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[MetalGuardian]

I've been planning on voting for Jill Stein for a few weeks now, but I'm reconsidering. I live in IL so it doesn't matter either way, but after seeing and talking with some conservatives (primarily on facebook) I'd like to officially be part of the Barry O camp, mainly out of principle against so many of the things that the extremist right wingers stand for. That seems like an immature reason to switch my vote, though.

I would vote Obama if not for policies like his drone strikes and some excessively pro-choice promises he made before being elected in 2008 (which he thankfully didn't act on). I just have a hard time getting over some of those things, so as much as I would like to vote for him I'm not sure that I can since a few outlier issues go against my conscience.

Leaving in a bit to go vote, so I better make up my mind fast!

 

[RDreamer]

Again, the crisis (meaning, the fiasco surround it): yes, manufactured. The fact that we are perpetually running up against the debt ceiling is a real (ongoing) crisis.

It isn't.

 

[diffusionx]

Third party votes don't matter in our system. This is not true of every system of course, but you go to vote with the system you have. Maybe if Jill Stein got ~20% of the vote like Perot, the issues she harped on would be co-opted by one of the major parties. That's not going to happen, she will get <1% of the vote and be forgotten tomorrow.

Manufactured debt limit crisis? Granted, it was turned into a PR opportunity for the Republicans, but I think it's a stretch to suggest the crisis itself was manufactured.

No... it was completely manufactured.

Again, the crisis (meaning, the fiasco surround it): yes, manufactured. The fact that we are perpetually running up against the debt ceiling is a real (ongoing) crisis.

The debt ceiling is manufactured too. If Congress thought we had too much debt they can cut spending. Congress has budget experts, they know how much will have to be borrowed every time the budget is approved. No other country has a debt ceiling AFAIK.

 

[Evlar]

I don't see anyone telling anyone else not to vote. I see some people telling others that they're are dumb for voting a certain way. That's just par for the course of political discussion.

Did you skip over this?

green/third party voters, why go out of your way to not matter?? just stay home. and stop bragging about how you just threw away your vote.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Literally, this is exactly my reasoning, though reversed. Probably voting for Johnson...Not sure yet.

Do it. I don't even agree with the guy, but you know Texas is going to Romney anyway. Use your vote to help get Johnson up to 5% so he can get that federal money and increase his and his party's presence on the national level.

 

[Jackben]

He's using logic by saying people are attnetion whoring, while I'm using simple 1st grade math to show that no one's single vote matters. Think about that one for a minute. I'm not the one being a keyboard warrior sitting in a thread on a videogame forum lecturing people on how they should vote.

Come on, son.

 

[FlashFlooder]

This only makes sense if both people are absolutely 100% exactly the same. They're not. There are huge differences. Vote for which one of the two would help the country the best. If you can't do this then I question how you get through life, since life presents two seemingly bad options all the fucking time. It's your job to discern which one is better and choose it, if not for you but for someone else or for society as a whole. As I said before MILLIONS of people's healthcare are riding on this election, along with quite a few other big issues. One of these two will be in office next. That is a fact. Do your part to help choose which one of the two.

I'm not a single issue voter, and both of the candidates have stances on different issues that I cannot support. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

I get through life by doing what I feel is right, which is exactly what I did in this case.

At any rate, you and I certainly disagree that there are huge differences between these candidates. At least, not on the issues that matter to me.

 

[krypt0nian]

Why would you assume people that don't vote for the dem or rep would vote at all?

For all intents and purposes, they aren't voting now.

Voting third party nationally is like going hunting in woods full of deer, and moose to feed your family, but you're hunting nonexistent unicorns because you think they might taste better.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Man I'm feeling good about this. I can feel repub seething and hatred in the air. Yes GA Teabaggers, give more angered looks.

 

[BillRiccio]

+1 Obama in Ohio

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Not being controled by a two party system. Knowing that in the grand scheme of "usefulness" your vote probably wont matter.

Voting for the person you believe in inspite of all the other bull shit, admirable. A person of conviction.

I guess you could argue that's noble, but that's different from brave.

You called a poster a coward, when courage doesn't enter into it at all. Unless, of course, you've been putting yourself out there yourself, either running for local offices as a third-party candidate or at least actively volunteering and supporting a campaign for one. Which, if you are, good for you!

But there's nothing courageous about going into a voting booth and filling in the Libertarian / Green / Rent Is Too Damn High circle. Or anyone, for that matter. That's the easiest, safest, least impressive part of the whole process.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

+1 Obama in Ohio

Your vote is more valuable than gold.

 

[eznark]

For all intents and purposes, they aren't voting now.

Voting third party nationally is like going hunting in woods full of deer, and moose to feed your family, but you're hunting nonexistent unicorns because you think they might taste better.

What if the deer hate the Other and the moose murder Americans? I'll take mythical Unicorn meat!

 

[SteveWinwood]

Did you skip over this?

Must have. I just ignore dummies.

 

[Eric WK]

nate has florida now for obama?

Barely. Polling shows a statistical dead heat.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Third party votes don't matter in our system. This is not true of every system of course, but you go to vote with the system you have.

Maybe people just like voting to change the system.

 

[maquiladora]

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

 

[The Technomancer]

Maybe people just like voting to change the system.

Voting for a third party candidate for president doesn't change the system in any meaningful way. There are other tools to have an actual impact.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

DEAD HEAT

 

[Kusagari]

Third Parties are worthless and will never amount to anything until they try to accomplish things on the local level first before blowing their load on the presidency. You voting for Jill Stein will accomplish nothing, it will further nothing. No matter what you want to tell yourself. All it will do is make you feel good for a split second while possibly allowing a candidate who you disagree with far more than the other to get into office.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Barely. Polling shows a statistical dead heat.

Wolf just got an erection.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

nope

 

[FlashFlooder]

It isn't.

Man, these candidates must be really misguided then... because they're making a huge issue about the economy and government spending.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I've been planning on voting for Jill Stein for a few weeks now, but I'm reconsidering. I live in IL so it doesn't matter either way, but after seeing and talking with some conservatives (primarily on facebook) I'd like to officially be part of the Barry O camp, mainly out of principle against so many of the things that the extremist right wingers stand for. That seems like an immature reason to switch my vote, though.

I would vote Obama if not for policies like his drone strikes and some excessively pro-choice promises he made before being elected in 2008 (which he thankfully didn't act on). I just have a hard time getting over some of those things, so as much as I would like to vote for him I'm not sure that I can since a few outlier issues go against my conscience.

Leaving in a bit to go vote, so I better make up my mind fast!

Skip the coffee on the way to vote and donate what you would have spent on one to interest groups that represent the issues you feel strongly on.

For drone strikes, your best friends in interest groups would probably be the ACLU and EFF. Doctors Without Borders and the International Committee of the Red Cross would be good choices for trying to help reduce the harm drone strikes can cause as well. Even a $10 donation offers more real-world change that the intellectual exercise of voting Green (or even your portion of the match funds they'd get if they got 5%, which they won't).

As far as who you vote for? Your choice. Vote Green, vote Democratic, hell vote Republican. As you mention, in Illinois it won't matter. I live in another country so it's not my business who you vote for. Personally my tendency would be to vote within the rules of the system (in the US, this means voting for a major-party candidate) and try to change the rules of the system from outside. Make sense?

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

It's the closest race in 7,000 years.

It's literally going to be an exact tie. It's going to come down to a coin toss.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Voting for a third party candidate for president doesn't change the system in any meaningful way. There are other tools to have an actual impact.

More important than practicing democracy and voting for the president? Do tell.

 

[Hitokage]

Nate Silver may win tonight, but today Wolf Blitzer wins.

 

[eznark]

Maybe people just like voting to change the system.

Or like exercising their right to vote but retch at the notion of voting for Obama/Romney.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

No.

 

[Jackben]

Closest race in 80 years? Did I hear that right?

Closest race in 4 years!

 

[Eric WK]

Wolf just got an erection.

Drink every time someone says "too close to call."

 

[Jonm1010]

He's using logic by saying people are attnetion whoring, while I'm using simple 1st grade math to show that no one's single vote matters. Think about that one for a minute. I'm not the one being a keyboard warrior sitting in a thread on a videogame forum lecturing people on how they should vote.

No you are the guy on a videogame forum acting high and mighty using broken logic and ad hominem attacks thinking he's witty and smart.

The fact is, as a matter of degrees, your vote is more important voting one of the two guys who actually do have a chance over the guys who have zero statistical chance. True, the level of meaning, especially in a majority of states - especially if everyone else is going to ignore the premise that their vote is largely significantly unimportant - is pretty small. But it's still greater then a third party and most of the rational used for supporting that third party is weak sauce. If it makes you feel good fine, if you think voting third party once every four years will shift the actions of anyone in elected office or page the way for a new party you're Pretty ignorant.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Nate Silver may win tonight, but today Wolf Blitzer wins.

Please tell me they're doing holograms again. I refuse to watch CNN so I'll have to rely on reports.

 

[bjb]

The salt in here towards voting 3rd party is delicious.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Closest race in 4 years!

closest race in 2 years maybe, actually no, probably not even that.

 

[Ri'Orius]

Do it. I don't even agree with the guy, but you know Texas is going to Romney anyway. Use your vote to help get Johnson up to 5% so he can get that federal money and increase his and his party's presence on the national level.

I strongly considered voting for Johnson just because he's the closest third party to 5%, but I just couldn't bear it. Yeah, Jill Stein has her own craziness (infinite government jobs to end unemployment, wtf?), but I'd rather throw my weight on the far-left than the far-right.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Third Parties are worthless and will never amount to anything until they try to accomplish things on the local level first before blowing their load on the presidency. You voting for Jill Stein will accomplish nothing, it will further nothing. No matter what you want to tell yourself. All it will do is make you feel good for a split second while possibly allowing a candidate who you disagree with far more than the other to get into office.

You don't think they are going for local positions?

Like I said earlier, if I were in a swing state, I would vote for Obama, but since Texas isn't going to be in play for at least another two election cycles, I'm going to give my vote to the Green party. It wasn't just for president.

 

[Tex117]

I guess you could argue that's noble, but that's different from brave.

You called a poster a coward, when courage doesn't enter into it at all. Unless, of course, you've been putting yourself out there yourself, either running for local offices as a third-party candidate or at least actively volunteering and supporting a campaign for one. Which, if you are, good for you!

But there's nothing courageous about going into a voting booth and filling in the Libertarian / Green / Rent Is Too Damn High circle. Or anyone, for that matter. That's the easiest, least impressive part of the whole process.

Its more than noble (but probably less than "brave.")

Well, its corageous in the swing states. Voting conviction and not party is in fact brave IMO.

 

[Hitokage]

More important than practicing democracy and voting for the president? Do tell.

There is actually more to democracy than voting, much more. After all, the names on your ballot don't just get picked from thin air and the jobs they will perform continue to be subject to public input.

 

[The Technomancer]

More important than practicing democracy and voting for the president? Do tell.

...what? Are you disputing that there are more effective ways to support a third party than voting in the present context in the presidential election?

 

[RDreamer]

Man, these candidates must be really misguided then... because they're making a huge issue about the economy and government spending.

On the government spending, they both absolutely are

 

[kingkitty]

+1 Jill Stein in Ohio, come at me bro.

 

[Kingbrave]

I don't see anyone telling anyone else not to vote. I see some people telling others that they're are dumb for voting a certain way. That's just par for the course of political discussion.

How is this not the same thing? Shouldn't get on people just because they vote a different way. At least they vote.

 

[Tex117]

Do it. I don't even agree with the guy, but you know Texas is going to Romney anyway. Use your vote to help get Johnson up to 5% so he can get that federal money and increase his and his party's presence on the national level.

Exactly my thought. However, I want the "Libertarians" (sp) to take the tea party approach and get folded into the Republican Party and actually change their platform on almost all (if not all) social issues.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Statistically speaking, voting for a third party candidate is no different than not voting at all.

It's removing a vote from whichever of the two candidates with a chance of winning you would have otherwise voted for.

Statistically speaking, voting for anyone is no different than not voting at all. Obama really doesn't give a shit if he has 69,499,428 or 69,499,427 votes.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's going to be a 269-269 tie with a complete popular tie and Wolf Blitzer will grow his eight arms and seven heads and begin chanting the Forever Hymn as the moon turns to blood

 

[Interfectum]

You don't think they are going for local positions?

Like I said earlier, if I were in a swing state, I would vote for Obama, but since Texas isn't going to be in play for at least another two election cycles, I'm going to give my vote to the Green party. It wasn't just for president.

I think this is a perfectly acceptable answer.

In swing states go for the lesser of two evils for President, vote 3rd party locally. In other states vote full 3rd party to your heart's content.

 

[TheNatural]

No you are the guy on a videogame forum acting high and mighty using broken logic and ad hominem attacks thinking he's witty and smart.

The fact is, as a matter of degrees, your vote is more important voting one of the two guys who actually do have a chance over the guys who have zero statistical chance. True, the level of meaning, especially in a majority of states - especially if everyone else is going to ignore the premise that their vote is largely significantly unimportant - is pretty small. But it's still greater then a third party and most of the rational used for supporting that third party is weak sauce. If it makes you feel good fine, if you think voting third party once every four years will shift the actions of anyone in elected office or page the way for a new party you're Pretty ignorant.

Which is more important, your vote being a bigger percentage of a campaigns total votes? Where in the future it could garner them more support to become a third party power and maybe one day garner enough votes to at least get them in the debate like Ross Perot.

Or just voting for one of the two parties where you're a smaller percentage of their total, and your one vote doesn't matter, period.

And you're just ignorant period. I'm not on here lecturing people on which way to vote. If it makes YOU feel good sitting on a message board trying to tell people what to do, maybe you should get a life.

 

[RDreamer]

Maybe people just like voting to change the system.

Voting 3rd party doesn't change the fact that we have a first past the post system

 

[FlashFlooder]

On the government spending, they both absolutely are

Bernanke, is that you?

 

[diffusionx]

Maybe people just like voting to change the system.

The system won't change by voting for a third party. The system changes by holding people accountable and advocating for your position.

I'll use one example: gay rights. The gay rights movement didn't go look for a pro-gay rights third party president in 1970, vote for him/her, and sit back. They actually went out there and did the hard work of building support and winning people over to their position. This took decades.

I'll use another example: the rise of the right wing movement conservatives. Look at the history of the right from 1964 until today. People didn't look for third party heroes, they voted for Republicans and held them accountable up and down the ticket.