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[Crossing Eden]

And I'm saying you can manipulate enemies without lures. Hell, making them find a dead companion changes up their patterns and often leads them to split up, allowing you to take them out easier. Of course, it doesn't always go as you want it to, but that's not necessarily a flaw.

You realize enemies don't search for the location of the explosion, but go into alert and spread out, that's not luring, that's just changing enemy AI states to be less lenient. There's no true silent lures dude. It actually says a lot that a grenade is supposed to be considered a form of enemy manipulation during stealth, instead of you know, a rock, whistling, knocking, bricks etc.

While that is true, I think the fundamental approach to ND game design, and this is IMO, one that is polarising... is that ND designs their game and mechanics not on giving the player the toolset needed to maximise their fun and enjoyment in that game space, but giving the toolset to put you in the same headspace as the character whose story you are experiencing.

In the minds of ND, they feel Nate's approach to stealth wouldn't involve throwing stuff or sound luring , so you simply don't get to ever have that mechanic at all. Instead, stealth is driven by vertical and climbable spaces and that is the Nathan Drake stealth you're expected to utilise.

Same with stuff like crafting, loot, collectibles or whatnot, in terms of comparisons with other games that better use down time with deeper mechanics.

They gave Nate the ability to suddenly be able to mark and see enemies through walls...which isn't a very Nathan Drake trait at all, even less so since he's been "out of the game" for years.

 

[darkwing]

I am addicted to the multiplayer.

so much to unlock, that's the draw

 

[Chronospherics]

I don't understand the purpose of arguing on the games mechanical depth (interactive depth). If the depth of interactions defined the quality of an experience games like Heavy Rain or Journey would not be popular or critically acclaimed. There's plenty of value in having more, or less depth depending on the experience you want to convey.

Uncharted inherently has less mechanical depth than a game like Watch Dogs as the latter it is open world with more options available to the player at any one time, but I would argue that within the range of what it attempts to achieve, it is a more accomplished experience. While the stealth segments are arguably less robust, each and every one of the players environmental attributes are carefully controlled to benefit the games design and pacing. I think within the context of providing a more focused, narrative driven experience, this careful approach to the games design and control of what the player experiences is the correct choice for the type of game that Uncharted 4 is.

I'm not the best person to talk about this with though, as I thought that Watch Dogs was a great game in its own right.

 

[Javin98]

You realize enemies don't search for the location of the explosion, but go into alert and spread out, that's not luring, that's just changing enemy AI states to be less lenient. There's no true silent lures dude. It actually says a lot that a grenade is supposed to be considered a form of enemy manipulation during stealth, instead of you know, a rock, whistling, knocking, bricks etc.

I never said it was truly silent, I myself admitted it puts them on alert. However, I said lures are not always necessary in stealth. I already elaborated enough earlier, maybe reply from that instead?

 

[Ricky_R]

Man, you guys weren't kidding when you said the game looked mindblowing. I was trying to keep my expectations in check so there was no disappointment, but by GOD this game looks too good.

 

[LiK]

Man, you guys weren't kidding when you said the game looked mindblowing. I was trying to keep my expectations in check so there was no disappointment, but by GOD this game looks too good.

believe it or not, it only looks better and better as you progress.

 

[Ricker]

Some of the puzzles are so boring and stretched out...I am stuck on the last part of the one in Madagascar with the paintings and the rotation etc etc...why doesnt that one ask me to skip it like a previous one so I can go on lol...

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I set it up basically perfectly to be able to get through the chapter 13 for the trophy on Crushing and then everyone fires laser beams when they see me and kill me right when I jump for the last pylon before safety...

 

[LiK]

Some of the puzzles are so boring and stretched out...I am stuck on the last part of the one in Madagascar with the paintings and the rotation etc etc...why doesnt that one ask me to skip it like a previous one so I can go on lol...

wah? one of my fave puzzles.

 

[Nightengale]

They gave Nate the ability to suddenly be able to mark and see enemies through walls...which isn't a very Nathan Drake trait at all, even less so since he's been "out of the game" for years.

It's cited as a design compromise that was included because play testers complained about having no sense of enemy location. It's basically the Listen mode equivalent , where the game wasn't designed around it, but was added because of play test feedback .

Same with treasure pickups that was included only for the sake of replay value and trophies. Note how journals pick-ups in U4 is tonally realistic while the old treasure pick-ups are still gamey "disappear into pockets" stuff.

Ultimately, it's not perfect. I would want more mechanics too and I think it wouldn't take away from Nathan Drake, but the I see ND's design sensibilities being in that vein and I don't expect it to change much .

 

[JTripper]

So, I've decided that the

Spoiler

exploding skeletons section

is the worst part of this entire game.

 

[Ricker]

wah? one of my fave puzzles.

I cant figure out the last part,with the 2 question mark...

 

[CrazyDude]

I cant figure out the last part,with the 2 question mark...

Spoiler

Just do it how you have been doing the other. Look at the first squares sides and look at the question mark one that matches. Also just think of the upright question mark as an upright pirate symbol. So you turn the pirate symbol the same direction as the question mark.

 

[Anung]

So, I've decided that the

Spoiler

exploding skeletons section

is the worst part of this entire game.

I'm dreading that bit on crushing.

 

[Ricker]

Spoiler

What's your problem with that one? You just match up the black triangles on the paper with each other and then turn the ones in the central room in the same direction.

Doing that and it worked until the last part with the question marks...

 

[RespectThySole]

So, I've decided that the

Spoiler

exploding skeletons section

is the worst part of this entire game.

That chapter was so baffling.

 

[JTripper]

I'm dreading that bit on crushing.

I'm doing it now and nothing is comparable so far in terms of just being unfairly difficult. It's fucking awful.

 

[LiK]

Doing that and it worked until the last part with the question marks...

Spoiler

rotate those around until they lock in.

:3

 

[Plague Doctor]

Annnnnd finished it tonight.

My only one complaint and this is in any video games

Spoiler

when the last boss has a brand new gameplay mechanic never used before in the entire game. Seriously, I hate when games pull this shit.

Other than than, it's worth all the praise it is receiving!

 

[Soriku]

Just got to the epilogue...WHAT.

 

[Anung]

I'm doing it now and nothing is comparable so far in terms of just being unfairly difficult. It's fucking awful.

That chapter/segment could have easily been left on the cutting room floor.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Fuck yeah did it! For the Chapter 13 portion of the

Spoiler

Peaceful Resolution

trophy, I got through it without even being fully seen on Crushing . 5 hours of work for that lol.

 

[derExperte]

wah? one of my fave puzzles.

The one with the

Spoiler

Monkey Island

reference? Yeah, might've been the best just because of that, clever and fitting. Wish we'd gotten a few more difficult ones though, most solutions were very obvious and just busywork.

 

[El-Pistolero]

In terms of pure mechanics, Uncharted had never been a dense one. In many ways, it's emblematic of Bruce Straley's admiration of Ueda game design.

I could see why the lack of some no-brainer mechanics like luring, etc comes across as being weird, since other games by the same devs have those mechanics, but Uncharted's meat and potatoes have always been about trying to achieve fluid,traversal gunplay.

And effectively any mechanic that promotes you hunkering down has been excised and even melee simplified to the extent you just mash so that you don't have to think too much before moving to the next thing.

I get what Crossing Eden is saying, but likewise, I see what this game is going for and why the nature of combat progression in this game is not about more mechanics, but simply bigger more challenging levels with multiple layers of traversal to challenge your sense of movement and space.

Beautiful post...

 

[LiK]

The one with the

Spoiler

Monkey Island

reference? Yeah, might've been the best just because of that, clever and fitting. Wish we'd gotten a few more difficult ones though, most solutions were very obvious and just busywork.

good ol' Uncharted puzzles.

 

[JTripper]

That chapter/segment could have easily been left on the cutting room floor.

Not to sound disparaging, but that's something that belongs more in a Tomb Raider game. It might legitimately be the only section in the game that fucks up the pacing for me in

Spoiler

the final few chapters

because otherwise everything else in the game I mostly adore give or take a few brief parts.

 

[SixStringPsycho]

Is it hard for any of you to find an online match? I cant seem to join the warmup to unlock other modes

 

[Zaki2407]

Just did Ch 13, 14 and 15 last night.
The level design is fantastic. I really enjoyed the gun fight in these chapters.
Hopping from one platform to another, up, down, left, right, swinging with the rope and landing on top of the bad guys felt sooo good.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It's cited as a design compromise that was included because play testers complained about having no sense of enemy location. It's basically the Listen mode equivalent , where the game wasn't designed around it, but was added because of play test feedback .

Same with treasure pickups that was included only for the sake of replay value and trophies. Note how journals pick-ups in U4 is tonally realistic while the old treasure pick-ups are still gamey "disappear into pockets" stuff.

Ultimately, it's not perfect. I would want more mechanics too and I think it wouldn't take away from Nathan Drake, but the I see ND's design sensibilities being in that vein and I don't expect it to change much .

So they're ok with going against tour hypothetical. Id say many things go against that hypothetical. Considering that the last games had treasure pickups to imply that they were included due to play tests is being a bit disingenuous. The game was designed with enemy marking in mind it's one of the earliest things you learn as a player and like the detection meter is ND adopting modern gaming trends. I'd even expect TLOU2 to be even more systemic especially in comparison to UC4.

 

[zsynqx]

I'm doing it now and nothing is comparable so far in terms of just being unfairly difficult. It's fucking awful.

The cutscene at the end of the section more than makes up for it

 

[Fancy Clown]

So, I've decided that the

Spoiler

exploding skeletons section

is the worst part of this entire game.

I loved that section. The creepy, claustrophobic area and

Spoiler

death traps

were a great source of tension escalation, and segued really nicely into the open gun battles of the next chapter.

My least favorite chapter is 16 by far. It's a big pace killer as it feels awkwardly bolted on to that section (just as the in media res opener feels like it was cut weirdly), and the writing with

Spoiler

Evelyn

was so on the nose and cringy.

 

[Javin98]

So they're ok with going against tour hypothetical. Id say many things go against that hypothetical. Considering that the last games had treasure pickups to imply that they were included due to play tests is being a bit disingenuous. The game was designed with enemy marking in mind it's one of the earliest things you learn as a player and like the detection meter is ND adopting modern gaming trends. I'd even expect TLOU2 to be even more systemic especially in comparison to UC4.

Oh, really? I played the whole game with marking off from the start and I don't feel like it was horribly broken or anything. Saying the game was built with marking in mind is flat out wrong.

 

[Windforce]

Got from chapter 1 to 10 in one sitting today.

I really like the game so far, but still undecided on it. Lots of climbing and dialogue, not as much combat as I was expecting (I guess I see why the 'walking simulator' article, lol).

Anyway I hope to feel it hits a good balance by the end, atm cannot rank the games either. In terms of fun and graphics I still think Uncharted 2 is a match for Uncharted 4.

 

[Nightengale]

So they're ok with going against tour hypothetical. Id say many things go against that hypothetical. Considering that the last games had treasure pickups to imply that they were included due to play tests is being a bit disingenuous. The game was designed with enemy marking in mind it's one of the earliest things you learn as a player and like the detection meter is ND adopting modern gaming trends. I'd even expect TLOU2 to be even more systemic especially in comparison to UC4.

It's not implied. Bruce said in an interview that treasure collectibles were initially added in earlier Uncharted games for replay value.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Anyway I hope to feel it hits a good balance by the end, atm cannot rank the games either. In terms of fun and graphics I still think Uncharted 2 is a match for Uncharted 4.

It keeps the same balance of combat (or lack thereof) throughout the whole game, sadly. There's one late game chapter that has a fairly lengthy and sustained sequence of shootouts though, and it's awesome.

 

[Keihart]

You realize enemies don't search for the location of the explosion, but go into alert and spread out, that's not luring, that's just changing enemy AI states to be less lenient. There's no true silent lures dude. It actually says a lot that a grenade is supposed to be considered a form of enemy manipulation during stealth, instead of you know, a rock, whistling, knocking, bricks etc.


They gave Nate the ability to suddenly be able to mark and see enemies through walls...which isn't a very Nathan Drake trait at all, even less so since he's been "out of the game" for years.

I bet someone like Drake should have superb situational awareness, probably a lot better than most gamers seeing the situations he gets out of. Marking makes kind of sense, just as listening mode (I didn't use either tho)

Edit: Hahahaha, fucking Talbot...

 

[Emerson's Essentia]

Surprised at how humble the ending was.

At least, narratively.

 

[RespectThySole]

Just did Ch 13, 14 and 15 last night.
The level design is fantastic. I really enjoyed the gun fight in these chapters.
Hopping from one platform to another, up, down, left, right, swinging with the rope and landing on top of the bad guys felt sooo good.

15 doesn't even have a gun fight though Agreed on 13. That was the first arena that wowed me and it was so needed after all

Spoiler

that platforming in the first half of 13.

Got from chapter 1 to 10 in one sitting today.

I really like the game so far, but still undecided on it. Lots of climbing and dialogue, not as much combat as I was expecting (I guess I see why the 'walking simulator' article, lol).

Anyway I hope to feel it hits a good balance by the end, atm cannot rank the games either. In terms of fun and graphics I still think Uncharted 2 is a match for Uncharted 4.

It doesn't. The middle third is actually even slower. There's only one chapter that's a bit more amped up like FancyClown said.

 

[Gorillaz]

So, I've decided that the

Spoiler

exploding skeletons section

is the worst part of this entire game.

Honestly Chapter

Spoiler

19 and 20

were probably the best "1, 2 punch" in the game. I hated that too at first but the atmosphere going from one to another was smooth as fuck. Great execution.

I actually think

Spoiler

21

ruins the pacing of it s bit. There really is no reason to have a breather or cool down like thst heading into the big finish


Thst was definitely one of those "looks good on paper but not as good in execution" moments.

 

[JTripper]

I loved that section. The creepy, claustrophobic area and

Spoiler

death traps

were a great source of tension escalation, and segued really nicely into the open gun battles of the next chapter.

My least favorite chapter is 16 by far. It's a big pace killer as it feels awkwardly bolted on to that section (just as the in media res opener feels like it was cut weirdly), and the writing with

Spoiler

Evelyn

was so on the nose and cringy.

Spoiler

16

sucks on replays (though it isn't too terribly long when you rush it) but story-wise I think it fits well considering

Spoiler

the reveal the came at the end of the previous chapter.

I thought it was a welcomed change of pace.

I like the atmosphere and the tight hallway encounter in

Spoiler

19 but those traps

just felt wrong and clunky to roll away from and it didn't feel right to me. I would've just rather had either more exploration or a slightly longer

Spoiler

"run towards the camera while something chases you/explodes"

moment.

 

[Fancy Clown]

15 doesn't even have a gun fight though Agreed on 13. That was the first arena that wowed me and it was so needed after all

Spoiler

that platforming in the first half of 13.

12-16 in particular needed a lot more action. The arena in 13 was obviously great, but I also really liked the string of little shootouts in 14. The setting was awesome.

 

[RespectThySole]

I loved that section. The creepy, claustrophobic area and

Spoiler

death traps

were a great source of tension escalation, and segued really nicely into the open gun battles of the next chapter.

My least favorite chapter is 16 by far. It's a big pace killer as it feels awkwardly bolted on to that section (just as the in media res opener feels like it was cut weirdly), and the writing with

Spoiler

Evelyn

was so on the nose and cringy.

The atmosphere was great and so were the

Spoiler

gun battles, but the exploding bodies were really overused. Terrible design. It needed different traps or a challenging puzzle.

 

[Anung]

The atmosphere was great and so was the

Spoiler

gun battles, but the exploding bodies were really overused. Terrible design. It needed different traps or a challenging puzzle.

Yeah, I can see what they were going for but overusing the same awful trap was frustrating beyond belief.

 

[Nightengale]

So they're ok with going against tour hypothetical. Id say many things go against that hypothetical. Considering that the last games had treasure pickups to imply that they were included due to play tests is being a bit disingenuous. The game was designed with enemy marking in mind it's one of the earliest things you learn as a player and like the detection meter is ND adopting modern gaming trends. I'd even expect TLOU2 to be even more systemic especially in comparison to UC4.

A few things for me to add to this.

1. My hypothetical statement is built on like a dozen interview with Bruce/Neil who always says stuff like "getting you to feel the feelings/emotions of Nathan Drake" and how they're very focused on simplifying mechanics and reducing as much HUD or noise clutter as possible.

2. The treasures statement came from an interview with Bruce , where he talked about how it was in the earlier game to give it replay value, even though nowadays it's more trophy than replay.

3. I'm 90% sure that the marking mechanics was mentioned in some interview somewhere as something added from play test. Not hypothetical, but fact. It's harder to find this article, may need a while.

4. Of course TLOU will be more systemic, because the game world and setting is built on denser mechanics like carrying a bag to carry all the weapons/tools/etc you can find with bigger diversity of enemy types.

 

[tmac456]

Just finished chapter 10. sogood.gif

Playing on hard without auto lock on aiming and feel that it makes the gun battles way more intense and challenging. This game has had me saying holy shit and laughing at the same time at how good it looks and plays.

 

[gamerMan]

Here's a pretty interesting article on how Naughty Dog created the buddy system: http://allenchou.net/2016/05/a-brain-dump-of-what-i-worked-on-for-uncharted-4/

 

[Fancy Clown]

Encounter select screen just makes me sad. There needs to be twice as many on here. I feel like they patched that in because they recognized they put so few in. I'm not one to really play encounters outside of the context of the story though. Sigh.

 

[RespectThySole]

12-16 in particular needed a lot more action. The arena in 13 was obviously great, but I also really liked the string of little shootouts in 14. The setting was awesome.

16 is my least favorite too(along with 21). Felt unnecessary after the alternative explanation in Uncharted 3 and just when you think the game is

Spoiler

going to get going after that nice cutscene at the end of 15 it continues to draaaag. 12-16 needed some serious editing.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Encounter select screen just makes me sad. There needs to be twice as many on here. I feel like they patched that in because they recognized they put so few in. I'm not one to really play encounters outside of the context of the story though. Sigh.

yup

I had a few long moments, just staring at that list in disbelief.


Co-op, save us

 

[TheSpoiler]

I didn't feel bad about skipping certain puzzles.

In fact, I felt fine.