Emerson
May contain jokes =>
What's the point of debating something like this when you're objectively wrong by looking at the preview for the next episode?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
What's the point of debating something like this when you're objectively wrong by looking at the preview for the next episode?
Did you not watch the preview?
bodyofanamerican
Member
eh, sorry to backseat mod.
Some folks may not have watched/not want to know about what's in the preview.
Some folks may not have watched/not want to know about what's in the preview.
Fancy Clown
Member
I mostly liked the episode, but the Ygritte death scene was hammy as hell. So bad. She should have dropped dead after the kid shot her at least, we didn't need one last teary eyed "you know nooothing Jon Snaow" as they embrace on the fucking battlefield.
Also not sure I like that both Pyp and Grenn both getting killed. That leaves the likeable Wall side characters down to Ed and Maester Aemon.
The action was great though, if not quite as satisfyingly gory as the Blackwater fight. Marshall really has a handle on the sweeping action, and there was a brilliant one take that covered a lot of the carnage really well.
I assumed they didn't end with Stannis saving the day because that would have been too similar to blackwater bay where the battle is won via deus ex machina.
Lots of cool moments though:
-Giants and mammoth looked awesome
-Giant fucking launching that dude with the arrow was amazing
-Thorne was a badass for once, and his fight with Tormund was awesome
-Dudes getting stabbed every which way
-Then getting a hammer to the skull
Overall it was about as good as I could ask for, despite some missteps. Not as good of a 'big ol battle' episode as Blackwater, but still pretty damn cool.
Also not sure I like that both Pyp and Grenn both getting killed. That leaves the likeable Wall side characters down to Ed and Maester Aemon.
The action was great though, if not quite as satisfyingly gory as the Blackwater fight. Marshall really has a handle on the sweeping action, and there was a brilliant one take that covered a lot of the carnage really well.
I assumed they didn't end with Stannis saving the day because that would have been too similar to blackwater bay where the battle is won via deus ex machina.
Lots of cool moments though:
-Giants and mammoth looked awesome
-Giant fucking launching that dude with the arrow was amazing
-Thorne was a badass for once, and his fight with Tormund was awesome
-Dudes getting stabbed every which way
-Then getting a hammer to the skull
Overall it was about as good as I could ask for, despite some missteps. Not as good of a 'big ol battle' episode as Blackwater, but still pretty damn cool.
Sectorseven
Member
No. I don't watch the previews.
The Artful Dodger
Member
I think he's significantly improved since the first season.
Mockingbird
Member
Thought the episode was a disappointment only because I've read the books. Was upset that Pyp and Grenn got killed.
The Artful Dodger
Member
I think if Stannis had appeared at the end it would've felt too much like the Helm's Deep fight and Blackwater.
This could've been better than Blackwater, easily, and the battle itself really was. I don't think there's anything out there on TV that could match the action scenes here, at least no until we get TWOW adapted. Phenomenal direction too, with a bonus to the amazing tracking shot.
Still, several portions had some pretty shitty decisions.
I get it, there's no Donal Noye, so they had to replace him with someone we know, but it didn't have to be both Grenn and Pyp. If they had to die, why waste 15-20 minutes with Sam/Gilly crap? They weren't even there.
Maester Aemon, a hundred year old man, right there with almost 4 minutes of screen time talking about the past, and they had him talk about women....ugh.
I won't even begin on pushing Stannis to the last episode in an already short episode that still managed to have bad filler scenes that took almost 15 min. People will completely forget about an already poorly written character when dozens of other shocking moments are shown in the same episode.
Still, several portions had some pretty shitty decisions.
I get it, there's no Donal Noye, so they had to replace him with someone we know, but it didn't have to be both Grenn and Pyp. If they had to die, why waste 15-20 minutes with Sam/Gilly crap? They weren't even there.
Maester Aemon, a hundred year old man, right there with almost 4 minutes of screen time talking about the past, and they had him talk about women....ugh.
I won't even begin on pushing Stannis to the last episode in an already short episode that still managed to have bad filler scenes that took almost 15 min. People will completely forget about an already poorly written character when dozens of other shocking moments are shown in the same episode.
Yes but there was more in the book like the "is this a proper castle?" part.
Yeah man, so stupid to do her death scene literally verbatim from the book.
Kittenwithbeer
Banned
Pretty disappointed as a book reader. I know they can't drag the fight on for so many episodes, but the way Ygritte's death was changed as well as Jon Snow being in fighting condition kinda bummed me out.
Really surprised that they didn't have the scene to force Jon to go talk to Mance. Instead we see Jon going all "I'm Jon Snow. I've gotta be the hero and go try to stop this on my own. We have no hope except for this, Sam."
I guess I'll just have to stick to the books
Really surprised that they didn't have the scene to force Jon to go talk to Mance. Instead we see Jon going all "I'm Jon Snow. I've gotta be the hero and go try to stop this on my own. We have no hope except for this, Sam."
I guess I'll just have to stick to the books
Fancy Clown
Member
They had to press super hard on the romance/love themes in the beginning of the episode so that Ygritte's shitty death scene would give people 'the feels'
Apparently some people in this thread are master thespians.
...I give up.
Fancy Clown
Member
I thought he found her dead after the battle? If it was in the books or not, it was still a bad scene.
Have you read the books bro?
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah. I guess I didn't remember it happening like that though. Just because it was in the book doesn't mean it was good.
Yeah, reading the comments saying that, and makes sense. Well that just makes next weeks even crazier.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I made a thing. Too soon?
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Nice.
PushTheButtonMax
Banned
This whole episode was top notch. Blackwater doesn't even compare, so many fantastic shots in this one.
Edit: Damn, I thought I would arrive to a thread raving about this episode. The fuck was I thinking.
Edit: Damn, I thought I would arrive to a thread raving about this episode. The fuck was I thinking.
It didn't happen exactly like that. Jon finds her after the battle is over and never sees who shot her (just knows it wasn't one of his arrows) and then has this conversation.
It was probably the best scene in the episode. Too bad you didn't like it ?
Supermanisdead
Member
this was the best episode of the season. that panorama fight scene WOW.
cj_iwakura
Member
Good to know... conversation did have more weight in the book, though.
Fancy Clown
Member
Ah, thanks. Even though a lot of the dialogue is the same, I feel it works a lot better on the page. I think it's more just the performances and the 'holding a dying friend on the battlefield in the middle of the battle' cliche that's more prevalent on the screen.
I stand by that it would be better if:
1) She died immediately after the arrow hit her
2) He finds her dead/dying after the battle
It would be less 'sastisfying', but I think it would be more emotionally effective by emphasizing that despite their feelings for each other they were both ultimately serving causes that would keep them apart, including denying them one last reunion.
That was a stupid idea as well. I think it would've been much stronger in an episode where love as a theme was completely absent right up until that moment (which could've been much better on its own). She should've died in silence at least, there's no excuse for another "you know nothing" before dying.
He could've told Sam about the previous kings beyond the wall and their wars, or even better: Bloodraven, a previous Lord Commander ffs, who's also about to become a vital character.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I like how Jon used the blood spitting technique he learned from that dagger guy
Colonel Nasty
Member
Of course there is. They might not be book readers they could have just wiki'd that shit then be surprised at how close their "guess" is.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Man the critics are going ham on this episode.
Fair game in my opinion. The show runners never invested much in the Wall story line to make us care.
Fair game in my opinion. The show runners never invested much in the Wall story line to make us care.
Fancy Clown
Member
That's okay, I didn't think it was the best scene. All the strongest moments I felt were on the directorial/technical side of things (like the beautiful tracking shot over the carnage), as the Wall doesn't feature nearly as interesting or fleshed out characters as its Blackwater counterpart. The show just hasn't given this plot-line enough attention for the emotional moments to ring true.
I made a thing. Too soon?
Hah! I'll miss her but NICE.
I loved it. ^_^
There are but it's fine as long as they don't actively spoil it for other people. Let those sad asses feel a little bit better from having their "predictions" be correct.
Basileus777
Member
Good episode, but I'm expecting something to get botched next week because of how rushed it will be. There's not going to be enough time to give everything the time it needs.
It's because the real important results of the battle were pushed into next week.
It's because the real important results of the battle were pushed into next week.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I feel like the stuff on the wall bores a lot of people because it's so far removed from everything else happening in the story. It's like it's operating in its own bubble. Yet at the same time the info learned from the wall can have such massive implications which only makes it seem kind of more ridiculous that it isn't being acknowledged for the most part and is still in that bubble.
I'm trying to make a point here but I'm too tired to articulate it properly. I'll just assume people see what I'm driving at.
I'm trying to make a point here but I'm too tired to articulate it properly. I'll just assume people see what I'm driving at.
This was always going to be the case, Blackwater was the culmination of the War of Five Kings with a group of major characters (Tyrion, Stannis, Cersei, Davos, Joffrey, The Hound, Bronn, Sansa) all playing a part.
Jon, Sam, the Night's Watch, and the Wildlings just don't compare in either the books or the show. The action scenes were well done, and exhilarating. If the emotional beats fell flat then I guess that depends on your attachment or interest to the characters.
- Status