The Mango Sentinel
Member
I am interested in this.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
I am interested in this.
SolarKnight
Member
Link to that?
It seems to work with the basic Nova fly combo and H loops. It's corner only though, but Nova has corner carry combos for days so it should still be useful.
After you go for a relaunch hit j.H as soon as possible and cancel into gravimetric pulse M as soon as possible and then into gravimetric blaster as soon as possible. On a medium sized character the beam should clip their feet. While they're in free fall hit j.H xx Nova Force.
As long as your opponent is above Nova when Gravimetric Blaster starts it's doable. It also works with any amount of red health and the timing is less strict. the previous versions all use 30% or more red life which made it look less than practical. For this all you need is the corner.
You can also use air rocket punch M, away from the corner, but the damage isn't too great.
I thought I saw PRRog/Justin always MMLH-DrillClaw/Dive on the 1st launch and relaunch MMLHS. My guess is that adding L will give you a little more meter in exchange for damage & hit scaling?
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I think Wesker is a so so anchor. He's great at herp derping with Level 4 Xfactor. On the flipside however is that he has a lot of bad matchups and those matchups are popular characters. Characters like Morrigan, Wesker can't do shit. I don't think he's as bad as people say on anchor, he's just not godlike to how people used to see him.
And why do people keep saying Wesker has bad assists. Gunshot is the best low hitting OTG assist in the game. That alone saves him.
And why do people keep saying Wesker has bad assists. Gunshot is the best low hitting OTG assist in the game. That alone saves him.
kevo_huevo
Member
True dat. FOr my old team, Wesker's otg assist made Spencer's TOD combos even more TOD-y and braindead.
As per what Angelic tweeted me
Angelic ‏@AZAngelic 22h
@Grecco yes, almost always. Anytime you mmhs you should probably do mmlhs
it seems its M M L H S it gives more meter and more time for the vergil pickup with team Rog
Karsticles
Member
Top 10 high-execution characters:
Criteria:
1) Only neutral execution and hit confirmation execution are given consideration. This is because combos strongly vary by team and are hard to judge, most characters have difficult combos that take practice (which makes them hard to differentiate), and combos are largely muscle memory once they are learned. In other words, I'm not interested in ranking characters based on how easy their bnb is.
2) Execution requirements are judged roughly on a "buttons per second" method. Unorthodox execution (Dante Bold Cancel) is given very little weight, as any execution requirement generally falls off once muscle memory kicks in. The point is to judge who requires the most execution at any given moment to be effective in the neutral.
3) The characters are rated based on how much execution is required to play that character at a moderately high level. No character has peaked out yet, so characters cannot be judged on this merit.
Here is my list from hardest to easiest:
1. Chun-li- minimum height air dashes for pressure, dangerous if over-mashed, plinked air dashes
2. Jill - feral crouch canceling is constantly needed for basic gameplay
3. C. Viper - focus attack canceling, special canceling, TKed seismics, button charging
4. Morrigan - basic gameplay requires constant qcf/b motions, high execution air-to-air hit confirms
5. Magneto - plink air dashes, air dash x magnetic blast, high execution air-to-air hit confirms
6. Dante - bold canceling, minimum height air dashes
7. Rocket Raccoon - basic gameplay requires rocket skates x special
8. Arthur - j.S x special required for basic gameplay, very height sensitive
9. Hsien-ko - plink dashing is required to do anything; minimum height air dashes
10. Amaterasu - instant overhead conversions, weapon changes used often for basic gameplay
Criteria:
1) Only neutral execution and hit confirmation execution are given consideration. This is because combos strongly vary by team and are hard to judge, most characters have difficult combos that take practice (which makes them hard to differentiate), and combos are largely muscle memory once they are learned. In other words, I'm not interested in ranking characters based on how easy their bnb is.
2) Execution requirements are judged roughly on a "buttons per second" method. Unorthodox execution (Dante Bold Cancel) is given very little weight, as any execution requirement generally falls off once muscle memory kicks in. The point is to judge who requires the most execution at any given moment to be effective in the neutral.
3) The characters are rated based on how much execution is required to play that character at a moderately high level. No character has peaked out yet, so characters cannot be judged on this merit.
Here is my list from hardest to easiest:
1. Chun-li- minimum height air dashes for pressure, dangerous if over-mashed, plinked air dashes
2. Jill - feral crouch canceling is constantly needed for basic gameplay
3. C. Viper - focus attack canceling, special canceling, TKed seismics, button charging
4. Morrigan - basic gameplay requires constant qcf/b motions, high execution air-to-air hit confirms
5. Magneto - plink air dashes, air dash x magnetic blast, high execution air-to-air hit confirms
6. Dante - bold canceling, minimum height air dashes
7. Rocket Raccoon - basic gameplay requires rocket skates x special
8. Arthur - j.S x special required for basic gameplay, very height sensitive
9. Hsien-ko - plink dashing is required to do anything; minimum height air dashes
10. Amaterasu - instant overhead conversions, weapon changes used often for basic gameplay
Iron Man, X23 (MFCs) and MODOK are more execution heavy than Arthur. J.S into special is not hard to do at all.
IM has similar stuff as Magneto minus plink dashes but with the addition of hard ground based fly cancel confirms. MODOK has air dash cancel requiring combos. X23 has Mirage Feint cancels for pressure, mix ups and combos.
IM has similar stuff as Magneto minus plink dashes but with the addition of hard ground based fly cancel confirms. MODOK has air dash cancel requiring combos. X23 has Mirage Feint cancels for pressure, mix ups and combos.
Karsticles
Member
MFCs are typically combo-only if they're difficult. X-23's neutral is actually very easy. MODOK would probably be 12, right after Shuma-Gorath. Iron Man's neutral is not execution heavy at all, he's a light execution character outside of air-to-air hit confirms, which are definitely difficult.
MFC are required for pressure and mix ups. That's a big part of her neutral as a rush down character.
IM also has air dash into Smart Bombs, fly cancel normals for zoning and like mentioned before ground combos that require a fly confirm (pretty much unique to him). That is enough to put him over Arthur.
IM also has air dash into Smart Bombs, fly cancel normals for zoning and like mentioned before ground combos that require a fly confirm (pretty much unique to him). That is enough to put him over Arthur.
Karsticles
Member
If you just mean doing something like LMH, Mirage Feint + assist, that's not hard. Otherwise you just have Mirage Feint, d+H. No one does Mirage Feint, cancel, s.H or something for pressure.
Karsticles
Member
Nope. I think you've never played a good Arthur. Perfect height j.S into Dagger Toss repeatedly to maintain pressure while moving forward is hard as hell to do consistently, and has massive consequences if you fail. X-23 just loses a mix-up, and what I wrote above for her is C-tier execution stuff. Arthur takes a ton of work to play in the neutral effectively.
Karsticles
Member
Iron Man has minimum jump height j.S's converted into qcf motions? Unless you actually want to list something that X-23 can do that I haven't mentioned, I retain my judgment.
No IM does not have that, I was talking about zoning with lots of inputs required and with precise timing with little room for error. As stated under your prerequisites a high execution character requires a lot of actions per second and I feel IM qualifies.
This is an example of some neutral game play of IM. It's basic Vanilla stuff but all of this applies and is the basic requirement to play the neutral game with him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQdyXEMLJgs&sns=em
You can see the inputs display.
This is an example of some neutral game play of IM. It's basic Vanilla stuff but all of this applies and is the basic requirement to play the neutral game with him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQdyXEMLJgs&sns=em
You can see the inputs display.
Karsticles
Member
Definitely not anywhere near Arthur difficulty. Under Doom, Dormammu, and Phoenix difficulty.
Edit: Hahaha, I just saw Enzo's new avatar. That "L" is pretty fitting:
Good Games to Slasher and "God's Beard!!".
Slasher, I was getting pretty worried that you were going get a perfect on me with team armor!
God's Beard, you don't have to do buktooth loop in the corner with doom. You can just something as easy as:
c.LHS j.Mf.HS s.MS j.Mf.HS s.MS s.MS j.Mf.HS s.M dp AA(Sphere Flame).
Thanks for the games guys, it was fun. I feel like my Dante is gradually becoming less ass, and Hawkeye backed by Drones and Jam Session seems legitimate.
Slasher, I was getting pretty worried that you were going get a perfect on me with team armor!
God's Beard, you don't have to do buktooth loop in the corner with doom. You can just something as easy as:
c.LHS j.Mf.HS s.MS j.Mf.HS s.MS s.MS j.Mf.HS s.M dp AA(Sphere Flame).
Thanks for the games guys, it was fun. I feel like my Dante is gradually becoming less ass, and Hawkeye backed by Drones and Jam Session seems legitimate.
Doom has brain dead Photon Shot zoning and j.H plus foot dive with limited need for zoning with his normals which IM does like Sentinel. Plus Doom only has to do QCB motions in air, IM has to do QCF and DP motions. The precision required to play IM is way higher than that required for Doom especially when we start bringing in aerial hit confirmations into the mix or throw conversions.
And why is Hsien Ko so high? She requires plink dashing? IM requires plink dashing on the ground as well, only way to make his ground dash usable.
Also here's my list of top 10 easiest execution characters:
Wolverine
Hulk
Haggar
Taskmaster
Hawkeye
Ghost Rider
Captain America
Spencer
Wesker
Vergil
And why is Hsien Ko so high? She requires plink dashing? IM requires plink dashing on the ground as well, only way to make his ground dash usable.
Also here's my list of top 10 easiest execution characters:
Wolverine
Hulk
Haggar
Taskmaster
Hawkeye
Ghost Rider
Captain America
Spencer
Wesker
Vergil
Professor Beef
Banned
GGs Slasher and GB. Dinner was ready so I had to bounce.
kevo_huevo
Member
hell yeah lol. i have either played or currently play these guys as part of my main team(s).
No Frank West?
@Karst: I don't entirely understand why Dante is on your difficult execution list- he seems pretty middle-of-the-road to me. Bold cancelling is muscle memory like you said, and it's not like minimum height airdashes alone are taxing enough to put him in the 10 over certain other characters.
Forgot about West. Although I have no idea who I would replace on that list with.
The Madcatz stream is on so I am putting this thread/discussion on hold. I generally agree with the list but I am questionable about Hsien Ko and Arthur up there over IM. I guess since unorthodox execution is out of the picture MODOK can't really make the list.
The Madcatz stream is on so I am putting this thread/discussion on hold. I generally agree with the list but I am questionable about Hsien Ko and Arthur up there over IM. I guess since unorthodox execution is out of the picture MODOK can't really make the list.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Hey man.
it's hard to decide when to hail mary superjump j.S/knee drop
actually that's all Frank West does
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMlW04ekx_M
it's hard to decide when to hail mary superjump j.S/knee drop
actually that's all Frank West does
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMlW04ekx_M
Maybe Wesker? To play him properly you need really fast and consistent wave/plink-dashing and have to condition your opponent to respect dash in lows and avoid chicken guarding so you can land command grabs. His max damage glasses-off combos are quite difficult too, IMO. Frank you just jump around, swing chainsaws into ez-mode hit confirms, and knee drop occasionally. High level Vergil isn't easy either, right? Constantly round trip glitching and using it for safe blockstrings/mix-ups seems pretty tough (even though derpy Vergil play works pretty well too).
SolarKnight
Member
A Pretty Panda said:
That's a lie and you know it.
There's also spamming his M attacks at lv4+.
Karsticles
Member
Bold canceling in the neutral is another story, though. Doing something like MH, assist call + Air Trick is not easy when done properly.
IMO, Vergil and Hawkeye are middle execution. If you're playing Vergil right, you have to button-hold-swap constantly, and that isn't easy. Hawkeye is probably bottom 15, but bottom 10? I think Nova, Frank West, Chris, Ryu, Nemesis, and Phoenix Wright deserve consideration. I'd like to hear your justifications for excluding these characters over others.
In the example you mentioned you don't need to bold cancel, no? Even if you did MH stinger+assist bc air trick, it's still a rote sequence that muscle memory should take care of once you decide to do it. What's hard about Dante's neutral game for me personally is being crippled by choice since he has so many options at his disposal.
racketpunch
Member
This list needs more Nova and Sentinel
Karsticles
Member
Right, I was giving another example aside from bold trick. My post was not organized to convey that thought, though.
Bold canceling stinger becomes muscle memory, but you could say the same about TKed Seismos or Soul Fist waves. Using them under pressure as part of your game takes a lot of work, though.
Wat? If anything, Sentinel is top 20 in execution.
With Sentinel you have to constantly flight cancel stuff and really carefully and deliberately choose your buttons in the air. I think properly playing high level Sent in the neutral game isn't as easy as people think.
There's no justification for Vergil he barely made it in as it is but now I would put Frank in top 10 over him. At first I had Nova in there but him having a fight mode and air dashes (up/down instant over head is still harder than anything you have to do with Frank). Chris you have to do a bunch of tiger knees with him in the neutral, same for Nemesis. Ryu would probably qualify though he does have some fuzzy guards and tricky air confirmations. Hawkeye is the easiest zoner in the game with easy combos. Technically Tron and IF qualify too, I mean they don't have much of a neutral game.
To me middle is like Sentinel or Joe in this game.
racketpunch
Member
I agree about having to flight cancel almost everything but its just a qcb motion. Nothing too crazy with his fly/unfly game and his normals are slow enough that you have all day to cancel in and out if it. Everyone with every character should be careful about which normals they press regardless. I main him and the only reason his neutral game is difficult for me is because of his slow mixups when he's alone. It has nothing to do with his execution. Now if this was mvc2 sent then that's another story. Flight cancel was much faster and fast fly wasn't something a lot of players could grasp.
Edit: Nevermind. I'm looking at the requirements as a whole from what karst defined and now get it.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Sorry I missed you earlier for playing, I sent you a message on PSN.
Anyway, Wesker is still a beast as an anchor but he can't deal with Morrigan/Zero/Vergion stuff I agree. I might have to move him to point for me.
I hate getting Bold Move instead of my Bold Cancel. Especially when it's on a happy birthday, and I mess up because the hitstop is twice as long and my input gets lost in there. I go too fast when I should really just chill and go slower. I also hate the way the game reads inputs sometimes. Too many DPs for QCFs and vice versa.
And then you got plink Bold Cancels for frametraps, delayed teleport mixups, etc, etc and you've got a pain in the ass. Doesn't help that my execution ranges from bad to okay, generally settling in the middle with 'meh'. Recently it's been bad, which is a pain in my ass because I want to make a video but can't because my fingers refuse to work, and the input delay while recording doesn't help any. >_>
And then you got plink Bold Cancels for frametraps, delayed teleport mixups, etc, etc and you've got a pain in the ass. Doesn't help that my execution ranges from bad to okay, generally settling in the middle with 'meh'. Recently it's been bad, which is a pain in my ass because I want to make a video but can't because my fingers refuse to work, and the input delay while recording doesn't help any. >_>
They should. I don't know the exact number, but she's somewhere in the +10 on block after a s.H Mirage Feint cancel.
Karsticles
Member
I'm just going to pushblock her anyway.
Eh, she's got a really fast dash that goes pretty far. She's got options to stay in, even after a pushblock using feint cancels. I'd watch this video to get an idea of what she can do with it as far as pressure goes.
Although I'm not really pointing this out because of the execution requirement, more pointing it out because no one seems to really know about her cancel stuff.
I'd replace Haggar. At least to get TOD combos with him with certain assists there's actually timing to it.
Karsticles
Member
Read the criteria I laid out.
Combos aren't part of the equation. It's what you do when you are not comboing that is the basis of execution heavy or not. With every character you can usually choose to do easier combos to get the job done if the rest of your game is up to snuff.
Karsticles
Member
Strange + Ammy THC = full combo.
Similar to the Doom THC? I'm assuming Strange is the one comboing. Fuck, I guess I need to start practicing dem comboz. My Strange is ayyyyussssss.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah. You can OTG with Grace of Hoggoth M or, if you're really good, place Eye of Agamotto right before the last bolt strikes from Ammy's hyper and go into jump loops.
Karsticles
Member
No.
Posted in the other thread but yea the synergy is great between the two.
Jill with Jam Session and Vajra is ass. Better off replacing Jam with Weasel Shot but really though she needs a full screen fast beam.
Lee Chaolan
Member
Wow, yeah, I'd have to imagine it's better with how fast the Book comes out. Great possibilities.
Yeah, I'm thinking that Spidey/Strange/Ammy might be pretty good if I can actually get the combos down. Hah.
The teleport makes it really easy to get in close after the THC, which is nice.