An important thing about Nate being forgiven by Elena which relates to her development as a character as alluded to above, is that she realises that she loves the Drake she sees in Libertalia, rather than the grey unexcited man she lives with. This is so clear in the scene in Averys mansion where they're discussing what happened. She clearly realises that she loves the adventurous and curious facets of Drakes character and that you can't take the adventurer out of the treasure hunter. So not only is it a part of her own personality that enjoys the excitement, it's a huge part of why she loves Drake in the first place. Of course it's going to be relatively easy for her to forgive him for what he's done.
And in the end, where she buys JMI, leaving Drake with a bittersweet stun at her deed. Shows that she would do anything, being legal and safer this time, yet still an adventure both of them crave, since she first met him and fell in love with him, on the adventures.
a white protagonist destroying half a Madgascar city while lying to his wife and then getting off scot free. really missed opportunity to critique the idea of the current status quo instead of reinforcing it.
That's the thing too is that it's nowhere near as pulpy as the previous games. You can see where they made way more efforts to stay grounded despite some grand moments.
The lack of supernatural is what ruins the A story. Nobody has any valid motivation to kill each other if it's not for world dominating power/stop the bad guys from getting it. They should want to go nah nah I found the treasure and you didn't not kill over it. Play dirty like the phone hacking works but the killing doesn't. If people didn't like the supernatural ND should have made it better.
None of those things are bittersweet, bittersweet doesn't=everyone gets a cookie at the end except for the underused villain. TLOU doesn't have a bittersweet ending, it's a dark ending where Joel, a madman, has possibly doomed mankind due to his selfishness and whole lying to the face of the person most important to him.
The ending also doesn't work because huge chunks of the Nate/Elana story happened between games off camera with no flashback explaining it. They somehow got married and separated without Nate ever saying I love you between 2 and 3 and then patched things back up and hung up the boots between 3 and 4? Those are huge important parts of the story that we know nothing about.
Oh and I disagree with TLOU. Even if you could get a cure/vaccine from Ellie, how in the world would you deploy it? If it's a cure, how do you inject it or whatever into millions of infected worldwide? If it's a vaccine, it stops you from getting infected from spores or a bite but doesn't change the fact that the infected try and kill you.
There was no changing anything. That was life now and you just had to adapt. Joel saved Ellie from dying needlessly. I don't think that was the intended interpretation of the ending but it's the only one that makes any sense
And in the end, where she buys JMI, leaving Drake with a bittersweet stun at her deed. Shows that she would do anything, being legal and safer this time, yet still an adventure both of them crave, since she first met him and fell in love with him, on the adventures.
And it explains why things never worked out between them before in between games. He'd either lose that spark when not on adventure, or go off and do something stupid by himself and leave her in the dust.
The ending to this rectifies this because now they have a compromise, and it's something they can do together and build a life around.
Uncharted is a throwback to that over the top 80s/90s summers blockbuster with the Indy Jones globetrotting feel. It's suppose to be the grandiose adventure.
Does it need to show restraint at times? yes but at the same time it's suppose to be big ass action. I don't understand the problem.
And it explains why things never worked out between them before in between games. He'd either lose that spark when not on adventure, or go off and do something stupid by himself and leave her in the dust.
The ending to this rectifies this because now they have a compromise, and it's something they can do together and build a life around.
Uncharted is a throwback to that over the top 80s/90s summers blockbuster with the Indy Jones globetrotting feel. It's suppose to be the grandiose adventure.
Does it need to show restraint at times? yes but at the same time it's suppose to be big ass action. I don't understand the problem.
There was no changing anything. That was life now and you just had to adapt. Joel saved Ellie from dying needlessly. I don't think that was the intended interpretation of the ending but it's the only one that makes any sense
Also going based on what Ellie has said throughout the game, things she still wants to learn and experience... I really doubt she was intending to die. She see's through's Joel lie... But I think she just accepts that. Since, it's a lie that keeps someone with her. Everyone else has left her, but Joel is still there. A lie it may be, but a lie she is willing to believe in.
Criticising that aspect of the story seems pretty stupid to be honest. He's obviously done worse over the years hence their on again off again relationship between all of the previous games.
One of the big parts of this game is how grown up all of the characters are and how they deal with issues like adults (or they are judged as though they should). It would be some tv drama shit if she held such a massive grudge by the end, and this isn't even taking account of both the characters growth in the story.
Criticising that aspect of the story seems pretty stupid to be honest. He's obviously done worse over the years hence their on again off again relationship between all of the previous games.
One of the big parts of this game is how grown up all of the characters are and how they deal with issues like adults (or they are judged as though they should). It would be some tv drama shit if she held such a massive grudge by the end, and this isn't even taking account of both the characters growth in the story.
Yeah, I'm not sure how that would be a better avenue for the story. It seems like the characters actually tried to deal with their problems in more adult and humanizing (read: flawed) ways than the ham-fisted bullshit you get in a lot of stories where the problems simply stem from a refusal to communicate like normal people.
No it isn't. All this means to me is that Elena still loves Nathan, and is willing to work things out. This was a good step to forgiveness, but the story implies that they weren't out of the woods yet.
That's the song of the jeep scene, right? Fantastic moment that really got me good. I wasn't expecting a moment like that, and it really makes a good job pointing the mixed emotions of both Elena and Drake.
That's the song of the jeep scene, right? Fantastic moment that really got me good, i wasn't expecting a moment like that, and it really makes a good job pointed the mixed emotions of both Elena and Drake.
That's the song of the jeep scene, right? Fantastic moment that really got me good, i wasn't expecting a moment like that, and it really makes a good job pointed the mixed emotions of both Elena and Drake.
That's the song of the jeep scene, right? Fantastic moment that really got me good, i wasn't expecting a moment like that, and it really makes a good job pointed the mixed emotions of both Elena and Drake.
Yes, it was a beautiful scene, in the back of my mind though I wondered if I was missing treasures by just driving through. I didn't want to break the moment but I couldn't help but wonder.
This was one of the few times I really took notice of the score, there is this theme, and also the music which plays during the intense shootouts which is pretty epic.
No it isn't. All this means to me is that Elena still loves Nathan, and is willing to work things out. This was a good step to forgiveness, but the story implies that they weren't out of the woods yet.
I think he can be forgiven for crashing through a few fences when there is an armored car chasing after him spraying bullets in every direction. Maybe you not watching action movies is part of the issue you have, because the tone and feel of action in these games is not the same as something like the last of us. I think the games make that very clear. Action in Uncharted is about exhilaration and isn't treated with serious gravity. It's like every single other action adventure story ever.
Yet the game tries as hard as possible to humanize everyone, (except for Rafe) . The tone is at odds with itself because the game wants to be part cliche action movie and part deconstruction of characters and doesn't go all the way on either.
She did not forgive him after a couple of quips though, I don't know how you can say this. Up until Nate tried to get Sam to give up the treasure, I thought Elena was going to up and leave Nate when they got off the island. She is distant from him until he is finally honest with her about why he lied to her. He didn't want to lose her and was protecting himself. From that point she was less distant, and I think she was close to forgiving him at the end. Partly because she missed the adventure too, this was Elena's character development too. It's not all about what Nate wants, she learnt something about herself too, which is why she eventually forgave him.
That to me felt like the game saying that Drake did nothing wrong. Since apparently Elena misses adventure too, so thank god that he lied to her for weeks and got her tangled up with mercenaries.
You are over your head here a little, very important thing about a story is that not everything needs to be explained but rather be capable to be explained. Explaining everything treats the espectator as dumb, that's like 50% of anime and bad TV with character speaking their feelings at every turn and having boring exposition.
I think there's a pretty clear difference line between vague kinds like
follow the sound of gunfire and having better explanations besides Elena seemingly having telepathy for finding Drake, the other games were way better about that part in particular.
More so, in a pulpy action adventure is all about being self aware of the jumps in logic and dance around what is posible and what is not, that's a big part of what is fun about the genre.
Also the lies about the trip are clearly not what really got Elena upset, but the fact that Drake was liying everyday about what kind of life would make him happy
No it was the part where he lied to her for weeks, "if you were killed o wouldn't even have known about
Maybe is just a taste thing, if you don't enjoy 80´s action movies, then i have no idea what kind of story would you expect out of an uncharted game.
This is the least 80s action movie out of any IC game by a long shot. Again, this would've been fine with me if they hadn't stuck so blindly to every trope established earlier in the plot
Edit: Yes the game pace was a little off and is not perfect, but the things you mention are hardly the areas where i think it can be improved up really[/QUOTE]
God forbid someone offers up any kind of critique for an Uncharted game.
How is he supposed to make amends? They had conversations, he explained himself, that's what adults do. They love each other, and he hurt her, but Drake always thought it was a bigger issue than Elena did. And he was finally honest with her, which is what she wanted all along
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They're adults but Drake spent the game emulating his former self albeit more cynical, Elena may not have known Sam but she's left Drake for seemingly less than what he pulled in UC4. Actually that's kinda funny, how would Drake even explain the event so UC4 to his daughter, "Yea so I also destroyed a church and a city ruining away from mercenaries who were shooting me, there was a guy at the dock who couldn't believe the destruction so I waved for the lols." Cassie:wow that's fucked up "Language." Yea I really don't consider the writing of this game to be as deserving as some sort of magnum opus of ND let alone gaming itself.
I really just don't understand your takeaways.
His "great deeds"? You know that he was trying to save his brother and get the treasure because he thought his brother's life was in danger. And he was going to let Rafe have the treasure until A) he needed to rescue his brother again and B) Nadine locked him in a room with Rafe who then tried to kill Nate. Nate didn't want to fight, he didn't want treasure. All he wanted to do was save his brother who he felt responsible for, and empathy for since he understands what's driving him.
Yes Sam getting off scot free is an issue with me too. Especially given the marketing constantly playing the EXACT audio of Drake yelling SAAMMMMM. They could've been much braver with the narrative, especially in terms of deconstruction tropes since they go through so much trouble to ground the narrative.
He is "rewarded" narratively because he addressed his flaws. He made amends with Elena, he moved on in his life, he gave up adventure, he saved his brother. Like he is not this awful person you seem to think he is
Acknowledging that he's flawed shouldn't be a get out of jail free card, people who've done worse or better yet less have gotten what they deserved in the end. He's not a straight up villain like Joel but he's pretty damn flawed to get off with absolutely nothing pertinent happening to him besides "oh I might lose my wife."
No it isn't. All this means to me is that Elena still loves Nathan, and is willing to work things out. This was a good step to forgiveness, but the story implies that they weren't out of the woods yet.
All of the tension between them after that moment is non existent. I mean, she straight up offers to let Sam stay with them and says she'll take good care of Nathan. Like, he's basically good after that point because like the other UC games, the conversation ends with them joking with each other. A couple days beforehand she couldn't even stand him standing close.
Assuming it's a reference to the original Uncharted 4 Story Trailer having Assassin's Creed 4 Concept Art left behind in it (most likely as a placeholder).
Some well counter arguments against Crossing Eden.
No offense Crossing Eden but if you rarely see Action Movies, thats why you dont get it. If you dont understand why things happen in these flicks, go and watch more. Not everything has to be "realistic". "Oh no Drake just ran over some minority's food stand...someone put a stop to him!! We need to be taught a lesson not do do such things in our world!!" wtf..if something like that is what catches your attention, you are playing the game wrong.
Not only that but keeping comparing it to TLOU. Really?
Within the 1st chapter of the game, Joel's daughter dies. Its a totally different game/experience from the get go. ND did kind of fool everyone with "A Thief's End" title of the U4 but it would of been un-Uncharted like for the franchise to end with a MC's death be it Sully,Elena or Drake. Even at the end, the player wouldn't like to see Sam die because by looking at Drake's own reaction, you know he loves the dude dearly and it would have crushed Drake emotionally. Like that's something you wouldn't want to end the franchise at.
Also the end of TLOU is great in that its sorta open for interpretation. Since its a totally different tone, it has maybe a "more mature" ending. Did Joel screw humanity? What if Fireflies did find a cure but kept it for them only for the rest to rot and suffer? Would have been for nothing and Joel would have lost another daughter. Fuck, I'd do the same and try to save those who we really love in such a world as its fucked beyond repair.
All of the tension between them after that moment is non existent. I mean, she straight up offers to let Sam stay with them and says she'll take good care of Nathan. Like, he's basically good after that point because like the other UC games, the conversation ends with them joking with each other. A couple days beforehand she couldn't even stand him standing close.
D... Do you think people are that one dimensional? That showing that people care about each other still, means that they have no problems? Just because they show to still be comfortable and loving to each other, doesn't mean they're suddenly forgiven.
They're more mature than to be spiteful and yelling at each other constantly. Also Elena's actions during the island makes the ending make far more sense. She's enjoying the adventure, even if she wouldn't admit it. Which makes her actions at the end, when she buys the salvaging company and they plan on going on adventures legally.
Some well counter arguments against Crossing Eden.
No offense Crossing Eden but if you rarely see Action Movies, thats why you dont get it. If you dont understand why things happen in these flicks, go and watch more. Not everything has to be "realistic". "Oh no Drake just ran over some minority's food stand...someone put a stop to him!! We need to be taught a lesson not do do such things in our world!!" wtf..if something like that is what catches your attention, you are playing the game wrong.
Not only that but keeping comparing it to TLOU. Really?
Within the 1st chapter of the game, Joel's daughter dies. Its a totally different game/experience from the get go. ND did kind of fool everyone with "A Thief's End" title of the U4 but it would of been un-Uncharted like for the franchise to end with a MC's death be it Sully,Elena or Drake. Even at the end, the player wouldn't like to see Sam die because by looking at Drake's own reaction, you know he loves the dude dearly and it would have crushed Drake emotionally. Like that's something you wouldn't want to end the franchise at.
Also the end of TLOU is great in that its sorta open for interpretation. Since its a totally different tone, it has maybe a "more mature" ending. Did Joel screw humanity? What if Fireflies did find a cure but kept it for them only for the rest to rot and suffer? Would have been for nothing and Joel would have lost another daughter. Fuck, I'd do the same and try to save those who we really love in such a world as its fucked beyond repair.
All of the tension between them after that moment is non existent. I mean, she straight up offers to let Sam stay with them and says she'll take good care of Nathan. Like, he's basically good after that point because like the other UC games, the conversation ends with them joking with each other. A couple days beforehand she couldn't even stand him standing close.
ND included a piece of AC4 concept art in the story trailer of their game.
She offers to take in her brother-in-law and promised him that she'll take care of her husband. This truly is a step too far. Clearly, they have erased all sense of tension! People can't be multidimensional, caring about someone and joking with them yet still being upset or tense! That's just inhuman!
The ending was surprising to me in a good way as well
he didn't give up the life completely but he settled with a nice middle ground. I assumed they would be doing a full out "drake goes 9-5 and it just works out the end". Instead they comprised and found a way where both elena and drake got to live out their hobbies and still be legal and safe about it (hopefully lol)
For that reason alone this is so far my favorite ND story and game in general so far. It is a very nuanced and layered ending
But as another poster pointed out, it really wasn't an arch, you could have removed her from entire plot and it would not have made a difference. The whole 'walk away' thing is basically what Sully and Elena have been therefore the whole time.
I don't think you can remove her -- I mean, I get what you mean, in terms of her 'actions', but symbolically she is important. Nadine is a counterpoint. She's symbolic of the 'other option'. The one that many other characters didn't take and the crux of Nathan's crisis during UC4.
On the other hand, you've got Avery's & Tews greed spreading to paranoia, murder and death, you've got Sam chasing his lost years, you've got the old lady in the house who lost her family for treasure, you've got Burne's grandson who gave up his life, honor, and family for treasure, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
Nadine certainly lusted for wealth -- she is a merc afterall -- but she wasn't blinded by it.
One could argue Elena and Sully are that counterpoint, but they aren't, or, at least, not in the same way. They fall on the other side to begin with [Sully less so than Elena, but he's also got years of hindsight]... Elena never really struggles with being able to walk away. Nadine, however, represents greed by occupation in a way that Elena simply doesn't.
She offers to take in her brother-in-law and promised him that she'll take care of her husband. This truly is a step too far. Clearly, they have erased all sense of tension! People can't be multidimensional, caring about someone and joking with them yet still being upset or tense! That's just inhuman!
Let's be honest. Uncharted 4 should have had a rocks fall and killed both Nate and Sam and then the ending is at the funeral where Elena just drops a grenade on the grave and walks away emotionless.
D... Do you think people are that one dimensional? That showing that people care about each other still, means that they have no problems? Just because they show to still be comfortable and loving to each other, doesn't mean they're suddenly forgiven.
They're more mature than to be spiteful and yelling at each other constantly. Also Elena's actions during the island makes the ending make far more sense. She's enjoying the adventure, even if she wouldn't admit it. Which makes her actions at the end, when she buys the salvaging company and they plan on going on adventures legally.
would have had Elena not offer him a place to stay, refuse to promise to care of Drake, hop in her own cab, give them both the finger and leave. Then we would have gotten the sense of tension more clearly.
Let's be honest. Uncharted 4 should have had a rocks fall and killed both Nate and Sam and then the ending is at the funeral where Elena just drops a grenade on the grave and walks away emotionless.
All of the tension between them after that moment is non existent. I mean, she straight up offers to let Sam stay with them and says she'll take good care of Nathan. Like, he's basically good after that point because like the other UC games, the conversation ends with them joking with each other. A couple days beforehand she couldn't even stand him standing close.
I don't know, man. Most people's emotions are a roller coaster. One moment you can be pissed off, but after a brief cooldown it's not hard to start making jokes again. Have you never fought with a significant other before? The feeling I got watching Nathan and Elena work through issues felt so real, that it brought up emotions from my own relationships, past and present. I once went through a lengthy breakup after a long term relationship, and even though we were going through a tough time, we would still joke around and have fun on occasion.
This is just another example of Nathan being an "every-man".
I think it's pretty clear that they left the door open either for themselves or for someone else within the Sony studios. Going on "legal" adventures with Cassie and Papa and Mama Drake might be pretty fun.
The ending was surprising to me in a good way as well
he didn't give up the life completely but he settled with a nice middle ground. I assumed they would be doing a full out "drake goes 9-5 and it just works out the end". Instead they comprised and found a way where both elena and drake got to live out their hobbies and still be legal and safe about it (hopefully lol)
For that reason alone this is so far my favorite ND story and game in general so far. It is a very nuanced and layered ending
Completely agreed. I was getting a little nervous/anxiety when,
Cassie was trying to find her parents. They did a good job making it feel a little similar to Sarah in TLoU, but then, they sucker punch you again, lol.
