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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO

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Famassu

Member
I think that's where they're going anyways. There's no way GRRM will be able to write the next few books in time, and they're not going to stop and wait. Might as well cut their losses and start building their own story. Maybe we can get a remake that fully follows the books in a few decades :/
They can't really go too much out of the books' way anymore. They are clearly following the major storylines until at least TWOW. The bBoltons are in Winterfell and Stannis at the Wall, Martells are entering the game and pissed off about the Lannisters, Dany's storyline seems like it's building up to Battle of Meereen etc., none of which will get their resolutions until TWOW.

TWOW will probably be released next year, that could leave Martin three years to finish ADOS before we get too much spoilers about its events, assuming they go for at least 8 seasons and don't have too much ADOS stuff in the seventh season. And if Martin has been writing at least a little bit of ADOS concurrently with TWOW, then three years isn't completely impossible a timeframe to release ADOS in, since TWOW might be an absolute bloodbath in regards to POV and other important charcters dying while also closing & connecting lots of storylines in other ways, possibly meaning its a bit easier to write the rest of the story since there are less characters to juggle between and presumably fewer wholly separate storylines to try to take forward simultaneously. Not to even mention he DOES have a good idea on how the story ends for all the characters, so you'd think writing the last few chapters for every character wouldn't be all that complex & timeconsuming anymore, once he's gotten all the characters where they need to be for their final acts.
 

Snake

Member
Has anyone been reading the westeros forums?

Apparently a guy named Foody has seen the episode because he works for a media company or something. He's said some... really crazy stuff, but the descriptions have been pretty detailed.

He claims
in the battle with Brienne and the Hound, Arya kills Podrick. Also Tysha is completely left out of the episode, undoing years of buildup, and Tyrion kills Shae with his bare hands instead of the Chekov's gun golden chains.

And you don't see Stannis or anyone else from his side. Just his army charging in, and that's it.

REALLY hope this stuff isn't true. If it is, GoT goes from decent adaptation to Hollywood-level rewrites of "lol boring book material"

Forum admin Ran a.k.a. Elio Garcia just posted this and deleted the guy's posts:
"Banned this individual.

From a very reliable source, I can say this guy is 100% trolling."
 
I don't like the sound of those 'spoilers', apart from the bit about Arya killing Podrick cos that sounds pretty nuts in a dark and fun kind of way. However I don't actually want it to happen, it's just a crazy idea.

The rest just sounds crap cos I want to see Stannis in a big way next week and the Tysha backstory is a big catalyst for Tyrion's action as I understand it. He has been quite angry at the first trial, but that seems to have tapered off a bit into resignation and I think he needs to get his blood boiling next week so he isn't just in escape mode when Jamie and Varys appear.

So for now I'm mostly thinking I HOPE those aren't true and I'm comforted by how they don't seem to make any sense with the thrust of the show as it's been going.

It would be hilarious if neither Stannis or Lady Stoneheart show up in a very boring kind of way.

EDIT:

Didn't see the confirmation. Phew!
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
Has anyone been reading the westeros forums?

Apparently a guy named Foody has seen the episode because he works for a media company or something. He's said some... really crazy stuff, but the descriptions have been pretty detailed.

No offense but that sounds horrible....
Don't like any of the changes and would kinda ruin this season for me (still think this is the best season yet)

*edit*
Great news this is all bs ;-)
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
I mean, I guess the audience is in for the long haul now, but you hope that long haul is worth the time watching it and won't cause the numbers to drop, and people to look back in the future and say, "that really fell apart in those last few years."

Be prepared to hear this opinion over the next year or two, as characters people actually care about are separated.
 
Listening to "You Are No Son of Mine" on the soundtrack, Tywin going bye-bye will be an awesome scene. I'm wondering if they'll link the Stoneheart reveal (if there is one) to that scene, since that depressing theme from "Dark Wings, Dark Words" pops up again.
 

A-V-B

Member
Listening to "You Are No Son of Mine" on the soundtrack, Tywin going bye-bye will be an awesome scene. I'm wondering if they'll link the Stoneheart reveal (if there is one) to that scene, since that depressing theme from "Dark Wings, Dark Words" pops up again.

Been listening. Around 3:50, listen to those strings crescendo. That'd be a nice moment for it.
 

El Daniel

Member
1755399246_paste_xlarge.jpeg
I like you
 

Joni

Member
It was to be expected that a difference would grow. I think the end result will be two endings that are vastly different despite following the same pattern.
 

Shahadan

Member

His example with the bard is typically something book readers/writers can't assimilate when adapting on TV/film. The presence of the bard is not necessary, it's just bonus depth suiting a book. On short screentime, the thing that matters is that Littlefinger kills Lysa and nothing else. Even if Littlefinger is exposed later, it's not difficult to accomodate.
And frankly in the books bard guy came back for no reason except to take the fall it was a bit out of place, even if I liked the idea a lot.
 

Moff

Member
the edings will be vastly different, but not even because of the changes we have seen so far.
simply because the books will probably finished 10 years later than the show. I can imagine that even main characters will have a different fate in the books if GRRM gets new ideas. it also depends on how detailed the outlines were he gave D&D, but there is no need he need to follow them if he changes his mind about whats best for his saga.

and I agree. Marillion is a bad example, even witthout a tongue he could still have served as the fall guy for lysa's death, but he was cut for other reasons.
 

Joni

Member
His example with the bard is typically something book readers/writers can't assimilate when adapting on TV/film. The presence of the bard is not necessary, it's just bonus depth suiting a book. On short screentime, the thing that matters is that Littlefinger kills Lysa and nothing else. Even if Littlefinger is exposed later, it's not difficult to accomodate. And frankly in the books bard guy came back for no reason except to take the fall it was a bit out of place, even if I liked the idea a lot.
Only in the books we still have this guy sitting somewhere that knows Littlefinger killed Lysa. He claims the singer is dead, but Robert still hears him singing. So we don't know how relevant he'll be in the end game.
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
Kinda wanted to catch up to all the preview chapters released for TWoW, found a nice site with summaries / transcripts for it;

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/03/how-much-winds-of-winter-is-out

as an extention; 12 major plot points to anticipate in TWoW;

http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate

Really can't wait for it, so much good stuff to look forward to (and I'm sure Martin will include another couple of 'throw-your-book-against-the-wall-and-curse-loudly' moments)
 

Iksenpets

Banned

His fixation on the Marillion thing is so weird. Not having him changed nothing. They reframed it as a suicide to exactly the same effect. He brings up Mago a lot, too, as though it's going to make things radically different when they just introduce some new Dothraki to take whatever his future role is instead.
 

Zabka

Member
Has anyone been reading the westeros forums?

Apparently a guy named Foody has seen the episode because he works for a media company or something. He's said some... really crazy stuff, but the descriptions have been pretty detailed.

He claims
in the battle with Brienne and the Hound, Arya kills Podrick. Also Tysha is completely left out of the episode, undoing years of buildup, and Tyrion kills Shae with his bare hands instead of the Chekov's gun golden chains.

And you don't see Stannis or anyone else from his side. Just his army charging in, and that's it.

REALLY hope this stuff isn't true. If it is, GoT goes from decent adaptation to Hollywood-level rewrites of "lol boring book material"
That's a pretty hilarious troll. He just took all of the hand-wringing about some popular book moments and spit it back at the people fretting about it.
 
His fixation on the Marillion thing is so weird. Not having him changed nothing. They reframed it as a suicide to exactly the same effect. He brings up Mago a lot, too, as though it's going to make things radically different when they just introduce some new Dothraki to take whatever his future role is instead.

The fact that the Lords of the Vale now know about Sansa is bound to change something in the future.
 
I really really hoped Brienne and Pod were done for the season. That close was perfect. They don't need anymore screen time next episode.

Besides they wouldn't kill Pod anyway, they might not be perfect in the minute to minute detail but they usually get the big things right.
Sunday will be fine. Have a little Believe.
 
I think people like Pod too much, but when has that stopped a character from being killed?

If episode 10 doesn't end with stoneheart saying "the starks send their regards" before promptly seeing someone killed then I'll be a tad disappointed.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
The only one I can see bitching is the writer of that article. What a horrible POS that person is. Martin just says the changes are accumulating and really not in all that negative a tone.
It's a joke...
The writer of that article hasn't read the books
I haven't read the books either
 
I think people like Pod too much, but when has that stopped a character from being killed?

If episode 10 doesn't end with stoneheart saying "the starks send their regards" before promptly seeing someone killed then I'll be a tad disappointed.

The issue is that people would HATE one fan favourite killing another though I am sure something as absurd as that would not happen.
 

Famassu

Member
It's a joke...
The writer of that article hasn't read the books
I haven't read the books either
Sorry, sounded like some rants I've read from people who really think Martin should do nothing but write the books 24/7 and should have no life or interaction with fans ever.
 
I really really hoped Brienne and Pod were done for the season. That close was perfect. They don't need anymore screen time next episode.

Besides they wouldn't kill Pod anyway, they might not be perfect in the minute to minute detail but they usually get the big things right.
Sunday will be fine. Have a little Believe.

Warning - Preview Talk

You can see Oathkeeper's hilt in the preview, Sandor and Brienne will fight, no doubt about it.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
The fact that the Lords of the Vale now know about Sansa is bound to change something in the future.

That's not because of the Marillion change though. That's a different change entirely. That's what's extra weird is that he has an actual change right next to it to talk about, but he goes for Marillion instead.

Warning - Preview Talk

You can see Oathkeeper's hilt in the preview, Sandor and Brienne will fight, no doubt about it.

Emmy submission info:
The Emmy submission for prosthetics also mentions a leg with a compound fracture for Sandor. I really doubt Arya has the strength to shatter Sandor's leg, so someone is definitely fighting him.
 
I went on this rant in the books thread and I still feel very pationately about it.

George RR Martin's life long masterpiece is going to be ruined because of a TV show.

As far as how he told D&D how the whole ASOIAF is going to end, we don't know how much detail, probably not much at all. Probably something along the lines of: "This person is related to this person, this person goes here, that person goes there, these people mean this, this prophecy was the correct one, this god is the real one, this person sits the throne at the end."

Thats it. Now its up to a TV show to fill in 3 years of filler for the end of the series at the end of season 7. Or even if they extend it to 8 seasons... even more filler.

That "filler" couldn't have possibly been delivered from Gurm in any detail because HE DOESN'T KNOW IT. It's not written. We are still approx. 6/7/8? years away from the final word written in this masterpiece. What if in 4 years Gurm decides to change the ending? The HBO show isn't going to change theirs if they are filming or have it written.

So this "collection/masterpiece/saga" will go down in the annals of history as HBO will determine it, not how Gurm did. And thats a shame.

Imagine if JK Rowling didn't finish the last two books and let the producers of the movies "fill in the blanks." What a tragedy. We saw the Harry Potter masterpiece as JK Rowling intended it... or at least very very close to it.

The masses are going to see the masterpiece of A Song Of Ice and Fire very very distant from how George imagines it towards the end.


*Edit.

Now who's fault is that. Gurm's for only writing at home on a word processor? For not writing faster? Gurm's people's fault for not waiting before signing an HBO deal because they foresaw this happening?
 
I refuse to believe an author who has blatantly said he only listens to his editors when he feels like it does not have final say over whether or not his books get adapted into TV shows.

The simple and most likely explanation is GRRM simply misjudged how quickly the show would catch up and how long it would take him to write the books.

In many ways, I respect the fact that he's not letting all the pressure change how he writes. I'm perfectly happy to have some aspect of emotional closure on the TV show and have no problem waiting for the real/director's cut in the novels a few years later.
 

Brakke

Banned
Yo Red you need some perspective. "Masterpiece"? "The masses"? It's not some seminal literary work. Game of Thrones is pulpy shlock all the way. I enjoy it, it's good, but c'mon.
 

Eidan

Member
D&D spent a week sitting down with Martin to discuss where the story is going. I'm sure what they got from him was a lot more than bullet points. But still, I understand, to some degree, book readers' concerns. It's a shame that the show will tell the story before Martin does.

But a part of me also doesn't give a shit. The show is the show. The books the books. Knowing the major beats before the books come out won't hinder my enjoyment of them.

And yes, Martin only has himself to blame.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
I think it's interesting that some troll about the season finale exposes a latent fear here (and elsewhere, I'm guessing) that D&D just can't fucking wait to go off the rails with the characters.

I mean, they've made some pretty significant changes in paths but it does seem like all the characters will end up where they're supposed to be. Yet a fake show spoiler has a bunch of people immediately speculating that it was the goal all along. Heh.
 

Famassu

Member
That's not because of the Marillion change though. That's a different change entirely. That's what's extra weird is that he has an actual change right next to it to talk about, but he goes for Marillion instead.
Maybe he talks about it because it will come into play later on? I mean, if the third book hadn't been released when the Marillion stuff should've happened earlier and Marillion was omitted, people would've been all "well, who cares if he's gone", and then he plays a pretty big part in taking the blame at the Vale. In the books, the Lords of the Vale still don't trust Littlefinger at all, whereas Sansa revealing herself and making them believe the lie takes that burden away from Littlefinger (though, not that they still trust Littlefinger in the show, but it's a different kind of mistrust than suspecting someone of the murder of your ruler).

Or maybe that's one change he dares speaks of, since speaking of some changes might hint at future events and spoil them.
 
Yo Red you need some perspective. "Masterpiece"? "The masses"? It's not some seminal literary work. Game of Thrones is pulpy shlock all the way. I enjoy it, it's good, but c'mon.

I think you are being really unfair. It's of the same level as Dark Tower series or Discworld in terms of writing quality.
It's major flaw is the bloat though and the excessive descriptions of food
 

Helmholtz

Member
If anything the tv show will be ruined because Martin didn't go faster.
Yep... I'm pretty concerned about the future seasons of the show at this point. The quality in the writing is going to drop significantly if they don't have GRRM's work to fall back on. Just look at basically any show-invented scene that's come out so far. Most of them are pretty bad.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I do feel for those who have supported the series for 20 years are going to get the ending ruined by the TV series. There might be differences, but I have little doubt things will end pretty much the same. Even if they are not, the thrill of reading the new books will be gone. Even if the show did everything different, it would still ruin things. You would go into the books with an expectation of what will happen. The ability to go in blind would be totally gone, unless you somehow managed to avoid spoilers for what will likely be ten years.
 

Eidan

Member
I think it's interesting that some troll about the season finale exposes a latent fear here (and elsewhere, I'm guessing) that D&D just can't fucking wait to go off the rails with the characters.

I mean, they've made some pretty significant changes in paths but it does seem like all the characters will end up where they're supposed to be. Yet a fake show spoiler has a bunch of people immediately speculating that it was the goal all along. Heh.

I'm a fan of Stannis. But the hand wringing about how the show has handled his character has always been laughable to me. One or two scenes of him lusting for Melisandre was enough for most people to say they ruined his character, and they've been fretting ever since.
 
I went on this rant in the books thread and I still feel very pationately about it.

George RR Martin's life long masterpiece is going to be ruined because of a TV show.

As far as how he told D&D how the whole ASOIAF is going to end, we don't know how much detail, probably not much at all. Probably something along the lines of: "This person is related to this person, this person goes here, that person goes there, these people mean this, this prophecy was the correct one, this god is the real one, this person sits the throne at the end."

Thats it. Now its up to a TV show to fill in 3 years of filler for the end of the series at the end of season 7. Or even if they extend it to 8 seasons... even more filler.

That "filler" couldn't have possibly been delivered from Gurm in any detail because HE DOESN'T KNOW IT. It's not written. We are still approx. 6/7/8? years away from the final word written in this masterpiece. What if in 4 years Gurm decides to change the ending? The HBO show isn't going to change theirs if they are filming or have it written.

So this "collection/masterpiece/saga" will go down in the annals of history as HBO will determine it, not how Gurm did. And thats a shame.

Imagine if JK Rowling didn't finish the last two books and let the producers of the movies "fill in the blanks." What a tragedy. We saw the Harry Potter masterpiece as JK Rowling intended it... or at least very very close to it.

The masses are going to see the masterpiece of A Song Of Ice and Fire very very distant from how George imagines it towards the end.


*Edit.

Now who's fault is that. Gurm's for only writing at home on a word processor? For not writing faster? Gurm's people's fault for not waiting before signing an HBO deal because they foresaw this happening?
You aren't using the word filler correctly. And nothing is getting ruined.

Yo Red you need some perspective. "Masterpiece"? "The masses"? It's not some seminal literary work. Game of Thrones is pulpy shlock all the way. I enjoy it, it's good, but c'mon.
Pretty much.
 
I'm a fan of Stannis. But the hand wringing about how the show has handled his character has always been laughable to me. One or two scenes of him lusting for Melisandre was enough for most people to say they ruined his character, and they've been fretting ever since.
Them ruining him has nothing to do with Mel and everything to do with how they portray the character himself.
 
I refuse to believe an author who has blatantly said he only listens to his editors when he feels like it does not have final say over whether or not his books get adapted into TV shows.

How incompetent do you think HBO lawyers are? GRRM doesn't have a say because he sold his rights to it away. Editors don't have the same authority.
 
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