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[The Artful Dodger]

It's kind of lame to see the more nuanced Thenns of the books being replaced with a group of cannibals who seem to exist mostly as TV villains. I think the show has done a pretty poor job in general of making sense of the wildlings, and that's rather unfortunate.

I kinda agree. I felt like the merry adventures of Jon and the Free Folk in Season 3 were actually pretty good, because it showed that the wildlings aren't just barbarians that kill each other over nothing. I am sad they have folded the Thenns into being cannibals, and would've preferred if they would've used another name for the cannibalistic tribe, particularly because Jon DOES mention the actually cannibalistic ice river clans when he talks about Mance Rayder's army of wildlings.

I kinda like that they did the Thenns. Not necessarily for their portrayal but it highlights the difference between Tormund and Mance versus some of the more savage Wildlings. Although, I do agree they could have just as easily changed the name of the tribe and made them cannibalistic and had the same effect.

 

[Crisco]

Daario recast looks like a dud, but an excellent opener otherwise.

 

[Red Arremer]

I kinda like that they did the Thenns. Not necessarily for their portrayal but it highlights the difference between Tormund and Mance versus some of the more savage Wildlings. Although, I do agree they could have just as easily changed the name of the tribe and made them cannibalistic and had the same effect.

Oh I agree, I like the difference. That after we learned in Season 3 that the wildlings are just people that want to survive like everyone else, we now learn that there actually ARE the savages that the people south of the Wall often talk about. That these tales are actually TRUE, to an extent. I don't like the choice of name, though - Ice-river clans would've done the job just as well, and they are the cannibals in the books.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Show Tormund still sucks. HAR!

 

[Cornballer]

- NY Mag: Game of Thrones’ Pedro Pascal on Oberyn’s Bisexuality, Orgies in Westeros, and Boy Candy

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Show Tormund still sucks. HAR!

He's had his moments. I hope they just include more of him in the show. He hasn't really done much.

 

[Faddy]

Oh I agree, I like the difference. That after we learned in Season 3 that the wildlings are just people that want to survive like everyone else, we now learn that there actually ARE the savages that the people south of the Wall often talk about. That these tales are actually TRUE, to an extent. I don't like the choice of name, though - Ice-river clans would've done the job just as well, and they are the cannibals in the books.

Sometimes I think they make small changes like that just to remind bookthumpers that they are going to change stuff so learn to deal with it. Anyone who gets annoyed by such a minor change is going to be in a permanent rage later on when they really trim fat from books 4 and 5.

 

[Red Arremer]

Sometimes I think they make small changes like that just to remind bookthumpers that they are going to change stuff so learn to deal with it. Anyone who gets annoyed by such a minor change is going to be in a permanent rage later on when they really trim fat from books 4 and 5.

Oh I'm well aware of changes having to be done in order to make the show more coherent, or to save on having too many characters. I understand how TV/movie production works. But that's just a weird change to me. I don't think it matters much, regardless, and I don't consider myself a bookthumper by any stretch of the imagination. The books are the books and the show is the show, and I like both.

Doesn't mean I have to like every change they do.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm assuming they made the Thenns savage in order to make Tormund's transition more natural for viewers. You could tell he didn't approve of the Thenns' nonsense in the episode, and I'd imagine they'll have some conflict.

Next season Tormund will be Jon's right hand man, I think they're laying the foundation now.

 

[rexor0717]

The replacement Dario feels like a downgrade.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I'm assuming they made the Thenns savage in order to make Tormund's transition more natural for viewers. You could tell he didn't approve of the Thenns' nonsense in the episode, and I'd imagine they'll have some conflict.

Next season Tormund will be Jon's right hand man, I think they're laying the foundation now.

True king of the North.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Tormund was too much of a hard ass in season 3. He needed another scene or 2 where he was telling a funny story.

It is too much of a jump that he would have anything to do with jon snow going into the future

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Tormund was too much of a hard ass in season 3. He needed another scene or 2 where he was telling a funny story.

It is too much of a jump that he would have anything to do with jon snow going into the future

Yeah, we'll see where they take it, but from what they've done so far it's going to take quite a leap to get him working with Jon.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

Tormund was too much of a hard ass in season 3. He needed another scene or 2 where he was telling a funny story.

It is too much of a jump that he would have anything to do with jon snow going into the future

I hope this season really develops that instead of just "We used to be enemies, now we're pals cause...reasons..."

Edit: somebody sent me this from Reddit and I was laughing pretty hard:

 

[Cornballer]

HBO copies on their youtube channel. The promo is the same one as before:

- Promo for next week's episode
- Recap of Episode 1

 

[Altazor]

I laughed out loud when this happened. Also: Lady Olenna throwing away the necklace, Bronn and Tyrion's different replies regarding whores and "what the fuck's a Lommy".

 

[Exterminieren]

I actually really like Show!Tormund. Not necessarily the same as he is in the books, but he still comes across as a menacing-yet-reasonable presence with a fair bit of charisma, and he's only going to get more so with the Thenns serving as contrast.

They've set themselves up for a bit of difficulty with the Magnar down the line- I can't see Jon marrying anyone off to the character as portrayed yesterday.

 

[General_Frags]

I noticed in the intro just after showing the wall of is that Mereen is pretty close to Westeros with a smallish sea in between the 2 continents, it makes the whole "you must go east to go west" prophecy make sense but for all we know in the books there could be a bigger ocean or even a another continent between Mereen and Westeros.

I'm only going by the maps in the books and intro map on this and both could be incredibly inaccurate for all I know, by the way which way did Victarion go to slavers bay?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Odd, The Men of Nights watch seemed relaxed after what just Sam encountered during the previous season

They seem to be more concerned of the wildlings rather than The Others. Probably because the free folk are closer to the wall?

 

[Victory Red]

I noticed in the intro just after showing the wall of is that Mereen is pretty close to Westeros with a smallish sea in between the 2 continents, it makes the whole "you must go east to go west" prophecy make sense but for all we know in the books there could be a bigger ocean or even a another continent between Mereen and Westeros.

I'm only going by the maps in the books and intro map on this and both could be incredibly inaccurate for all I know, by the way which way did Victarion go to slavers bay?

Mereen is very far from Westeros

 

[Red Arremer]

I noticed in the intro just after showing the wall of is that Mereen is pretty close to Westeros with a smallish sea in between the 2 continents, it makes the whole "you must go east to go west" prophecy make sense but for all we know in the books there could be a bigger ocean or even a another continent between Mereen and Westeros.

I think you misremembered things. There's still a big chunk of land between Mereen and Westeros/the Narrow Sea. This map here is actually really good because it shows what's official and what's speculated (though the canon border has moved east a bit further to include Qarth and the coast of the Jade Sea by now):

 

[eot]

I don't think the Arya scenes quite live up to the books, but the Hound makes up for it. The actor completely nails the part and the script is great too.

 

[Iksenpets]

I actually really like Show!Tormund. Not necessarily the same as he is in the books, but he still comes across as a menacing-yet-reasonable presence with a fair bit of charisma, and he's only going to get more so with the Thenns serving as contrast.

They've set themselves up for a bit of difficulty with the Magnar down the line- I can't see Jon marrying anyone off to the character as portrayed yesterday.

It's his son she marries though, so they could always introduce the Thenn with a heart of gold. It's so hard to tell with some of these Dance plots because we really have no idea if the Karstark marriage plot is even anything significant yet. And if it is important, is it important that it be a Thenn, or could they sub in some other Wildling. Who knows?

 

[General_Frags]

I think you misremembered things. There's still a big chunk of land between Mereen and Westeros/the Narrow Sea. This map here is actually really good because it shows what's official and what's speculated (though the canon border has moved east a bit further to include Qarth and the coast of the Jade Sea by now):

I thought so too, thanks for the better map, its just that the camera panned left instead of right and very quickly arrived at Mereen, I guess someone needs to timelapse it so we get an idea of the rest of the map (in the show not for the books).

 

[Reyne]

Actually, that map is dated now that we have a wholly canon map of the know world as shown in The Land of Ice and Fire. No speculated parts.

Essos is just very elongated.

 

[Lautaro]

I think you misremembered things. There's still a big chunk of land between Mereen and Westeros/the Narrow Sea. This map here is actually really good because it shows what's official and what's speculated (though the canon border has moved east a bit further to include Qarth and the coast of the Jade Sea by now):

I don't see Yunkay there but I'm going to guess that is between Astapor and Meereen.

EDIT: nvm, new map.

 

[Red Arremer]

Rewatching the episode, the "what has happened until now" recap cuts Tywin's dialogue together so that he says "Tyrion will do as he's bid and marry Ser Loras." Made me crack up.

I thought so too, thanks for the better map, its just that the camera panned left instead of
right and very quickly arrived at Mereen, I guess someone needs to timelapse it so we get an idea of the rest of the map (in the show not for the books).

It goes from the Wall and kinda bends the route over the Shivering Sea and across the Dothraki Sea up into the Slaver's Bay. It's not a direct route.

Actually, that map is dated now that we have a wholly canon map of the know world as shown in The Land of Ice and Fire. No speculated parts.

Ah yes, thanks.

 

[eot]

I was looking forward to watching the 'what the flick' episode discussion, but they switched out all but one of the cast and it's gone from great to shit :|

 

[General_Frags]

Actually, that map is dated now that we have a wholly canon map of the know world as shown in The Land of Ice and Fire. No speculated parts.



Essos is just very elongated.

Wow, awesome.

But still it doesn't make sense why the directors edited the intro to pan left instead of right which they had done in previous seasons over to where Dany is in Essos, it makes definitely makes Mereen seem to be closer when in fact it's half way across the world instead, my only explanation is that they want to cut a few seconds of the intro.

 

[pr0cs]

my only explanation is that they want to cut a few seconds of the intro.

to be honest, the intro does feel rushed now so I wouldn't be surprised

 

[Abstruse Moose]

So why the hell don't the Westerosi just sail west to reach the shadow lands? Every time someone mentions sailing in this universe it's always going east across the narrow sea. Is there some kind of invisible wall blocking the west?

 

[Faddy]

The map is the biggest weakness of GRRM universe, it is simply far too big. The wall is meant to be 300 miles, working from that it becomes absurd how far people travel. She has practically walked half way around Earth! Everyone looks at the map and thinks it looks kind of like the UK, it is probably the size of the UK. The books take inspiration from medieval Britain so it is not a bad guess. However Westeros is about 100 times bigger in area than Britain.

The thing that makes this stupid is that the size of battles etc don't really relate to the size of a country but rather the logistics of feeding your armed men. Plus the fact that Westeros being the size of Western Europe only has about 5 major cities within it with large empty spaces in between.

 

[Red Arremer]

Plus the fact that Westeros being the size of Western Europe only has about 5 major cities within it with large empty spaces in between.

Not really. There's plenty of big and important cities, but not all of them are mentioned, or the locale for what happens. The major cities are just where shit goes down, and they're mostly the capitals of the respective regions.
Likening Europe to Westeros also is inherently flawed; Europe's history is covered in independent peoples and nations fighting each other, as opposed to noble families fighting each other within the borders of 1 realm.
But even then, back then, beyond capitals and trade centers, there have been hardly any important cities in Europe either, especially in nations that had a coherent history for several centuries, like Spain or France or England.

 

[dubq]

So why the hell don't the Westerosi just sail west to reach the shadow lands? Every time someone mentions sailing in this universe it's always going east across the narrow sea. Is there some kind of invisible wall blocking the west?

In this world? Probably.. lol

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

So why the hell don't the Westerosi just sail west to reach the shadow lands? Every time someone mentions sailing in this universe it's always going east across the narrow sea. Is there some kind of invisible wall blocking the west?

I would assume they probably don't realize the world is round. But yeah it's weird there's been no mention of what is west.

 

[VASPER]

The replacement Dario feels like a downgrade.

Yeah im not happy about it, great start otherwise.

 

[Drake]

How do you think they are going to play out the Shae angle in the show? From the books the impression I got was that despite how she acted towards Tyrion she never actually loved him. In the show it appears that she is actually in love with him. My guess is that they portray her as a lover scorned.

 

[CoolOff]

I would assume they probably don't realize the world is round. But yeah it's weird there's been no mention of what is west.

Or it's a sort of super-continent a la Pangea, so the sea westwards is just absurdly big. Wasn't there some speculation that Euron had sailed that way?

 

[General_Frags]

Or it's a sort of super-continent a la Pangea, so the sea westwards is just absurdly big. Wasn't there some speculation that Euron had sailed that way?

No he went as far as Asshai, but he claims to have crossed the Smoking Sea to Valyria.

 

[todd360]

Yeah im not happy about it, great start otherwise.

I want to give the guy a chance but it just doesn't seem like he fits the part as well as the other guy so far.

Its really jarring to see different people play somewhat important roles.

 

[KingHenrik30]

The replacement Dario feels like a downgrade.

He looks homeless. Daario was always supposed to be a flashy rouge.

 

[The Artful Dodger]

I hope a few episodes in, people will sway over to team Sonny/Daario as oppose to team Gaptooth/Daario.


Again, I like the actor and thought those two scenes with him were quite good.

I do understand how recasting is jarring though.

 

[KingHenrik30]

How do you think they are going to play out the Shae angle in the show? From the books the impression I got was that despite how she acted towards Tyrion she never actually loved him. In the show it appears that she is actually in love with him. My guess is that they portray her as a lover scorned.

I think that's the way it's gonna be. As I said earlier, in the book she is a whore through and through. Show Shae has been fleshed out and sympathized.

 

[cdkee]

He looks homeless. Daario was always supposed to be a flashy rouge.

He's handsome, but I wish they'd at least have dyed his beard a dark blue or purple, or something. Don't need the fork though.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I might have rewound the end of that cold open into the opening credits theme 5 or 10 times today. SO good.

 

[Cornballer]

- The New Yorker: A New Kind of Woman on “Game of Thrones”?
- Variety: ‘Game of Thrones’ Piracy for Season 4 Premiere Reaches Record Levels
- Warming Glow: The Internet’s Funniest Reactions To The ‘Game Of Thrones’ Season 4 Premiere (memes and whatnot)

 

[Fuzzy]

No ratings numbers yet?

 

[Steelyuhas]

No ratings numbers yet?

Tomorrow

EDIT: HBO typically releases numbers Tuesday mornings, right?

 

[Cornballer]

No ratings numbers yet?

Nope. They're a little later than I expected.

EDIT:

Tomorrow

Didn't the premiere numbers get an early release on Monday last year? I can't remember if that's the case. Sounds like they're going to be big. Normally, they're released on Tuesday.

EDIT2: Yup, they released the premiere ratings on Monday last year.

 

[Mondy]

I laughed out loud when this happened. Also: Lady Olenna throwing away the necklace, Bronn and Tyrion's different replies regarding whores and "what the fuck's a Lommy".

That is a brilliant reaction gif.