They advertised this game as having much more open but still linear levels than the previous games, where you'd have multiple ways to get to an objective. Not to mention, player and mechanic progression has been giving us great results this gen, (and in most games really) in terms of game design to make sure that using an item in a late stage has more weight and feel to it than using it in an earlier stage. This is especially true in terms of replays because the game's design is so incredibly limited that even on the highest difficulty there's little challenge aside from some bullshit encounters that force you into combat in the later stages. In some ways it straight up feels like it's designed for player progression, later in the game I stealth the exact same way as in earlier in the game, by rolling through grass, occasionally using the rope to get a cheap kill, snapping necks when people aren't looking etc. I can't get a silencer, I can't hide manually hide bodies, the game's design is limited in a detrimental way imho because the mechanics really don't stand on their on to carry the entire game through multiple times.
Bro I played Tomb Raider once and never though of it again. I couldn't tell you the names of any of the characters in any Tomb Raider game except Clara Loft. Guess how many times I played the uncharted games 1, 2, 3 and 4? There are plenty of other games that do what you want go play those games and stop bitching here about a game you clearly do not like.
They advertised this game as having much more open but still linear levels than the previous games, where you'd have multiple ways to get to an objective. Not to mention, player and mechanic progression has been giving us great results this gen, (and in most games really) in terms of game design to make sure that using an item in a late stage has more weight and feel to it than using it in an earlier stage. This is especially true in terms of replays because the game's design is so incredibly limited that even on the highest difficulty there's little challenge aside from some bullshit encounters that force you into combat in the later stages. In some ways it straight up feels like it's designed for player progression, later in the game I stealth the exact same way as in earlier in the game, by rolling through grass, occasionally using the rope to get a cheap kill, snapping necks when people aren't looking etc. I can't get a silencer, I can't hide manually hide bodies, the game's design is limited in a detrimental way imho because the mechanics really don't stand on their on to carry the entire game through multiple times.
Using Disney Diffuse Model, added special cheap Sub-surface Scatter. We also added fabric micro details, small wrinkles and aging.
For Specular models, we are using kajiya-kay model for silk fabric, and modified the fabric model from Ready at Dawn for cotton, wool, ext...
Bro I played Tomb Raider once and never though of it again. I couldn't tell you the names of any of the characters in any Tomb Raider game except Clara Loft. Guess how many times I played the uncharted games 1, 2, 3 and 4? There are plenty of other games that do what you want go play those games and stop bitching here about a game you clearly do not like.
Why're you talking about story here when my posts have nothing to do with the story. And who in the world said I don't like the game? Please quote me saying that. No really i'll wait.
Maybe you should just stick to playing Tomb Raider and leave the Uncharted game to you know people who like uncharted games. Not sure what you want to happen at the end of the game. For it to turn into a space combat game or something? i'm pretty sure at the beginning of a Tomb Raider game you are jumping, exploring, puzzle solving, shooting, stabbing , grunting , talking, running, moving, falling, traveling, etc and at the end of the game you are still jumping, exploring, puzzle solving, shooting, stabbing , grunting , talking, running, moving, falling, traveling, etc. Am I missing something here?
You say that as if i'm a super huge fan of TR. I'll humor you, no, I don't want it to turn into space combat, I do however want the last stretch of the game to actually be more challenging, (you know besides more enemies with slightly better weapons) and for the mechanics to not be exactly the same and used in the exact same ways. The player has way more options for stuff like stealth by the end of Tomb Raider, they don't in UC4 and the existing mechanics in TR are expanded upon as well.
That is NOT game design! Sigh. You are conflating too many things here.
You have a set of tools made clear to you. A game's job can be to subsequently challenge you in the way you use those tools to find different solutions to differently designed challenges (an aspect of the equation you are are willfully ignoring). Your tools are limited, but the way you tackle a situation is not.
You are getting waaaaay too hung up on the 'what' and tools (rolling through grass, occassionally using a rope, etc) and not the how you use said tools to tackle new situations or mapping out different plans to tackle a enemies in a vertically designed encounter.
Also, repeated game playthroughs is not necessarily a goal, but can always be a consequence of fun game design.
Yes it really is. During stealth, if you want to continue stealthing you can't use weapons aside form marking enemies, things like ledge grabs and rope swings are few and far between as well as completely contextual, you can't lure enemies over to your position or to another position, you can't manually hide bodies, the same tactics will work in the end game versus the first time the game introduces you with the stealth mechanics in chapter 6, even with the added ability to use the rope, the majority of kills are gonna be ledge grabs and neck snaps. I'd even settle for dynamic enemy placements.
NDs strength lies in the linear experience and whilst their areas are getting more open-ended with multiple routes and little offsets to explore, I don't think they are ever going open world.
I'm expecting the next TLoU to feature plenty of open areas which would be rad. If it was a bit more RPGish with convo systems and multiple branches in the story, that would be epic.
I can't fathom how people are disappointed by the soundtrack in this one. It's honestly incredible, might like it just as much as 2's. Crazy how this is by far Henry Jackman's best work.
I went in expecting the soundtrack to be awful after some of the impressions, but wound up loving it myself. Very atmospheric in many places. Especially loved it in chapter
NDs strength lies in the linear experience and whilst their areas are getting more open-ended with multiple routes and little offsets to explore, I don't think they are ever going open world.
Druckmann has stated that he thinks open world harms storytelling (and I agree) and that telling stories is what Naughty Dog do. Maybe I remember incorrectly but that's that.
You say that as if i'm a super huge fan of TR. I'll humor you, no, I don't want it to turn into space combat, I do however want the last stretch of the game to actually be more challenging, (you know besides more enemies with slightly better weapons) and for the mechanics to not be exactly the same and used in the exact same ways. The player has way more options for stuff like stealth by the end of Tomb Raider, they don't in UC4 and the existing mechanics in TR are expanded upon as well.
You're saying that Chapter 20 isn't more challenging than encounters earlier in the game? Bullshit.
Upgrade/Leveling systems are 100% not required for good gameplay. Just because that's in vogue now doesn't mean that everything needs to adhere to that. There are plenty of games that will give you exactly what you want (including a publisher who seems to have determined that their entire lineup needs to meet this criteria). Please let Uncharted be Uncharted.
You're saying that Chapter 20 isn't more challenging than encounters earlier in the game? Bullshit.
Upgrade/Leveling systems are 100% not required for good gameplay. Just because that's in vogue now doesn't mean that everything needs to adhere to that. There are plenty of games that will give you exactly what you want (including a publisher who seems to have determined that their entire lineup needs to meet this criteria). Please let Uncharted be Uncharted.
The thing is that ND already straight up proved that they know how to do player progression with TLOU. And since this game borrows so much from TLOU, it would make sense to borrow that, (instead of the crate pushing and help me up segments..). No one said they're 100% required, but I doubt many would be complaining if they were included in this game. In fact i'd wager the opposite would occur. And yea, the only difference between stealthing is ofc the level design and enemy types. The same systems worked as they did before.
Yes and this shit happens throughout the game and that's what the climbing sections that some people complain about benefit from, I'm glad they're not cut down or thrown out because they make the feeling of you being there much more stronger. The climb when you're going after
Sam
is fantastic because you get to see most if not all the places you were at on
They advertised this game as having much more open but still linear levels than the previous games, where you'd have multiple ways to get to an objective. Not to mention, player and mechanic progression has been giving us great results this gen, (and in most games really) in terms of game design to make sure that using an item in a late stage has more weight and feel to it than using it in an earlier stage. This is especially true in terms of replays because the game's design is so incredibly limited that even on the highest difficulty there's little challenge aside from some bullshit encounters that force you into combat in the later stages. In some ways it straight up feels like it's designed for player progression, later in the game I stealth the exact same way as in earlier in the game, by rolling through grass, occasionally using the rope to get a cheap kill, snapping necks when people aren't looking etc. I can't get a silencer, I can't hide manually hide bodies, the game's design is limited in a detrimental way imho because the mechanics really don't stand on their on to carry the entire game through multiple times.
Mechanics are not the strong point of this game at all. The gunplay is a bit better, but it's still floaty. The fantastic level design and options in combat is what makes the combat shine. The stealth is limited, but it's competent enough for an action game. If you're huge on stealth I can see why it's a disappointment though.
The platforming, while improved due to the grappling hook is still pretty mindless. Puzzles are the same shit. The "meat and potatoes" of UC4 is the storytelling and the scenery. To be fair, it could've been the combat, but the way the game is structured doesn't allow it to be. This greatly limits the replayability of UC4's campaign because the downtime in UC4 isn't as interesting as it is in other games that push that to the forefront, but at least they added the encounter select.
The whole "progression" thing comes down to this. The platforming doesn't feel involving enough to sustain the game without it eventually being tiring. There are multiple chapters consisting of nothing, but platforming. This happens as late as the game's
penultimate chapter, 21.
There are so many sections of it and you never really feel any vulnerability because it's largely always the same. There may be an occasional slide or use of the
pickaxe
, but there's not much fear for death or messing up. This is a problem when the downtime is such a large portion of the game because the game just loses all tension and it feels like you're going through the motions. Sure, you might say, "but there's combat for that!"
However, when the combat sections are given out piecemeal. It never feels like enough. There's no sustained intensity. Even in Chapter
20
, arguably the game's most involving chapter that features one of the best battles in the series. It kinda leaves us Uncharted 2 fans hanging because right after that
quick setpiece. ..you're given 30+ minutes of straight platforming until the final boss that feels like it could've been a part of chapter 13.
This game never really ramps up the way Uncharted 2 does and it's understandable why that's disappointing for some.
Edit: Same with the puzzles. They're too easy to feel like engaging interactivity. Nate even gives away the answers before you start some of them at times!
Mechanics are not the strong point of this game at all. The gunplay is a bit better, but it's still floaty. The fantastic level design and options in combat is what makes the combat shine. The stealth is limited, but it's competent enough for an action game. If you're huge on stealth I can see why it's a disappointment though.
The platforming, while improved due to the grappling hook is still pretty mindless. Puzzles are the same shit. The "meat and potatoes" of UC4 is the storytelling and the scenery. To be fair, it could've been the combat, but the way the game is structured doesn't allow it to be. This greatly limits the replayability of UC4's campaign because the downtime in UC4 isn't as interesting as it is in other games that push that to the forefront, but at least they added the encounter select.
The whole "progression" thing comes down to this. The platforming doesn't feel involving enough to sustain the game without it eventually being tiring. There are multiple chapters consisting of nothing, but platforming. This happens as late as the game's
penultimate chapter, 21.
There are so many sections of it and you never really feel any vulnerability because it's largely always the same. There may be an occasional slide or use of the
pickaxe
, but there's not much fear for death or messing up. This is a problem when the downtime is such a large portion of the game because the game just loses all tension and it feels like you're going through the motions. Sure, you might say, "but there's combat for that!"
However, when the combat sections are given out piecemeal. It never feels like enough. There's no sustained intensity. Even in Chapter
20
, arguably the game's most involving chapter that features one of the best battles in the series. It kinda leaves us Uncharted 2 fans hanging because right after that
quick setpiece. You're given 30+ minutes of straight platforming until the final boss that feels like it could've been a part of chapter 13.
This game never really ramps up the way Uncharted 2 does and it's understandable why that's disappointing for some.
Edit: Same with the puzzles. They're too easy to feel like engaging interactivity. Nate even gives away the answers before you start some of them at times!
All understandable, didn't happen to me but I understand why it did for some. That said, doesn't mean that upgrades are needed or would fit into this franchise and world. I don't see it.
They advertised this game as having much more open but still linear levels than the previous games, where you'd have multiple ways to get to an objective. Not to mention, player and mechanic progression has been giving us great results this gen, (and in most games really) in terms of game design to make sure that using an item in a late stage has more weight and feel to it than using it in an earlier stage. This is especially true in terms of replays because the game's design is so incredibly limited that even on the highest difficulty there's little challenge aside from some bullshit encounters that force you into combat in the later stages. In some ways it straight up feels like it's designed for player progression, later in the game I stealth the exact same way as in earlier in the game, by rolling through grass, occasionally using the rope to get a cheap kill, snapping necks when people aren't looking etc. I can't get a silencer, I can't hide manually hide bodies, the game's design is limited in a detrimental way imho because the mechanics really don't stand on their on to carry the entire game through multiple times.
Pretty much agree with everything stated here. But you're presenting a position that requires a level of objectivity that's going to be rare at this point in time.
Pretty much agree with everything stated here. But you're presenting a position that requires a level of objectivity that's going to be rare at this point in time.
Pretty much agree with everything stated here. But you're presenting a position that requires a level of objectivity that's going to be rare at this point in time.
Mechanics are not the strong point of this game at all. The gunplay is a bit better, but it's still floaty. The fantastic level design and options in combat is what makes the combat shine. The stealth is limited, but it's competent enough for an action game. If you're huge on stealth I can see why it's a disappointment though.
The platforming, while improved due to the grappling hook is still pretty mindless. Puzzles are the same shit. The "meat and potatoes" of UC4 is the storytelling and the scenery. To be fair, it could've been the combat, but the way the game is structured doesn't allow it to be. This greatly limits the replayability of UC4's campaign because the downtime in UC4 isn't as interesting as it is in other games that push that to the forefront, but at least they added the encounter select.
The whole "progression" thing comes down to this. The platforming doesn't feel involving enough to sustain the game without it eventually being tiring. There are multiple chapters consisting of nothing, but platforming. This happens as late as the game's
penultimate chapter, 21.
There are so many sections of it and you never really feel any vulnerability because it's largely always the same. There may be an occasional slide or use of the
pickaxe
, but there's not much fear for death or messing up. This is a problem when the downtime is such a large portion of the game because the game just loses all tension and it feels like you're going through the motions. Sure, you might say, "but there's combat for that!"
However, when the combat sections are given out piecemeal. It never feels like enough. There's no sustained intensity. Even in Chapter
20
, arguably the game's most involving chapter that features one of the best battles in the series. It kinda leaves us Uncharted 2 fans hanging because right after that
quick setpiece. ..you're given 30+ minutes of straight platforming until the final boss that feels like it could've been a part of chapter 13.
This game never really ramps up the way Uncharted 2 does and it's understandable why that's disappointing for some.
Edit: Same with the puzzles. They're too easy to feel like engaging interactivity. Nate even gives away the answers before you start some of them at times!
This game reminds me of Naruto the anime because of fillers to be honest. Should easily edit out some of the slower parts of the game. Give more thoughts in the gameplay evolving section next time.
Unbelievable. You are arguing with yourself at this point. Very few are complaining because it wasn't forced into the game. Stupid rhetoric like that opens the door to countless of other complaints about what isn't in the game rather than how the game challenges you with what is.
BTW, do you have any clips of doing the same thing over and over in Crushing difficulty?
It wouldn't be forced, obviously the game would be designed with that more in mind. This is not a challenging game in the first place, the traversal mechanics especially don't challenge you because of how magnetic it is as I showcased in that other thread. And no, I haven't recorded crushing difficulty, I do have a pretty funny AI issue recorded as well as some stealth only runs.
Mechanics are not the strong point of this game at all. The gunplay is a bit better, but it's still floaty. The fantastic level design and options in combat is what makes the combat shine. The stealth is limited, but it's competent enough for an action game. If you're huge on stealth I can see why it's a disappointment though.
Stealth is my thing yea, especially open ended stealth that has a lot of variety and ways to do it. Which is what I was expecting due to TLOU of us coupled with what they were talking about pre-release about levels being more open ended. Honestly your post is on point. Thank you.
The platforming, while improved due to the grappling hook is still pretty mindless. Puzzles are the same shit. The "meat and potatoes" of UC4 is the storytelling and the scenery. To be fair, it could've been the combat, but the way the game is structured doesn't allow it to be. This greatly limits the replayability of UC4's campaign because the downtime in UC4 isn't as interesting as it is in other games that push that to the forefront, but at least they added the encounter select.
The whole "progression" thing comes down to this. The platforming doesn't feel involving enough to sustain the game without it eventually being tiring. There are multiple chapters consisting of nothing, but platforming. This happens as late as the game's
penultimate chapter, 21.
There are so many sections of it and you never really feel any vulnerability because it's largely always the same. There may be an occasional slide or use of the
pickaxe
, but there's not much fear for death or messing up. This is a problem when the downtime is such a large portion of the game because the game just loses all tension and it feels like you're going through the motions. Sure, you might say, "but there's combat for that!"
However, when the combat sections are given out piecemeal. It never feels like enough. There's no sustained intensity. Even in Chapter
20
, arguably the game's most involving chapter that features one of the best battles in the series. It kinda leaves us Uncharted 2 fans hanging because right after that
quick setpiece. ..you're given 30+ minutes of straight platforming until the final boss that feels like it could've been a part of chapter 13.
This game never really ramps up the way Uncharted 2 does and it's understandable why that's disappointing for some.
Edit: Same with the puzzles. They're too easy to feel like engaging interactivity. Nate even gives away the answers before you start some of them at times!
CrossingEden, your argument sort of falls apart the moment you realise stealth is merely an additive feature of the combat, not a defining or prominent one, unlike say MGS or Hitman. The difference is, whilst stealth might be a little less comprehensive than those games where it is the core focus, it's still there, completely optional and extremely functional. What UC4 has over other shooters however, is far more options and mechanical complexity with respect to mobility and dynamic traversal, which is promoted not only by the super layered, complex and rich level design, but also the number of available options, from general platforming and climbing, the ropeswing, the mud sliding, underwater swimming etc, which can all be transitioned to and from, dynamically and fluidly mid combat. This on top of contextual melee and general cover shooting mechanics too.
Finished it last night and what a fantastic game. There are so many feels, so many laughs and so much adventure packed in there that I feel there is now a hole in my gaming life. I don't see anything on the horizon to scratch this itch anytime soon. This is proof positive the journey can be just as satisfying as the destination. Thanks Naughty Dog, you are true artists.
This is why I stayed out of any thread that was Uncharted related until I completed the game. I'm not blaming you for being spoiled, but some people around here are too careless.
Pretty much agree with everything stated here. But you're presenting a position that requires a level of objectivity that's going to be rare at this point in time.
Welp! You've heard it all folks! Not only does UC4 not as good as TR because it doesn't have some pseudo-RPG like leveling system, it also isn't as good as UC2 because the game doesn't throw a million combat encounters in your face time after time! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but these are almost the extreme minority of detriments I've seen for a game. A level of objectivity that's going to be rare? Lol You ain't slick. Take that confirmation bias elsewhere.
This is why I stayed out of any thread that was Uncharted related until I completed the game. I'm not blaming you for being spoiled, but some people around here are too careless.
Yeah, I probably should have just stayed out until I beat it, but I'm on a trip right now and won't be back until tomorrow night. I liked passing the time until I could get back to it by reading the Uncharted threads lol :/
Yeah, I probably should have just stayed out until I beat it, but I'm on a trip right now and won't be back until tomorrow night. I liked passing the time until I could get back to it by reading the Uncharted threads lol :/
Its tough for sure haha. When the game leaked early I'd find myself constantly checking the "spoiler free" impressions thread. I was lucky and was never spoiled, but on several occasions I'd go into a thread and see several Gaffers freaking out about someone spoiling something. If I had checked a minute or two earlier I would have been spoiled myself haha. Yet I'd still find myself checking on the thread. I was playing a dangerous game.
CrossingEden, your argument sort of falls apart the moment you realise stealth is merely an additive feature of the combat, not a defining or prominent one, unlike say MGS or Hitman. The difference is, whilst stealth might be a little less comprehensive than those games where it is the core focus, it's still there, completely optional and extremely functional. What UC4 has over other shooters however, is far more options and mechanical complexity with respect to mobility and dynamic traversal, which is promoted not only by the super layered, complex and rich level design, but also the number of available options, from general platforming and climbing, the ropeswing, the mud sliding, underwater swimming etc, which can all be transitioned to and from, dynamically and fluidly mid combat. This on top of contextual melee and general cover shooting mechanics too.
That's the thing is that it really doesn't have that much mobility over other shooters unless you're solely hanging out by contextual gameplay points like places where you can rope swing. ND had better stealth in their last game too so I don't see the excuse here. Especially since I straight up stealthed through the entire level. not every combat arena has mud or water, the majority of them don't, the majority of combat arenas have at most two sections where you can swing with a rope.
That's the thing is that it really doesn't have that much mobility over other shooters unless you're solely hanging out by contextual gameplay points like places where you can rope swing. ND had better stealth in their last game too so I don't see the excuse here. Especially since I straight up stealthed through the entire level. not every combat arena has mud or water, the majority of them don't, the majority of combat arenas have at most two sections where you can swing with a rope.
That's the thing is that it really doesn't have that much mobility over other shooters unless you're solely hanging out by contextual gameplay points like places where you can rope swing. ND had better stealth in their last game too so I don't see the excuse here. Especially since I straight up stealthed through the entire level. not every combat arena has mud or water, the majority of them don't, the majority of combat arenas have at most two sections where you can swing with a rope.
