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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO

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My guess is that there will be a LSH scene, but the "ice" finale will be the stannis ambush.

EDIT: nvm, i can't see LSH with no prosthetics that would be up to the TV show standards. I'm still certain that stannis ambush is the finale.
 

gutshot

Member
If they were going to reveal Lady Stoneheart, they would have done it last season when they spent all that time establishing the BWB and the whole resurrection thing. When the Red Wedding was fresh in viewers' minds. When they wouldn't have needed to sneak Michelle Fairley on set. When the finale desperately needed a shocking ending.

The fact that they skipped it then tells me it's been cut.
 

dubq

Member
That Emmy submission is troubling... No LSH would be so fucking sad :( It's the perfect note to end the season on.

edit: The no LSH evidence is here: http://imgur.com/ABjp0Mk

That's from the official Emmy ballot ( http://www.emmys.com/sites/default/files/Makeup-Hairstyling.pdf page 106 )

Unless they left it off.

That's not really evidence at all. They could've either held it back for spoilers or not bothered because it's not that complex. Were Beric's "prosthetics" ever submitted?
 

Kerned

Banned
If the LSH prosthetic is relatively simple, which it probably would be since it's basically just a nasty cut/scar, they might not bother mentioning it on an Emmy ballot. Especially if it's in an episode with truly impressive prosthetics. I'm sure those ballots don't require you to mention every single use of prosthetics in the episode, just the ones you think are strong enough to warrant Emmy consideration.
 

Szeth

Member
If they were going to reveal Lady Stoneheart, they would have done it last season when they spent all that time establishing the BWB and the whole resurrection thing. When the Red Wedding was fresh in viewers' minds. When they wouldn't have needed to sneak Michelle Fairley on set. When the finale desperately needed a shocking ending.

The fact that they skipped it then tells me it's been cut.

Great points. The only thing I'd argue is that if it really is outright cut and not just left for season 5 I feel like they would have said that and let Michelle Fairley know so she would be able to tell that to interviewers instead of the non answer thing she has been doing. Only thing for sure is that it's not gonna be this season imo
 

Yoda

Member
Not being submitted isn't evidence that it won't be there. I'd argue the fact that there are already going to be multiple shocking events in this episode they could easily bank the reveal for sometime in season 5.
 

Dysun

Member
If they were going to reveal Lady Stoneheart, they would have done it last season when they spent all that time establishing the BWB and the whole resurrection thing. When the Red Wedding was fresh in viewers' minds. When they wouldn't have needed to sneak Michelle Fairley on set. When the finale desperately needed a shocking ending.

The fact that they skipped it then tells me it's been cut.
I don't see the point of including Beric Dondarrion and the Brotherhood if that entire subplot would be dropped.
If it's not in this next episode, I still think it will come in Season 5.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
If they were going to reveal Lady Stoneheart, they would have done it last season when they spent all that time establishing the BWB and the whole resurrection thing. When the Red Wedding was fresh in viewers' minds. When they wouldn't have needed to sneak Michelle Fairley on set. When the finale desperately needed a shocking ending.

The fact that they skipped it then tells me it's been cut.

That was the early thought, to show it not long afterwards, perhaps introducing her coming back to life, rather than appearing alive already and hanging Freys.

But, they didn't, just like the books. The books, it's long enough past the RW, that it's a surprise, unless you manage to grasp the storyline through the tiny hints (Arya's Dream, which could be interpreted as a strange form of burial/goodbye to her mother, by getting her body out of the river. Also, you'd need to remind yourself about Beric's ability and the fact this all happens in the same region (Riverlands) so it could be feasible they came across her body.

Maybe there were other hints, that more in-depth readers can remember.

Putting it at the end of the following season has the same effect as the books. It's been long enough since the RW, that people have moved on/forgotten about her, then boom, blown minds.
 
You joke about Rickon, but I think a scene of him arriving at the Umbers and Umber swearing that he'll see a Stark in Winterfell again and setting out to meet with Manderly to begin rallying the Northern lords behind Bolton's back would probably be the most unambiguously pro-Stark scene they could have.

And if you are just a show watcher and know nothing about the books, you finally want to see these positive things for the protagonists on the show.

Because let's face it...Dany gonna Meereen next season too.
 

Famassu

Member
The election and Stannis casting a shadow on the whole thing, is a multi-episode type arc. Good for the 1st half of the next season. My guess is the last thing for the Wall this year, is "StannisStannisStannis!" with maybe a single scene beyond it, as a slight introduction between the 2 new camps (The Wall and Dragonstone)
I agree that this is the likeliest scenario. The only way they are gonnna do the Lord Commander election is if they just say fuck it and basically don't even have it & rush through the process without any of the build-up that was in the books. Kind of like how Robb was chosen as the King in just one scene. I think your scenario sounds the likeliest, but there's a small chance they could do it really quickly, like: Jon in MAnce's tent -> after a short talk, commotion outside -> Wildlings are slaughtered -> Stannis! Stannis! Stannis! -> Short scene between Jon & Stannis on the north side of the wall -> Jon with his NW buddies inside, celebrating their victory, someone comes up with the topic of them not having a Lord Commander and choosing the next Lord Commander -> everyone agrees they need a new one, after some murmur someone nominates Jon -> they all agree quickly /end of Jon Season 4.
 

dubq

Member
If they were going to reveal Lady Stoneheart, they would have done it last season when they spent all that time establishing the BWB and the whole resurrection thing. When the Red Wedding was fresh in viewers' minds. When they wouldn't have needed to sneak Michelle Fairley on set. When the finale desperately needed a shocking ending.
First off, the RW will always be fresh in people's minds. It's one of the huge things that everyone always talks about when they talk about this show. Second, I think doing LSH during that same season, essentially in the next episode would have undercut the entire shock of the RW and largely made it seem pointless to casual viewers. Having an entire season in between gives it much more gravitas, IMO.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
First off, the RW will always be fresh in people's minds. It's one of the huge things that everyone always talks about when they talk about this show. Second, I think doing LSH during that same season, essentially in the next episode would have undercut the entire shock of the RW and largely made it seem pointless to casual viewers. Having an entire season in between gives it much more gravitas, IMO.

Agreed.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
You joke about Rickon, but I think a scene of him arriving at the Umbers and Umber swearing that he'll see a Stark in Winterfell again and setting out to meet with Manderly to begin rallying the Northern lords behind Bolton's back would probably be the most unambiguously pro-Stark scene they could have.

The crazy thing is, where the hell is Umber? That is the guy who got his fingers bitten off by Grey Wind, right? Didn't he get captured by the Freys in the book, and he's been there ever since?

I know the show character/actor hasn't been seen since about the same time he got his fingers bitten off. The actor (Clive Mantell) wasn't available for the 2nd season, and sometime around that time, he got into some sort of altercation where he got jumped, and had part of his ear bitten off.
 

dubq

Member
The crazy thing is, where the hell is Umber? That is the guy who got his fingers bitten off by Grey Wind, right? Didn't he get captured by the Freys in the book, and he's been there ever since?

I know the show character/actor hasn't been seen since about the same time he got his fingers bitten off. The actor (Clive Mantell) wasn't available for the 2nd season, and sometime around that time, he got into some sort of altercation where he got jumped, and had part of his ear bitten off.

Damn you, Brienne!
 

gutshot

Member
Yes, I know the books did it differently, but I still feel that it would have worked best on screen at the end of last season. When they didn't show it then, I thought it was likely cut. I began to have hope that they would include it at the end of this season instead, but the lack of filming leaks, no sort of foreshadowing in this season and now no mention of it in the Emmy submission has more or less convinced me it's not happening.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
I agree that this is the likeliest scenario. The only way they are gonnna do the Lord Commander election is if they just say fuck it and basically don't even have it & rush through the process without any of the build-up that was in the books. Kind of like how Robb was chosen as the King in just one scene. I think your scenario sounds the likeliest, but there's a small chance they could do it really quickly, like: Jon in MAnce's tent -> after a short talk, commotion outside -> Wildlings are slaughtered -> Stannis! Stannis! Stannis! -> Short scene between Jon & Stannis on the north side of the wall -> Jon with his NW buddies inside, celebrating their victory, someone comes up with the topic of them not having a Lord Commander and choosing the next Lord Commander -> everyone agrees they need a new one, after some murmur someone nominates Jon -> they all agree quickly /end of Jon Season 4.

There is no way that is all happening in ep 10. It felt like 30 minutes had gone by just reading all the events that would happen.
 

Chris R

Member
I just think it'd be excellent TV. A real shame if its cut.

Not only would it be excellent TV, it would get people pumped again. Say what you will, the Starks are the family viewers have been pulling for from the start. Death after death and misfortune after misfortune have started to turn people off to the series. LSH would be the glimmer of hope that would be bigger than the Red Wedding, and would launch the next season to even higher heights.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I hope the Stoneheart reveal is pushed back to next season. There's been absolutely no build up to it and I think it would come off as a cheap shock if they just dropped it on the audience at the end with no explanation.
 

Chris R

Member
I hope the Stoneheart reveal is pushed back to next season. There's been absolutely no build up to it and I think it would come off as a cheap shock if they just dropped it on the audience at the end with no explanation.

Well they could have Lady Mel play up the power of the Red God when they bring the Stannis stuff in, how she's felt a surge in his power or something.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Well they could have Lady Mel play up the power of the Red God when they bring the Stannis stuff in, how she's felt a surge in his power or something.

I think it would be better if they did that next season though. The finale is going to be jam packed as is.

Reintroduce the Brotherhood, have Jaime leave King's Landing, give Arya dreams of Nymeria (awakened by her training with the Faceless Men), and give Brienne and Pod something to do in the meantime, THEN reveal Stoneheart. "Sword!" can be the big season 5 finale moment for Brienne.
 

Kerned

Banned
I hope the Stoneheart reveal is pushed back to next season. There's been absolutely no build up to it and I think it would come off as a cheap shock if they just dropped it on the audience at the end with no explanation.

They could show Beric in the previously on, reestablish his resurrection skills, then change things slightly so that he doesn't die when he revives Cat. Then he would just be in the scene leading up to the reveal. That's probably enough explanation for a cliffhanger.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
I think it would be better if they did that next season though. The finale is going to be jam packed as is.

Reintroduce the Brotherhood, have Jaime leave King's Landing, give Arya dreams of Nymeria (awakened by her training with the Faceless Men), and give Brienne and Pod something to do in the meantime, THEN reveal Stoneheart. "Sword!" can be the big season 5 finale moment for Brienne.

By this point, LSH would have been in the river for months, making it pointless as there'd be little left to resurrect. Sounded like she was only in the river for a couple days at most in the book.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
By this point, LSH would have been in the river for months, making it pointless as there'd be little left to resurrect. Sounded like she was only in the river for a couple days at most in the book.

Right. Okay. Scrap the reintroduction of the Brotherhood and the Nymeria warging stuff. We can hear whispers of the Brotherhood's cruel new leader Lady Stoneheart and Breinne and Pod can investigate or something.

They could show Beric in the previously on, reestablish his resurrection skills, then change things slightly so that he doesn't die when he revives Cat. Then he would just be in the scene leading up to the reveal. That's probably enough explanation for a cliffhanger.

Not for me. :mad: I just feel like there needs to be a build up to her in the show, and not just in the "Previously On..." segment.
 

Lautaro

Member
S5 should start with the Brotherhood capturing a Frey and hanging him (they show LSH but not her face), then at the end of the episode they capture Brienne and Pod and make the reveal.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Right. Okay. Scrap the reintroduction of the Brotherhood and the Nymeria warging stuff. We can hear whispers of the Brotherhood's cruel new leader Lady Stoneheart and Breinne and Pod can investigate or something.



Not for me. :mad: I just feel like there needs to be a build up to her in the show, and not just in the "Previously On..." segment.

yeah, any reintroduction to the BWB would have to come with some sort of "new boss" mention. Nymeria is too far past to work, except as a flashback/offscreen callback to a dream not shown.

Downside of TV shows. Look at the Jon Aryyn/Lysa stuff. Absolutely no build up, outside of the Previously On.

Lautaro's suggestion could also work, but I still prefer the season cliffhanger appearance.
 

Lautaro

Member
No, S4 ending or bust. Would be such a massive miss by the show runners.

I don't see why. Advancing material from the 4th/5th books is not an obligation for them.

Besides people will be already mindblown by the Tyrion scenes.

It would be cool to have LSH now but they need to keep some interesting content for next season.
 
Actually...this would be a cool ending too:
http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/27sa4b/spoilers_adwd_how_the_children_might_end/

So, I was listening to the just released soundtrack, when I thought of how some of the music might be tied to the last scene (namely "The Children" and "Oathkeeper").

This is what I could see happening:

The last scene involves Bran meeting Bloodraven and Leaf, after escaping the Wights. Then, when he enters Weirwood.net, we get an uninterrupted long take (which would explain the announced expensive visual effects shot).

We follow Bran's Weirwood pov, flying out of the cave to the Wall and see Jon, staring North, dealing with his new predicament.

We zoom out and move east, past a small stretch of water and lower onto an island. There, we see Rickon and Osha (eating people? This would explain why Osha has been rumored to be in the last episode).

We continue, through the North to the Eyrie, we see Sansa, leaving the castle, looking down at her journey ahead. We fly past her, to the sea. We see a ship looming in the distance. When we get close, we see Arya, standing on the deck, looking out ahead, wherever she is going.

Then, we return to the mainland. Past the Vale, to the Riverlands. The camera slowly drops down into a murky environment. Three frey soldiers hang from trees, a fourth is on his knees. The camera pans around, and reveals: The Brotherhood without Banners. A hooded figure approaches; "She don't speak, but she remembers". The hood lowers, there, we encounter what is left of the mother of all "The Children" we just saw. Cut to black.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
That's a pretty great ending. Gives a last look at the Starks for the season, allows for an ultra quick LSH reveal, though it'd make people even more confused, over a by the book LSH reveal.

Hell, just having a bunch of aerial shots of the various locations in the world would be sweet.
 

Brakke

Banned
Y'all keep saying "Lady Stoneheart reveal". But like, there's no -veal to re-; we don't have some cloaked or mysterious force stalking the Crownlands. We haven't seen Dondarion in ages.
 

Moff

Member
If there is no Stoneheart next week how do they end the episode?

God's forbid they end it with Dany again! O_O
thats my bet actually

on the other hand it might be a white walker ending, I just have a hunch, we had 2 dragon endings and 1 white walker ending, what if they try to make that a habit? ice and fire? maybe we'll see the"nights king" again, just a guess, not evidence at all.
 
The more I think about it, the more I realize Sunday's episodes was one of my all time favorites from the series.

For one, I just really liked it focusing on one plot line for the entire episode. I know there is so much content they have to cover that they can't do that often. But when they do, it's so great. Not having to constantly switch gears between such different plot lines let's you really focus on the characters at hand.

And I think it did such a great job at showing the awful situation the Night's Watch in, as well as how important they are. That was always one of my favorite themes in the books: how the kingdoms to the south fight, completely oblivious to the fact that their most dangerous enemy is to the North. Where they are defended by a small crew composed almost entirely of criminals.

Which was why Stannis showing up was so awesome. Somebody FINALLY caring enough to come to the aid of the Night's Watch.

Unfortunately, the Wildlings are far from their most dangerous enemy. =(

I hope they drive home the point that Mance really just wanted safety for his people from the Others. And that they're certainly not all savages like the Thenns. Mance has a sympathetic position, which shows the dilemma Jon faces after he becomes LC.
 
Unless the argument is 'Season 4 is supposed to cap book 3 and Stoneheart is supposed to be there" I don't see why it can't wait. I think too many people in the thread are getting a case of the sposdas

At most I hope they show Thoros and Beric finding a body we don't see. Hmmm, about that point, are we too far to show them finding her and Beric dying? I don't think this show has ever cut back in time, even a little bit so far. They sure aren't going to say '2 weeks ago...' and THEN show the set-up
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
I can't wait until the Battle of Meereen focused episode just based on what we've already read in the sample chapters after this week's episode. It's gonna be so good.
 

someday

Banned

That would be an amazing ending. I really just think the season needs to end with LSH. The timing seems about right for what it was in the books and ending the season on her would be a shocker, especially considering the long wait for next season. Starting season 5 with her doesn't really help because it's not like she shows up all the time in the books even after we know she exists.
 

Kerned

Banned
Unless the argument is 'Season 4 is supposed to cap book 3 and Stoneheart is supposed to be there" I don't see why it can't wait. I think too many people in the thread are getting a case of the sposdas

At most I hope they show Thoros and Beric finding a body we don't see. Hmmm, about that point, are we too far to show them finding her and Beric dying? I don't think this show has ever cut back in time, even a little bit so far. They sure aren't going to say '2 weeks ago...' and THEN show the set-up

Show them finding a body now? She'd have been in the river for months. There wouldn't be much to find.

edit: I think I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying they should find her now in the present timeline, but perhaps you were suggesting a flashback.
 
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