll tell anyone interested just before it broadcasts, which is currently scheduled for late October.
Maybe he's like me - I don't believe in organised religion and I don't know enough (obviously, or I'd be some kind of prophet) to know what the answers are, so I choose not to waste my time searching for answers that I'll never find.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Even if you don't want to find out the answers, I still can't see a good enough reason not to argue against religion in all its forms. The evil far exceeds the good it does.
I'm a teacher so its built into me to search for answers and teach people to be open minded. The children leave 'their religion' at the door and inside my classroom its all about asking big questions and being open minded.
If there is one thing I am big on, it is critical thinking.
Had an interesting chat with a 6 year old the other day. We had just finished a lesson on the Christian creation myth and were asking big questions or things they'd like to know.
One child asked how old the earth is. I told him the biblical age and the scientific age. He then asked 'if [what the bible] says isn't true then how much of it is true?' Good question lad. Keep asking those questions throughout your life.
Collectively, I think society will get there eventually. There is hope in the next generation.
That was utterly fantastic.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Seeing a picture of Jeremy Hunt next to your posts is making them really hard to agree with, Galvanise. Even the Cyberman was somehow better for persuasion purposes
StealthGoblin
Banned
That reminds me, I need a new avatar. No idea what though.
THAT'S what makes him hard to agree with?!
I never go into the religion debate threads (generally try to stay away from debate threads in general, they just go in fucking circles) but I hope everyone can be as rational as Galvanise, that kind of thinking's what we need more of.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Oh I have my own opinions about this subject, no doubt, but it's a subject I'm way more comfortable discussing in person than on the internet.
And I'd at least need a couple of drinks first.
Yeah, I find it's generally best for me to not discuss religion with people I don't know VERY well because it invariably ends in argument.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
I'd have to stop taking warfarin as well. Dying from a subdural hematoma isn't how ruff ryders roll.
I tend to only stay in the MMA thread on my recent travels around GAF. I'm working on a lot of web development right now that's soaking up pretty much all of my spare time.
That reminds me, I need a new avatar. No idea what though.
I posted one on the previous page.
BGBW where do you live and what do you do?
The average UK binge drinker could have any MMA fighter if they looked at them funny. Stay in UK-GAF - we'll keep you tough.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
I have found myself developing an addiction to collecting Lego Minifigures :-/
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
Ow wow, you guys really went at it last night didn't you? For me religion is a bit like football in that it's something that other people are into, is vaguely annoying but I manage to shut it out 99% of the time.
But I find militant atheist/antitheists probably more annoying that religious people. Unless you're coming from a religious background and are actively rebelling, I don't see why it should affect you. Ambivalence is the way forward, people. Just like football or politics, it has very little impact on my day to day existence.
And also, while religion is certainly responsible for a lot of wrongs in the world, 99% of religious people are normal folks like you or I who just happen to find comfort in a story. Let them have their comfort, why do atheists feel the need to rain on their parades?
But I find militant atheist/antitheists probably more annoying that religious people. Unless you're coming from a religious background and are actively rebelling, I don't see why it should affect you. Ambivalence is the way forward, people. Just like football or politics, it has very little impact on my day to day existence.
And also, while religion is certainly responsible for a lot of wrongs in the world, 99% of religious people are normal folks like you or I who just happen to find comfort in a story. Let them have their comfort, why do atheists feel the need to rain on their parades?
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Pre-warfarin I was, technically speaking, both.
Basically my stance, but with the exception that I can't seem to ignore people and let it go when I really REALLY want to.
Musha_Soturi
Member
This, a hundred times this. I have really offended people before now because of my opinions. Sometimes it's worth it to find one other person who agrees though.
I collect Star Wars minifigure keyrings. Cannot go in a lego shop without buying one.
Right. Normal. So the thousands and thousands of people protesting against the Mohammad video, rioting, vandalising, burning, killing, this is normal behaviour? It's not just the small handful of fundamentalists that cause problems. When members of a country's government offer a reward for a man's murder, then we have a problem.
Totally in agreement on this - it's probably why I keep getting into the arguments.
It's thousands of people, but still a vast minority. Same with any religion - most people Christians, Jewish people, Buddhists, whathaveyou are perfectly normal people with different beliefs and I have no problem with them or their beliefs, I can have a calm rational discussion and happily learn about those beliefs, which I find very interesting.
But obviously there are a small percentage (yes, tens of thousands of people overall) who either take a negative stance on their religion such as the riots you're talking about, or try to shove their beliefs down everybody elses throats.
I honestly don't really think this Mohammah video bullshit is really much to do with religion as much as it is to do with world politics and the cultural east-west divide anyway, but that's a whole other matter.
Best side of London and I like to Do the Mario.
I've been collecting those since series 1, but I've managed to just stick to the ones I want rather than trying to get them all. I do sometimes pick up a blind bag now and then. Unfortunately I have a few duplicates.
I'm with you on all of that. There is no God, but I've known a lot of religious people growing up of different faiths who are all lovely and nice and caring people and no one ever tried to preach their beliefs to me, so I'd never want to do the same to them.
In conclusion, fuck Reddit.
You know what gets me about religion, It's that it's judgemental. Person A who follows religion B will always get scrutinized by his/her religious peers based on their actions.
"Oh! you support abortions? You're gay? You don't agree with [insert messiah/prophet here]'s point of view? you can't do that! It's blasphemous!" hmm, weird. I always thought it was God that judges a person at the end of the day. Does that mean religious people are higher than Go-? oh snap, I'm treading on thin ice here.
I don't hate religion. I actually find it interesting and would love to learn and take part in different religious practises around the world. I just seem to have this habit of putting reason over belief. A number of family members/friends are religious (I say religious but they use it more as an identity then anything else. They got a job, swear a lot, crack dirty jokes and have a laugh. They aren't hardcore at it) and they are the most honest, nicest people I know who have helped me a lot during my child/young adulthood. While I don't mind discussing religious topics with someone in real life, I rarely ever talk about it online. Just feels like it goes nowhere and they (or sometimes I) get worked up for nothing. It's not worth the hassle really.
At the end of the day, a religious person who supports noble causes (even if it contradicts their belief) is a far better person than a religious person who talks hate shit and kills/murder. That's how I see it anyway.
anywhooo, I hate driving through morning rush hour. With crazy drivers, cyclists and pedestrians (runners) out and about, I always feel like an accident is going to happen one of these days. I was unpacking my PC and 360 last night and discovered that I forgot to pack my 360 power pack and cable so I won't be able to play Resident Evil 6 when it's out next week I'll have to wait until I go back to my parent's house in the middle of October.
"Oh! you support abortions? You're gay? You don't agree with [insert messiah/prophet here]'s point of view? you can't do that! It's blasphemous!" hmm, weird. I always thought it was God that judges a person at the end of the day. Does that mean religious people are higher than Go-? oh snap, I'm treading on thin ice here.
I don't hate religion. I actually find it interesting and would love to learn and take part in different religious practises around the world. I just seem to have this habit of putting reason over belief. A number of family members/friends are religious (I say religious but they use it more as an identity then anything else. They got a job, swear a lot, crack dirty jokes and have a laugh. They aren't hardcore at it) and they are the most honest, nicest people I know who have helped me a lot during my child/young adulthood. While I don't mind discussing religious topics with someone in real life, I rarely ever talk about it online. Just feels like it goes nowhere and they (or sometimes I) get worked up for nothing. It's not worth the hassle really.
At the end of the day, a religious person who supports noble causes (even if it contradicts their belief) is a far better person than a religious person who talks hate shit and kills/murder. That's how I see it anyway.
anywhooo, I hate driving through morning rush hour. With crazy drivers, cyclists and pedestrians (runners) out and about, I always feel like an accident is going to happen one of these days. I was unpacking my PC and 360 last night and discovered that I forgot to pack my 360 power pack and cable so I won't be able to play Resident Evil 6 when it's out next week
I'll have to wait until I go back to my parent's house in the middle of October.
He's already got plenty in his warchest!
My favourite MMA fighter of all time. Love watching this Dutch/English bastard fight.
blahblah...blah
Member
The problem with ambivalence in the face of nonsensical views is it allows the extremists within a given group to flourish. This is not just true of religious people, but it does apply especially strongly to their case.
Jedeye Sniv
Banned
But those guys ARE extremist idiots giving a billion people a bad name. I've seen those protests but I'm also very aware of the media and its ability to distort reality. Remember the protests in London a few years back where those people were smashing windows. A handful of violent idiots, 10 at most, surrounded by 50 cameraman and photographers. What we see if not always what is happening.
And wrt angry muslims, did you also see the counter protests (which, by all accounts dwarfed the extremists) saying 'not in our name'? Vastly underreported since there isn't an angry bearded brown man promising death to infidels.
And also wrt Islam, I think there is a major issue where extremists are more motivated by their hatred of the west than their religion per se. Religion is an excuse IMO, but their political stance has a logic to it that we as westerners can't really understand. This is not to say I excuse them at all but it's so much more complicated than religion=bad.
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