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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

I know this is a double post but I wanted to separate it from the previous thread.

Here are my suggestions for system changes.

*Damage reduction by 1/3rd AFTER specific character damage changes. Chip damage slightly rescaled. Will do more damage on specials but LESS damage on normals. This is mostly because when I do my character specific stuff, characters like Sentinel and Ghost Rider will have chip on some of their normals and I have to rescale the chip value for normals because they would become too good with it otherwise (like Frank West is now, this also nerfs LVL4/5 Frank a bit and that is intentional). To counter the damage reduction, time is slightly increased... around 1/4th to 1/3rd more overall time to the round to avoid time outs.
Good change; I would do the same.

*Mashable hyper damage reduced to Vanilla levels or somewhere in between Vanilla and Ultimate. Stuff like Fatal Claw, Hailstorm do way too much damage for 1 bar even at max scaling. This needs to be done on a case by case basis though because some characters don't need a reduction as much as others. If I had it my way I would reverse the mashing requirement altogether.
Ditto.

Keep in mind that reducing mashable hyper damage is a THC nerf, since to do so you will have to nerf non-mashed hyper damage. That means character hypers that get called in during THCs will be worse, as will early DHC setups like Ice Storm -> Hyper Sentinel Force. I don't approve of that.

*TAC system fixed. 20 frame window to counter a TAC that is highlighted by the required TAC. After a successful TAC counter the color of the TAC is shown (this should already be in the game though). HSD starts at 0 after TACs and builds back up to normal in air. Will still keep some characters useful in terms of TAC combos like Iron Man, MODOK, Doom but not give them ridiculous combos. Also TACs are now more like a true mix up in that you can actually react to them like throws in Tekken. 20 frames is just about what a normal human being can react to. This will generally make TACs less desirable than resets except when you desperately need to switch out a character after getting a hit. Also you are allowed unlimited chances to break TACs, no more TAC glitching someone into a guaranteed combo.
Blech. Still a bad system.

*Throw tech window increased, more space after tech and you cannot be grabbed during tech recovery. That last one is very very specific but a character like Wolverine when in Berserker Charge + XF recovers so fast they he can throw you again while you are still tech recovering. Also you cannot option select a down + forward/back move with throws, this is mostly a nerf to characters like Wolverine/Vergil and air dashers who like to OS throws with diagonal dashes. You can still OS back and forward moves.
Good changes.

*Assist characters take less damage than before (still more than the point character). Damage scaling applies to them like normal characters in ALL situations. Assist characters go back out of the game after being comboed faster, less time to continuously OTG loop them. Cannot call assists a certain time after throw techs (it's a short window of cool down, this is mostly to prevent throw + assist option selects), cannot call assists at super jump height when a combo is dropped/reset is attempted and cannot call assists during tech roll. Finally if a point character is being comboed and an assist is called right before it, the assist character is completely disabled and cannot be hit nor does the assist comes out... this is pretty much MVC2 style and it prevents assists having "combo breaking" properties while still having some legitimate GTFO assists.
Losing the combo breaker is a good chance. Wolverine/Doom is so dumb because it lets Wolverine do whatever the hell he wants without consequence every 90 frames or so, because Plasma Beam catches everything.

If damage is already being nerfed, I don't know if assist damage needs to be nerfed. I think OTG looping assists should be easy - you got punished, eat it.

*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
I think I like this change, but I'm not certain.

*HSD timer goes to full scaling faster. What this means is that certain characters like Doom and Magneto who just repeat a few loops over and over again until they reach max HSD will now have to do fewer loops (so if Doom can get like 4 relaunches he will now only get 3). This will definitely reduce some of the lengthier combos in the game.
It wouldn't change anything, because you would need to add more HSD to a lot of other combos in response. New broken stuff would come up. If you want Doom or Magneto to have shorter combos, just change their HSD values.

*XF2 and XF3 values decreased. New XF3 value is what XF2 value is now and new XF2 value is essentially current XF1.5 value. Current XF3 is active far too long and gives too much boost, in most cases it's the superior XF to choose unless your team is extremely point heavy.
Blech. XF2 and XF3 are fair right now. You'll just make everyone go back to XF1 burns.

*Incoming character falling arc adjusted so it's more vertical and less horizontal.. making it easier to block/react to cross up attempts. No more guard break set ups can be applied to an incoming character until that character has touched the ground or has done some action. Incoming characters need more help than this but it's hard to come up with something because if you give too much then you are giving a character like Vergil or Strider more chance to make a comeback.
A thought: what if the non-incoming character player had assists disabled just like the incoming character does? It's already bad enough that a player has to come in through a pre-decided side, but now they have to mess with an assist as well. That's a big problem. Also, maybe let players choose which side they come in on.

I like the current TACs. But then again I use them so I'm clearly biased.
Making TACs non-random just means you could get Frank in guaranteed.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I don't think XF3 is that fair right now. XF2 gives you enough juice to run through a team, XF3 is overkill at times.

But the main reason I nerfed XF is because of the universal damage nerf. If XF values remained the same then XF would become a major source of damage. The reason why currently XF values seem alright is because characters are dying in one combo anyway. When damage is low XF will stick out more. One guy has to get 6-7 hits plus combos to win the match without XF under new damage nerf...the other guy with XF3 can still TOD entire team with 3 hits.

Can't really afford to nerf XF1 any further because right now it lasts just long enough until most characters die and gives you just enough juice to kill one character in reasonable time. Under new changes you will still be able to kill but just barely however if XF1 was nerfed to a point where killing a character wasn't guaranteed no one would really use it.
 

FSLink

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70539141]I was on my feet half of top 8.[/QUOTE]

Seriously.

evo13-dante-2406mlr4.gif


Soooo sick. Stealing so hard.
 
I'm so fucking salty that I did better in SF4 than I did in Marvel. I haven't played SF4 since the beginning of this year! I mean I suppose it helps that I had no tournament nerves at all during SF because I expected to get completely bodied and go 0-2. Hell I would've made it out of my pool if it wasn't for the fact that Jebailey sent me to losers in my first set. What's funny is that I almost beat him in my second match when I switched characters.

Anyway.....as for Marvel....I had the fucking jitters and I was using a controller I wasn't comfortable with. It just sucks because I know I could've easily beaten everyone in that pool. I was dropping so many things and I still won a few sets. At least I gave some kid an Evo moment. I tried to time him out and he beat me right when the clock hit 0.\

Still had fun though.

Wish Justin would've won.
 
Dante mix-up blew my mind. I've known about that for a long time, but it never had any practical application. Teleporting with Dormammu after a snapback does weird stuff.

can sum1 pls link me to new gods tier list

thx
1. Flocker
2. ChrisG
3. JWong
4. FChamp
5. PR Balrog

Though if PR Balrog has really retired, then a suite on Olympus is opening up.
 

smurfx

get some go again
heh two characters on my team have won evo titles. haggar/hawkeye doing work while task is falling behind. does that make me a tier whore? :p i also used zero during vanilla and early into ultimate.
 

FSLink

Banned
This was the only time during the tournament where I actually sat back and said "WHOA" out loud.

Incredible.
At first I was like "Whoa, accidentally swapped into Dante instead of calling Jam Session" and then he teleported and I was like "OHHHHHHHHH".

Well now I'm motivated to go back into the lab and level up my Dante some more...
 

Dahbomb

Member
There is no "new" tier list for the gods of Marvel, it's the same as before EVO. ChrisG, FChamp, Flocker, Justin PRRog. The only thing that would change on it is PRRog since he might be retiring.

Flocker and Justin performed exceptionally at EVO but another tournmen and you might have different results with ChrisG on top or even Champ (EVO Champ not sandbag Champ).

I think Ranmasama is insanely good, he is on the cusp of a major win. I think if Neo gets a good Zero going he can be up there as well.
 

Vice

Member
There is no "new" tier list for the gods of Marvel, it's the same as before EVO. ChrisG, FChamp, Flocker, Justin PRRog. The only thing that would change on it is PRRog since he might be retiring.

Flocker and Justin performed exceptionally at EVO but another tournmen and you might have different results with ChrisG on top or even Champ (EVO Champ not sandbag Champ).

I think Ranmasama is insanely good, he is on the cusp of a major win. I think if Neo gets a good Zero going he can be up there as well.
Sadly, it's likely he's going to be too busy soon. Then again he's always been pretty good at balancing play and personal business.

Hopefully online improves now that a net warrior has placed so well at Evo.
 
Dante mix-up blew my mind. I've known about that for a long time, but it never had any practical application. Teleporting with Dormammu after a snapback does weird stuff.
I could have sworn I talked about this...Back when a glitch was brand new. Nova's? Morrigan and Strider's? I don't remember. But I'm sure I said something about it.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
So.

Are there any definitive resources for learning Dr. Doom and/or Strider, such as particularly good videos or guides? I'll be grinding it out in either case but anything to speed this along would be nice.

So...

Yipes says something like "the game is 10% figured out" on stream all the time

I've seen other people argue that so many people play and communicate and upload tech nowadays that the game is mostly mapped out.

What do you guys think about that? I have no idea myself...it seems like admitting the latter is saying that some Zero/?/Vergil team is gonna be the end game. But the former doesn't quite seem right either.
Information spreads faster these days, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's discovered or applied faster. We had no idea that TAC infinites were in vanilla MvC3, after all.
 

Zissou

Member
So.

Are there any definitive resources for learning Dr. Doom and/or Strider, such as particularly good videos or guides? I'll be grinding it out in either case but anything to speed this along would be nice.

I play both characters but information is all over the place and there's no central resource with all of the necessary info for either of the characters, as far as I know. Many people here play both characters, so I imagine info won't be hard to come by, in any case. You going Felicia/Doom/Strider or something?
 

Dahbomb

Member
Random fact but among all 3 EVO Grand Finals there have been a total of 6 different players and 18 different characters.

Wolverine
Dante
Ammy
Tron
Haggar
Wesker
Phoenix
Magneto
Dormammu
Doom
Nova
Sentinel
Spencer
Zero
Vergil
Hawkeye
Storm
Akuma


Wolverine is the only character who has repeated his performance.
 
There is no "new" tier list for the gods of Marvel, it's the same as before EVO. ChrisG, FChamp, Flocker, Justin PRRog. The only thing that would change on it is PRRog since he might be retiring.

Flocker and Justin performed exceptionally at EVO but another tournmen and you might have different results with ChrisG on top or even Champ (EVO Champ not sandbag Champ).

I think Ranmasama is insanely good, he is on the cusp of a major win. I think if Neo gets a good Zero going he can be up there as well.

Marn will replace PR Rog :3
 
Street Fighter 4 is getting another update.
It will be our turn next, right guys?
Hey, at least we have Smash to look forward to...right?

It's unfortunate that there are amazing IPs all over the place, but we're still sitting here in doubt about the future of what we love.
 

onionfrog

Member
Hey, at least we have Smash to look forward to...right?
True. I think Smash will be great as long as it doesn't turn out like Brawl.

I may have to actually start playing AE again.
I've hardly played any SSF4 since the vanilla release

Capcom planning to include all previous costume DLC in the physical release of USF4 is too good.
 
True. I think Smash will be great as long as it doesn't turn out like Brawl.

I may have to actually start playing AE again.
I've hardly played any SSF4 since the vanilla release

Capcom planning to include all previous costume DLC in the physical release of USF4 is too good.
Smash should 100% be designed with competitive gamers in mind. Casuals won't know or care about the game's quality so long as it has the same basic mechanics and new characters. I suck at AE, so feel free to hit me up for matches sometime.

when did pr rog say he was retiring, and what exactly did he say?
https://twitter.com/PR_Balrog/status/356318005027815427

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";70618631]Fuck Smash for no crossplay and fuck Capcom for 90% of the relevant additions to SF4 being recycled content.

:-([/QUOTE]
You mean 80%.

And Smash without crossplay is better. You don't want to be facing 3DS users on the Wii U. :p

I'd prefer that no 3DS version get made at all.
 
Crossplay on SFxT is pretty amazing.

Considering online with most 3DS games I don't see a problem with smash not having crossplay.

I don't necessarily agree that "should 100% be designed with competitive gamers in mind". It's not Nintendo's goal to make it a competitive game.

Look at all the recent BS with evo wanting to stream smash.
 
Crossplay on SFxT is pretty amazing.

Considering online with most 3DS games I don't see a problem with smash not having crossplay.

I don't necessarily agree that "should 100% be designed with competitive gamers in mind". It's not Nintendo's goal to make it a competitive game.

Look at all the recent BS with evo wanting to stream smash.
Right, that's the mistake I'm pointing out.

Nintendo will discover what crossplay is in 2018, believe.
I'm pretty sure they know, since Monster Hunter 3U has crossplay and cross-saving.
 
Monster Hunter 3Us cross play is a little different than most cross-play as the 3DS had to be connected to a Wii U to play with other people online, but yea.

I wouldn't say it's a mistake by Nintendo, as it's not going to really generate many sales. Obviously it would be better if it were balanced but Nintendo is pretty terrible about releasing updates to any game.

You could say the same thing about Mario Kart I suppose but I don't specifically see the point.
 
Monster Hunter 3Us cross play is a little different than most cross-play as the 3DS had to be connected to a Wii U to play with other people online, but yea.

I wouldn't say it's a mistake by Nintendo, as it's not going to really generate many sales. Obviously it would be better if it were balanced but Nintendo is pretty terrible about releasing updates to any game.

You could say the same thing about Mario Kart I suppose but I don't specifically see the point.
Wrong. Competitive gaming generates sales. Look at how KoF has survived despite its crash landing.

And sales aren't even the point. Even if it doesn't increase the sales by 1 copy, a better game is a better game, and Nintendo should want to make better games.
 
Wrong. Competitive gaming generates sales.

And sales aren't even the point. Even if it doesn't increase the sales by 1 copy, a better game is a better game, and Nintendo should want to make better games.

I never said they didn't. I just said it wouldn't make a significant impact on Smash in general.

If they wanted to make it with 100% competitive in mind they wouldn't include items as they are never allowed in competition. Completely defeats the purpose of smash.

Isn't that kind of what they wanted with PSABR? That game sucks.
 
I never said they didn't. I just said it wouldn't make a significant impact on Smash in general.

If they wanted to make it with 100% competitive in mind they wouldn't include items as they are never allowed in competition. Completely defeats the purpose of smash.

Isn't that kind of what they wanted with PSABR? That game sucks.
I'm not saying they should redesign Smash, I'm saying that they should focus on the competitive aspect. Items and crazy stages are fine - that's part of what makes the game a blast sometimes. But the core focus should go toward developing a competitive game. Casuals will love the game no matter what. That was my point, not that they should change what the game is.
 
I'm not saying they should redesign Smash, I'm saying that they should focus on the competitive aspect. Items and crazy stages are fine - that's part of what makes the game a blast sometimes. But the core focus should go toward developing a competitive game. Casuals will love the game no matter what. That was my point, not that they should change what the game is.

I'm just arguing that having 100% aim on competition with that game would be bad. Having competitions in mind wouldn't hurt, but it being the sole focus of the game wouldn't make for a good smash game.
 
I'm just arguing that having 100% aim on competition with that game would be bad. Having competitions in mind wouldn't hurt, but it being the sole focus of the game wouldn't make for a good smash game.
But that's what Sakurai did with Melee...he has said that he spent an enormous amount of time ensuring that every character was well balanced. Brawl, on the other hand, feels slapped together. It's the difference between a finely tuned fighting game engine with well balanced characters and floaty crap with half of the cast unusable, tripping, ridiculous OP items (not even fun anymore), final smash gimmicks, and SSE.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
I'm pretty sure they know, since Monster Hunter 3U has crossplay and cross-saving.
More Capcom, but yeah. Nintendo just has been talk about integrating handhelds experiences with extended connectivity with consoles since GBA/GC and have been so slow to progress. Vita pretty much did it all in one swoop.

I think no crossplay was more of a game design decision though, with a side of them not wanting to put the work in tho figure out how to do it properly. Sorta like online in Brawl.

Wrong. Competitive gaming generates sales. Look at how KoF has survived despite its crash landing.

And sales aren't even the point. Even if it doesn't increase the sales by 1 copy, a better game is a better game, and Nintendo should want to make better games.
KoF is a counterexample. We don't really have good sales numbers on it, and I think they're just assumed to be horrible all around, and the community has dropped off the map in most regions and it has the biggest dropoff in entrants at EVO too.

I would say something like LoL is a better example of generating revenue through competition. StarCraft too.
 

Dahbomb

Member
KOF had the biggest drop off because last year they had the free t shirt thing. That really inflated the numbers because a lot of people signed up just for the heck of it.

I am not saying KOF was some big sales success but it did continue to get consistent sales for an extended time. Same thing is happening with UMVC3. Also KOF would've done much better if it had marketing and decent netcode.

You can't make a game that is exclusively a competitive game either despite how good it is. No casual is going to want to buy a fighter with 0 single player content, no decent online play or functionality and just a single stage with two modes only (Training and Versus). This is especially true for new IPs.

Out of all the fighting game companies out there its really only NRS who gets the balance. They both care about adding single player content and catering to the competitive side of things. This is why their fighters sell really well although you could say that MK had a big legacy and Injustice had the DC games going for it.
 
I was thinking more along what Dahbomb said for KoF.

And man, NRS is so typical of western studios. Understands how to support the game, but makes a shitty game. Meanwhile, some JP company makes a great game, and fails to support it.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Injustice is a perfectly alright fighter, not shitty by any means. Obviously not pleasing to the eyes but plays fine and is fun.

And Capcom's support for SF4 has been excellent actually. If SFxT was half the success of SF4 you can bet your candy ass they would support it a lot too. Hell that game is still being featured at Capcom Cup.
 
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