It's not all surprising really, most aerial attacks have some sort of frame advantage when your opponent is grounded. What makes it scary is how long it lasts. Pipe happens to cause massive blockstun, it's +18 in the guide, at least +33 when pushblocked.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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It's not all surprising really, most aerial attacks have some sort of frame advantage when your opponent is grounded. What makes it scary is how long it lasts. Pipe happens to cause massive blockstun, it's +18 in the guide, at least +33 when pushblocked.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Just discovered a new glitch with Dante, still testing it.
If you do his QCF+L homing laser then snapback right as the orb hits they'll combo but the opponent goes into long hitstun instead of getting snapped out.
So far it's really random when it happens, I don't know why. Maybe it has to be the same frame, or some sort of angle or hitbox thing.
If you do his QCF+L homing laser then snapback right as the orb hits they'll combo but the opponent goes into long hitstun instead of getting snapped out.
So far it's really random when it happens, I don't know why. Maybe it has to be the same frame, or some sort of angle or hitbox thing.
@Sol: I knew that much about the chicken guarding and stand guarding, but I'm mostly intrigued by the duration of advantage Haggar has out of it. Shit is like tanking a Falcon Punch with a regular shield in Smash 64 I swear. "I can't move!"
Sasa, I have some thoughts typed up for you but I'm in full stream monster mode currently. This Big 2 is great.
...
You kinda just solved a huge mystery for me with this from a match I had with my brother months ago.
And chances are it's a same frame type deal. There's another Multilock glitch where if all of the shots connect on the same frame, the game treats the attack as one hit for stupid damage as well.
Sasa, I have some thoughts typed up for you but I'm in full stream monster mode currently. This Big 2 is great.
...
You kinda just solved a huge mystery for me with this from a match I had with my brother months ago.
And chances are it's a same frame type deal. There's another Multilock glitch where if all of the shots connect on the same frame, the game treats the attack as one hit for stupid damage as well.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Also, what's a good Dante BnB? This is what I just made:
jH, MH6H bc Volcano, jH xx Air Play, jH, MH xx Cold Shower, Prop Shredder, jS, Cold Shower, Stinger lvl2 bc Hammer, A2(Ankle Slicer), cross up Hammer, Volcano xx Bee Hive, Bee Hive xx Million Dollars
I'm gonna test to see if I can get a dash back S xx Clay Pigeon, Stinger bc Bee Hive after the first Bee Hive.
Wow, that's kinda cool. Too bad there's no assist that lasts that long... Maybe THC x-factor gimmicks lol
jH, MH6H bc Volcano, jH xx Air Play, jH, MH xx Cold Shower, Prop Shredder, jS, Cold Shower, Stinger lvl2 bc Hammer, A2(Ankle Slicer), cross up Hammer, Volcano xx Bee Hive, Bee Hive xx Million Dollars
I'm gonna test to see if I can get a dash back S xx Clay Pigeon, Stinger bc Bee Hive after the first Bee Hive.
Wow, that's kinda cool. Too bad there's no assist that lasts that long... Maybe THC x-factor gimmicks lol
Mandatory pimping of wares goes here. (Watch until 1:08)
(Tangent: This vid is ancient already. I'm starting to appreciate shot loop starters with j.M, j.H, Air Play, j.H, s.S)
Though I'm wondering what you want specifically as everyone always cringes when you say "shot loops".
I'm thoroughly convinced that Multilock has some stupid tech to itself. That move is buggy as fuck between what we said and that old discovery that it makes other moves empty cancellable. (When the projectile makes contact, the game reads Dante's physicals/sword normals count as a hit + a jump cancel at that, so empty jc Volcano, S, Prop Shredder and empty Sting - BC specials work)
"God's Beard!"
Member
As long as it works on most of the cast, best damage/meter is key. Thanks for the heads up, but are you a bad enough dude for this new combo section I made:
jS, Volcano, jS, Volcano, Air Play, Volcano, Sky Dance, Vajra, Volcano, Volcano, Volcano xx Bee Hive, Volcano xx Bee Hive?
NOPE.gif
Won't stop me from trying though. I can already see myself dreading the finger gymnastics.
Edit: Waaaaaaait... Air Play right after that Volcano or is there more there? Some of this stuff doesn't look like it should work. :lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
Tiger kneed as fuck
I figured, but why? Swag should be doled out in small amounts over a long duration lest you go mad trying to do shit like this! :lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
Because fuck normal moves is why.
edit:I should add a Bee Hive xx Devil Trigger, Million Carats, Bee Hive in there just to be a dick.
Actually, just make the Vajra part Volcano, Volcano, Million Carats xx Devil Trigger, Million Carats, Bee Hive into something pretty.
Sorry for how late this is, but:
Re: Viper
A lot of those matches I was trying to box Spiderman out because I realized early that if I let you get your pressure game up, it's GGs for me. I was attempting every kind of zoning between Rapid Seismos and Seismo-Beam, but for whatever reason, I wasn't as crisp with them as usual. As such, and with the intent of learning how to go in more with her, I tried a lot of moving through the air to meet up with Spidey between Burn Kick feints (Tangent: Every time I see them mid match I want to play some Metroid
) and air dashes. Problem is, you're way better at air grabs than I am at both grabbing and teching them which usually led to lots of dead Maya.
I was especially upset at a few of the times I saw the Spiderman resets coming but couldn't tech the grabs for anything.
Re: Dante
Ah Dante. When you're up I feel like I can take on the world and then I press a 13 frame normal during left-right cross ups against Ms. 3 frame claws. :lol
I think playing a lot of Zeroes with Dante has gotten my adaptation rate a bit higher for characters that have to super jump and float a bit in the air down. After the second or third game with your main team, I was trying to meet you mid dash with Air Play and j.Hs to try and convert. Problem most of the time though was in the conversion. It felt like everything I did I had to mash out at a certain point since I'd get the contact but nothing else.
The other issue is having Arrow Guy #2 for left-rights with Laura. Geez, I didn't ever think that she'd be fast enough to get the low if I blocked the first arrow from Triple Arrow standing. That one maneuver was killing the fuck out of me. :lol
I also realize that I need a better game plan for getting back to the ground if I'm left in the air. Helm Splitter isn't cutting it, online excuses be damned.
Re: Strider
After getting lit the fuck up by Smurf, I've been really trying to keep the calls for Vajra to the barest minimum. I mean, I didn't really get much started to begin with, but I didn't want any foreign tech on par with reaction Lariat/up arrows to cost me a full character.
Re: Viper
A lot of those matches I was trying to box Spiderman out because I realized early that if I let you get your pressure game up, it's GGs for me. I was attempting every kind of zoning between Rapid Seismos and Seismo-Beam, but for whatever reason, I wasn't as crisp with them as usual. As such, and with the intent of learning how to go in more with her, I tried a lot of moving through the air to meet up with Spidey between Burn Kick feints (Tangent: Every time I see them mid match I want to play some Metroid
) and air dashes. Problem is, you're way better at air grabs than I am at both grabbing and teching them which usually led to lots of dead Maya.I was especially upset at a few of the times I saw the Spiderman resets coming but couldn't tech the grabs for anything.
Re: Dante
Ah Dante. When you're up I feel like I can take on the world and then I press a 13 frame normal during left-right cross ups against Ms. 3 frame claws. :lol
I think playing a lot of Zeroes with Dante has gotten my adaptation rate a bit higher for characters that have to super jump and float a bit in the air down. After the second or third game with your main team, I was trying to meet you mid dash with Air Play and j.Hs to try and convert. Problem most of the time though was in the conversion. It felt like everything I did I had to mash out at a certain point since I'd get the contact but nothing else.
The other issue is having Arrow Guy #2 for left-rights with Laura. Geez, I didn't ever think that she'd be fast enough to get the low if I blocked the first arrow from Triple Arrow standing. That one maneuver was killing the fuck out of me. :lol
I also realize that I need a better game plan for getting back to the ground if I'm left in the air. Helm Splitter isn't cutting it, online excuses be damned.
Re: Strider
After getting lit the fuck up by Smurf, I've been really trying to keep the calls for Vajra to the barest minimum. I mean, I didn't really get much started to begin with, but I didn't want any foreign tech on par with reaction Lariat/up arrows to cost me a full character.
LMFAO that's a pretty apt description, you are on a roll today I can say that much. But yah if you block a pipe you have to be careful. If you have space behind you I would push block and then dash back and wait for another opportunity just because it feels like he has forever to open you up.
After getting lit the fuck up by Smurf, I've been really trying to keep the calls for Vajra to the barest minimum. I mean, I didn't really get much started to begin with, but I didn't want any foreign tech on par with reaction Lariat/up arrows to cost me a full character.
Yah calling Vajra sparingly is a necessity since Strider dies instantly when happy bdayed. Best to call it when you see someone jumping or setting yourself to get in. When I was watching Clockwork today, he wasn't really able to capitalize since Vajra didn't really get any hits in.
A good rule of thumb to remember when fighting Haggar, everything he does is safe on block, except a point blank Lariat (not cancelled into Body Splash) or a blocked Rapid Fire Fist super (which usually stems off a blocked Lariat, one of my biggest problems, I should be cancelling into body splash). If he does RFF on block you can throw him out of the attack before the last hit.
As much as I love my Haggar/Deadpool/Iron Man team I am thinking of playing Deadpool/Iron Man/Strider to deal with zoning heavy teams, like my buddy's MODOK, Dormmamu, Doom team. I'm afraid I'll end up liking this one more and it will become my main team. Its a lot better in theory. I just love cracking skulls and SPDing people with the mayor of earth. He's really good at opening up impatient players.
As much as I love my Haggar/Deadpool/Iron Man team I am thinking of playing Deadpool/Iron Man/Strider to deal with zoning heavy teams, like my buddy's MODOK, Dormmamu, Doom team. I'm afraid I'll end up liking this one more and it will become my main team. Its a lot better in theory. I just love cracking skulls and SPDing people with the mayor of earth. He's really good at opening up impatient players.
Professor Beef
Banned
Bleh, I think I finally need a new controller. And a new USB cable, come to think of it. Why do DS3s have to be so damned expensive?
I don't think I've seen a week where the DS3 wasn't not on sale up here in Canada, and we certainly don't get as many deals as y'all in the US. You always get like 1-2 games bundled with it too.
That said, my wired 360 pad is essentially busted. Left stick won't register clicks, has slight left bias, right stick is having problems too. So close to the end of the gen and I really don't feel like replacing it.
kevo_huevo
Member
so im practicing nova's fly/unfly bnb, if i'm using task (horizontal arrows) and akuma (tatsu), are there any effective combo extensions with either of those assists? should i change taskmaster's assist to diagonal or up arrows since tatsu already covers that range and provides lockdown for mixups?
"God's Beard!"
Member
I keep getting sad that Jam Session isn't as awesome for combos as Doom Missiles, but then I realize I'm playing a TAC team and it doesn't really matter. What does matter is Dante's TAC isn't as good as Doom's :-(
Then I realized that Magneto has a great raw tag combo to Dante and I could just TAC back to Magneto ^_^
Then I realized that Magneto has a great raw tag combo to Dante and I could just TAC back to Magneto ^_^
Good as in meter positive, damging or cool looking?
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I'm going to go play at my local arcade tonight and I haven't played Marvel in about a month. I hope I don't get slaughtered.
You can try:
st.LMH > Fly/UnFly stuff > j.S > f.H > Tatsu > Centurion Arts M > Centurion Arts H > Nova Force
It builds about 1 bar, does 750-800k and works midscreen/corner. You can DHC afterwards to taskmaster arrows for almost 1 million damage. You can use Taskmaster (parabolic shot) instead of Akuma (Tatsu) if you aren't close to the corner after the j.S. I think using that Taskmaster assist lets this combo work everywhere.
This seems to be the Nemesis BNB that doesn't start with a jump in:
c.LM, s.H, dp.M, c.M, s.H, qcf.L, (dash), j.MMH, s.MS, j.MMHS, rocket super
I was daydreaming about the game at work today, and I realized I could call hidden missiles during that bolded S, and have them OTG after the j.S. I can't wait to get home and see what I can do from there. I wonder if a second j.S into rocket hyper does more damage than just going straight into the other hyper (the one with the armor). Maybe sneak in more hits. Also could turn that into a reset.
c.LM, s.H, dp.M, c.M, s.H, qcf.L, (dash), j.MMH, s.MS, j.MMHS, rocket super
I was daydreaming about the game at work today, and I realized I could call hidden missiles during that bolded S, and have them OTG after the j.S. I can't wait to get home and see what I can do from there. I wonder if a second j.S into rocket hyper does more damage than just going straight into the other hyper (the one with the armor). Maybe sneak in more hits. Also could turn that into a reset.
JeTmAn81
Member
Spoken like someone who's never bought a fightstick (obviously).
Professor Beef
Banned
I have bought a fightstick before. I sold it when I discovered I was making less progress then with a controller after 3-4 months. I know how expensive they are, but I was talking about how controllers are still relatively expensive.
kevo_huevo
Member
thanks! both nova and akuma are new to me so i'll be trying this out tonight
You could check pawnshops if you have any decent ones near you. If you can find a controller that's still in good shape you probably only be paying about half the cost of a new DS3. I think DS3's are really overpriced compared to controller prices last gen.
I'd like at least a couple people's input on this subject, you guys may have spoken about it but it'd be cool to have a refresher. Watching Maximilian's games in MvC: Origins made me think of this. These days, the majority of fighting games have some sort of comeback mechanic, from DOA5, to SFIV, to TTT2, to P4A, and of course the infamous UMvC3.
What are your thoughts on comeback mechanics? Should fighting games have them? If so, how should they be implemented? What's a wrong way to do it?
What are your thoughts on comeback mechanics? Should fighting games have them? If so, how should they be implemented? What's a wrong way to do it?
kevo_huevo
Member
killer instinct basically had the anti-comeback mechanic with ultra combos. though combo breakers could be considered a comeback mechanic in a way.
but yeah, comeback mechanics are fine with me.
Comeback mechanics in straight up 1v1 fighters is lame and shouldn't be happening. Like the Rage thing in Tekken, unnecessary and one of my most hated inclusions in that game. Not a fan of Ultras in SF4 either. I also say this for fighters like TTT where killing one character means victory.
Comeback mechanics in a 2v2 or 3v3 fighter where you have to kill both characters and losing a character means no more tag options/assists etc is a bit of a necessity. In the case of Marvel, you are already getting punished enough for losing single characters. Loss of synergy, loss of options/tools, having to eat an incoming mix up and of course it's no fun trying to fight against a decked out assisted team with a solo unassisted character. X factor in it's current state is a bit too powerful and if used properly LVL3XF can actually trump 3 full characters who don't have XF.
To be honest I have not seen an ideal "comeback" mechanic yet. X factor is a good idea but not properly implemented (too over the top in its benefits). Ultras are just really bad, like worse than XF IMO (if Ultra gauge was only filled by FA then it would be more acceptable because you would be earning it). Pandora mode is a hail mary mechanic than a comeback mechanic. Combo breakers are more anti-comeback. Rage is terrible, shouldn't exist.
Killa Sasa
Member
I'mma just say that Baroque was all kinds of badass. TvC UAS was hella close to being classic, just needed a bit of tightening on a couple characters.
Still an awesome game too.
All your points are good. However, I like Ultras for the most part, though they could be tweaked to be better. I completely agree with you on XF and Pandora. Rage in Tekken is also kinda stupid.
What do you think of P4A and DOA5's comeback mechanics, Dahbomb?
Edit: Could someone explain Baroque to me? I never played TvC.
Sad to say, but seconding this please.
What is doa5's comeback mechanic?
SolarKnight
Member
Sacrifice your red health to cancel whatever non-super move you're currently doing while gaining a power boost proportional to the red health used while the opponent is still in hitstun.
P4A gives you free extra 50% meter making the possible total 150%, a defense boost, and access to a super only available in that mode.
Dunno about DoA.
Persona's comeback mechanic is called "Awakening." Basically, when your health is down to 35%~, you enter Awakening and gain a new Super(s) and your SP (game's meter system) increases by 50 (and your max gauge increases from 100 to 150). You also get a defense boost where you only take 62.5% the ordinary damage.
Character has to return to neutral state to actually enter it though.
Character has to return to neutral state to actually enter it though.
Baroque sounds alright, and I like the premise of P4A's.
It's much more minor than any of the others I've seen. Now, every character has a charge move they can execute at any time with downback + P + K. But if you're under about 50% health, then your health bar begins glowing red. If you are able to land the charge attack at this time, it goes into a cinematic that does more damage, and for the final hit, the screen turns dark and the camera centers behind your character. It highlights stage hazards that you can then aim your opponent into. The entire thing is over very quickly, though.
Oh, also Soul Calibur technically has one, where if you're one round from losing, it gives you a bar of meter.
Edit: What's in the SFxTK patch?
It's much more minor than any of the others I've seen. Now, every character has a charge move they can execute at any time with downback + P + K. But if you're under about 50% health, then your health bar begins glowing red. If you are able to land the charge attack at this time, it goes into a cinematic that does more damage, and for the final hit, the screen turns dark and the camera centers behind your character. It highlights stage hazards that you can then aim your opponent into. The entire thing is over very quickly, though.
Oh, also Soul Calibur technically has one, where if you're one round from losing, it gives you a bar of meter.
Edit: What's in the SFxTK patch?
Amen.
Though at this point the harsh realities have been clear for far too long. The dream is dead.
Professor Beef
Banned
They've invested more time and money into SFxT. Of course they're going to want to keep supporting it. Marvel 3 was made with their B team, wasn't it?
Killa Sasa
Member
Only some highlights have been revealed, more will be released soon.
Stuff like faster throws, better anti-airs for Tekken characters, gem power up has different color, recoverable health has different color, health recovers slower to prevent time out, cinematics are made faster etc. All sound good but they need a lot more still.
Shouldn't they be investing time/money into something that has actually produced them more cash and sales?
Oh wait this is Cacpcom we are talking about... they outsourced DMC after they released a DMC game that was the highest selling game in the series. Which game company does that shit?
SolarKnight
Member
Isn't it just the one they promised at EVO though? It's not anything new so why get salty now? :U
As someone who mained Paul Phoenix when I still owned the game, this actually sounds good, all of it does. I wonder how it'll affect the game.
Ultimate Marvel 3 was a huge step in the right direction, but definitely leaves many of us hungry for more. Don't worry guys, as fans of UMvC3, our day will come.
Professor Beef
Banned
They don't want their biggest joint project to fail, so they're doing what they can to keep that ship from sinking. It's similar to the 3DS' situation earlier in the year. Is Nintendo wrong for doing that?
i'll just say that xfactor is one of the reasons why i think nitsuma is a c-level developer.
3DS was under performing so TL;DR version of Nintendo's plan:
- Cut the fuck out of prices
- Bombard everyone with games they knew would grab people's attention (hence the number of Mario's on the system in such a short while)
- New models and colors for those trendy types
- Focusing entirely on 3DS for the better part of this year even with Wii U being spoken of in abstracts mere months before release.
@Smurfx: The concept is sound, but the execution leaves much to be desired. Funny that as TACs are in the same boat.
Karsticles
Member
It's not the same as the 3DS at all. Nintendo has one handheld system it needs to succeed on the market. So it makes sense to keep pouring money in it as an investment. Capcom has three fighting games on the market right now, and two of them are doing well while one sucks complete ass in all respects. The intelligent thing for Capcom to do is support the two games people like to play, and cut their losses on SFxT. Nintendo has no parallel option.
I agree with every word you said.