Ah OK, just making sure I didn't miss any patch hints or anything lol.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Ah OK, just making sure I didn't miss any patch hints or anything lol.
"God's Beard!"
Member
First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
This is not up for debate.
This is not up for debate.
Professor Beef
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70734021]First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
So you want me to use Slow on you even more?
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
So you want me to use Slow on you even more?
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70734021]First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
Ummm fuck that shit.
Though I'm curious about your reasoning.
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
Ummm fuck that shit.
Though I'm curious about your reasoning.
I like this idea y'all have, DO IT UP BROS.
Once it's complete send that shit to Ono and lets hope for the best!
Karst, maybe you can ask GFaqs to do the same? unless you don't think it'll be as "good" as the one you guys are gonna make? I feel the more people involved, the higher chance someone will notice WE WANT MORE MARVEL.
In terms of characters I'd like for Uncanny (if ever to be) I'd like Sigma, I wouldn't mind if they excluded X again but only if I get Sigma, I NEED SIGMA. Capcom side needs more villains anyway so why not add him! HE'S A PERFECT CHOICE.
Once it's complete send that shit to Ono and lets hope for the best!
Karst, maybe you can ask GFaqs to do the same? unless you don't think it'll be as "good" as the one you guys are gonna make? I feel the more people involved, the higher chance someone will notice WE WANT MORE MARVEL.
In terms of characters I'd like for Uncanny (if ever to be) I'd like Sigma, I wouldn't mind if they excluded X again but only if I get Sigma, I NEED SIGMA. Capcom side needs more villains anyway so why not add him! HE'S A PERFECT CHOICE.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70734021]First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
This doesn't even make sense, this means people who are in control of a match can't snap back. On top of that it nerfs Nova in an awkward way, his red health mechanic should be a huge reward for him.
This is not up for debate.[/QUOTE]
This doesn't even make sense, this means people who are in control of a match can't snap back. On top of that it nerfs Nova in an awkward way, his red health mechanic should be a huge reward for him.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Nova's red health mechanic should be an option.
Just saying since you mentioned Nova.
Yeah I know, just putting it out there though
You got your character, NOW IT'S MY TURN!
(Sadly, it'll never happen :<)
In that case, I would like to join the committee.
Characters I'm most familiar with:
She-hulk
Taskmaster
Dr. Doom
Dante
Deadpool(?)
Sentinel
Storm(?)
Trish
Strider
Rocket Raccoon(?)
Amaterasu(?)
Super-skrull(?)
Magneto(?)
Question marks denote less familiar characters.
Today is Monday and the PSA states that today is when we start discussion. First order of business is system mechanics. Here were my suggestions from a few pages ago, people can agree or disagree:
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=70375301
I think figuring out how to fix TACs without completely removing them is going to be the most controversial task.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=70375301
I think figuring out how to fix TACs without completely removing them is going to be the most controversial task.
This should be none other than SlasherMcGirk.
Also I'm willing to provide some suggestions during this, but I'm dont want to be part of the committee.
"God's Beard!"
Member
no reason, just trolling
using TAC'S cost you a meter and you no longer get any meter or get to steal any meter. HSD no longer goes to 0% either but gets reduced by 25% from where it was when you TAC'd. with that people will have to think about using TAC's instead of just mindlessly throwing them out there. if somebody breaks your TAC then you just got to hold dat.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Honestly I would of just made it so TAC's are non breakable, don't gain or take meter, but have a 50% damage penalty attached to them for the remainder of the combo.
Would add a safe way to tag meter free but at the cost of not killing your opponent from most high life situations.
It's a tag game, the team combos should be encouraged not discouraged.
The biggest problem with TAC's are the infinites/extended combos that come with it, those wont be in anymore so making TAC's some high cost high risk thing is stupid.
Would add a safe way to tag meter free but at the cost of not killing your opponent from most high life situations.
It's a tag game, the team combos should be encouraged not discouraged.
The biggest problem with TAC's are the infinites/extended combos that come with it, those wont be in anymore so making TAC's some high cost high risk thing is stupid.
biosnake20
Member
So we can all agree on grab techs being a lot more like SF. The tech happens and push you a certain distance away and your both stuck in the animation for almost as long as SF.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Almost 650k meterless on my Hawkeye combo now, I think that's as far as I can push it. About 950k for two bars.
I like the way it is now better. Maybe add 5-10 unthrowable frames after teching, but too far on the pushback and you lose a lot of game opening mixups.
I like the way it is now better. Maybe add 5-10 unthrowable frames after teching, but too far on the pushback and you lose a lot of game opening mixups.
And before I even finish this, Q comes along with a great suggestion with the 50% damage penalty on the TACs. Make it so that each consecutive TAC does 50% less damage/meter build too and that might be a cool take on things as well.
Question for everyone: How would you feel about removing movement before match starts?
Azure's System Changelist:
- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
- Throw tech window increased moderately.
- Grounded throw techs put a distance of one full character between the person who initiated the grab and the one who teched the grab.
- Grabs can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
- Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
- Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
- TAC now costs one meter for every tag done in sequence.
- A person caught in a combo that leads to a TAC from the attacker can pay a meter to counter the tag with their own tag in.
ex: Player one using Ryu confirms combo on Player 2 using Akuma. Player 1 TACs to Chun Li but Player 2 counter TACs to C.Viper. Chun Li and C. Viper have a brief exchange animation with Viper winning out breaking the combo in an animation similar to the current TAC break. There are no follow up combos afterwards for either party.
- TAC combos are subject to hit stun decay the whole way through.
Question for everyone: How would you feel about removing movement before match starts?
Azure's System Changelist:
- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
- Throw tech window increased moderately.
- Grounded throw techs put a distance of one full character between the person who initiated the grab and the one who teched the grab.
- Grabs can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
- Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
- Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
- TAC now costs one meter for every tag done in sequence.
- A person caught in a combo that leads to a TAC from the attacker can pay a meter to counter the tag with their own tag in.
ex: Player one using Ryu confirms combo on Player 2 using Akuma. Player 1 TACs to Chun Li but Player 2 counter TACs to C.Viper. Chun Li and C. Viper have a brief exchange animation with Viper winning out breaking the combo in an animation similar to the current TAC break. There are no follow up combos afterwards for either party.
- TAC combos are subject to hit stun decay the whole way through.
Azure your system mechanics are the exact same as mine except for TAC. I think I have seen like 5 different types of TAC solutions already.
I think one thing we can all agree on TACs is that the HSD should not be set to 0 when characters are considered airborne. That and effectively taking out the 3 way guessing game involved.
I think one thing we can all agree on TACs is that the HSD should not be set to 0 when characters are considered airborne. That and effectively taking out the 3 way guessing game involved.
Karsticles
Member
I am going to categorize the suggestions tomorrow so we can have discussions on them point by point.
I've also always been keen on making the screen zoom out during superjumps. I hate losing sight of my character.
Though I think those changes are too extreme for a patch update...
GFAQs has tons of trolls on it, even in the Marvel forums. People would not take it seriously. There are good, thoughtful posters there, but they get lost in the herd. I know I can count on the folks here to produce good and intelligent discussion because that that is what NeoGAF encourages. On GFAQs, the people who call trolls out get moderated.
You are welcome, then!
I would love it, because I play Dormammu. However, the opening gambit is kind of a Marvel tradition, isn't it? Does it go all the way back to CotA? If that's the case, I'm inclined to think it should stay for that sake. On the other hand, I think that no pre-match movement would take us a long way toward the game being balanced, since "can he/she survive Wolverine?" would no longer be the point standard.
I've also always been keen on making the screen zoom out during superjumps. I hate losing sight of my character.
Though I think those changes are too extreme for a patch update...
100% on that.
I think changing stuff like Wolverine's walk speed and throw tech window/space are better options than taking away movement before round start. I can go either way on this but I prefer not to because it's still a big part of what Mahvel's about.
As far as system mechanics go I think we need a whole day for the following things:
*TACs
*Throw system
*Assist system
*Incoming character system
*Overall damage, scaling, block damage, XF values
*Other stuff
As far as system mechanics go I think we need a whole day for the following things:
*TACs
*Throw system
*Assist system
*Incoming character system
*Overall damage, scaling, block damage, XF values
*Other stuff
"God's Beard!"
Member
I think I can get 700k meterless with Hawkeye but it's super duper hard. Reorganizing the combo so that I get two full poison shots without losing regular damage is tough. No matter how close I get, I can't get to 520k regular damage without the opponent spinning out at the final jHS unless I move the first poison shot further down the combo.
Bleh.
Bleh.
Frankly, I would just remove throws during air dashes period. You can't do it on the ground, so why can you do it in the air?
I just want to nerf Nova
I'd make it so at the start of the round you can super jump, dash, airdash, fly and all tha- wait, we're not talking about Koryuu edition? Drat.
When I'm less tired(freaking EVO messing with my sleep) I'll try to think up some system changes, I suppose.
i'll definitely go along with this.
Karsticles
Member
Edit: Oh yeah, and Dahbomb, it's time to do your announcer thing. ;-)
I suppose that as part of my record keeper position, I will need to keep a running list of stuff people suggest as the conversation goes.
I assume we all know that removing throws during air dashes would be bad.
Alright, here is everything I have seen so far separated into categories. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A SUGGESTION, ADD A BOLD TITLE BEFORE IT SO I CAN FIND IT EASIER TO ADD TO THE LIST. This list is not clean, I just copy/pasted everything I saw posted about system changes for now. If your suggestion is not in here, it's because I missed it; point it out to me.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*TACs are non-breakable, no meter gain/loss when used, usable at any point in a combo, no HSD reset (basically, make it another combo option for teams).
*TAC system fixed. 20 frame window to counter a TAC that is highlighted by the required TAC. After a successful TAC counter the color of the TAC is shown (this should already be in the game though). HSD starts at 0 after TACs and builds back up to normal in air. Will still keep some characters useful in terms of TAC combos like Iron Man, MODOK, Doom but not give them ridiculous combos. Also TACs are now more like a true mix up in that you can actually react to them like throws in Tekken. 20 frames is just about what a normal human being can react to. This will generally make TACs less desirable than resets except when you desperately need to switch out a character after getting a hit. Also you are allowed unlimited chances to break TACs, no more TAC glitching someone into a guaranteed combo.
*using TAC'S cost you a meter and you no longer get any meter or get to steal any meter. HSD no longer goes to 0% either but gets reduced by 25% from where it was when you TAC'd. with that people will have to think about using TAC's instead of just mindlessly throwing them out there. if somebody breaks your TAC then you just got to hold dat.
*Honestly I would of just made it so TAC's are non breakable, don't gain or take meter, but have a 50% damage penalty attached to them for the remainder of the combo.
Throw Changes:
*Ground throw techs create slightly more space; techable throw time increased by 5 frames.
*Throw tech window increased, more space after tech and you cannot be grabbed during tech recovery. That last one is very very specific but a character like Wolverine when in Berserker Charge + XF recovers so fast they he can throw you again while you are still tech recovering. Also you cannot option select a down + forward/back move with throws, this is mostly a nerf to characters like Wolverine/Vergil and air dashers who like to OS throws with diagonal dashes. You can still OS back and forward moves.
*- Throw tech window increased moderately.
* - Grounded throw techs put a distance of one full character between the person who initiated the grab and the one who teched the grab.
* - Grabs can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
* - TAC now costs one meter for every tag done in sequence.
* - A person caught in a combo that leads to a TAC from the attacker can pay a meter to counter the tag with their own tag in.
* - TAC combos are subject to hit stun decay the whole way through.
X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor now costs 1 bar, no limit on uses, only provides the cancel effect.
*XF2 and XF3 values decreased. New XF3 value is what XF2 value is now and new XF2 value is essentially current XF1.5 value. Current XF3 is active far too long and gives too much boost, in most cases it's the superior XF to choose unless your team is extremely point heavy.
Damage Changes:
*Damage reduced by roughly 1/2 to 1/3 across the board (chip damage buffed to 50% or so to ensure keepaway is still viable).
*Damage reduction by 1/3rd AFTER specific character damage changes. Chip damage slightly rescaled. Will do more damage on specials but LESS damage on normals. This is mostly because when I do my character specific stuff, characters like Sentinel and Ghost Rider will have chip on some of their normals and I have to rescale the chip value for normals because they would become too good with it otherwise (like Frank West is now, this also nerfs LVL4/5 Frank a bit and that is intentional). To counter the damage reduction, time is slightly increased... around 1/4th to 1/3rd more overall time to the round to avoid time outs.
*Mashable hyper damage reduced to Vanilla levels or somewhere in between Vanilla and Ultimate. Stuff like Fatal Claw, Hailstorm do way too much damage for 1 bar even at max scaling. This needs to be done on a case by case basis though because some characters don't need a reduction as much as others. If I had it my way I would reverse the mashing requirement altogether.
*Assist characters take less damage than before (still more than the point character). Damage scaling applies to them like normal characters in ALL situations. Assist characters go back out of the game after being comboed faster, less time to continuously OTG loop them. Cannot call assists a certain time after throw techs (it's a short window of cool down, this is mostly to prevent throw + assist option selects), cannot call assists at super jump height when a combo is dropped/reset is attempted and cannot call assists during tech roll. Finally if a point character is being comboed and an assist is called right before it, the assist character is completely disabled and cannot be hit nor does the assist comes out... this is pretty much MVC2 style and it prevents assists having "combo breaking" properties while still having some legitimate GTFO assists.
*- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
*HSD timer goes to full scaling faster. What this means is that certain characters like Doom and Magneto who just repeat a few loops over and over again until they reach max HSD will now have to do fewer loops (so if Doom can get like 4 relaunches he will now only get 3). This will definitely reduce some of the lengthier combos in the game.
Assist Changes:
*All characters either gain a permanent buff when they are the last character on a team or have a solo assist call option (I've discussed these before at length; they are better than X-Factor on principle).
* - Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
* - Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
Other Changes:
*Incoming character falling arc adjusted so it's more vertical and less horizontal.. making it easier to block/react to cross up attempts. No more guard break set ups can be applied to an incoming character until that character has touched the ground or has done some action. Incoming characters need more help than this but it's hard to come up with something because if you give too much then you are giving a character like Vergil or Strider more chance to make a comeback.
*First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
Frantic, how is your general character knowledge? I know you have some deep knowledge of the characters you use.Frankly, I would just remove throws during air dashes period. You can't do it on the ground, so why can you do it in the air?I just want to nerf Nova
I'd make it so at the start of the round you can super jump, dash, airdash, fly and all tha- wait, we're not talking about Koryuu edition? Drat.
When I'm less tired(freaking EVO messing with my sleep) I'll try to think up some system changes, I suppose.
I suppose that as part of my record keeper position, I will need to keep a running list of stuff people suggest as the conversation goes.
I assume we all know that removing throws during air dashes would be bad.
Alright, here is everything I have seen so far separated into categories. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A SUGGESTION, ADD A BOLD TITLE BEFORE IT SO I CAN FIND IT EASIER TO ADD TO THE LIST. This list is not clean, I just copy/pasted everything I saw posted about system changes for now. If your suggestion is not in here, it's because I missed it; point it out to me.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*TACs are non-breakable, no meter gain/loss when used, usable at any point in a combo, no HSD reset (basically, make it another combo option for teams).
*TAC system fixed. 20 frame window to counter a TAC that is highlighted by the required TAC. After a successful TAC counter the color of the TAC is shown (this should already be in the game though). HSD starts at 0 after TACs and builds back up to normal in air. Will still keep some characters useful in terms of TAC combos like Iron Man, MODOK, Doom but not give them ridiculous combos. Also TACs are now more like a true mix up in that you can actually react to them like throws in Tekken. 20 frames is just about what a normal human being can react to. This will generally make TACs less desirable than resets except when you desperately need to switch out a character after getting a hit. Also you are allowed unlimited chances to break TACs, no more TAC glitching someone into a guaranteed combo.
*using TAC'S cost you a meter and you no longer get any meter or get to steal any meter. HSD no longer goes to 0% either but gets reduced by 25% from where it was when you TAC'd. with that people will have to think about using TAC's instead of just mindlessly throwing them out there. if somebody breaks your TAC then you just got to hold dat.
*Honestly I would of just made it so TAC's are non breakable, don't gain or take meter, but have a 50% damage penalty attached to them for the remainder of the combo.
Throw Changes:
*Ground throw techs create slightly more space; techable throw time increased by 5 frames.
*Throw tech window increased, more space after tech and you cannot be grabbed during tech recovery. That last one is very very specific but a character like Wolverine when in Berserker Charge + XF recovers so fast they he can throw you again while you are still tech recovering. Also you cannot option select a down + forward/back move with throws, this is mostly a nerf to characters like Wolverine/Vergil and air dashers who like to OS throws with diagonal dashes. You can still OS back and forward moves.
*- Throw tech window increased moderately.
* - Grounded throw techs put a distance of one full character between the person who initiated the grab and the one who teched the grab.
* - Grabs can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
* - TAC now costs one meter for every tag done in sequence.
* - A person caught in a combo that leads to a TAC from the attacker can pay a meter to counter the tag with their own tag in.
* - TAC combos are subject to hit stun decay the whole way through.
X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor now costs 1 bar, no limit on uses, only provides the cancel effect.
*XF2 and XF3 values decreased. New XF3 value is what XF2 value is now and new XF2 value is essentially current XF1.5 value. Current XF3 is active far too long and gives too much boost, in most cases it's the superior XF to choose unless your team is extremely point heavy.
Damage Changes:
*Damage reduced by roughly 1/2 to 1/3 across the board (chip damage buffed to 50% or so to ensure keepaway is still viable).
*Damage reduction by 1/3rd AFTER specific character damage changes. Chip damage slightly rescaled. Will do more damage on specials but LESS damage on normals. This is mostly because when I do my character specific stuff, characters like Sentinel and Ghost Rider will have chip on some of their normals and I have to rescale the chip value for normals because they would become too good with it otherwise (like Frank West is now, this also nerfs LVL4/5 Frank a bit and that is intentional). To counter the damage reduction, time is slightly increased... around 1/4th to 1/3rd more overall time to the round to avoid time outs.
*Mashable hyper damage reduced to Vanilla levels or somewhere in between Vanilla and Ultimate. Stuff like Fatal Claw, Hailstorm do way too much damage for 1 bar even at max scaling. This needs to be done on a case by case basis though because some characters don't need a reduction as much as others. If I had it my way I would reverse the mashing requirement altogether.
*Assist characters take less damage than before (still more than the point character). Damage scaling applies to them like normal characters in ALL situations. Assist characters go back out of the game after being comboed faster, less time to continuously OTG loop them. Cannot call assists a certain time after throw techs (it's a short window of cool down, this is mostly to prevent throw + assist option selects), cannot call assists at super jump height when a combo is dropped/reset is attempted and cannot call assists during tech roll. Finally if a point character is being comboed and an assist is called right before it, the assist character is completely disabled and cannot be hit nor does the assist comes out... this is pretty much MVC2 style and it prevents assists having "combo breaking" properties while still having some legitimate GTFO assists.
*- Overall damage lowered to the "Low" setting as per training mode settings.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
*HSD timer goes to full scaling faster. What this means is that certain characters like Doom and Magneto who just repeat a few loops over and over again until they reach max HSD will now have to do fewer loops (so if Doom can get like 4 relaunches he will now only get 3). This will definitely reduce some of the lengthier combos in the game.
Assist Changes:
*All characters either gain a permanent buff when they are the last character on a team or have a solo assist call option (I've discussed these before at length; they are better than X-Factor on principle).
* - Assists depart with invul frames doing nothing if a combo has been initiated on the point character of the player who called said assist before they arrive on screen.
* - Assists cannot be called during wakeup frames or rolls.
Other Changes:
*Incoming character falling arc adjusted so it's more vertical and less horizontal.. making it easier to block/react to cross up attempts. No more guard break set ups can be applied to an incoming character until that character has touched the ground or has done some action. Incoming characters need more help than this but it's hard to come up with something because if you give too much then you are giving a character like Vergil or Strider more chance to make a comeback.
*First order of business, I have decided that all snapbacks cost red health instead of meter.
I definitely agree with there being damage reduction or something that is the functional equivalent of damage reduction (increased health across the board). If we went with a one third reduction, who would still be able to ToD? Some characters would certainly still be able to. This might also lead to increased level 1 x-factor usage since ToD combos will be much less common otherwise.Dahbomb said:
Im fine with this. They should make it much easier to get the full mashable hits too- theyd probably want to leave mashing in for legacy reasons since they specifically put it into ultimate, but it should adjusted so people dont have to destroy their buttons and itd make it easier on pad players as well.Dahbomb said:
For TACs, I think we have to compare their risk/reward compared to other options for their two main aspects 1) swapping out a character and 2) combo extension/resets.Dahbomb said:
Ways to swap out characters:
-Raw tag- costs no resources, involves risk but smart players can still often tag this way w/o losing a character, their character must be on the ground and not have an assist on screen. Incoming character loses red health. I think raw tags should no longer hit overhead.
-DHC- costs two meters and your point character must be in a position where they can do a hyper. Requires smart team construction so that your next characters hyper brings them in safely.
-Crossover counter- costs one meter, must be in guardstun, and it requires smart team construction so that your incoming character doesnt get bopped when they come in.
-TACs (currently)- must land a hit on your opponent and then you have a 2/3 chance of success, and if you fail, you take a negligible amount of damage but arent otherwise penalized.
Id say in terms of tagging out a character, its OK (since its the only method that requires you to land a hit), but obviously the issue is using TACs instead of resets. As is, TACs are strictly better than resets, which is absurd. Whatever is done with TACs, they shouldnt remove real resets as a strong tactic at high level play. TACs have a 2/3 chance of success and essentially no risk currently. Resets tend to be 50/50s and many involve at least some risk to both your point character and assist character (if you mistime it, they mash out a reversal, etc. you could be happy b-dayed). TACs need to not be better than resets, especially since they also let you tag a character out in addition to giving you combo extension.
Making TAC breaks reactable would definitely be an improvement, but I dont know if I like the idea that it becomes a pure test of reactions. TACs also ruin the importance of meter management (this was true even before the discovery of infinites). The rock-paper-scissors aspect of TACs currently comes from options weighted by meter differences- side and down cause a one meter swing and up only gives a tiny damage boost. TACs also currently reset normal HSD and keep it at 0 until you hit the ground (barring infinites). What if TACs merely reset HSD to 0 for a fixed time after which it pops back to what it ought to be, and the length of zero HSD you get depends on direction or something? In that case, the rock-paper-scissors is you guessing how greedy your opponent is for a longer post-TAC combo, but aside from that, there is no meter gain/steal and since the HSD reset is for a fixed period of time, infinites are removed. HSD reset for the longest option would still give players a bit of time for TAC swag combos w/o having it get too out of hand.
I agree with this.Dahbomb said:
Why do you want assists to take less damage? Assists already take properly scaled damage in ultimate (unlike vanilla). I like the idea of not being able to call assists at super jump height during drops and resets and not being able to call assists during tech rolls. Do you really think the combo-breaking situation you mentioned is something that happens often enough that it needs to be addressed? Assists will already be harder to kill as assists with your system changes since damage will be reduced across the board.Dahbomb said:
This is good.Dahbomb said:
I would want to be careful of this. I think current HSD is mostly OK. The characters with long boring combos (Zero, Vergil) have moves that allow them to circumvent HSD entirely now, and they will be adjusted on a character specific basis anyway. I like character-by-character combo adjustments over system-wide reduction.Dahbomb said:
I dont agree with this. I think XF2 and XF3 on a system level are fine, and its character balance issues (Vergil!) that make it seem worse than it is. In our system change suggestions, we already want lower damage anyway, which will reduce the ability of a XF3 character to make a comeback.Dahbomb said:
Agreed on guard break set-ups being removed. My suggestion is allow the player whose character is incoming to delay their character coming in to give them a way to escape mix-ups. This way, their opponent has to actually react as your character comes in to still get a mix-up, so the incoming situation isnt a one player game. Make delaying your incoming character slightly cost meter so that meter management is rewarded and people cant do it for free and have to weigh their options. If you wanted to take it further, you could have it so you just straight up spend an entire meter to come in on the opposite side of the screen, but that might be too much.Dahbomb said:
Pretty good, I'd say! The only real character I don't know a lot about is Rocket Raccoon, honestly. And maybe Shuma. Other than that, I'd say I know a lot.
I also won Kadey's little random all tournament, so there is that.
Karst please delete that snapback change, that was a troll.
My home internet just went down and I am now on my phone, which means it's hard to make long multi quote posts now. I will make a post tomorrow to explain those changes that Zissou responded to. Until then some bullet points.
*Snapback being linked to red life is dumb because the person who is on top needs to get hit in order to snap in an important character. I am destroying the opposite team with no real damage done to me but I really want to snap in that Vergil and Phoenix. All this does is punish perfect play and the person who is actually winning while buffing anchor characters.
*A lot of top players have picked up on the whole "mash Hidden Missiles to get out of super jump reset" especially the Norcal players. Even Jam Session and Vajra players have started doing it now. It's a super scummy tactic and it will onlu become more prevalent pushing people to just keep relying on either Zero or TACs.
My home internet just went down and I am now on my phone, which means it's hard to make long multi quote posts now. I will make a post tomorrow to explain those changes that Zissou responded to. Until then some bullet points.
*Snapback being linked to red life is dumb because the person who is on top needs to get hit in order to snap in an important character. I am destroying the opposite team with no real damage done to me but I really want to snap in that Vergil and Phoenix. All this does is punish perfect play and the person who is actually winning while buffing anchor characters.
*A lot of top players have picked up on the whole "mash Hidden Missiles to get out of super jump reset" especially the Norcal players. Even Jam Session and Vajra players have started doing it now. It's a super scummy tactic and it will onlu become more prevalent pushing people to just keep relying on either Zero or TACs.
Karsticles
Member
So do you want in the committee role? Or do you just want to make suggestions?Pretty good, I'd say! The only real character I don't know a lot about is Rocket Raccoon, honestly. And maybe Shuma. Other than that, I'd say I know a lot.
I also won Kadey's little random all tournament, so there is that.
Troll or not, I think it's interesting and want to sleep on it.
you would still be limited to 2 TAC's like you currently are.
I'll just make suggestions.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Xfactor Changes-
Xfactor never goes past level 1
Xfactor duration last longer depending on how many characters you have left.
Xfactor characters become balanced with the xfactor making up for a characters downsides.
If the character is balanced in speed and power they get an even boost to both
For example
hulk would get high speed low damage
firebrand would get high damage low speed
nova would get medium damage and speed
Xfactor never goes past level 1
Xfactor duration last longer depending on how many characters you have left.
Xfactor characters become balanced with the xfactor making up for a characters downsides.
If the character is balanced in speed and power they get an even boost to both
For example
hulk would get high speed low damage
firebrand would get high damage low speed
nova would get medium damage and speed
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's only really a troll because I didn't think about it. The obvious problems are that you can't use it at the start of the round or twice in a row.
Now, snapbacks creating red health might be interesting. Anything to incentivize their use.
Now, snapbacks creating red health might be interesting. Anything to incentivize their use.
The reason I suggested XF2/XF3 scaling is because in a lower damage game XF would simply sticks out more. Right now XF in terms of damage is not that big of a deal because TODs are rampant. In a lower damage setting when TODs are only available with a ton of meter or XF it makes XF more impactful on the whole game. Someone gets 6-7 mix ups with full combos on the opposition without XF while the other person gets 3 hits and still kills with all those hits.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70776376]It's only really a troll because I didn't think about it. The obvious problems are that you can't use it at the start of the round or twice in a row.
Now, snapbacks creating red health might be interesting. Anything to incentivize their use.[/QUOTE]
Snapbacks are now meterless but cost 100k life to use.
Now, snapbacks creating red health might be interesting. Anything to incentivize their use.[/QUOTE]
Snapbacks are now meterless but cost 100k life to use.
biosnake20
Member
Snapbacks should stay the same. Also XF1 should have no damage boosts across the board.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Snapbacks are now meterless but cost 100k life to use.
sick-ass 11-snapback anchor haggar comeback combos
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Well that's easy, make them cost only half a bar and make them all invincible but non super cancelable.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Let's give all the shit characters invincible assists. Balance done.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70778156]Let's give all the shit characters invincible assists. Balance done.[/QUOTE]
The capcom way
The capcom way
Some would still lead to combos even without hyper-cancels (Morrigan fly-cancelling shadow blade, wall/ground bounce assists, etc.)
@Dahbomb: I realized that I could pretty much agree with you wholesale but still felt the need to type it all out so we could all have our piece out there in the open. You also did good with some things I'd have never thought of like the mash jab nerf.
I really had to type it all out though because I liked the idea of the new TAC there. No meter gain on followup combo from
Good call.
As for the movement prematch, the main reason that was a question and not a point on my list was because of Magneto mirror chest bumps being a part of the Mahvel way. I like it, no lies, but it's also one of the aspects of the game that needs reining in, whether with a direct no movement nerf or (more realistically/hopefully) making it so that getting stuck in a multi-layer mixup or faced with a powerful option from the jump doesn't equal game over automatically.
Hell, I play Viper and after learning how hard it is for people to deal with instant overhead j.H + Jam Session setups if they aren't Hulk or a walking back midget, I support the nerfing of some opening gambits. :lol
I really had to type it all out though because I liked the idea of the new TAC there. No meter gain on followup combo from
Frankly, I would just remove throws during air dashes period. You can't do it on the ground, so why can you do it in the air?I just want to nerf Nova
Good call.
As for the movement prematch, the main reason that was a question and not a point on my list was because of Magneto mirror chest bumps being a part of the Mahvel way. I like it, no lies, but it's also one of the aspects of the game that needs reining in, whether with a direct no movement nerf or (more realistically/hopefully) making it so that getting stuck in a multi-layer mixup or faced with a powerful option from the jump doesn't equal game over automatically.
Hell, I play Viper and after learning how hard it is for people to deal with instant overhead j.H + Jam Session setups if they aren't Hulk or a walking back midget, I support the nerfing of some opening gambits. :lol
biosnake20
Member
Guys just make all backdashes invincible.