That tongue in cheek comment is just me wondering how you can praise Ubisoft games and yet call the mechanics in Uncharted 4 shallow when Ubisoft games never do anything innovative or engaging with gameplay. Yes, you are allowed to criticize games. I myself have criticized Uncharted 4. The problem is nib95 gave you multiple ways to tackle an encounter, but you rejected it like there's only one way to do it. Also, the mechanics are not that deep? I don't suppose you went back to try other options. I certainly didn't try to be overly creative on my first playthrough, but after I completed the game, I went back and retried some encounters. The mechanics were definitely deeper than I thought.
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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
slade
Member
Finished the game. What a ride. There has only been one time I was ever nostalgic about a videogame and it was right at the start of Uncharted 4's epilogue when the series theme kicked in. Almost don't want it to end but if Sony choose to leave it here, I am more then satisfied. Great end to the series and it fit the tone of the previous games. I did not want any dark depressing stuff.
derExperte
Member
U4 would lose every imaginable comparison so hard. I'm in chapter
21
The game has a weird tonal mix going on. Tries on one hand to be a little darker with the story and Sam while the others are doing their usual lighthearted thing despite occasionally acting all serious for a few seconds. Again take Spec Ops, it starts kinda like Uncharted with soldiers but then slowly everything changes. Here only parts do while others don't and they clash hard.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Look up any stealthgamerbr video of the recent Ubi games. He didn't give me multiple ways to tackle an encounter, he just named severa contextual mechanics that exist, and regardless, I straight up said that I already did the encounters in multiple ways. I didn't even cal UC4 shallow, I said it's not mechanically deep, because it isn't, it's not the first game ever to have open ended encounters this gen and many games have less contextual encounters that few more dynamic and played controlled. And that's ok. You do this "oh I was just a being tongue in cheek" ad hominem bullshit every time I voice a criticism of a game. Seriously stop it. It adds jackshit to the discussion aside from a pathetic attempt at a "gotcha." Ive criticized Ubi games before on his forum, try having a discussion without bringing up Ubi games. It's not that hard, me, the guy committing the cardinal sin of liking Some of Ubi's catalogue, do it all the time.
Oublieux
Member
I finished the game last night and it's up there with my favorite, Uncharted 2. It's not as bombastic as the previous entries, which I attribute to the game "growing up" with each iteration. It's a pretty logical and expected progression as the Uncharted games went from the supernatural to aiming to becoming more grounded. I think this also explains the game shifting more towards exploration than enemy encounters and over the top set pieces. I wish there had been a bit more run and gun moments but the encounters that were there were legitimately fun and varied with how you could stealth and swing and climb around all the various "arenas."
The set pieces--well, the graphical fidelity, in general--in Uncharted 4 are possibly the most technically impressive moments I've seen in the series, but most of the "Hollywood" moments fell a sliver short of fully satisfying me. I can't quite put my finger on why, but it's possibly because they wrapped up quickly just as they began. Extending this to graphics outside of set pieces, just wow. It blew my mind how natural lighting looked, how the various vistas and locales were filled with the most particular details, and so on. I had to force myself to stop taking screenshots because it was messing with the pacing of the game. It really shows how much ND was invested in making this the final send off for Nathan Drake and crew.
Lastly, that epilogue
. I'm going to miss the banter between Elena and Nathan. My favorite moments were undoubtedly just the little chats that occurred between the two of them.
I can definitely see myself revisiting some of the chapters for the experience, and even diving into the multiplayer. Kudos ND!
The set pieces--well, the graphical fidelity, in general--in Uncharted 4 are possibly the most technically impressive moments I've seen in the series, but most of the "Hollywood" moments fell a sliver short of fully satisfying me. I can't quite put my finger on why, but it's possibly because they wrapped up quickly just as they began. Extending this to graphics outside of set pieces, just wow. It blew my mind how natural lighting looked, how the various vistas and locales were filled with the most particular details, and so on. I had to force myself to stop taking screenshots because it was messing with the pacing of the game. It really shows how much ND was invested in making this the final send off for Nathan Drake and crew.
Lastly, that epilogue
was just so sweet
I can definitely see myself revisiting some of the chapters for the experience, and even diving into the multiplayer. Kudos ND!
RespectThySole
Member
Yeah, the audio distortion in the last third of the game sucked. Chapter
21
20.
All right, what game in a similar genre has deeper mechanics then? Also, what does recent Ubi games refer to? I've played Watch Dogs and almost every encounter feels the same. You can stealth or shoot your way through encounters, yes, but your choices to do either are very limited and hacking is almost useless here.
Sounds like you just straight up dislike the characters. Perhaps you should have realized the series isn't for you long ago?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Half of WD's encounters can be completed without stepping foot inside the infiltration. It and GZ were like the first attempts at straight up open ended main campaign mission design and both did wonders. And again, look up the guy's channel.
Half, huh? Sounds like a massive exaggeration. I recall many missions ending with a firefight, in which you have to either fight your way out or flee. I'll give you MGSV GZ, though. Never played it, but I played MGSV TPP and that gave many options to tackle encounters and I love it. Back to WD, even if it was attempting open ended mission design, the game did a horrible job of communicating it and it felt like the typical linear mission design in open world games. Those side quests involving criminal bosses felt just as limited and repetitive. So I have no idea what you mean, honestly.
Finished the game last night. Felt it was damn good. Was glad to see Naughty Dog have learned from the complaints about the combat in UC3, not of the encounters (aside from one later in the game) felt unfair and there actually seemed to be working checkpointing during fights.
One thing I was bummed about is
One thing I was bummed about is
the lack of a supernatural element. Felt that Naughty Dog slowly shying away fron this as the series went on was to its detriment tbh
kopitarrulez_11
Member
Why are people hating on the boss fight I thought it was a fantastic idea
shit was epic
fighting like pirates
Spring-Loaded
Member
As far as
QTE-ish
3's had the prompts up there on normal, so that was kind of eh. More interesting in crushing w/o the prompts.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Disagree, made the bland
theme of the game
However after seeing the concept art of the boss fight its a bit disappointing.
RespectThySole
Member
It was decent.
Perhaps a bit too easy to "luck" your way through on moderate. On hard I got more into the rhythm of it.
Emerson's Essentia
Banned
The hell?
In chapter 19 the audio keeps glitching in cutscenes and scripted sequences, This happening to everyone?
In chapter 19 the audio keeps glitching in cutscenes and scripted sequences, This happening to everyone?
RespectThySole
Member
Known problem. Just use the replay cutscene feature if it does that.
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
I kinda wish they got rid of the combat all together and just made a lot of fun puzzles and riddles.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The game couldn't have communicated open ended mission design enough, it like GZ just gave you an objective and ended it there, ofc there were some more linear missions and ofc firefights but in terms of openness and mechanics, it's quite a bit deeper than UC4, by a long shot. There's no attempting about it as that was one of the most praised aspects of the game from bth reviewers and players including many here on GAF. The community of the game was just coming up with more creative ways to tackle missions including side missions. I would say the same applies to FC. Back to UC4. I feel that the environment doesn't take as much advantage as they could to incorporate the mechanics. Actually another element they could've borrowed from TLOU was the dynamic cover system. I feel that probably would've worked well especially considering that things like the grass stealth is contextual and then maybe switching to a manual cover system during open combat.
First off, i'm a dude, secondly, I said the gameplay has some mechanics that are limited, mainly related to stealth and how the placement of some things are entirely too contextual, (sliding being the most egregious due to it's rarity and how little it's actually required), thirdly, TLOU and UC3 had some mechanics that are missing in this game, like lures during stealth and throwing back grenades. I didn't move a single goalpost.
Trigonometrize.
Member
This game was really good. For me, it was just perfectly balancing between puzzle, traversal, and combat. I wanted to get into fights, and every time it happened it was great. It's also a really nice story for the characters coming to terms with their feelings on adventuring. My one sorta disappointment was Sully. I felt like he would have more to say in terms of the drama going on than he actually did. He also looked weird, lol.
Anyway, awesome game. U2 > 4 > TLOU > 3 > 1
Anyway, awesome game. U2 > 4 > TLOU > 3 > 1
Yeah, I don't know why I'm bothering to debate either. Crossing Eden has made up his/her mind that the mechanics in Uncharted 4 aren't deep while pointing to Ubisoft games as having deeper mechanics. But again, I don't mind because I never agree with Crossing Eden on anything anyway.
Watch Dogs having more openness and much deeper mechanics than Uncharted 4? Good grief, I give up. I don't recall any wide open areas in Watch Dogs. Camp Omega, on the other hand, felt completely open, much like the Afghanistan base camp in TPP. How you even manage to put WD and MGSV together is amazing to me. You have it your way, your posts are ridiculous.
Edit: Also, grenade throwback is not a deep mechanic at all. In fact, it encourages you to stay behind cover as long as possible. Good God, I'm grateful the Ubisoft formula hasn't influenced other games.
Falchion
Member
I've always been #TeamChloe but this game really showed that Elena is a ride or die chick which is all you could ever really ask for.
She literally kills for Nate, that's hot.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Respond to my post which includes video evidence, in fact, why don't you make a counter video showing off just how deep the mechanics are, the ps4 has a record feature. It's like you didn't even watch the video, ffs WD is a borderline RPG in terms of mechanics being unlocked and the amount of tools available to you as you go through the game with several skill tress. How can you refute this at all? Please do so. Btw, openness doesn't just mean in terms of how big an environment is, it's the amount of ways you can tackle it as well.
Totally agree! The sword fight was pretty epic.
DSP really loved this game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWhcmN9X-0M
I agree with most of what he said
I give this game 9 at least and it's among the top 5 games this gen by far for me Bloodborne, Uncharted 4, Dark souls 3, Witcher 3 and Bayonetta 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWhcmN9X-0M
I agree with most of what he said
I give this game 9 at least and it's among the top 5 games this gen by far for me Bloodborne, Uncharted 4, Dark souls 3, Witcher 3 and Bayonetta 2.
I would, but what would be the point if you are just going to reject it anyway. I would be wasting my time. In the PSX demo alone, I tried at least three options. One was mostly stealth and only shooting when I had to. The other was guns blazing the whole way. Lastly, a mix of the two. Can I do that in Watch Dogs? Oh, wait, the enemies never lose sight of you in Watch Dogs.
Edit: Having more mechanics does not make it deeper when they are mostly useless in enemy encounters.
for anyone who beat the game, GameSpot did a spoilercast that is worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5TlNNt2Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5TlNNt2Us
Oublieux
Member
The crux of this whole debate is how everyone is defining game mechanics vs. depth. A game can have simple mechanics and still have depth and open ended approaches.
As an extreme example, look at Go for instance. You're only putting black and white pieces on the board but it is considered by many to be deep due to the number of ways you can tackle a situation.
On the other side, a game can have many mechanics but still lack depth.
There is no problem with someone considering UC4 less mechanically deep than other games or vice versa. It's no surprise people have differing opinions and views since everything is shades of gray.
I personally prefer UC4, but I can accept and understand that some people see a game like Watch Dogs, Far Cry, or AC having more mechanics than UC4 simply due to the number of tools that are available on hand in those games.
Nightengale
Member
In terms of pure mechanics, Uncharted had never been a dense one. In many ways, it's emblematic of Bruce Straley's admiration of Ueda game design.
I could see why the lack of some no-brainer mechanics like luring, etc comes across as being weird, since other games by the same devs have those mechanics, but Uncharted's meat and potatoes have always been about trying to achieve fluid,traversal gunplay.
And effectively any mechanic that promotes you hunkering down has been excised and even melee simplified to the extent you just mash so that you don't have to think too much before moving to the next thing.
I get what Crossing Eden is saying, but likewise, I see what this game is going for and why the nature of combat progression in this game is not about more mechanics, but simply bigger more challenging levels with multiple layers of traversal to challenge your sense of movement and space.
I could see why the lack of some no-brainer mechanics like luring, etc comes across as being weird, since other games by the same devs have those mechanics, but Uncharted's meat and potatoes have always been about trying to achieve fluid,traversal gunplay.
And effectively any mechanic that promotes you hunkering down has been excised and even melee simplified to the extent you just mash so that you don't have to think too much before moving to the next thing.
I get what Crossing Eden is saying, but likewise, I see what this game is going for and why the nature of combat progression in this game is not about more mechanics, but simply bigger more challenging levels with multiple layers of traversal to challenge your sense of movement and space.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
So you have no way to actually refute that video or the claim that WD is deeper? Got it.
First off, enemies do lose sight of you in WD, secondly, yes you can, the game rarely forces you to do encounters a certain way, the game instead encourages you to play however you want. Again, refute that video with some form of visual evidence. Show me how the stealth in UC4 is apparently deeper and more open without lures and no way of using weapons without alerting enemies. I'll wait.
The thing is, in my point of view, having more mechanics does not simply make the overall mechanics deeper when the mechanics do not spice up the encounters in the first place.
So using lures is the pinnacle of stealth? Okay, got it. Also, no way of using weapons without alerting enemies? Using grenades do put them on alert, but you don't get spotted immediately. In fact, you can arguably use it to split up enemies and pick them off one by one. But nope, we have to use lures to attract an ememy because it is so deep.
derExperte
Member
Not saying the fights were better or as good overall but W_D did have some large, open areas and the gadgets made stealth fun if you bothered to use them.
They didn't bother me in U2 which I loved, they didn't bother me in U1 which I platinum'd, they did start bothering me in U3 but that had bigger problems so whatever. Then U4 made me go from eh to ugh, though I haven't seen the end yet so there's still time to get back to eh.
This explains so much. Maybe even why the main bad guys are invisible for long stretches of time. Poor Nadine, a completely wasted character.
They didn't bother me in U2 which I loved, they didn't bother me in U1 which I platinum'd, they did start bothering me in U3 but that had bigger problems so whatever. Then U4 made me go from eh to ugh, though I haven't seen the end yet so there's still time to get back to eh.
This explains so much. Maybe even why the main bad guys are invisible for long stretches of time. Poor Nadine, a completely wasted character.
Well, then, you are in the extreme minority as most of us still found the characters well written and very likeable and the banter between them better than ever.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Not only more mechanics but more incentive to use them. Considering the videos I just posted, to say that FC and WD is more mechanically deep, (they're open world games designed with systemic player driven mechanics specifically in mind because that's cheaper to make than constant set pieces), isn't anywhere near baffling to anyone who has had extensive time with the games, (I certainly don't see a future where SGBR is gonna be making any "creative" UC4 videos anytime soon..), and what's there isn't even bad, the mechanics in UC4 obviously work, I've found the exploits in the mechanics that make it deeper, like straight up negating fall damage because Drake magnetizes to an enemy if you time your jumps right, or the exact second his character animation indicates that an enemy is killable, it's just missing a lot of modern staples, like again, lures, which are vital to stealth segments and make it less of a waiting game for an enemy to get into position for a ledge takedown or distracting enemies as you make your way towards a specific position. TLOU had both of these things as well and ND straight up said that they prefer to iterate on the mechanics of their games between franchises so to see stealth take some steps forward and some back is disappointing, and it's a shame that some interpret that opinion as some sort of agenda or that I don't like the game, if I didn't like the game I'd probably say I don't like the game just like I always do on this forum when I don't like a game. Or even worse, that if it was the exact same product but made by Ubi that I'd suddenly like it more.
Enemy manipulation is one of the most vital parts of stealth gameplay yes. Especially for ghost playthroughs.
Oublieux
Member
Yeah, I can understand that. It's just that Crossing Eden probably has his own viewpoint. As it stands, the parties involved are valuing the mechanics differently between UC4 and other games.
Honestly, it's just shades of gray. I prefer UC4 myself, but I can certainly see his perspective on the issue and how he can come to that conclusion.
veloxStrix
Banned
I finally beat it. Fantastic, beautiful game with some amazing set pieces. The refined combat encounters were amazing. Sneaking away from enemies mid-gunfight and watching them keep trying to hunt for me in all the wrong places was exhilarating. There were moments I was literally on the edge of my seat, especially as we started approaching the middle of the game.
But what happened to that story though.
But what happened to that story though.
I can understand his perspective either. However, the way he puts it is like just because one game does some mechanics he loves, Uncharted 4 has to do it too. There's nothing wrong with not using lures in stealth, for instance.
And I'm saying you can manipulate enemies without lures. Hell, making them find a dead companion changes up their patterns and often leads them to split up, allowing you to take them out easier. Of course, it doesn't always go as you want it to, but that's not necessarily a flaw.
it doesn't fucking matter if no one said ''i want to finish the game behind the same cover since chapter 1'', it's just an example. those changes were made for the player to be more mobile, and they punish the player only if he isn't that mobile at all. there are maybe 2 encounters in a tight corridor? And in one of them you have to wait 3 seconds for the big guy to blow up then it's over. and AGAIN, some of those late game encounters, like I mentioned 15 times already, are unfair and poorly designed for high difficulties, where did I wrote ''that shit is good design''? Because I didn't, and I surely don't think it is. it's the third post I make about the same fucking point and yet you fail to understand. you keep bringing up those garbage encounters (which ~again~ I agreed they're awful) even though there are only a few of them whereas most of the other ones in the game work around those changes perfectly.
no, the other games don't ''as much as this one does''. simply because of the changes we already mentioned 15 times, but believe what you want.
adding to the whole nonsense you wrote so far, whining and insulting people about something I like? Lol. it's beyond me what convoluted unhinged logic is needed to think that a post like that is whining and insulting. I quoted the guy who explained the probable reasons behind those changes, saying ''pretty much this^'', then made the comment ''play the game on easy with auto-babby-aim if you wanna stay behind the same cover or something'', which ~~again~~, just highlights how you can't do that on higher difficulties and being mobile is usually they key to success. yet, right after, you started throwing a tantrum, enraged, thinking I insulted you or doubted your mlg mad uncharted skillz.
I really should go off into the sunset instead of wasting time and having moronic discussions on the internet.
Oublieux
Member
I liked the story overall, but felt the resolution between Sam and Nathan was too swift. It was very much
forgive and forget
Oublieux
Member
Me too, buddy, me too.
derExperte
Member
I know, that's been the go-to response every time someone doesn't think the writing/story/characters are the bee's knee and competing with Lawrence of Arabia or Apocalypse Now. Which is amusing because it's happening more often lately so I guess said minority is slowly growing?
Him too, yes, he pops up when the plot needs him and then gets almost immediately sidelined again.
RespectThySole
Member
Nightengale
Member
While that is true, I think the fundamental approach to ND game design, and this is IMO, one that is polarising... is that ND designs their game and mechanics not on giving the player the toolset needed to maximise their fun and enjoyment in that game space, but giving the toolset to put you in the same headspace as the character whose story you are experiencing.
In the minds of ND, they feel Nate's approach to stealth wouldn't involve throwing stuff or sound luring , so you simply don't get to ever have that mechanic at all. Instead, stealth is driven by vertical and climbable spaces and that is the Nathan Drake stealth you're expected to utilise.
Same with stuff like crafting, loot, collectibles or whatnot, in terms of comparisons with other games that better use down time with deeper mechanics.
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