That's exactly what you should be doing when a console under performs. Consoles are different from games, you can't just let a console sink like that.
The last part is controversial though, they need to be hyping up Wii U more.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
The last part is controversial though, they need to be hyping up Wii U more.
This makes me so sad.
EDIT: Where is the UMVC3 patch that buffs all the low tier characters and provides small nerfs for the top tier characters?
Professor Beef
Banned
Ultras being worse than XF is completely hilarious.
It's the context of the games. Those mechanics taken in a vacuum then obviously Ultras aren't worse than XF but Ultras in a 1v1 fighter is worse than XF in a 3v3 fighter.
If XF was in SF (where you can activate it for benefits at 1/3rd intervals) then it would be unplayable. XF in MVC3 actually makes the game more playable in a lot of situations even in terms of balance (ie low tier character can be playable/threat in XF). The benefits of XF are supposed to cover up for the tools/options you lose when your characters die. The idea is right on the money but the implementation is poor (values are too high in LVL2/LVL3).
I'm so mad about this shit.
I would love to see the financials involved w/ the Marvel license around MvC. It would be fascinating. No one one really knows how costly the Marvel licensing is.
Yeah, it sucks, but it can't really be directed at just Capcom or just Marvel. Marvel probably costs a ton, and every little thing has a crap ton of complex licensing issues, and Capcom doesn't wanna risk financial loss on an arguably niche genre where they already have a rep for milking and Marvel gets a huge cut.
Feels very similar to the NFL/EA thing in some aspects. The NFL license exclusivity was as much NFL's doing as EA's. NFL controls their property and can be as tight with it as they want. People love it and want it, but their tight control over it results in angry, disappointment fans, not really pointing fingers at both parties responsible.
1v1 fighters still don't need comeback mechanics.
http://www.twitch.tv/iijokerii
Joker and Ray Ray about to run a set. RDK and Quandizzle are there too.
Joker and Ray Ray about to run a set. RDK and Quandizzle are there too.
I'm thinking that should I ever decide to make a fighter, I'm going to look at Vampire Saviour for a few ideas. Two of which I was playing with in an old concept of mine were "Dark Forces" that changed how specials (and certain special based assists) worked in real time.
Ex: The player triggers it with point character a la X-Factor for some meter and their specials would get different variations or extra effects based on the "theme" of the character. For example, let's say generic fire dude does it, his fire might get stronger or he might get moves that knockdown harder or explode for wall bounces where before they were lesser things to deal with. Similarly, should the moves you chose for assists on your second and anchor have a "modifier" attribute, aspects of how their assists work would also change to the primary theme going on in the point character's Dark Force.
The other idea I was thinking about was a Dark Force clash mechanic where another player could either dispel, equalize, or overpower the other's presence activation with their own. This is all on top of a few ideas I had regarding emphasizing team combinations by making specific THC that were actual Team setups like one person doing something that aids another's final strike. Think like some teamwork in anime or the like.
I should really get around to building my game concepts some more.
No game needs comeback mechanics.
I really like the flavor of your ideas, it's actually very similar to install hypers in Marvel like Devil Trigger and Denjin Mode. You'd have to be careful with balancing though, especially if you're going to let someone cancel out someone else's. Imagine if someone was in a bad spot, activated their Dark Force-esque move, then the other team used theirs to cancel it out, then the person in a bad spot is still in a bad spot.
This is also a fair opinion.
Sounds similar to how the upcoming BlazBlue handles Bursts except without being able to instead use the powerups as a burst when defensive.
.Sounds similar to how the upcoming BlazBlue handles Bursts except without being able to instead use the powerups as a burst when defensive.
There's another idea I had involving bursts I could share but I'd have to go way in depth with it. The long and short of it is that you can use this as a burst but it's heavily taxed if certain conditions aren't met. (i.e. 3 meters and a portion of red health vs. 1 meter and a smaller portion of red health)
With regards to these conditions, imagine a hybrid of the Skullgirls' IPS system, the Devil May Cry combo grading system and the Bayonetta score counter. The game detects certain loops of inputs and begins to grade down the attacker, representing itself in a manner similar to Skullgirls with a change in hitspark color to reflect timings for a burst. When it reaches the trigger color (like red or something equally jarring), you can trigger a standard burst or this Dark Force burst. The standard one is free, the special one costs the aforementioned 1 meter + red health although it isn't as much as it would be if someone used it before an instance of looped attacks in a string. What's more, a "dark force burst" would also trigger the Dark Force for like a 3rd to a 5th of the time they would be active under neutral situations to allow the defensive player one setup before the standard cool down time between activation.
Again, I'm not the best at putting together combat logic, but playing the games for the little while I have and spectating Marvel has really had me thinking about what a design document from myself would look like. The combo counter idea is friggin' massive for me to detail though. I'm mostly playing around with the idea of alternate means of balancing the aspects of combos and the like. In a sense, I'm wondering what it would be like if that rhythm of Offense - Chain - Offense could be adapted/loosely inspired from for subsystems for use in a fighter. I guess I could go into that if Marvel thread doesn't feel like I'm taking up too much of the attention from our regularly scheduled programming.
Professor Beef
Banned
I still feel that people blow Ultras way out of proportion. The only complaint that has any validity is how easy some of them are to combo into (DP > Ultra, for example). Other than that, and maybe some frame/damage tweaks to existing Ultras (poor Guile...), they're perfect.
They're bad in the same way X-Factor is bad.. one good decision can make up for a ton of bad decisions with reduced effort (Ultra taking a chunk of life vs. a series of correct decisions). X-Factor just gives you a prolongued advantage after that the opponent can even out if they so choose (counter-X-Factor) or negate.
Either way, at their core they're designed to give the loser an advantage when they haven't earned it, for the purpose of prolonging the fight, a trait I can't say any game "needs."
Karsticles
Member
What do you want to know about Strange?
Professor Beef
Banned
Ultras aren't guaranteed damage, though. You still have to put in the effort to connect with them, otherwise they're completely worthless. It's not like marvel where the losing player can eke out a win at times thanks to XF. Ultras are still balanced by player skill, no matter how strong they are.
combos, gimmicks, the basic IP loop
Karsticles
Member
His only gimmicks are block string to qcf.L, SoV XFC palm loop, teleport cross-ups, and Impact Palm frame traps.
Day 1 combo I land fairly regularly without actually using him much:
c.LMH, s.f+H, s.S, sj.MMH, sj.f+H, (j.MMH, j.f+H)x2, s.H, s.f+H, s.S, sj.MMH, sj.f+H, s.S, qcf.M, qcf.AA
You still need to wisely use your X-Factor, be it a guard cancel or what have you. A lot of players know now in what situations you can get your shit pushed in by X-Factor and you can actively avoid them or bait them. I don't understand what you mean by "guaranteed" damage at all, nothing is guaranteed so long as both people have their hands on their controllers. Also, X-Factor is still balanced by player skill too, opponent can always counter-XF, and at the end of the day it isn't like if there's a lone person in XF they're invincible or anything. I don't know where the assumption comes from where player skill is thrown out the door with X-Factor. If your better, in the context of the entire game and in that instance of being up against someone with the X-Factor advantage, you can still prevail. When you activate X-Factor it doesn't turn into a single-player QTE or something.
Marvel is just a riskier, more volatile game so X-Factor can generally get you further, there's a lot more dumb shit and option-selects you can get hit by, so the effects of X-Factor being something that is active for a duration of time rather than an instance is much more noticeable. But, fundamentally, they work very similar as comeback mechanics, and I can't vouch for any game needing them. I would love for SFV to return to just a super bar. Ultras feel extraneous, and unnecessary, like all comeback mechanics really.
Aren't there Q&A's held at some of the booths capcom hold? Just have a bunch of ppl ask why they aren't supporting UMvc3 anymore, who gives a fuck if they've answered it plenty of times, someone just say it makes you money, don't you guys like money? if I ever go to one of these events, I'll make sure to try and ask a question like that. Maybe if people keep nagging, shit might happen...BUT this is capcom we're talking about so who knows if that will have any impact (doubt it will)
shaowebb
Member
"God's Beard!"
Member
as in infinite options.
if the weaker characters like arthur were the strongest xf3 characters then xfactor wouldn't be so bad but of course the best characters in the game are usually the best characters in XF3. the best characters in the game should have the worst x factor rewards but good luck with that.Dark Arthur likes X-factor
He like it just fine.
Gotcha.
I snap in any anchored Arthurs, Vergils, Skrulls, Amaterasus, Hawkeyes or Striders I can nowadays. Too much bullshit to deal with either from a support or on point angle to leave them be. Now if only I could get my mixups tighter.
Speaking of mixups, I landed the Ryan Hunter. Online. I was goddamned Euphoric.
I don't like this train of thought just because that implies that the dev team knows certain characters would be lacking without the Kool-Aid and adjusting it to "help" them.
Why not just make good characters then?
I think that's a terrible way to balance it, even the way they've done it so far is terrible.
X-Factor bonuses should be a flat percentage across the board and the actual characters should be balanced to have relatively equal capabilities. Balance the game at it's core before you layer on complex mechanics.
EDIT: Azure put it better than I could.
I don't know- we've seen what happens when cacpcom pays too much attention and pushes a fighter too hard (SFxT). If that's how things like that turn out, I'd rather marvel continue to fly under the radar.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm up on PSN if anybody wants to play. Gods_Beard
You have a very good point. However, regardless of how hard it's pushed, it'd most likely be better with Niitsuma developing than Ono. I adore a lot of the decisions he made. And hey, if it does get pushed, that also means that there's a chance of Niitsuma getting the funding and time he deserves.
Karsticles
Member
Only three things need to change in Marvel 3:
1) All characters have 3 good assists and are good on point.
2) TACs made non-random in some form.
3) X-Factor speed boosts toned down.
1) All characters have 3 good assists and are good on point.
2) TACs made non-random in some form.
3) X-Factor speed boosts toned down.
College internet?
Karsticles
Member
I figure that with TACs being non-random, part of the change would have to be hitstun decay no longer resetting, otherwise it's hard to think of how you wouldn't always TAC on some teams.
"God's Beard!"
Member
For life. Sleep time now, though.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I would cry.
Professor Beef
Banned
Although Seth is a far more trustworthy name than say, Filipino Champ, I still refuse to believe that Capcom is even going to SAY "Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3," let alone tinker with it.
Karsticles
Member
Link so I can spread the madness?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarlinPie/status/256618239637979136
I'm on my phone so link might not work properly.
Like I said though, who knows if this is true, Marlin could just be messing around. I would like it to be true though, pretty sure everyone wants this to be true lol.
crimsonspider89
Banned
LOL. I doubt that. But if so..... Guess Avengers knocked some sense into Capcom. They saw it and was like HOLY SHIT, lets gear the game back up pronto.
Hopefully...... Give me more Mahvel chicks.
Hopefully...... Give me more Mahvel chicks.
Honestly speaking if the only thing they fix are TACs then I would be happy too. That's easily the #1 problem with the game right now, barring even the infinites.
Too bad all Capcom is going to do is fix the hit stun to prevent infinites and will not have the balls to actually "fix" TACs.
One thing that gets me is that since Seth Killian hasn't been working with Capcom for quite a while but still knows about the patch... it means that the patch was planned for quite some time now. There was that Nitsuma comment on the TAC infinites but the rumor mill was going even before that (Zero nerf, Morrigan nerf).
Too bad all Capcom is going to do is fix the hit stun to prevent infinites and will not have the balls to actually "fix" TACs.
One thing that gets me is that since Seth Killian hasn't been working with Capcom for quite a while but still knows about the patch... it means that the patch was planned for quite some time now. There was that Nitsuma comment on the TAC infinites but the rumor mill was going even before that (Zero nerf, Morrigan nerf).
you know i think i might prefer them just leaving shit alone since knowing them they would introduce some other game breaking thing and they would then just abandon marvel.
More fuel for the 'balance patch' rumor? I'm always game. I asked Bum in the Joker vs Ray Ray stream chat earlier if it was still happening, and he said there was a change it might.
I'd rather them tinker with the game beyond fixing TAC infinite though. I think this game could be much better off if they gave it one final balance swoop, with nerfs to Vergil and Zero and buffs to bad characters. That's just me, though.
I'd rather them tinker with the game beyond fixing TAC infinite though. I think this game could be much better off if they gave it one final balance swoop, with nerfs to Vergil and Zero and buffs to bad characters. That's just me, though.
They didn't introduce any game breaking thing in UMVC3 either, TAC infinites were always present. Probably the most OP thing they included in the game were the buffs to Zero. Wesker's sun glasses and Doom Foot Daive are lol too though.
But yea as always, buff them low tiers.
IRON MAN BUFFS PLZ CAPCOM!!!
*Can finally dash cancel normals anytime during his ground dash.
*Air dash down/forward start up decreased dramatically. Rest of the properties remain the same. Air dash up/forward and down/back adjusted accordingly as well, IM has legit diagonal fast dashes in the air.
*St.H ranged extended slightly to match that of cr.M and j.M.
*Iron Avenger vertical hit box increased and can be used in the air
*Proton Cannon can now be aimed diagonally up, no need to input the DP motion. DHCing or X factoring before the final hit of PC causes a soft knockdown.
*Returning hyper "War Destroyer" mapped to DP+ 2 attack. IM fires of a salvo of missiles vertically from a massive pack behind him. Summoning the pack is 3 frame just like the PC and can hit the opponent up right into all the rockets. The pack prevents IM from being grabbed out of the hyper. Hyper is safe as IM recovers just before the missiles finish landing. Missiles can hit OTG but are usually too slow for this purpose.
*Returning move "Knee Dive" mapped to d+M. Works like Akuma's dive kick and can be air dash cancelled.
*Air Smart Bombs reworked. Uncharged Smart Bombs have less recovery and continue IM's momentum after usage. Hit stun after max scaling adjusted so that you can't just simply TK Smart Bombs into relaunches over and over again. Semi-charged Smart Bombs follow the same trajectory only with a few more bombs, travel downwards slowly and have more durability (similar to MVC2 Smart Bombs). Fully charged Smart Bombs takes more time to charge up and releases a bigger salvo of Smart Bombs that are slower but with semi-homing capabilities. Finally, IM's bombs are smart.
But yea as always, buff them low tiers.
IRON MAN BUFFS PLZ CAPCOM!!!
*Can finally dash cancel normals anytime during his ground dash.
*Air dash down/forward start up decreased dramatically. Rest of the properties remain the same. Air dash up/forward and down/back adjusted accordingly as well, IM has legit diagonal fast dashes in the air.
*St.H ranged extended slightly to match that of cr.M and j.M.
*Iron Avenger vertical hit box increased and can be used in the air
*Proton Cannon can now be aimed diagonally up, no need to input the DP motion. DHCing or X factoring before the final hit of PC causes a soft knockdown.
*Returning hyper "War Destroyer" mapped to DP+ 2 attack. IM fires of a salvo of missiles vertically from a massive pack behind him. Summoning the pack is 3 frame just like the PC and can hit the opponent up right into all the rockets. The pack prevents IM from being grabbed out of the hyper. Hyper is safe as IM recovers just before the missiles finish landing. Missiles can hit OTG but are usually too slow for this purpose.
*Returning move "Knee Dive" mapped to d+M. Works like Akuma's dive kick and can be air dash cancelled.
*Air Smart Bombs reworked. Uncharged Smart Bombs have less recovery and continue IM's momentum after usage. Hit stun after max scaling adjusted so that you can't just simply TK Smart Bombs into relaunches over and over again. Semi-charged Smart Bombs follow the same trajectory only with a few more bombs, travel downwards slowly and have more durability (similar to MVC2 Smart Bombs). Fully charged Smart Bombs takes more time to charge up and releases a bigger salvo of Smart Bombs that are slower but with semi-homing capabilities. Finally, IM's bombs are smart.