Cornballer
Member
*BOOKS SPOILERS* *BOOKS SPOILERS* *BOOKS SPOILERS* *BOOKS SPOILERS* *BOOKS SPOILERS* *BOOKS SPOILERS*
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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cubicle47b
Member
I started to change my mind once I looked at episode titles / casting for this season and saw what / how much material they were pulling from books outside of ASoS. I'm curious how much Dany material from Dance ends up in this season. Are they going to go as far as locking up the two dragons after Drogon kills a kid (which has already been setup this episode and essentially shown in trailers)?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The more characters you have, the less time each of them get in a single season. Dany actually has quite a bit of material in Dance, and as the cast size continues to grow, you're going to see even the larger characters get a little smaller chunk of the pie.
I could see them ending Season 5 with Drogon flying off after the wedding, which would then leave early Season 6 to focus on stuff like Quentyn releasing the dragons and Barristan and the Shavepate plotting to take power in Meereen. Dany could be left off screen for the first 3 episodes to keep up some of the suspense, and then Winds material might start for that storyline around Episode 5 of Season 6. That's just one possibility, but it seems like a decent place to end Season 5, and depending on how much material is available, they could have the Battle of Meereen be the Season 6 Episode 9 moment.
Bran is so far removed from everyone else right now that I don't really see what the issue is with him remaining ahead for awhile (and they've already cut his time down by a decent amount; I could easily see Bran only being in 4-5 episodes in Season 5). They're not going to rush through all of Cersei's Feast material in a couple of episodes just so that she can be around the same part of the story as Bran is.
That's Dany's very first chapter in Dance, so it's not like moving that up (and it sounds like that is right at the very end of the season) is really changing anything. She'll still have pretty much the entirety of Dance ahead of her.
cubicle47b
Member
Cornballer's watch shall not end until his death.
I just set GAF to auto-subscribe to all threads I post in. It's the first thing I check when I come on GAF. I have both subscribed and have never mixed the two threads up. People are stupid.
Yep. Also, it's not like the Blackfish will ever have kids if the rumours are true.
You have terrible taste if you thought it was terrible.
Or she's Jojen and Meera's mom.
Who said he really needs to? They don't really need to make him give up his life to bring back Cat if they don't want to.Reading through the no spoilers thread, it makes me sad seeing how many people seem to like Beric, seeing as he dies anticlimactically off-screen.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
that kind of dedication is why cornballer is a mod
Steelyuhas
Member
No, just subscribers.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
It seems you're assuming for whatever reason that they're going to do a 1:1 adaptation of that content and that there isn't a lot of stuff unimportant to the story that can will be trimmed if not cut outright. Like I already said, a lot of chapters or even book pages doesn't mean a lot TV time required to cover it. Jon had 13 chapters in Dance, so what? How many chapters a character has is irrelevant to how much TV time they require, what is relevant is the "events" of the character's story and even with 13 chapters it doesn't mean Jon needs a ton of time to cover it, redundancies will be eliminated, walks and traveling from point A to point B will trimmed or cut. As usual the focus will be on the most popular characters while the "supporting cast" will have less. All of what you listed can be handled just fine in one season, hell a fair bit of Theon's story is going to be done this season.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It's not really irrelevant. Characters who have more chapters in the corresponding material have gotten more of the screen time. See Ned in Season 1, Tyrion and Arya in Seasons 2 and 3, etc. See also Bran getting much less screen time in Season 3.
Jon has a lot of material in Dance, and they aren't just going to leave that material out entirely. They haven't been doing things like that to date.
As far as Theon, as far as I'm aware, we're only getting up through his second chapter of Dance. Everything else in his Dance storyline will be left for Season 5, as much of that is wrapped up in Ramsay's wedding and the aftermath of that.
Steelyuhas
Member
All this discussion reminds me just how many damn storylines are in Feast and Dance and how spread out pretty much all the core characters are. Going to be a damn tough adaption.
Also from the last few pages, I wonder if there's a way to give Beric some closure without preemptively stomping on the Stoneheart plot. It's just kind of clumsily implied that he gave his life (for the final time) to revive Stoneheart in the book.
Also from the last few pages, I wonder if there's a way to give Beric some closure without preemptively stomping on the Stoneheart plot. It's just kind of clumsily implied that he gave his life (for the final time) to revive Stoneheart in the book.
Agreed, those people shouldn't be coddled and babysat.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
I just look up topics I've posted in but I should probably start subscribing instead.
Or that could be that though has there been any hints of it?
I'm not just talking about how many chapters I'm talking about the number of pages they take up. Jon's story is simply not going to end next season with him just being elected Lord Commander and so what will they end it with that's compelling? The first episode of season four pretty much covered (while altering a great deal) two of Jon's ASoS chapters in less than five minutes, the point is a lot of things that entire chapters were dedicated to don't require a lot of screen time to handle, especially when this show, especially beyond season one is not going for a straight up adaptation.
The thing is AFfC and ADWD are going to be condensed, it simply has to happen because they can't afford to spend two full seasons on them and things that make for good season ending cliffhangers have to actually be season ending cliffhangers and that stuff comes at the end of a season, those books are a pain in the ass thanks to how they were written/edited and they're going to be pretty much recombining them and plenty of stuff is going to be trimmed, cut and altered to do so.
Or that could be that though has there been any hints of it?
I'm not just talking about how many chapters I'm talking about the number of pages they take up. Jon's story is simply not going to end next season with him just being elected Lord Commander and so what will they end it with that's compelling? The first episode of season four pretty much covered (while altering a great deal) two of Jon's ASoS chapters in less than five minutes, the point is a lot of things that entire chapters were dedicated to don't require a lot of screen time to handle, especially when this show, especially beyond season one is not going for a straight up adaptation.
The thing is AFfC and ADWD are going to be condensed, it simply has to happen because they can't afford to spend two full seasons on them and things that make for good season ending cliffhangers have to actually be season ending cliffhangers and that stuff comes at the end of a season, those books are a pain in the ass thanks to how they were written/edited and they're going to be pretty much recombining them and plenty of stuff is going to be trimmed, cut and altered to do so.
Cornballer
Member
It's just a little thing we're doing for now, and it isn't wholly necessary - more of a courtesy. We'll see how the thread goes and adjust if we need to. If you find it objectionable or have any another concerns about how the thread is going, please feel free to send me a PM and we can discuss it. Thanks.
demosthenes
Member
Clumsy? They said he performed the kiss and died in the process.
Steelyuhas
Member
I guess clumsy isn't the right word, it just felt brief and unsatisfying to me.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Well he is pissing off all his children. And they're not the most stable bunch.
Fair enough.
That's true. I'd be totally cool with Beric being the first book dead book character the show kept around.
Unsatisfying is definitely the term I'd use. He's built up to be so interesting and then is dispatched like he's the most minor character imaginable.
Other posters are suggesting one of his kids will murder him. Those Unsullied are either clever, or know more than they're willing to tell.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, it is possible. People have sneaked their way in there before and dropped some pretty prescient theories.
And you are assuming or exaggerating how much they can cut and how much time they even have in a season. They are already rushing shit way too quickly and what you're suggesting would mean they would have to crank that rushing into eleven. I mean, it's not like they CAN'T do it, it's more of a they SHOULDN'T do it if they want to have any kind of resemblance of half-decent pacing. These people need time to grow/develop and to react and get to know new people, new circumstances etc. We need to see Tyrion's downfall. The schedule for S5 for Tyrion can't be like:
S05E01: show Tyrion drunk and not giving a shit about life, he gets to the end of his sea voyage
S05E02: he's sent away with Griff & his gang. He gets to know them and reveals one of them is actually a Targaryen
S05E03: some more talking, the action scene on the boat (I actually don't remember if this happens before or after him finding out their true identities, if so, then switch E02 & E03's place) where Tyrion almost dies
S05E04; we find out Tyrion didn't die, Tyrion manipulates Aegon through his cunning
S05E05: arrives to town, Tyrion is kidnapped by Jorah
S05E06: some fun moments with Jorah, they sail out to Meereen
S05E07: they get captured by the slavers
S05E08: he gets introduced to Penny and starts interacting with Penny
S05E09: wedding with him doing silly shit with Penny
S05E10: aftermath of wedding scene
I mean, sure, that keeps the story rolling, but the character development simply wouldn't be there. It would be way better for them to slow shit down, let us really see Tyrion's anguish and how directionless he is for at least a couple of episodes. Let us really get to know Aegon before revealing he is Aegon. Penny is a pivotal part of Tyrion's character development so at least give us more than one episode with her before we are supposed to believe Tyrion would agree to do their whole clown act in Dany's wedding. And that's not even taking account the fact that the story has more characters that it can fit in a single episode, so a lot of characters don't even appear in every episode.
But yeah, it's silly for you to complain about pacing issues, when what we suggest (S5 still mostly AFFC/ADWD for almost all characters, Season 6 still with AFFC/ADWD stuff for at least the first half or so of the season, ending with TWOW stuff) is a much better alternative as far as pacing goes than your ultra-super-mega-rushed pacing, especially given that the show likes to show the story from non-POV characters' POVs, situations that no POV character has ever witnessed and especially as your suggestion is to cut big, seemingly super-important chunks out of the story (i.e. Martells & Greyjoys, who Martin wouldn't have introduced if they had no role to play).
Meh, Stop being so blinded by your hatred of Dany. You're acting as if there's nothing interesting happening in Meereen when there's plenty. Like I said, plenty of people will very likely interested in seeing stuff like Dany struggling with the Sons of the Harpy (they could show their gruesome acts up close), her very own lovable little dragons becoming almost completely uncontrollable, trying to negotiate with the slavers, dealing with treacherous advisors, big wedding proposals to end the upcoming war, war declarations, weddings with dragons crashing the party, the chaos that ensues, Quentyn's stupid mission & death, Barristan being awesome, the aftermath of the wedding with Meereen & Dany's army being without her and then beginning of the war. Huge stuff like that is not only intriquing, it's far from stuff they can or should cut. Stuff like that could easily fill all of S5 and at least the first few episodes of S6 with. They could use 1-2 episodes for every single subject I've described above (and some completely not-in-the-books stuff like in every season so far).
It's impossible to get through AFFC & ADWD in just one season (+ 1-2 episodes). Or then they'll have to completely rape the story and remove so many awesome storylines & factions from the story that the show really cements its place as a far inferior & downright shitty and not really worth watching rendition of ASOIAF.
And they can't just start cutting the biggest houses in the whole game of thrones out. Martells need to be in. They can't just remove a fucking House who will obviously have a big role in the story soon. If they remove them just because they want to be done with the show ASAP, then they should never have even taken up the task to make ASOIAF into a show.
On the other hand, I never would have read the books if not for the TV show.
This 4th season will end with Jon being selected Lord Commander. I've already given examples of where they could end Season 5 in a post on the previous page. I'd say us seeing Jon shouting "Open the gates" and then wildlings pouring south of the Wall would be very powerful imagery to end Jon's Season 5 story arc with and a kind of "I wonder how the fuck will they make all that work" intriquing thing that will bring people back for Season 6. Before Jon comes to that decision, they could easily spend most of season 5 with the aftermath of the upcoming attack of the wall, him dealing with Stannis, him scheming sending Mance's child away, actually sending Sam on his way, his interactions with Mance altogether, his interactions with Melissandre etc. etc. Season 6 arc for Jon could then be about how they settle the wildlings in, how he starts to meddle with the kingdoms affairs even though he shouldn't and how there's growing discontent in the NIght's Watch.
And other characters have good points to leave their story in. For Arya it could be taking some significant new step in her assassin studies. For Cersei it could be her being put into prison (that's a shocking enough twist, then the walk of shame could be a great event for some early-ish episode of Season 6). For Theon it could be the escape from Winterfell and/or reaching Stannis.
Yes, and the 9th Episode will spend a whole episode on just Jon and the Attack on the wall, while ignoring everyone else's storylines. And Jon might not even be that big of a part of every episode, so it's not like they will burn through 2 chapters per episode.
A lot don't, but a lot does. For example, introducing Aegon can't be rushed. We can't just see Aegon in S05E02 or E03 and then have Tyrion just figure out who he is in the next episode. It seems unnatural for him to figure it out that quickly and it feels stupid to rush him through his journey with Aegon when it's an important part of giving Tyrion something to live for.
As I said, there's plenty of cliffhangery stuff in ADWD & AFFC. Maybe not quite on the level of Red Wedding or Blackwater, but still big game changing and/or shocking events. A lot will be cut, but they will also add a lot of non-existent stuff that was never in the books and expand certain characters' presence in the show. They also won't have every character in every episode, so that will slow down certain storylines and make it practically impossible to do everything as quickly as you assume they will be done.
All this talk about whether or not people will remember who Jon Arryn is got me thinking about another scene late in the season; how much backstory do we have on Tyrion's previous marriage? I wonder how they'll do Jaime's confession about it, I freaking loved that scene in the book but show-watchers would probably be confused as hell by it.
Doesn't Tyrion also reveal Cersei sleeping with other people to get back at Jaime? That hasn't happened in the show.
Doesn't Tyrion also reveal Cersei sleeping with other people to get back at Jaime? That hasn't happened in the show.
There was a lengthy tent scene in Season 1 where Tyrion told Shae and Bronn the story of his marriage.
In Season 2 he catches Lancel sleeping with Cersei, and forces him to spy for him.
Lol, forgot about Lancel. Just assumed she hadn't because we don't have any Kettleblacks.
GentlemanCrow
Member
Looking at this, there could easily be 3 seasons made out of AFFC and ADWD. A lot of stuff I've completely forgotten about and stuff that didn't grab me when I was reading that would actually make good TV.
They could make Quentyn and his arc into something that would be quite interesting and not something that felt like a bit of filler. And the Greyjoy brothers, who I disliked reading about if I'm being honest, would add more variety to a show that excels at different locals and viewpoints.
That would take them to season 7.
They did have a Tyrion scene where he explained his previous wife to Bronn and Shae. They would just recap before the episode probably. And yeah, Cersei sleeping around to get what she wanted hasn't occurred yet..there isn't even a Taena Merrywether or Kettleblack.
Honestly the show and books have such differing timelines at this point it's hard to see what exactly they want to do.
I'm pretty sure Cersei's cheating is happening off-screen in the show and will be treated as more of a reveal. That conversation she had with Qyburn was definitely a reference to him getting her birth control, I think.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Surprise last minute Kettleblacks!
PhoenixDark
Banned
I never said I hate or dislike Dany's chapters, in fact upon re-read I appreciated them more. But they won't make good television, especially if it's split into two seasons. There's simply not enough content for two seasons, which is why I maintain S5 will cover most of AFFC/ADWD.
If the next big "episode 9" moment is Daznak's Pit, as many of us believe, that means Tyrion's story has to be caught up considering he's present at the pit too (unless they're making drastic changes). As I've said, I'd imagine parts of ADWD will be in S6 but it'll predominately focus on TWOW.
How would you guys turn Sansa's arc into two seasons? Jon? Tyrion? Not enough happens to justify a split, it wouldn't be compelling television.
Dany's arc could easily be done in 10 episodes. We know the current season features the farmer presenting his daughter's bones to Dany, and it's very likely it also includes Dany having the dragons chained up. Weiss has said that the tenth episode features the most expensive scene in the show's history, and I'd imagine he was referring to this. So S5 would be:
Ep 1-8: Introduction to the Harpy attacks, Astapor envoys, Qarth declaration of war, Hizdar proposals, Daario, meeting Quentyn
Ep 9: Daznak's Pit
Ep 10: Binding Drogon, stumbling across hostile khalasar (I'm assuming they'll show some of the battle, then end on a cliff hanger)
Two seasons of Dany negotiating with foreigners would not be good television guys, let's be real. Even one season would push it, given how many people expect Dany to head for Westeros asap. I'm sure the writers will create a lot of new content, but given how that worked out in S2 I'm not convinced it'll be good.
Again, I have nothing against Dany. I'm just saying that 8 episodes of negotiation, marriage proposals, Daario sex scenes, and the occasional Harpy attack is not going to sustain viewership. She's probably the most popular character on the show, she has to "do something."
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I would kill for some Kettleblacks on the show, if only so I can have some actors' faces to help me differentiate them.
edit: if Tyrion's plot progresses enough next season maybe we'll finally get some Brown Ben Plumm.
KingHenrik30
Member
They could show some quick scenes of Cersei getting it on with someone else. Would be even more poignant with Jamie at Kings Landing.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
The only thing that's a shame is that we don't have Moon Boy in the show. That added some extra hilarity to Tyrion's line.
Maybe they'll still have him...for all I know.
The Artful Dodger
Member
lmao. This was posted in the Unsullied thread...idk if it made over here, but it cracked me up.
KFC Capitalizing on Game of Thrones
KFC Capitalizing on Game of Thrones
so good
Oh man...they need that line. It's such an integral part of Jaime's character that I'll be quite sad if it's not in there.
At least you didn't deny it. That's the first step to getting help.
There's a theory out there that Howland Reed took her as a wife and smuggled her back to Greywater Watch and kept her secret there because her family wouldn't approve. The only real evidence of this is that Howland watched her during the tournament at Harrenhal (because he loved her?) and Meera would've been born around that time since she's the same age as Robb and Jon and Ashara had a daughter at that time. It's pretty out there but it's fun.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/89012-howland-reed-ashara-dayne-meera-jojen/
It wouldn't be quite as funny but I'm kind of expecting them to throw in Pod's name in the show.
At least you didn't deny it. That's the first step to getting help.
No I meant you. Like way cool
Exterminieren
Banned
Judging by the trailers, it seems reasonably likely that the Sons of the Harpy start attacking this season.
Enosh
Member
! BOOK SPOILERS ! ! BOOK SPOILERS ! ! BOOK SPOILERS ! ! BOOK SPOILERS !
I found the Daario recasting hilarious mostly because of the way all other characters acted when speaking with him
"hello daario naharis, how are you daario naharis, you will ride in the back daario naharis, or do you want to walk on foot daario naharis"
a bit exaggerated but you get what I mean ^^
loved the opening scene, Tywin is so awesome, sad to see that he will be killed this season by fucking Tyrion -.-
Edit, I guess I have to do it too
I have no idea how to color stuff
I found the Daario recasting hilarious mostly because of the way all other characters acted when speaking with him
"hello daario naharis, how are you daario naharis, you will ride in the back daario naharis, or do you want to walk on foot daario naharis"
a bit exaggerated but you get what I mean ^^
loved the opening scene, Tywin is so awesome, sad to see that he will be killed this season by fucking Tyrion -.-
Edit, I guess I have to do it too
I have no idea how to color stuff
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