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[Eric WK]

Doesn't make your assessment of those elections any less inaccurate.
The Dems beat themselves by putting up weak candidates.

So weak he won the popular vote.

 

[ezrarh]

patently false.

Doesn't make your assessment of those elections any less inaccurate.
The Dems beat themselves by putting up weak candidates.

I don't disagree that Gore and Kerry weren't the strongest candidates. That doesn't mean my statement is wrong. The way we elect our president means you have to compromise for the guy most likely to win to advance some of your goals. Now before you even reply - I know you're going to fundamentally disagree and this has been argued many times before, so agree to disagree on this.

 

[Thamauturge]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

 

[RDreamer]

Manufactured debt limit crisis? Granted, it was turned into a PR opportunity for the Republicans, but I think it's a stretch to suggest the crisis itself was manufactured.

It absolutely was.

 

[Artemisia]

https://twitter.com/RepublicanTears/feed

Todd Kincannon ‏@ToddKincannon
The Democrat base depends on food stamps because they are lazy and cannot prioritize life goals. Patience is not in that skill set.

 

[Interfectum]

No he isin't.

Yes he is.

For this particular election if you vote 3rd party you are throwing your vote in the garbage. No one will care. All that matters is if Romney or Obama wins. That's all the media will cover because the stakes are so high right now. Your vote won't send a message as all it will do is help either side win depending on the state.

 

[dvolovets]

Is there a good stream for following election results coverage? I don't have cable, and I'm not a fan of the ABC/Yahoo team.

Also, obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZVmu6Rcvbw

 

[heliosRAzi]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

And what plan is that?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Voting third party for president is like waiting until the very end of the game to throw a hail mary... while you're down 40 to nothing. Sure, I guess you can say you tried... sort of. But, it was all completely worthless, and may even hurt your best interests (and the best interests of your fellow citizen) in the process. Be a responsible citizen. Vote pragmatically.

I am going to steal this.

 

[ascii42]

I don't disagree that Gore and Kerry weren't the strongest candidates. That doesn't mean my statement is wrong. The way we elect our president means you have to compromise for the guy most likely to win to advance some of your goals. Now before you even reply - I know you're going to fundamentally disagree and this has been argued many times before, so agree to disagree on this.

There's a difference between "throwing your vote away" and "your vote would be better served elsewhere"

 

[snacknuts]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

What plan?

 

[RoboPlato]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...-E-FB-SM-LIN-5pt-110612-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

This is really cool and useful.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Yes he is.

For this particular election if you vote 3rd party you are throwing your vote in the garbage. No one will care. All that matters is if Romney or Obama wins. That's all the media will cover because the stakes are so high right now. Your vote won't send a message as all it will do is help either side win depending on the state.

Your vote doesn't have to send a message, it's yours. You're throwing your vote in the garbage by voting for someone you don't truly support.

Voting third party for president is like waiting until the very end of the game to throw a hail mary... while you're down 40 to nothing. Sure, I guess you can say you tried... sort of. But, it was all completely worthless, and may even hurt your best interests (and the best interests of your fellow citizen) in the process. Be a responsible citizen. Vote pragmatically.

You can help someone's Fantasy stats.

 

[krypt0nian]

There's a difference between "throwing your vote away" and "your vote would be better served elsewhere"

In as far as a Scrabble word score, sure.

 

[eznark]

Voting third party for president is like waiting until the very end of the game to throw a hail mary... while you're down 40 to nothing. Sure, I guess you can say you tried... sort of. But, it was all completely worthless, and may even hurt your best interests (and the best interests of your fellow citizen) in the process. Be a responsible citizen. Vote pragmatically.

Maybe, but I don't see how anyone could stomach voting for one of the big ticket guys. They're both disgusting human beings who don't deserve my support.

 

[Jonm1010]

Your vote doesn't have to send a message, it's yours. You're throwing your vote in the garbage by voting for someone you don't truly support.

Only if you operate on a zero sum basis.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Manufactured debt limit crisis? Granted, it was turned into a PR opportunity for the Republicans, but I think it's a stretch to suggest the crisis itself was manufactured.

Possibility #1: The crisis was America reaching its debt ceiling
Manufactured? No, not really. People can/should be held accountable for policy decisions leading to it, but no one person had the ability to affect inertia and prevent it happening. Once it became an imminent issue, even if government were to shrink immensely, overnight, with no attempt to make a safe transition, it still would have hit the debt ceiling. So it was inevitable in a sense, and thus not manufactured.

Possibility #2: The crisis was America potentially not raising its debt ceiling
Manufactured? Yes, absolutely. Voting to raise the debt ceiling was a simple matter.

So, whether it's manufactured depends on what the crisis actually was. Was it a crisis of hitting the debt ceiling, or was it a crisis of not voting to raise it? Both of these have occurred before, but not the same number of times. How often has America had the crisis you're referring to?

 

[zomaha]

And what plan is that?

the "address the deficit by cutting taxes for everyone including the top 1% but not raising revenue" plan. mathematics says it doesn't add up, but who gives a shit what math says?

 

[Zerokku]

Well my vote is in, even if it doesn't mean much here in AZ. At least there were some decent propositions to vote on.

And I'm a little late to the party, but this is my prediction for today -

 

[1-D_FTW]

And what plan is that?

The same as the past plans. Only even less regulation this time.

If something fails, it's only because it wasn't far enough to the right. Set to rinse and repeat cycle.

EDIT: And I'm calling Florida for Obama. Just like in 08, there were very few Romny signs in my county (which is heavily republican). Previous cycles had Republican signs on every other lawn. Anectdotal as it may be, it's a good tea leaf for just how much enthusiasm is there.

 

[googleplex]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

And what plan is that?

Yeah, I'm interested in hearing the answer to that question also.

 

[Lathentar]

Did Ross Perot change anything?

He certainly swung the 1992 election in Bill Clinton's favor. Also, his party won governorship of Minnesota in 1998 with Jesse Ventura as their nominee. I'd say the reform party had a decent impact. However, infighting and lack of Perot's billions have collapsed the party. It'll take another billionaire to setup a third party that can compete in state/national elections. It's certainly possible. I'd love to see Romney win the PV but lose the Electoral College. Both parties getting "screwed" by that might cause changes.

 

[Kusagari]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

Romney has no plan beyond vague talking points.

 

[Interfectum]

Maybe, but I don't see how anyone could stomach voting for one of the big ticket guys. They're both disgusting human beings who don't deserve my support.

You are not just voting for the man, but voting for the people he will bring with him. Voting 3rd party in this election is a complete waste of time to be honest.

 

[TheNatural]

This. Plus the fact that we have primaries and we have down ticket races for a reason. If you want third parties to be strong help them in your town, then your county, then your state. Once enough states do this they'll have the ground game and infrastructure needed to possibly take on the national level. And in primaries you already have the ability to help put in people with differing ideals. Democrat and Republican can encompass quite a bit. Remember, Ron Paul was labeled a republican and was in the republican primary. They're not that strict.

Voting third party for president is like waiting until the very end of the game to throw a hail mary... while you're down 40 to nothing. Sure, I guess you can say you tried... sort of. But, it was all completely worthless, and may even hurt your best interests (and the best interests of your fellow citizen) in the process. Be a responsible citizen. Vote pragmatically.

The judging how other people should vote thing needs to stop.

I live in Kentucky. Heavy red. 90% of this country is heavy red or heavy blue with a very small amount of swing states. And even then? One vote isn't deciding shit. Even if you and 5,000 of your friends you got to vote that way went to vote in a swing state, IT likely isn't deciding anything either.

This 'wasted vote' shit is crap. A vote for Democrat, Republican, Green Party, Constitutional, or Libertarian is no more wasted than the other by a single person. Period.

 

[Flying Toaster]

Well my vote is in, even if it doesn't mean much here in AZ. At least there were some decent propositions to vote on.

And I'm a little late to the party, but this is my prediction for today -

Arizona's Sheriff race is interesting at least.

 

[Shambles]

Maybe, but I don't see how anyone could stomach voting for one of the big ticket guys. They're both disgusting human beings who don't deserve my support.

If you never want any change in the electoral system I'd suggest following his advice. If you can't have perfection you might as well bathe in the same shit cycle until the end of your life.

 

[krypt0nian]

Only if you operate on a zero sum basis.

Huh? I didn't see any other option when they tally up the winner. You may feel good, but if you end up putting someone that overall, pragmatically is a worse person for your beliefs into office, feel good gets you nowhere.

If you folks want a multiple party system, change the system. Voting for someone with no chance to win changed nothing.

 

[Zoibie]

Manufactured debt limit crisis? Granted, it was turned into a PR opportunity for the Republicans, but I think it's a stretch to suggest the crisis itself was manufactured.

It was only a crisis because the GOP decided to make it one. There hasn't been another instance of such partisanship over extending the debt ceiling.

 

[Evlar]

Voting third party for president is like waiting until the very end of the game to throw a hail mary... while you're down 40 to nothing. Sure, I guess you can say you tried... sort of. But, it was all completely worthless, and may even hurt your best interests (and the best interests of your fellow citizen) in the process. Be a responsible citizen. Vote pragmatically.

Politics isn't football and, if it were, I wouldn't be the metaphorical quarterback. As for "best interest", the theory behind representative democracy, as I understand it, is that is for me to decide which candidate I think serves the nation's best interest.

 

[Flying Toaster]

The judging how other people should vote thing needs to stop.

I live in Kentucky. Heavy red. 90% of this country is heavy red or heavy blue with a very small amount of swing states. And even then? One vote isn't deciding shit. Even if you and 5,000 of your friends you got to vote that way went to vote in a swing state, IT likely isn't deciding anytthing either.

This 'wasted vote' shit is crap. A vote for Democrat, Republican, Green Party, Constitutional, or Libertarian is no more wasted than the other by a single person. Period.

Thats cute, you keep telling yourself that.

 

[Vanillalite]

I will stop, I will stop at nothing. Say the right things when #electioneering. I trust I can rely on your vote. - Radiohead

 

[eznark]

You are not just voting for the man, but voting for the people he will bring with him. Voting 3rd party in this election is a complete waste of time to be honest.

My one vote for Johnson will have exactly as much impact as your one vote for Obama.

 

[Kusagari]

My one vote for Johnson will have exactly as much impact as your one vote for Obama.

Tell that to Florida in 2000.

 

[Shambles]

Huh? I didn't see any other option when they tally up the winner. You may feel good, but if you end up putting someone that overall, pragmatically is a worse person for your beliefs into office, feel good gets you nowhere.

If you folks want a multiple party system, change the system. Voting for someone with no chance to win changed nothing.

The problem with your stance is that on one hand you say voting third party won't change anything. And then on the other hand you act like voting for the main parties will make any more difference. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either vote for you who you think is best, or don't vote at all.

 

[Interfectum]

My one vote for Johnson will have exactly as much impact as your one vote for Obama.

In a state that is already assured a win either way, sure.

But in a swing state you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Possibility #1: The crisis was America reaching its debt ceiling
Manufactured? No, not really. People can/should be held accountable for policy decisions leading to it, but no one person had the ability to affect inertia and prevent it happening. Once it became an imminent issue, even if government were to shrink immensely, overnight, with no attempt to make a safe transition, it still would have hit the debt ceiling. So it was inevitable in a sense, and thus not manufactured.

Possibility #2: The crisis was America potentially not raising its debt ceiling
Manufactured? Yes, absolutely. Voting to raise the debt ceiling was a simple matter.

So, whether it's manufactured depends on what the crisis actually was. Was it a crisis of hitting the debt ceiling, or was it a crisis of not voting to raise it? Both of these have occurred before, but not the same number of times. How often has America had the crisis you're referring to?

The real crisis is #1, America reaching the ceiling. I agree that what ensued was completely manufactured. It's unfortunate that most of the discussion that resulted was about party politics than fixing the problem.

It was only a crisis because the GOP decided to make it one. There hasn't been another instance of such partisanship over extending the debt ceiling.

But there should ALWAYS be. Every time it happens.

 

[RDreamer]

Maybe, but I don't see how anyone could stomach voting for one of the big ticket guys. They're both disgusting human beings who don't deserve my support.

Look, voting for someone doesn't mean you support every single thing they do. It means it was the best choice to make given the choices. Part of being an adult and doing the adult thing is recognizing that you won't always be given your ideal choice. Sometimes yes the choice is between a giant douche and a turd sandwich as the kids like to say these days. But, fucking a, that's your choice. Be an adult and look through the issues and figure out which one would be a better choice for the country. Perhaps it means not thinking specifically about you. Maybe it means voting for someone else you know and an issue that means a lot to them. There are millions of people's healthcare hanging in the balance on this one election, for instance. Look through some specific issues and find those differences. They're there. Then vote on those, because that's the responsible thing to do. Whining that they don't answer everything you want, throwing your hands up in the air and giving up isn't the responsible thing. Sometimes life gives you a tough choice, and I think this tough choice is a responsibility you have in this society.

 

[eznark]

Tell that to Florida in 2000.

Votes for Gary Johnson were weighted differently in Florida in 2000?

But in a swing state you couldn't be more wrong.

My vote would be worth more than one vote in some states?! This seems like information people should know.

 

[Effect]

I have a lot of respect for Obama as a leader and a person, but I think that Romney's plan for the economy is better. That said, we wont enter an era of darkness if candidate A or B wins. I support Romney, but Obama will probably win.

What actual plan is that? Please explain it to us. Just a summary of some details would be good.

 

[Jonm1010]

Possibility #1: The crisis was America reaching its debt ceiling
Manufactured? No, not really. People can/should be held accountable for policy decisions leading to it, but no one person had the ability to affect inertia and prevent it happening. Once it became an imminent issue, even if government were to shrink immensely, overnight, with no attempt to make a safe transition, it still would have hit the debt ceiling. So it was inevitable in a sense, and thus not manufactured.

Possibility #2: The crisis was America potentially not raising its debt ceiling
Manufactured? Yes, absolutely. Voting to raise the debt ceiling was a simple matter.

So, whether it's manufactured depends on what the crisis actually was. Was it a crisis of hitting the debt ceiling, or was it a crisis of not voting to raise it? Both of these have occurred before, but not the same number of times. How often has America had the crisis you're referring to?

The debt ceiling was about us paying for the things we already authorized to buy. The republicans saying we don't want to pay for it was essentially them having purchased their toys on their credit cards and then when the bill comes saying we don't want to pay for our toys now and started whining over it.

It was 100% manufactured. It was a routine operation done without fuss countless times before and even a couple times since, but republicans saw a political opportunity to push their agenda at the expense and threat of our nations credit rating and they took it.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Manufactured debt limit crisis? Granted, it was turned into a PR opportunity for the Republicans, but I think it's a stretch to suggest the crisis itself was manufactured.

what would you call an intentional crisis besides manufactured?

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Fuck these people in general who are doing that.

+++

Vote your conscience.

 

[TheNatural]

Thats cute, you keep telling yourself that.

Thats cute, head to a 2nd grade math class to learn the difference between 1 and 1 million votes.

 

[Evlar]

Huh? I didn't see any other option when they tally up the winner. You may feel good, but if you end up putting someone that overall, pragmatically is a worse person for your beliefs into office, feel good gets you nowhere.

If you folks want a multiple party system, change the system. Voting for someone with no chance to win changed nothing.

Voting for anyone changed nothing. The marginal utility of a single vote for President in the state of Washington is virtually zero.

The hilarious thing is that you guys think YOU are making a meaningful difference by merely voting. Unless you are among the tiny minority that live in a swing state it's just not true.

 

[Zerokku]

Arizona's Sheriff race is interesting at least.

Yup. I think Sheriff is the only time you'd ever find my parents voting democrat. God I hope we get Arpaio out of here.

 

[Protein]

Just got word that my cousin and her husband voted Blue-bama with their demi-god Ohio votes.

+200 Obama.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

I will stop, I will stop at nothing. Say the right things when #electioneering. I trust I can rely on your vote. - Radiohead

Did you really just use a hashtag in the middle of a NeoGAF post?

 

[eznark]

Look, voting for someone doesn't mean you support every single thing they do. It means it was the best choice to make given the choices. Part of being an adult and doing the adult thing is recognizing that you won't always be given your ideal choice. Sometimes yes the choice is between a giant douche and a turd sandwich as the kids like to say these days. But, fucking a, that's your choice. Be an adult and look through the issues and figure out which one would be a better choice for the country. Perhaps it means not thinking specifically about you. Maybe it means voting for someone else you know and an issue that means a lot to them. There are millions of people's healthcare hanging in the balance on this one election, for instance. Look through some specific issues and find those differences. They're there. Then vote on those, because that's the responsible thing to do. Whining that they don't answer everything you want, throwing your hands up in the air and giving up isn't the responsible thing. Sometimes life gives you a tough choice, and I think this tough choice is a responsibility you have in this society.

That's exactly what I did. Instead of letting the people around me falsely limit my choices, I looked at every choice, considered my traditional write in vote (because fuck Ron Paul) and decided on Johnson.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Posted? PA voting machine refuses to accept Obama votes.

http://jezebel.com/5958108/oh-lovel...n-pennsylvania-isnt-accepting-votes-for-obama