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[Tirael]

Way more dignified of a response than it deserved.

To D2RK:

*Hit stun needs tweaking for certain characters and in general needs to kick in harder when something like cr.L is used to start (or certain moves like FOOT DIVE). For particular characters, harder combos should reward appropriately (for someone like Shuma it's fine, for someone like Chun Li and Sentinel it's grossly disproportionate).

*OTG costing meter is dumb. Has to be a troll. Might as well ask for launchers to cost meters too along with wall bounces and ground bounces. TAC costing meter on the hand is a much better request.

*Throws are fine for most characters but it needs to be more generalized as in certain situations a character can't get ANYTHING from a throw while others can get a TOD in that same situation. Damage scaling for some need fixing, Spencer/Zero/Viper are red flags in this area.

*Punishing zoning is dumb, rushdown is still the dominant play style.

*TODs are fine as long as they are on Strider class healths and require high execution. TODs on 1 million health starting off 0 meter no assists need tweaking.

*WAY TOO EARLY FOR MAJOR PATCHES. I wouldn't want one until at least after EVO.

I agree with all of this, especially the comboing after throws being completely different from character to character. However, here's a couple crazy ideas.

Make TAC slightly easier to read when you want to counter it. Locally, it's already a guessing game, online it's a joke.

Tone down X-factor bonuses some more. I'm fine with the mechanic, it's just stupidly powerful right now. XF3 and some XF2 BNB's equal dead character, and that's just stupid.

The most ridiculously broken thing I wish they would change right now is Zero's Lightning. I think that if he cancels it with Buster, the lightning should go away unless he's already traveled the distance. His crossup shenanigans are absolutely stupid, the person doing it doesn't even have to know if he crosses you up or not. And in some cases, crossing you up or not crossing you up is only a difference of a few fractions of a second on incoming characters.

Also, buff lower tier, Hsien-ko, Haggar, etc. Which leads me to my next point.

- All characters should have at least one sensible OTG that scales things accordingly depending on the ease with which they work. (snip)

- ToDs can go, but not via artificial means. If you're doing shit that requires dexterity for the sake of the damage, cool you keep the damage but you won't get free KOs off it. Shit like ABCS-MMHS-df.H xx Hyper though? Fuck outta here. :lol

Yes, if some characters had a halfway decent OTG, they'd be much more viable. Would making Hsien-ko's cr.H or Viewtiful Joe's Red Hot Kick M OTG break them? Would it really?

Crazy wish that perhaps fixes the second point: I would give everyone about 50% more health. (A little less for less-health characters, a little more for the higher ones.) In a perfect world, this wouldn't make matches go on forever because people would be more ballsy and stick out risky stuff.

More characters. I want more characters.

Also this. I just want like four more. X and Gene on the Capcom side, I don't care on the Marvel side.

 

[IntelliHeath]

More characters. I want more characters.

I know people don't want more characters but I do want more characters because Niitsuma mention there was 8 characters that got shaved off from final product. I want those last 8 characters then I will stop asking for more. I prefer to see games receiving their goal amount of characters than cut it off because they want to release it for Holiday.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yet no one uses him for a reason. He sucks compared to characters that win without the gimmicks ad just exploit the stupid system.

If you have actually played the game for more than 5 minutes then you would know that Firebrand does not suck and is more than an excellent character even without his "gimmick". I would had him in A tier even without the unblockable set up. He has an excellent match up record against most of the top tiers in the game INCLUDING Zero, Viper and Wesker.

Firebrand exploits the system just as well as any other character. People don't use him because they have not been exposed to what he is capable of yet and all they see is low health/low damage (laughable in this game... everyone dies in 2 combos from anyone). It's still only a few months in for him, I compare him to MVC2 Magneto in terms of how long it will take for people to get comfortable with him (Magneto didn't start winning stuff until around a year of the game's release when people figured out that the ROM wasn't just a gimmick).

I don't know why but Ghost Rider seems to give Hawkeye some trouble.

Hawkeye and most other zoning characters own Ghost Rider for free.

DAT Vergil @ 2:23:00

So apparently Justin came back from Round 1 to take WNF in a colossal final set with Combofiend. Too bad we missed the Marvel action due to SFxTekken. Hopefully this guy will upload some matches: http://www.youtube.com/user/striderzer0?feature=watch

Justin's new team is Nova/Frank/Felicia. I like this team, two lock down assists plus a low hitting assist for Nova. Nova into Frank is an EASY mode LVL4/LVL5 and with that Frank can do unblockables all day with Felicia. Plus Dark Felicia at the back is CHEAP as fuck. I still wish he keeps his Iron Fist team though, I want to see the IF LVL3 at EVO big screen as PROMISED!

 

[Grecco]

Firebrands damage is shit. Theres no way around that.

When there is another character that can 300% a team off of a cr.L... that will be the day when Firebrand is deemed overrated.

Has it happened in a US Major? Will it ever happen in this games life time?


Overrated character.

 

[Dahbomb]

Firebrands damage is shit. Theres no way around that.

Has it happened in a US Major? Will it ever happen in this games life time?

Overrated character.

So this is your rebuttal to the argument... that it hasn't been done in a major?

What if it IS done in a major... what will you say then?

And for the record it has been done in a major. SorCal regionals Flocker vs Chrisis. Chrisis eliminated Flocker using Firebrand + Strider pseudo-unblockable set up. Also Firebrand is all over in the Japanese scene, people use unblockables with Firebrand all day over there.

Like Viscant said, if you deduct character worth based on what you see in streams... then that is just dumb.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Justin's new team is Nova/Frank/Felicia. I like this team, two lock down assists plus a low hitting assist for Nova. Nova into Frank is an EASY mode LVL4/LVL5 and with that Frank can do unblockables all day with Felicia. Plus Dark Felicia at the back is CHEAP as fuck. I still wish he keeps his Iron Fist team though, I want to see the IF LVL3 at EVO big screen as PROMISED!

Shades of Vanilla when both Combofiend and Justin played She-Hulk with Justin's She-Hulk being his second team. I actually use this team. Except I put Dark Wesker in the back instead.

 

[LakeEarth]

Thanks for the advice Dahbomb, I forgot you could make helmbreaker safe.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

i give Task the edge over Clint.

 

[LakeEarth]

I always had a problem opening people up with Hawkeye, but I saw Combo using the H maneuvers to crossup and do ice. It works really nice against people who are just waiting to punish that slide.

 

[DR2K]

If you have actually played the game for more than 5 minutes then you would know that Firebrand does not suck and is more than an excellent character even without his "gimmick". I would had him in A tier even without the unblockable set up. He has an excellent match up record against most of the top tiers in the game INCLUDING Zero, Viper and Wesker.

Firebrand exploits the system just as well as any other character. People don't use him because they have not been exposed to what he is capable of yet and all they see is low health/low damage (laughable in this game... everyone dies in 2 combos from anyone). It's still only a few months in for him, I compare him to MVC2 Magneto in terms of how long it will take for people to get comfortable with him (Magneto didn't start winning stuff until around a year of the game's release when people figured out that the ROM wasn't just a gimmick).

People know what he can do, you think it were that easy to land his jab into 300% he would be a staple of every team. The whole cast has been explored enough to know who can exploit the system the best, Marvel isn't as deep as some of you pretend it is. It really does boil down to the simple ABCs most of the time.

 

[Azure J]

People know what he can do, you think it were that easy to land his jab into 300% he would be a staple of every team. The whole cast has been explored enough to know who can exploit the system the best, Marvel isn't as deep as some of you pretend it is. It really does boil down to the simple ABCs most of the time.

May I ask you what fighting games you've played and enjoyed that are "deeper" than Marvel 3 then and your reasons behind them? I'm genuinely curious, especially given the turn of events in the last page or so. No one here has suggested that the game is deep (although how you can suggest as much between everything in there already is kinda weird in the first place) but everyone here is clearly enjoying themselves more than you are with this title.

 

[Master Milk]

How do you guys feel about Phoenix on a legit team? How is she as anchor, second, and point? Could it work, or is she too much of a liability?

Do you guys see any Phoenixes when you play?

 

[Dahbomb]

Submitted some stuff to FlyingVe on SRK for the next Vergil Round Trip video. Apparently people think that you can beat the RT mix ups with advancing guard (HAH!). Hopefully some of my additions make it in.

People know what he can do, you think it were that easy to land his jab into 300% he would be a staple of every team. The whole cast has been explored enough to know who can exploit the system the best, Marvel isn't as deep as some of you pretend it is. It really does boil down to the simple ABCs most of the time.

No one in their right mind (even pro players) have claimed that this game is even 25% explored. Except you of course, I am sure you have put in more hours on the game than Fanatiq, MarlinPie, ChrisG and the other pros who constantly are in the lab finding new stuff and changing the meta game. I constantly play just one character in this game and I am still finding new stuff on him and sharing it... and even with my single character I have not tapped into 50% of his potential.

Tier list and character worth has been changing for this game on essentially a weekly basis. About a month or 2 ago Morrigan was garbage and Phoenix (Jean) was top tier... not so much anymore. I am sure once Justin shows off his new team people are going to jump back on the Nova/Felicia bandwagon again because that's what people do.

How do you guys feel about Phoenix on a legit team? How is she as anchor, second, and point? Could it work, or is she too much of a liability?

How do you guys feel about Phoenix on a legit team? How is she as anchor, second, and point? Could it work, or is she too much of a liability?

Do you guys see any Phoenixes when you play?

Legit team? We are talking about JEAN here right? She is pretty much exclusively an anchor character unless if you are asking if you want to play regular Phoenix and not save 5 bars for Dark.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

i beat most Jean Teams now, she relies far more on her teamates now.

 

[Dahbomb]

I believe that once more players get used to using the TAC anti-Phoenix tech that her impact on the meta game will be lessened. Her usage will be that of a B tier character... ie you definitely need a good team built around her and not just throw her with 2 good characters you play as.

 

[Master Milk]

Yea, I'm asking more about regular than dark. I know dark still rapes everything.

 

[Dahbomb]

Maybe you can do something with Jean on point plus Hidden Missiles and Morigan Dark Harmonizer. Spam Healing Fields and the Missiles to inflate your health and do teleport mix ups plus salty balls. If you get her killed... hey at least you got Morrigan with a ton of meter plus Hidden Missiles.

 

[mashingkeys]

UMvC3 Magneto hypergrav loop with j.S by RayRay

Also by liquid metal a couple of weeks ago

 

[Professor Beef]

Do you guys see any Phoenixes when you play?

I don't see any Phoenixes because apparently my vision goes away when i face them. Only one of us comes out alive in the end.

 

[SolarPowered]

More characters. I want more characters.

This plz

I know people don't want more characters but I do want more characters because Niitsuma mention there was 8 characters that got shaved off from final product. I want those last 8 characters then I will stop asking for more. I prefer to see games receiving their goal amount of characters than cut it off because they want to release it for Holiday.

I kinda think Mahvel is dead for the remainder of this generation. I'd be happy with just eight at this point because I honestly think they've pissed off too many people.

ugh

May I ask you what fighting games you've played and enjoyed that are "deeper" than Marvel 3 then and your reasons behind them? I'm genuinely curious, especially given the turn of events in the last page or so. No one here has suggested that the game is deep (although how you can suggest as much between everything in there already is kinda weird in the first place) but everyone here is clearly enjoying themselves more than you are with this title.

I think I enjoy the game more than he does. That is a clear sign to bail out and find something else.

 

[DR2K]

i beat most Jean Teams now, she relies far more on her teamates now.

The one fireball in the air killed her more than anything, also traps and balls dissappearing when she got hit sucked, she absolutely needed that to cover her health. DP was the huge issue, not regular Jean. They totally nerfed her in the worst way. She was basically replaced with Wesker. She's still good, just not as useful or fun to play as.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

Speaking of Phoenix's, does anyone wanna play against my Phoenix team?

 

[DR2K]

May I ask you what fighting games you've played and enjoyed that are "deeper" than Marvel 3 then and your reasons behind them? I'm genuinely curious, especially given the turn of events in the last page or so. No one here has suggested that the game is deep (although how you can suggest as much between everything in there already is kinda weird in the first place) but everyone here is clearly enjoying themselves more than you are with this title.

I don't enjoy depth for the sake of depth, I just don't find MVC3 series as a whole that complex. It's the vibe that I'm getting here. If i want something rich and complex that relies less on exploiting broken system mechancis and an actual balanced cast with hit boxes and frames that make sense I'd just play VF. (which I will this summer)

No one in their right mind (even pro players) have claimed that this game is even 25% explored. Except you of course, I am sure you have put in more hours on the game than Fanatiq, MarlinPie, ChrisG and the other pros who constantly are in the lab finding new stuff and changing the meta game. I constantly play just one character in this game and I am still finding new stuff on him and sharing it... and even with my single character I have not tapped into 50% of his potential.

Tier list and character worth has been changing for this game on essentially a weekly basis. About a month or 2 ago Morrigan was garbage and Phoenix (Jean) was top tier... not so much anymore. I am sure once Justin shows off his new team people are going to jump back on the Nova/Felicia bandwagon again because that's what people do.

How do you guys feel about Phoenix on a legit team? How is she as anchor, second, and point? Could it work, or is she too much of a liability?

You know they're still saying the same shit about MVC2. When in actuality once the god 4 and friends were discovered you had your cast, the rest boiled down to disvoering the mechanics. Fightig games in general just evolve faster these days and all the major things are discovered early on. Overall the game is not changing, the Wesker/Doom teams are not going anywhere, and the same stragies will still be dominant throughout tournament play. Regardless of the number of oddball character combinations that work together.

Side note: Lets not use the guy who won tournaments with Megaman/Servbot/Roll as a litmus test for discovering character potential. lol

 

[Sixfortyfive]

And for the record it has been done in a major. SorCal regionals Flocker vs Chrisis. Chrisis eliminated Flocker using Firebrand + Strider pseudo-unblockable set up.

Chrisis knocked him into losers, where Flocker won the runback.

I have a friend who plays both Firebrand and Skrull semi-competently, yet he won't build his team around the unblockable setup no matter how much I tell him that he's an idiot for not utilizing it.

 

[Frantic]

I said I was thinking about making a Strider video, so I did. Just a quick video featuring some of my Strider resets. He's got others(loads others) but these are just the simplest. They work really well from my experience.

 

[IntelliHeath]

This plz

I kinda think Mahvel is dead for the remainder of this generation. I'd be happy with just eight at this point because I honestly think they've pissed off too many people.

ugh

I think I enjoy the game more than he does. That is a clear sign to bail out and find something else.

Well, It's dead. imo I don't think we will ever get those last 8 characters but I wish tho.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I said I was thinking about making a Strider video, so I did. Just a quick video featuring some of my Strider resets. He's got others(loads others) but these are just the simplest. They work really well from my experience.

Very nice! A helpful look at simple but effective ways for Strider to exploit the hard knockdown state. I like it when things are explained in a more granular way rather than running through a dozen different techniques in the space of 30 seconds. It's more important to understand each setup in its entirety before trying to add something else to your toolbox, IMO.

 

[Grecco]

So this is your rebuttal to the argument... that it hasn't been done in a major?

What if it IS done in a major... what will you say then?

And for the record it has been done in a major. SorCal regionals Flocker vs Chrisis. Chrisis eliminated Flocker using Firebrand + Strider pseudo-unblockable set up. Also Firebrand is all over in the Japanese scene, people use unblockables with Firebrand all day over there.

Like Viscant said, if you deduct character worth based on what you see in streams... then that is just dumb.

yes thats my rebutal because essentially the reason you say hes not overrated is because of the unblocable gimmick.


Btw funny you should mention Chrisis, since he droped Firebrand like a bad habit. Basically because his damage is low and he sucks "getting in".

The 2 people who were using Firebrand at SCR, Chris G and Chrisis realized how much he sucks and replaced him with superior characters. (Wesker/Zero)

 

[crimsonspider89]

Huh? This game is nowhere near being explored and the only character who still uses the standard ABC combo in tourneys now is Logan/Wesker. And Wesker's better combos don't use that system.

You do realize you can run Firebrand/IM with repulsor and set up the unblockable that way? Then pick who you want to run the repulsor with as well.

EDIT: FB has trouble getting in? EVERYTHING HE DOES IS SAFE AND HE HAS ONE OF THE BEST FLIGHTS as well as a great c.L

The reason Chrisis dropped him was due to him experimenting with ZVS and realizing it was much deadlier.

 

[Azure J]

I said I was thinking about making a Strider video, so I did. Just a quick video featuring some of my Strider resets. He's got others(loads others) but these are just the simplest. They work really well from my experience.

There's just something about the way Strider moves that makes me love the damn ninja so much. These resets are so stolen btw.

 

[sephi22]

I said I was thinking about making a Strider video, so I did. Just a quick video featuring some of my Strider resets. He's got others(loads others) but these are just the simplest. They work really well from my experience.

That music... its from the Morrigan combo video. Thief!

 

[smurfx]

OMFG!!! if i team hyper with haggar it lets me reset them with haggars air hoodlum launcher thanks to zero's rekkoha hyper! have to investigate this further but omg this pretty much means death for any character. :O

edit: hahaha i just did it in a match! the doom player used footdive but haggar crossed him up and still hoodlum launched his ass.

 

[Dahbomb]

yes thats my rebutal because essentially the reason you say hes not overrated is because of the unblocable gimmick.

No the reason why I think he is not overrated is because he has godly air mobility, air zoning options with high durability fireballs, one of the best jabs in the game (4 frame with +5 on block with insane range), slide, high priority dive kick, a horizontal dive move with very good priority, devious mix ups including an unreactable instant overhead plus right/lefts, safe approaches, one of the best utility/install hypers in the game, ability to combo off of hit confirm from SJ height, sick pressure game, excellent match ups and Bon Voyage allows him to do raw tag combos for TODs. There are more factors but most of this is enough to put him in A. The unblockable set up might put him over the top into S but at the very least A+.

You think he is overrated because he has low damage and isn't a popular pick.

Btw funny you should mention Chrisis, since he droped Firebrand like a bad habit. Basically because his damage is low and he sucks "getting in".

Chrisis still plays Firebrand and thinks he is S tier godly (and has said this on multiple occasions). He just picked up Zero to try him out but still firmly believes in Firebrand's might. If you don't believe me go to SRK and ask him about the character on the tier list thread. Also to him Firebrand's low damage doesn't matter because on his team he can TOD off of a Firebrand hit. In addition Firebrand having trouble "getting in" has to be a troll.

The 2 people who were using Firebrand at SCR, Chris G and Chrisis realized how much he sucks and replaced him with superior characters. (Wesker/Zero)

ChrisG's Firebrand was fraudulent, no offense. It's like those people who picked up Vergil and dropped him because they sucked with him. Now you are going to tell me Vergil isn't A tier either because X pro player dropped him? Oh boy I bet Wolverine sucks now too because Justin dropped him as well. I really don't see how people bring up "this person changed the character so it must suck" argument. Please rate characters on tools and strength, not popularity.

Big Marcus uses Firebrand + Super Skrull too by the way. And he has the unblockable set up down pat. We might see him at UFGT. I really think it's a matter of time until someone smokes a "top player" with the set up in a high stakes match and people + commentators lose their shit over it.

 

[Kadey]

Who is going to play?

 

[Degen]

i'm down to fight for soulcalibur's honor

 

[A Pretty Panda]

SENators

These are almost as good as all of those Jeremy Lin puns.

 

[Kadey]

PS3 lobby up in a few.

Lobby is up.

http://www.twitch.tv/kadeybaybe

 

[Killa Sasa]

Mostly in order -- played to potential, and without ease of use as a significant determining factor (if something is "too hard" in this game, hard to say what it is -- who would even sniff MvC2 Dhalsim in this?).

S TIER

Dante, Zero, Viper, Dormammu

A+ TIER

Magneto, Firebrand, Strider, Vergil, Felicia, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Super Skrull

A TIER

Amaterasu, Trish, Wesker, Doom, Jill, X-23, Morrigan, Hawkeye, Deadpool, Akuma, MODOK,

B+ TIER

Rocket Raccoon, Spencer, Taskmaster, Chris, Ryu, Dr Strange, Frank West, Phoenix, Storm, Nova

B TIER

Viewtiful Joe, Haggar, Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Nemesis, Iron Fist

C+ TIER

Sentinel, Ghost Rider, Iron Man, She Hulk

C TIER

Chun Li, Arthur, Tron,

D TIER

Hsien Ko, Shuma Gorath, Phoenix Wright


Everyone except Phoenix Wright is viable, and everyone except him you should have a sense of urgency to kill when properly set up.

If I had my way, A would start from S to Strange, B would be everyone from Frank to Chun, C for the rest except Phoenix Wright who gets his own.

Usual suspects like Wesker, Doom, Sent, Spencer, Task are lower than you'll see on most because they are hella easy to read -- people just push too many buttons, and they're all fairly ass anchors IMO. All of them require discipline to beat, and can put you in bad situations, but if you get cracked by them, you deserve to get hurt.

Maybe most of the salt associated with these characters come from online play, where they're decidedly more bullshit. But if you're still losing to Level 3 Wesker offline, you need to step your shit up. His welcome mixup is scary -- that's it. It happens to everyone, but that's Marvel 3, and there was probably way cheaper stuff happening in the match before that. There's plenty of better anchors too. These 5 are probably the most overrated characters too (save Sentinel - don't think many say he's good anymore His place would be taken by Morrigan with the "She's top 5; how do I deal with fireballs" tripe some people spout).

Auto-mixup with 'ports is still running shit, so this list takes in mind once people get used to seeing it. Really surprised at the lack of defense in this regard among the general MvC3 community.

PS. Dormammu is Mr. Flying Under the Radar. THAT's a ridiculous (but mostly well balanced) character.

 

[Degen]

PS3 lobby up in a few.

Lobby is up.

http://www.twitch.tv/kadeybaybe

some sort of "password" of some sort

 

[Kadey]

Refresh until it's good.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

PS3 lobby up in a few.

Lobby is up.

http://www.twitch.tv/kadeybaybe

Kadey, I can't bother you in the stream chat if the thing is locked.

 

[Tobe]

what is this password nonsense im a mod goddamit!!!!

so i just poke/refresh it until it works?

 

[Cloudius12]

Channel is private.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Why is the channel private? D:

 

[A Pretty Panda]

The password must have something to do with Fubar.

edit- oh lawd a "Mighty Lord"

 

[Dahbomb]

Sentinel C+ is interesting... care to elaborate and discuss? Also Shuma at D.

The rest is pretty much par of what is expected. And thanks for the submission Killa Sasa.

 

[Cloudius12]

Sentinel, imo, is at least B.

Shuma is underrated! B Tier.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Damn it Degen you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Killa Sasa]

Sentinel C+ is interesting... care to elaborate and discuss? Also Shuma at D.

The rest is pretty much par of what is expected. And thanks for the submission.

Only good thing about him is his assist (which is overrated because he's got paperweight health, is a huge target, and gets owned by any decent projectile/projectile assist). Even with assists backing him, nothing about him is scary IMO, Baby's First Combos and all. To me, he's the ultimate definition of "if you got hit by this, it is 100 percent your fault." His jM's are good, but again, only if you're playing against him mindlessly.

Shuma, I really just had to put somewhere, and again, I don't see much that he does better than anyone else. He has his good quirks like Mystic Ray assist and meter stealing throws, but I don't see what scary things he is capable of. Granted, he probably is the character that I know the absolute least about, so I can definitely be corrected.

Again though, if it were ABCD, Sent would sneak his way into the bottom part of B. I can see me being wrong on Shuma.

 

[smurfx]

i totally agree with you there sasa with dormammu being an s tier character.