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[Amir0x]

I mean people say they want it harder, that makes no sense to me.

Again, this is all self-explanatory. People want platforming to be harder, thus, challenging. They want it to be challenging because things that are challenging tend to have a higher sense of reward for completing them.

I prefer all my games to be hard. I don't like that pussy shit. I like Uncharted, but yeah the platforming in the first could have been harder. It was all incredibly simple. I hope they did increase the difficulty somewhat.

 

[Loudninja]

Again, this is all self-explanatory. People want platforming to be harder, thus, challenging. They want it to be challenging because things that are challenging tend to have a higher sense of reward for completing them.

I prefer all my games to be hard. I don't like that pussy shit. I like Uncharted, but yeah the platforming in the first could have been harder. It was all incredibly simple. I hope they did increase the difficulty somewhat.

But how can you make it harder? that's what I am talking about.

 

[TheFallen]

My media blackout is killing me. This was always going to be my most wanted game. After the E3 blowout I promised I'd watch nothing until the game releases. I've passed over gameplay vids, trailers, reviews both print and video, gave up my beta code and promised myself I would never be Killzone2'd again.

Its damn near fucking killing me.

10 days.

I'm in the same boat. I also did this for the original game. Much of the Uncharted experience to me is the single player - the high octane action and story, so I've been persistent with avoiding trailers, videos, and even the beta/demos.

 

[autobzooty]

But how can you make it harder? that's what I am talking about.

For starters, remove the way Drake magnetically flies wherever the game wants him to go next. Right now, you can just vaguely press the control stick in a direction, jump, and Drake will always jump right towards the next ledge.

 

[Milk Lizard]

But how can you make it harder? that's what I am talking about.

You make the camera angles really shitty like in tomb raider.

 

[Amir0x]

But how can you make it harder? that's what I am talking about.

What do you mean? Far more frequency of timing based platform challenges, and shit that forces you to react quicker (like the breakable ledges, only they break faster and require more twitch reaction). Platforms which require more precise jumping skills - i.e., you have to jump at just the right moment to reach the next platform. Platforms that are "just barely reachable", in other words, only if you jump at the very last moment. Uncharted 1's window for platforming was a bit too wide and automatic, allowing you plenty of room for mistakes.

There are tons of ways. Tomb Raider games actually have a lot of very complex and difficult platforming, for all the shit the franchise gets about camera angles. It's often quite well designed.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

But how can you make it harder? that's what I am talking about.

When you start your jump, you have to do a QCF + X, then go through a series of 12 button QTEs, then furiously shake your controller to make a good landing.

 

[McLovin]

It would be pretty bad ass if you get a rock slide or small avalanche pushing you through one of the platforming sections. Giving you multiple paths.. some of which are wrong. That would make it more challenging. Hopefully they did something like that in this one.

 

[JSnake]

Uncharted 2's platforming isn't necessarily more difficult but it is far more exciting and I felt that I still got the same sense of reward and accomplishment that I would gain from a difficult segment. The game does a very good job of making you go "oh shit how am I gonna get through this?" Not because the gaps between platforms are huge or anything but because it's like "holy shit this is insane look at all this shit flying everywhere oh god the building is falling apart jesus christ." There arw many segments like this and while they're not all very hard, they still make you feel like you had to fight tooth and nail to survive.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Uncharted is one of those games that's all about the spectacle, for me.

I don't want to be dying repeatedly during a particularly challenging section, I'd rather just play through it 'cinematically', at least the first time, anyway.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Again, this is all self-explanatory. People want platforming to be harder, thus, challenging. They want it to be challenging because things that are challenging tend to have a higher sense of reward for completing them.

I prefer all my games to be hard. I don't like that pussy shit. I like Uncharted, but yeah the platforming in the first could have been harder. It was all incredibly simple. I hope they did increase the difficulty somewhat.

Agreed. Like in the first game; the section where Drake has to run across that collapsing bridge was awesome, but would have been much more satisfying if it wasn't so damn easy.

 

[autobzooty]

Agreed. Like in the first game; the section where Drake has to run across that collapsing bridge was awesome, but would have been much more satisfying if it wasn't so damn easy.

Maybe, but if you died in that section, the whole awesome-factor would be totally ruined. You'd feel cheated for being killed when you weren't prepared, and the element of surprise would be ruined when you had to do it a second time.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Maybe, but if you died in that section, the whole awesome-factor would be totally ruined. You'd feel cheated for being killed when you weren't prepared, and you wouldn't be surprised when you had to do it a second time.

actually, id probably be more likely to yell "HOLY SHIT" in awe, and then retry it. Also, it would make for much better replayability.

 

[Amir0x]

Maybe, but if you died in that section, the whole awesome-factor would be totally ruined. You'd feel cheated for being killed when you weren't prepared, and the element of surprise would be ruined when you had to do it a second time.

In games like this, you're supposed to be prepared for anything. That's the whole point of being "twitch reaction", to allow the gamer to utilize the skills he has learned up until that point to best incredible odds.

It's silly to say that this would amount to feeling 'cheated' if you lost during a surprise moment that requires quick reaction time. The only way you can feel cheated about something like that is if:

a.) You're a big sore loser bitch.
b.) The games mechanical problems prevented you from beating that segment; i.e., it was not your fault for losing.

I'm not sure we should be pandering to the sore loser bitch crowd; and Uncharted doesn't seem to have those mechanical problems.

 

[autobzooty]

actually, id probably be more likely to yell "HOLY SHIT" in awe, and then retry it. Also, it would make for much better replayability.

Replayability is a good point. Maybe they should make certain changes to scenes like these for the "crushing" difficulty, which you would have to unlock. So since you'd be on your second playthrough, an untimely death wouldn't ruin the moment for you, but you'd have a bit of a challenge to balance out the lack of surprise.

In games like this, you're supposed to be prepared for anything. That's the whole point of being "twitch reaction", to allow the gamer to utilize the skills he has learned up until that point to best incredible odds.

It's silly to say that this would amount to feeling 'cheated' if you lost during a surprise moment that requires quick reaction time. The only way you can feel cheated about something like that is if:

a.) You're a big sore loser bitch.
b.) The games mechanical problems prevented you from beating that segment; i.e., it was not your fault for losing.

I'm not sure we should be pandering to the sore loser bitch crowd; and Uncharted doesn't seem to have those mechanical problems.

Maybe "cheated" was a bad choice of words, but it would really ruin the moment for me. The only way I could see getting around this is if a moment like this happened so frequently that these "moments" would feel more disposable. It would also help in keeping the player constantly prepared for anything. That would definitely be cool. Maybe for Uncharted 3.

On a somewhat related note, does Uncharted 2 have any quick time events? :\

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Replayability is a good point. Maybe they should make certain changes to scenes like these for the "crushing" difficulty, which you would have to unlock. So since you'd be on your second playthrough, an untimely death wouldn't ruin the moment for you, but you'd have a bit of a challenge to balance out the lack of surprise.

See, i could totally get down with that.

 

[ezekial45]

Anyone else going to the Uncharted events for tomorrow?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

There's not really a lot ND could do it the way of platforming difficulty without it being really annoying thanks to the way the engine seems to work (the way Drake's animations sync up to every ledge and all that, it seems that after every jump, Drake locks onto the target if you're facing in the right direction).

UC tried adding a difficult platforming section, and it was one of the worst parts in the game (the only bit I can think of at the moment is that bit outside the Fortress where you're swinging back and forth on the vines; the very last vine had really bizarre timing required to make the jump from it to the ledge; it was more annoying than challenging, as it was the only instance like that in the whole game). My point being that unless they changed the platforming model they have in the game, they'd have to resort to really cheap tactics to make those sections difficult.

 

[YoungHav]

What? I don't remember COD having 14 maps. Are you smoking?

EDIT:
Okay, it had 16. But it only had like 4 or 5 good maps.

I would rather have 7 well-balanced, thought-out maps than 4-5 good ones with 9 crap ones.

Map taste is subjective but I liked 6/8 maps in KZ2 and disliked less than a handful out of the 16 CoD4 maps. Variety wins; only so many times you can play the same 8maps.

 

[Stinkles]

In games like this, you're supposed to be prepared for anything. That's the whole point of being "twitch reaction", to allow the gamer to utilize the skills he has learned up until that point to best incredible odds.

It's silly to say that this would amount to feeling 'cheated' if you lost during a surprise moment that requires quick reaction time. The only way you can feel cheated about something like that is if:

a.) You're a big sore loser bitch.
b.) The games mechanical problems prevented you from beating that segment; i.e., it was not your fault for losing.

I'm not sure we should be pandering to the sore loser bitch crowd; and Uncharted doesn't seem to have those mechanical problems.

I disagree. For me, platforming should err on the easy side so that you can enjoy the sensation of being AWESOME. Which is why Super Mario, early Sonic, Jumping Flash and Crackdown are all easy. To let you enjoy the feeling of freedom and sheer ability without constant punishment.

 

[Amir0x]

There are plenty of platforming challenges in all those titles you mentioned with platforming segments infinitely harder than what is found in Uncharted.

No, pandering to the pussy gamer set should not be the goal of game developers. It should be the goal to create extremely well designed and clever challenges which are beatable should you put in the effort to learn the mechanics well, but don't reward those manchildren who throw controllers when they die twice in a row because they suck at games and also life.

One always feels way more awesome when they finish something that is hard. Working for something is more rewarding that it being handed to you.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

you're missing the point, it's not about "pandering to the pussy player", it's about keeping things flowing and cinematic, which, say what you want about the design decisions ND make, but that seems to be pretty damn high, if not priority number one, on their freaking design doc. It's basically the mission-statement of the UC series.

You want UC to be something it's not. Replaying sections repeatedly to get something right seems like it would work in direct opposition to the game's design philosophy.

 

[autobzooty]

There are plenty of platforming challenges in all those titles you mentioned with platforming segments infinitely harder than what is found in Uncharted.

No, pandering to the pussy gamer set should not be the goal of game developers. It should be the goal to create extremely well designed and clever challenges which are beatable should you put in the effort to learn the mechanics well, but don't reward those manchildren who throw controllers when they die twice in a row because they suck at games and also life.

One always feels way more awesome when they finish something that is hard. Working for something is more rewarding that it being handed to you.

Naughty Dog seems equally concerned with the cinematic experience as well as the gameplay. Every time you die, the illusion is shattered and you come careening back to reality as you click the "Retry" button. I understand ND's choice to make platforming piss-easy, but I think that it's something they should consider reworking for uncharted 3.


Edit: Pretty much what Rez said.

 

[Amir0x]

you're missing the point, it's not about "pandering to the pussy player", it's about keeping things flowing and cinematic, which, say what you want about the design decisions ND make, but that seems to be pretty damn high, if not priority number one, on their freaking design doc. It's basically the mission-statement of the UC series.

You want UC to be something it's not. Replaying sections repeatedly to get something right seems like it would work in direct opposition to the game's design philosophy.

Over time, when you get better, you will flow better and be able to play in that way. And if you can't, you can always put the game on easy. That's why there are difficulty settings.

I want UC to be exactly what it is. An awesome Indiana Jones-esque platformer shooter. But to reach its possible heights, that requires some retooling of the platforming segments to be far more challenging, rewarding skill.

If you just want it to be a movie, then it should be a movie. I'm playing games, and games should challenge my gaming skills. You're arguing that gameplay should be secondary to some cinematic goal. "Hey, this looks cool... who cares if it's kinda automatic and requires no real thought to traverse!"

 

[Deleted member 30609]

your issue is with Naughty Dog then, not my reasoning

 

[Amir0x]

i think it is natural to assume that when leveling any criticism at Uncharted, the issue is with Naughty Dog and not a random GAFer named Rez.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

i think it is natural to assume that when leveling any criticism at Uncharted, the issue is with Naughty Dog and not a random GAFer named Rez.

I made an ever so slight but oh so important edit

 

[autobzooty]

Over time, when you get better, you will flow better and be able to play in that way. And if you can't, you can always put the game on easy. That's why there are difficulty settings.

I want UC to be exactly what it is. An awesome Indiana Jones-esque platformer shooter. But to reach its possible heights, that requires some retooling of the platforming segments to be far more challenging, rewarding skill.

If you just want it to be a movie, then it should be a movie. I'm playing games, and games should challenge my gaming skills. You're arguing that gameplay should be secondary to some cinematic goal. "Hey, this looks cool... who cares if it's kinda automatic and requires no real thought to traverse!"

There's nothing wrong with gameplay taking a backseat to cinematics, it's just a different type of game. What sets uncharted apart from other games is that you never watch a cutscene of Drake running over a falling bridge. It's always YOU controlling him as this happens. Even if there's not much control necessary, you're still pressing the stick forward to make him run, and it feels really good. It connects you with the action in a way that a movie or a cutscene cannot.

Ultimately though, I'd say I agree with you, but I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to make a game with the elements you want. The stars have to really align for this to happen...You need perfect controls, perfect difficulty curve, extremely frequent "falling bridge" moments, and difficulty settings that actually change the way these scenes play out. There WILL be people that get sick of dying every time the game throws em a curveball, and while you call this "catering to the numbskulls," I call it making a good and balanced game that many people can enjoy.

 

[equap]

god damn i love this game.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

The problem I had (have?) with UC's platforming wasn't so much the levels being too straightforward (although they were), its that the mechanic is so automated. Contrasted to the gunplay which is quite tactical, the traversal felt more like a breather than another layer of gameplay. I'm not looking for N+ on a three-dimensional plane, but having to judge and control a little inertia would go a long way. Give the player some variables to figure out and master, without being too frustrating. Easier said and all that...

 

[Amir0x]

There's nothing wrong with gameplay taking a backseat to cinematics, it's just a different type of game. What sets uncharted apart from other games is that you never watch a cutscene of Drake running over a falling bridge. It's always YOU controlling him as this happens. Even if there's not much control necessary, you're still pressing the stick forward to make him run, and it feels really good. It connects you with the action in a way that a movie or a cutscene cannot.

Ultimately though, I'd say I agree with you, but I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to make a game with the elements you want. The stars have to really align for this to happen...You need perfect controls, perfect difficulty curve, extremely frequent "falling bridge" moments, and difficulty settings that actually change the way these scenes play out. There WILL be people that get sick of dying every time the game throws em a curveball, and while you call this "catering to the numbskulls," I call it making a good and balanced game that many people can enjoy.

I'm not really complaining much because I feel like even though I would like the platforming to be harder, Naughty Dog has implemented fairly challenging gun battles which compensate for the lack of challenge elsewhere. Therefore, the platforming segments feel like a nice break from the harder moments and it's not so bad.

If the game was nothing but platforming and it was all this easy, I'd actually probably avoid Uncharted 2.

I'm just saying, though, I don't agree with the argument that it should be cinematic before good gameplay. If that is ND's goal, it is a bad goal. I think most would agree to that.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

and, like I said above, as well as being a creative choice, it could well be a technical limitation of sorts.

I definitely agree with you on principle, I'm just trying to fairly flesh out what might be the reasoning behind the decisions they made.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

I'm just saying, though, I don't agree with the argument that it should be cinematic before good gameplay. If that is ND's goal, it is a bad goal. I think most would agree to that.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Most of my favorite game are very cinematic and sometime game play does take a backseat to an extent. Cinematic games tend to leave more of a lasting impression on me.

 

[autobzooty]

I'm not really complaining much because I feel like even though I would like the platforming to be harder, Naughty Dog has implemented fairly challenging gun battles which compensate for the lack of challenge elsewhere. Therefore, the platforming segments feel like a nice break from the harder moments and it's not so bad.

If the game was nothing but platforming and it was all this easy, I'd actually probably avoid Uncharted 2.

I'm just saying, though, I don't agree with the argument that it should be cinematic before good gameplay. If that is ND's goal, it is a bad goal. I think most would agree to that.

Well cinematics and gameplay both have to come together harmoniously in order to realize the Naughty Dog vision. Cinematic scenes will not be fun to play if the gameplay sucks, but a game can still be good if it has JUST good gameplay. That's why I think what you're asking Uncharted to be is much easier said than done, but I do hope it happens in the future.

 

[nelsonroyale]

i think it is natural to assume that when leveling any criticism at Uncharted, the issue is with Naughty Dog and not a random GAFer named Rez.

Did you play Jak 2? Platforming in that game could be fiendishly frustrating...although a big part of that was lack of save points.

I agree with Rez, though, I think maintaining the flow in Uncharted is important. Personally, I think they have the balance fine, but I can understand those who wish for more and tougher platforming, just like those who wish for more puzzles.

Personally, I think the gameplay is already excellent...they haven't compromised on any aspect, just streamlined some elements to fit the flow they wish to achieve

 

[dfyb]

i have a solution:

keep current uncharted platforming ideals as they are for the platforming that is on the main path.

add more challenging platforming leading to artifcats etc (optional, but still rewarding).

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

i have a solution:

keep current uncharted platforming ideals as they are for the platforming that is on the main path.

add more challenging platforming leading to artifcats etc (optional, but still rewarding).

I like this idea. +1

 

[Dude Abides]

I just started playing the U2 demo having completed 1 a month or so ago, and the controls definitely feel more responsive and fluid. The first had a certain floaty weightlessness to how Drake but it feels they've gotten rid of that.

It may be difficult to have really precise (and thus challenging) platforming in a game with UC2's aesthetic. Really precise platforming kind of requires flat edges and sharp angles in my view.

 

[Zzoram]

Does anyone know what Futureshop in Canada is offering as a pre-order bonus? I don't see anything on their site. Someone said they might have the dynamic XMB theme but it doesn't say so on their website.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Does anyone know what Futureshop in Canada is offering as a pre-order bonus? I don't see anything on their site. Someone said they might have the dynamic XMB theme but it doesn't say so on their website.

Ima Canuck and I got it from Futureshop.

Took a picture. It still seems weird that they don't advertise it, but it seems legit... 8D

Dynamic theme or not, I dunno. Someone in the thread said that they had confirmation that it is dynamic.

 

[00011000]

It's called a USB stick?

no... since trophies came out, you can't move your save files from one console to another... or so i thought?

 

[dfyb]

no... since trophies came out, you can't move your save files from one console to another... or so i thought?

varies from game to game. i think the majority still let you.

 

[WretchedTruman]

I can see myself sinking hours into Surival mode.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Wow, either the trophy patch made crushing easier, or I'm just a lot better. =3

65% in at almost 3 hour mark.

 

[Amir0x]

I just noticed something semi-amusing when replaying Uncharted 1 on Crushing today...

In Chapter 10...

Spoiler

When we exit the Customs House onto the Balcony, and Elena is like "How about you get the boat and swing it around and pick me up?" And she says she just wants to get some more footage. She isn't a liar! Because what I found amusing was that after I leave her, I start platforming to a Balcony one second next to her and it breaks apart and forces me to get to another platform quickly. And then I start getting shot at... grenades launched at me, big explosions. And in all this time, I can still see Elena around 50 feet away, peacefully filming the far distant water. Bitch, you have a gun, HELP ME! I know you can hear all this gunfire and explosions!

 

[Robot 492]

I just noticed something semi-amusing when replaying Uncharted 1 on Crushing today...

In Chapter 10...

Spoiler

When we exit the Customs House onto the Balcony, and Elena is like "How about you get the boat and swing it around and pick me up?" And she says she just wants to get some more footage. She isn't a liar! Because what I found amusing was that after I leave her, I start platforming to a Balcony one second next to her and it breaks apart and forces me to get to another platform quickly. And then I start getting shot at... grenades launched at me, big explosions. And in all this time, I can still see Elena around 50 feet away, peacefully filming the far distant water. Bitch, you have a gun, HELP ME! I know you can hear all this gunfire and explosions!

:lol

She is pretty useless, but at least she can't die. I hate games that force you to save other people because they can't stay alive for more than 5 seconds.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

vs.

 

[Amir0x]

:lol

She is pretty useless, but at least she can't die. I hate games that force you to save other people because they can't stay alive for more than 5 seconds.

There is a few moments in the game when she can die, technically.

Spoiler

When you see some guys pointing a gun at her you have to take them out, or they'll kill her. Also, when you're on the jetski, if you die, she also dies.

 

[Zzoram]

Ima Canuck and I got it from Futureshop.

Took a picture. It still seems weird that they don't advertise it, but it seems legit... 8D

Dynamic theme or not, I dunno. Someone in the thread said that they had confirmation that it is dynamic.

What is that thing? A card saying you're eligible to get a code when you pick up the game? Can I get this theme doing an in-store pre-order?

 

[Unknown One]

:lol

She is pretty useless, but at least she can't die. I hate games that force you to save other people because they can't stay alive for more than 5 seconds.

God mode for allies ftw!