I would say the only beat in the story that didn't completely work for me was (Fairly late game spoilers): When that old lady dies right in front of Nathan and Sam as police are coming, forcing them to adopt a new identity. When it was revealed in Uncharted 3 that his real name wasn't Drake and that he was in an orphanage, my head-canon was that Nate adopted the "descendant of Sir Francis Drake" persona as a coping/survival mechanism while in the orphanage. I think making it into an identity taken out of necessity lessens the character's agency slightly, and I think that whole sequence is pretty contrived. Of course she dies right as the police are on the way.
Him being so obsessed with Sir Francis enough to tie himself to the story and wanting to reach the same greatness was better backstory then "lol guess we can't be Morgans anymore. But hey mom's theory sounds pretty cool, what if we were his descendents"
Some of them are split up in encounter select, but feel like one slightly longer encounter in the game. I'd say most chapters felt like they had 1 or 2 encounters. There are obviously outliers, like
10 having 5 (although I only found 3), but 12, 15 (sort of), 16, 21 don't have any
I think in spite of the fact that progression is really still dragging its ass (I'm at chapter 15 now), I think this is likely my favorite UC in terms of encounters. The stealth stuff is just a real blessing for me personally as I usually got burnt out on the waves of cover encounters halfway through the other 3.
What's odd to me is that I find the truly open spaces where you can just explore wherever you want before proceeding feel right despite mechanically being no different from other traversal-heavy portions, but somehow the wider linear arenas feel like empty bloat when they don't have enemies in them.
Something about borderless exploration doesn't feel like shitty pacing, whereas a linear path that's too wide or long in between encounters is boring. I think there's something fundamental there in the importance of maintaining illusions and balancing the removal of scope with the promise of tension.
I would say the only beat in the story that didn't completely work for me was (Fairly late game spoilers): When that old lady dies right in front of Nathan and Sam as police are coming, forcing them to adopt a new identity. When it was revealed in Uncharted 3 that his real name wasn't Drake and that he was in an orphanage, my head-canon was that Nate adopted the "descendant of Sir Francis Drake" persona as a coping/survival mechanism while in the orphanage. I think making it into an identity taken out of necessity lessens the character's agency slightly, and I think that whole sequence is pretty contrived. Of course she dies right as the police are on the way.
Yeah, I hated everything about that. 3 handled it so much better by leaving things to our imagination and
implied he took the name to aspire to greatness that he didn't have as some orphan. In 4 now he's part of some line of great historians, and his daughter takes up the mantle too ugh. It's just too "perfect". The dialogue in the Evelyn scene was sooooo on the nose and cringey too. Sticks out like a sore thumb
Frank Tzeng (Lead Character Artist at ND) Just uploaded a few images of the characters he did for the game. He is the one who did Drake! Absolutely amazing stuff.
Yeah, I meant that's what I would've wanted if it were near the final area. King's Bay needed some action after it, but for a climax to the whole game, that would've been a good place for it.
Some of them are split up in encounter select, but feel like one slightly longer encounter in the game. I'd say most chapters felt like they had 1 or 2 encounters. There are obviously outliers, like
10 having 5 (although I only found 3), but 12, 15 (sort of), 16, 21 don't have any
Well, sure. But having discrete puzzle/traversal chapters is nothing new for the series (they've been doing it since UC1). I know "lack of combat" is a hot topic now but I don't think that Scotland is an outlier in terms of encounters. Plenty of chapters have multiple encounters.
Definitely. I used to chill to the Uncharted 2&3 title screens before starting them up, but Uncharted 4's does nothing for me. They cribbed a little too much from TLoU with this game. Just because it works well in one universe doesn't mean you have to apply it to another, already established one.
For example, that chapter 16
snorefest was shoehorned solely to generate "Left Behind" feels when Uncharted 3 already established a more fitting reason why Nate goes by Drake. Just made me roll my eyes. Could've at least spared us by making it a cutscene.
I think in spite of the fact that progression is really still dragging its ass (I'm at chapter 15 now), I think this is likely my favorite UC in terms of encounters. The stealth stuff is just a real blessing for me personally as I usually got burnt out on the waves of cover encounters halfway through the other 3.
What's odd to me is that I find the truly open spaces where you can just explore wherever you want before proceeding feel right despite mechanically being no different from other traversal-heavy portions, but somehow the wider linear arenas feel like empty bloat when they don't have enemies in them.
Something about borderless exploration doesn't feel like shitty pacing, whereas a linear path that's too wide or long in between encounters is boring. I think there's something fundamental there in the importance of maintaining illusions and balancing the removal of scope with the promise of tension.
The thing is a lot of those wide linear platforming sections just weren't varied enough to make it feel like anything more than padding, especially the more mountainous regions. You'd be hard pressed to find much difference between
the first half of chapter 13 and chapter 21.(or even the platforming areas of 8&9) I kept thinking that there's no way they're doing this shit again in the game's penultimate chapter. Not even a setpiece or small battle to spice things up.
You might be on to something with that because the more open areas like chapters
10&17 were really good, but at the same time it's important to remember that those areas also had nice firefights sprinkled in to help with the pacing. 10&17
are two of the best chapters in the game.
Edit: Hell, you can include
chapter 12 in that too when you're off the boat. They all looked and played so similarly.
Well, sure. But having discrete puzzle/traversal chapters is nothing new for the series (they've been doing it since UC1). I know "lack of combat" is a hot topic now but I don't think that Scotland is an outlier in terms of encounters. Plenty of chapters have multiple encounters.
It's not discrete puzzle/traversal chapters. They're all puzzle/traversal chapters outside of chapter
20
] or Chapter
11
which is probably 60/40 on traversal/action. The game feels like 80-90% traversal/puzzles/story. Chapter 8 felt like one of the few chapters that felt like a slightly more even ratio, where after a bit of traversal and puzzling you'd have an encounter to break things up. Most of the other chapters, if they have combat, only have 1 or 2 of those super brief encounters rather than 5 or 6. There's almost no sustained or balanced stretches of action in the entire game.
That's the only COD I didn't play but I don't doubt it.
Does anyone know if the infinite ammo bonus turns the trophies off? I literally cannot get past this section without it. Got no ammo and the enemies are keeping me hanging from a ledge with no means to get up without being bombarded by grenades.
People keep complaining about the number of times you boost characters up and also the hand grabbing at the last moment from a jump/pulling a character up - well, I'm replying Uncharted 2 at the moment and I've already seen those scenarios dozens of times. It's obviously nothing new, I just wondered if people remember that Naughty Dog has used these tropes many, many times in the past with previous entries in the series.
People keep complaining about the number of times you boost characters up and also the hand grabbing at the last moment from a jump/pulling a character up - well, I'm replying Uncharted 2 at the moment and I've already seen those scenarios dozens of times. It's obviously nothing new, I just wondered if people remember that Naughty Dog has used these tropes many, many times in the past with previous entries in the series.
What people are seemingly having a problem with this time around is that there's a lot more to it. Still pretty basic spatial "puzzles," but they're longer.
Yeah, I hated everything about that. 3 handled it so much better by leaving things to our imagination and
implied he took the name to aspire to greatness that he didn't have as some orphan. In 4 now he's part of some line of great historians, and his daughter takes up the mantle too ugh. It's just too "perfect". The dialogue in the Evelyn scene was sooooo on the nose and cringey too. Sticks out like a sore thumb
I doubt I need to spoiler this, but I will just in case.
Didn't their mother kill herself? Am I misremembering? And their father dumped them in an orphanage, for me learning that Cassie was a historian doesn't take anything away from the shitty upbringing they had, or their desire to associate with something greater than themselves. It worked for me. My only issue with the Sam introduction was how it lessened Sully's influence. Although Nate says they took it in turns going to prison. I guess Nate was alone a lot so it fits.
It's not discrete puzzle/traversal chapters. They're all puzzle/traversal chapters outside of chapter
20
] or Chapter
11
which is probably 60/40 on traversal/action. The game feels like 80-90% traversal/puzzles/story. Chapter 8 felt like one of the few chapters that felt like a slightly more even ratio, where after a bit of traversal and puzzling you'd have an encounter to break things up. Most of the other chapters, if they have combat, only have 1 or 2 of those super brief encounters rather than 5 or 6. There's almost no sustained or balanced stretches of action in the entire game.
It did way too much to explain something that didn't need explaining, and gave a much weaker reason.
It's not discrete puzzle/traversal chapters. They're all puzzle/traversal chapters outside of chapter
20
] or Chapter
11
which is probably 60/40 on traversal/action. The game feels like 80-90% traversal/puzzles/story. Chapter 8 felt like one of the few chapters that felt like a slightly more even ratio, where after a bit of traversal and puzzling you'd have an encounter to break things up. Most of the other chapters, if they have combat, only have 1 or 2 of those super brief encounters rather than 5 or 6. There's almost no sustained or balanced stretches of action in the entire game.
That's not true at all. Other than the chapters you indicated you have (using Scotland as a baseline for a good number of combat encounters):
9: Just one sequence at the end but it's one of the more sustained combat/setpiece encounters in the game.
10: Lots of combat
14: Lots of combat. The second half of the chapter (when you drop through the floor on the rope) is one of the more sustained combat sections in the game.
15: Short chapter where a large chunk of it is an action setpiece (falling tower leading into Nadine fight).
17 & 18: Like 8 & 10 there is regular combat throughout and these are some pretty long chapters.
19: A couple of combat sections and a setpiece as well.
I agree that the combat is never really particularly sustained. However your original post referenced Chapter 8 which also isn't sustained either. There are quite a few chapters with similar pacing to Chapter 8.
On my replay I've been (pleasantly) surprised how frequently combat encounters occur when you maintain a more critical path approach. No, it's not anywhere near Uncharted 2 levels. But it doesn't feel like the 80-90% statistic you cited either.
What people are seemingly having a problem with this time around is that there's a lot more to it. Still pretty basic spatial "puzzles," but they're longer.
That's not true at all. Other than the chapters you indicated you have (using Scotland as a baseline for a good number of combat encounters):
9: Just one sequence at the end but it's one of the more sustained combat/setpiece encounters in the game.
10: Lots of combat
14: Lots of combat. The second half of the chapter (when you drop through the floor on the rope) is one of the more sustained combat sections in the game.
15: Short chapter where a large chunk of it is an action setpiece (falling tower leading into Nadine fight).
17 & 18: Like 8 & 10 there is regular combat throughout and these are some pretty long chapters.
19: A couple of combat sections and a setpiece as well.
I agree that the combat is never really particularly sustained. However your original post referenced Chapter 8 which also isn't sustained either. There are quite a few chapters with similar pacing to Chapter 8.
On my replay I've been (pleasantly) surprised how frequently combat encounters occur when you maintain a more critical path approach. No, it's not anywhere near Uncharted 2 levels. But it doesn't feel like the 80-90% statistic you cited either.
17 and 18 only have two encounters each, and as you said they're fairly long chapters. And I don't think 19 had a set-piece? Just the linear encounter in the tunnels.
Maybe I will feel the balance of combat is better on a replay, but they were so, so good, but spaced so far away and never lasted long.
Heh. Didn't notice the "spatial" part, but yeah those sucked too. Tbh I didn't have a huge problem with it the first playthrough as I don't think there was nearly as much of it as there was in TLOU(could be misremembering?), but I was sick of them by my second playthrough.
That's not true at all. Other than the chapters you indicated you have (using Scotland as a baseline for a good number of combat encounters):
9: Just one sequence at the end but it's one of the more sustained combat/setpiece encounters in the game.
10: Lots of combat
14: Lots of combat. The second half of the chapter (when you drop through the floor on the rope) is one of the more sustained combat sections in the game.
15: Short chapter where a large chunk of it is an action setpiece (falling tower leading into Nadine fight).
17 & 18: Like 8 & 10 there is regular combat throughout and these are some pretty long chapters.
19: A couple of combat sections and a setpiece as well.
I agree that the combat is never really particularly sustained. However your original post referenced Chapter 8 which also isn't sustained either. There are quite a few chapters with similar pacing to Chapter 8.
On my replay I've been (pleasantly) surprised how frequently combat encounters occur when you maintain a more critical path approach. No, it's not anywhere near Uncharted 2 levels. But it doesn't feel like the 80-90% statistic you cited either.
I agree with the Scottland chapters and 17&18, but there's still a lot of platforming as you admit. Don't get me wrong they're still great chapters, but there's just as much emphasis on the platforming in those chapters as there is in the shooting.(moreso in 9)
Counting 15 in that though is just silly. There's
no firefight in that chapter, just dudes rpging you while you climb during a very short setpiece. Only other thing there is the Nadine fight which was worthless in terms of gameplay. The bulk of the chapter was still walking, talking and platforming.
19 is a balanced chapter too I guess, but I don't feel that chapter was well designed so eh.
14 is okay
, but the first half of it is incredibly boring due to the pace of the game at that point and the arenas didn't live up to the one in 13.
The action-focused chapters are
10&20. You can count 11 in that too as a setpiece, but a firefight was needed at the ended.
I don't even know what the percentage would be honestly.ers):
9: Just one sequence at the end but it's one of the more sustained combat/setpiece encounters in the game.
10: Lots of combat
14: Lots of combat. The second half of the chapter (when you drop through the floor on the rope) is one of the more sustained combat sections in the game.
15: Short chapter where a large chunk of it is an action setpiece (falling tower leading into Nadine fight).
17 & 18: Like 8 & 10 there is regular combat throughout and these are some pretty long chapters.
19: A couple of combat sections and a setpiece as well.
I agree that the combat is never really particularly sustained. However your original post referenced Chapter 8 which also isn't sustained either. There are quite a few chapters with similar pacing to Chapter 8.
On my replay I've been (pleasantly) surprised how frequently combat encounters occur when you maintain a more critical path approach. No, it's not anywhere near Uncharted 2 levels. But it doesn't feel like the 80-90% statistic you cited either.
I agree with the Scottland chapters and 17&18, but there's still a lot of platforming as you admit. Don't get me wrong, they're still great chapters, but there's just as much emphasis on the platforming in those chapters as there is in the shooting.(even moreso in 9)
Counting 15 in that though is just silly. There's
no firefight in that chapter just dudes rpging you while you climb during a very short setpiece. Only other thing there is the Nadine fight which was worthless in terms of gameplay. The bulk of the chapter was still walking, talking and platforming.
19 is a balanced chapter too I guess, but I don't feel that chapter was well designed so eh.
14 is okay
, but the first half of it is incredibly boring due to the pace of the game at that point and the arenas didn't live up to the one in 13.
The action-focused chapters are
10&20. You can count 11 in that too, but a firefight was needed at the end.
I don't even know what the percentage would be honestly, but it's drastically different from UC2. I think most would agree that UC2 could've had slightly less encounters near the end, but this was too much in the other direction for me.
I doubt I need to spoiler this, but I will just in case.
Didn't their mother kill herself? Am I misremembering? And their father dumped them in an orphanage, for me learning that Cassie was a historian doesn't take anything away from the shitty upbringing they had, or their desire to associate with something greater than themselves. It worked for me. My only issue with the Sam introduction was how it lessened Sully's influence. Although Nate says they took it in turns going to prison. I guess Nate was alone a lot so it fits.
The theme of the game series is greatness from small beginnings. Making Drake the son of the greatest "historian" ever who died because of a vague disease is the direct opposite of a small beginning and the whole "normal guy" thing. He was a ten year old who understood Latin.
Chapter 20 I was like "hell yeah, it's end game time so the game is gonna explode with crazy fire fights and action", and it did...for that one chapter. Why you do this to me Bruce Straley.
Oh well, for all my negativity the past few pages I still loved the game. Probably my favorite of the year thus far, or at least tied with Dark Souls 3...not sure which I like better at this point. But it's so good that the big, huge, negative I have with the game stands out all the more and that one little fix would make the game so much better than it already is.
The theme of the game series is greatness from small beginnings. Making Drake the son of the greatest "historian" ever who died because of a vague disease is the direct opposite of a small beginning and the whole "normal guy" thing. He was a ten year old who understood Latin.
I just checked to make sure I wasn't totally misremembering, his mother committed suicide. He was dumped in an orphanage at 5, he hardly led a privileged life. I'd say that still counts as a small beginning.
I agree with the Scottland chapters and 17&18, but there's still a lot of platforming as you admit. Don't get me wrong, they're still great chapters, but there's just as much emphasis on the platforming in those chapters as there is in the shooting.(even moreso in 9)
I agree- I'm just saying that I think the pacing of Scotland is actually pretty normal for the game.
Counting 15 in that though is just silly. There's
no firefight in that chapter just dudes rpging you while you climb during a very short setpiece. Only other thing there is the Nadine fight which was worthless in terms of gameplay. The bulk of the chapter was still walking, talking and platforming.
I'm just saying that it's an action set piece ( and I think it's one of the longer ones in the game). Not that it's a combat arena. However it's still a very, very short chapter. I got through it in about 15 minutes on a replay last night. So I think it's 50/50 exploration/set piece.
14 is okay
, but the first half of it is incredibly boring due to the pace of the game at that point and the arenas didn't live up to the one in 13.
Disagree on both counts. I think the first part is the best exploration segment in the entire game. On my first playthrough I spent a long, long time exploring everything. It's one of the most exploration-dense areas in the games in terms of optional converationas, journal notes, and items you can interact with.
However on a replay you can walk through the area in about 5 minutes (if that) if you please and get right into the action in the second half. And those combat arenas are two of my favorites in the game.
Maybe I've just watched the PSX demo too many times but the combat arena in 13 is one of my least favorites.
I don't even know what the percentage would be honestly, but it's drastically different from UC2. I think most would agree that UC2 could've had slightly less encounters near the end, but this was too much in the other direction for me.
I definitely agree that its much slower paced than UC2. I wouldn't say it's better or worse. Just different. Too me it's like going from "For a Few Dollars More" to "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly."
To any ND devs that worked on the vegetation in UC4. I want to kiss your fucking hands and face. Thank you for the variety and details. It has made my exploration and experience of the game about a million times better because that shit is my kryptonite!
That's the thing is that it really doesn't have that much mobility over other shooters unless you're solely hanging out by contextual gameplay points like places where you can rope swing. ND had better stealth in their last game too so I don't see the excuse here. Especially since I straight up stealthed through the entire level. not every combat arena has mud or water, the majority of them don't, the majority of combat arenas have at most two sections where you can swing with a rope.
Well behind on this thread, but this post is pretty insane.
Last night, on Crushing even, I came to the first big fight in
Scotland
and was leaping off edges, hanging from things as cover to shoot over them, rolling from cover to cover, breaking into stealth and flanking enemies, and leaping off tall things to gank guys with one punch.
All of the above moves in the space of 30 seconds.
"Mobility" in this game isn't defined as "rope". It's how Drake can climb, roll, jump, rope and use cover, and you mix these things up constantly while you're playing.
And as the other person, stealth is a simple addition to Uncharted's combat. You can't compare Uncharted 4 and TLoU directly like that, in gameplay stakes. TLoU has systems in place to incentivise stealth (ie paucity of resources) and has built its stealth/combat mechanics around this balance. Uncharted 4 is a shooter first, and stealth is present simply to let you have a breather, regain your health, and possibly take out an enemy or two before you're spotted again.
Oh well, for all my negativity the past few pages I still loved the game. Probably my favorite of the year thus far, or at least tied with Dark Souls 3...not sure which I like better at this point. But it's so good that the big, huge, negative I have with the game stands out all the more and that one little fix would make the game so much better than it already is.
I'm a little deflated now. All the waiting, the hype, the anticipation and here we are a week later, done and dusted (mostly).
I enjoy the MP but I've already had my fill and it feels weird running around as Drake and co. in a non-narrative environment.
It's all the more jarring coming off the pacing and tone of the campaign.
As I've said earlier in the thread, I'm replaying this with partner currently but after that I'm not sure the game has a lot more to give me.
Of course the experience and seeing these characters get the send off they deserve has been worth the price of admission, but it's still sad to think it's just about over for me.
I was pleasantly surprised by the little hints about it you can find earlier in the game when you know what to look for:
- Sam's personification of Alcazar in the flashback has identical personal motivation to Sam himself only he's an evil bastard.
- Nadine tells Rafe in Scotland that he was trying to draw "him" out. At that time you think she is referring to Nate, and Sam even explicitly tries to imply that afterwards. In retrospect she was clearly referring to Sam.
- Nadine mentions not trusting a Drake because they will double cross you. At the time it doesn't make sense because Nate just met her and never tried to cross her.
The theme of the game series is greatness from small beginnings. Making Drake the son of the greatest "historian" ever who died because of a vague disease is the direct opposite of a small beginning and the whole "normal guy" thing. He was a ten year old who understood Latin.
I see you still don't understand the whole "normal guy" thing huh? By the way, he understood Latin because he was mostly raised in a Catholic orphanage.
I just checked to make sure I wasn't totally misremembering, his mother committed suicide. He was dumped in an orphanage at 5, he hardly led a privileged life. I'd say that still counts as a small beginning.
Chapter 20 I was like "hell yeah, it's end game time so the game is gonna explode with crazy fire fights and action", and it did...for that one chapter. Why you do this to me Bruce Straley.
Oh well, for all my negativity the past few pages I still loved the game. Probably my favorite of the year thus far, or at least tied with Dark Souls 3...not sure which I like better at this point. But it's so good that the big, huge, negative I have with the game stands out all the more and that one little fix would make the game so much better than it already is.
Yeah, it's second for me after Dark Souls 3 and will probably still be top 5 by the year's end. Only thing coming out that will pass it for sure is Blood & Wine.
That's the thing for me too, if it was just some shit game like Tomb Raider or Division, then I wouldn't even care, but it had so much potential for greatness that it's a shame that it didn't quite come together as well as it could've.
Hoping for a great DLC and that I enjoy the multiplayer.
I'm about to start chapter 19 now, my only real complaint with the game is the combat. I know combat was never really a big thing in the series, I mean, the gun-play has always been pretty average as far as feel goes. The issue really is that some levels are catered to movement, with the grappling hook and a lot of spots with foliage to escape their attention and jump from stealth to active. However, there seems to be a lot of levels where this isn't possible and it's just me being pinned to one piece of cover that will eventually be destroyed and praying I don't die before I run across. The game is fun when it lets you move around and shoot people, but when you're confined in a tight space it sucks. Other than that, sometimes Drake doesn't want to jump to the place I want him to go, or I he just won't turn where I need him too, especially when I have him hanging on a ledge and then he needs to jump behind him. I've died way more to falling than actual combat.
I'm about to start chapter 19 now, my only real complaint with the game is the combat. I know combat was never really a big thing in the series, I mean, the gun-play has always been pretty average as far as feel goes. The issue really is that some levels are catered to movement, with the grappling hook and a lot of spots with foliage to escape their attention and jump from stealth to active. However, there seems to be a lot of levels where this isn't possible and it's just me being pinned to one piece of cover that will eventually be destroyed and praying I don't die before I run across. The game is fun when it lets you move around and shoot people, but when you're confined in a tight space it sucks. Other than that, sometimes Drake doesn't want to jump to the place I want him to go, or I he just won't turn where I need him too, especially when I have him hanging on a ledge and then he needs to jump behind him. I've died way more to falling than actual combat.
)...