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[LordCanti]

The necklace thing was kind of blatant, but the guy that put together Olenna, Dontos, Littlefinger and his desire to bring Sansa with him specifically because he cared for Catelyn? Mannnnn.....

Remember how Robert made Jaime sit outside the door while he fucked other women? I don't think Joffrey would worry much about offending the Tyrells once he's married into the family. Tywin looked very pleased as Renly was mocked.

Favorite part of the episode was looking at the faces of guests during the War of the Five King re-enactment. Varys was particularly interesting, as he had no reason to be offended.

Joff wouldn't worry about it, but Tywin doesn't allow mockery of his family. He spent most of a lifetime bringing the family back from the laughingstock his own father made it. Mocking the man that is about to wed his only daughter is a mockery of his daughter, which he wouldn't abide.

Then again, that's book Tywin I'm talking about and not necessarily show Tywin. I'd need to see screenshots to tell for sure who it was supposed to be.

Nah, I think it was easy to piece together. There was a huge focus on Olenna during the scene where Joffrey grabs the cup. They hint heavily at her being involved. Plus before the wedding reception began, you hear her sympathize with Sansa over Rob dying at wedding while Olenna was playing with her necklace/hair. They were pretty heavy-handed about it in the show..it doesn't surprise me that she is one of the main theories this early on.

EDIT: BTW, my first post in this thread..I've read through the first three books (read them after season 3) and was too scared to even come in here because of the "unmarked spoilers" warning. I didn't want anything from book 4 or 5 ruined, but I don't really have a place for discussion anymore it seems. I remember there was a marked spoiler thread last season...

Honestly I suggest running from this thread now. We spoil everything right til the last book, without warning, and not tagged at all.

 

[gnrmjd]

Yeah, folks think thats why they picked him. They wanted to avoid a bit of the creepy/pedo factor when is becomes TommenxMargaery.

To me this makes it 10x creepier. Margaery/Tommen was pretty cute since it was obviously more of a mother/son thing than an actual marriage. but now that Tommen is old enough to actually have an interest in girls and be sexually active it gets to be a lot creepier than it was in the book where I thought it was funny/cute.

 

[Citizen_Insane]

You mean other than the suspicious necklace scene from episode 1, and the sudden reintroduction of a minor character that has been missing for almost 2 seasons?

People are naturally going to speculate who did it, and it's not like the Queen of Thorns was the only person brought up in that thread.

That's easy enough to believe, I agree. But being so sure that she took a stone off from her necklace and used it to poison Joffrey is blatantly a spoiler.

 

[darkazcura]

Honestly I suggest running from this thread now. We spoil everything right til the last book, without warning, and not tagged at all.

I know. I just decided to pop in tonight because it was a pretty big event.

I don't really have anywhere to go, though. Why did they decide to get rid of the marked spoiler thread anyway?

 

[Quadrophenic]

in the books, Theon never told Ramsay about what really happened to Bran and Rickon, right? or am I not remembering correctly?

also, where can I find the novels for the Dunk and Egg stories? When I searched Amazon I just got links to some graphic novels and an out of print copy. Is it out of print, or are they included in some other printing by a different name?

 

[Fuzzy]

Nah, I think it was easy to piece together. There was a huge focus on Olenna during the scene where Joffrey grabs the cup. They hint heavily at her being involved. Plus before the wedding reception began, you hear her sympathize with Sansa over Rob dying at wedding while Olenna was playing with her necklace/hair. They were pretty heavy-handed about it in the show..it doesn't surprise me that she is one of the main theories this early on.

EDIT: BTW, my first post in this thread..I've read through the first three books (read them after season 3) and was too scared to even come in here because of the "unmarked spoilers" warning. I didn't want anything from book 4 or 5 ruined, but I don't really have a place for discussion anymore it seems. I remember there was a marked spoiler thread last season...

You're in no man's land. You have 3 choices:

1) Read the other thread and not spoil anything
2) Read this thread and be spoiled
3) Read the other 2 books so you're not spoiled in here

in the books, Theon never told Ramsay about what really happened to Bran and Rickon, right? or am I not remembering correctly?

also, where can I find the novels for the Dunk and Egg stories? When I searched Amazon I just got links to some graphic novels and an out of print copy. Is it out of print, or are they included in some other printing by a different name?

You're not remembering it right. It was Ramsay's idea (while pretending to be Reek) to kill the other boys because they couldn't find Bran and Rickon.

The D&E stories are part of anthologies. There are one each in Legends, Legends II and Warriors. GRRM mentioned on his blog this weekend that the first 3 stories would be collected into one book most likely in 2015.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/365715.html

 

[Basileus777]

Why did they decide to get rid of the marked spoiler thread anyway?

Because the show has gotten far enough into the books that that aren't many that have read ASOS and not the 2 books after that. And the show is already covering material from the latest book. We've gotten to the point where the only meaningful distinction is whether you've either read the books or haven't.

 

[gnrmjd]

in the books, Theon never told Ramsay about what really happened to Bran and Rickon, right? or am I not remembering correctly?

also, where can I find the novels for the Dunk and Egg stories? When I searched Amazon I just got links to some graphic novels and an out of print copy. Is it out of print, or are they included in some other printing by a different name?

Im pretty sure it was Ramsay's idea to kill the other boys in the first place

 

[Quadrophenic]

Oh damn, you're right. I completely forgot about the Ramsay was Reek thing. Thanks!

 

[LordCanti]

also, where can I find the novels for the Dunk and Egg stories? When I searched Amazon I just got links to some graphic novels and an out of print copy. Is it out of print, or are they included in some other printing by a different name?

Edit: Apparently I'm wrong. Read Fuzzy's post above.

I know. I just decided to pop in tonight because it was a pretty big event.

I don't really have anywhere to go, though. Why did they decide to get rid of the marked spoiler thread anyway?

Start reading. Audiobook even. Shouldn't take long.

 

[Chris R]

The three non-book readers who I watch with loved it. They think that Dontos was the killer, nobody has put 2 and 2 together just yet though...

 

[Subitai]

Because the show has gotten far enough into the books that that aren't many that have read ASOS and not the 2 books after that. And the show is already covering material from the latest book. We've gotten to the point where the only meaningful distinction is whether you've either read the books or haven't.

Yeah, the problem is I think non-readers used to catch themselves when they saw the sea of black. Now, the safety net is gone and they're hitting things hard.

 

[darkazcura]

Edit: Apparently I'm wrong. Read Fuzzy's post above.



Start reading. Audiobook even. Shouldn't take long.

I know this will sound crazy around here, but I'm probably just gonna avoid all threads for this season because I actually like the way the show portrays the characters and story better (except for Stannis). I purposely stopped after three because I pretty much figured out I like the show better. Don't mean to hate on anything, though!

Anyway enough posts about me and the books.

How long do you guys thing they'll stay on the trial for? Three or four episodes, maybe? I was really waiting for how they were going to completely turn TV show Shae..I think they finally broke the camel's back with with the way Tyrion berated her. Before that, it would have made absolutely no sense for TV show Shae to do what book Shae does. Now I can kind of see it happening..

 

[LordCanti]

Yeah, the problem is I think non-readers used to catch themselves when they saw the sea of black. Now, the safety net is gone and they're hitting things hard.

That's why this thread has Reading Rainbow to warn people off at the top of most every page.

 

[DrForester]

Nah, I think it was easy to piece together. There was a huge focus on Olenna during the scene where Joffrey grabs the cup. They hint heavily at her being involved. Plus before the wedding reception began, you hear her sympathize with Sansa over Rob dying at wedding while Olenna was playing with her necklace/hair. They were pretty heavy-handed about it in the show..it doesn't surprise me that she is one of the main theories this early on.

EDIT: BTW, my first post in this thread..I've read through the first three books (read them after season 3) and was too scared to even come in here because of the "unmarked spoilers" warning. I didn't want anything from book 4 or 5 ruined, but I don't really have a place for discussion anymore it seems. I remember there was a marked spoiler thread last season...

Unfortunately people in the process of reading the books are in a bit of a pinch. I was in the same spot last I season. I would recommend plowing through those two books ASAP and joining us here in the cool kids thread.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I like how nicely they showed that the only people who enjoyed the dwarf show were Jeoffrey and Cersei.

 

[golem]

Someone just called for Margarey's marriage to Tommen in the other thread… comeonson.gif

 

[Hystzen]

Someone just called for Margarey's marriage to Tommen in the other thread… comeonson.gif

Same person who magically figured out who killed Joffrey also

 

[Basileus777]

Someone just called for Margarey's marriage to Tommen in the other thread… comeonson.gif

It's common sense. Stop the witch hunting son.gif.

All this angst over the other thread is just too much.

 

[Aiii]

It's common sense. Stop the witch hunting son.gif.

All this angst over the other thread is just too much.

You say that, but linking Olenna AND the necklace to the poisoning is damn near impossible if you have no foresight. That's one hell of a lucky guess to figure out before Sansa even notices the missing gem.

He also manages to mention not seeing Littlefinger for a while, mention Sansa is fleeing and mention how much he cared for Catelyn and asking Sansa to flee with him before he left in the same post.

There is just no way you get that lucky on your own without knowing what happens.

 

[Moff]

dont ask me why but I somwhow thought joffrey killed penny's brother at his wedding and thats why she wanted to kill tyrion in ADWD. totally forgot that her brother was mistaken for tyrion and got killed because of that.

I dont mind at all that she wasnt shown, its another ramsay situation from season 2. she will come and all will be fine.

joffreys death was great, I especially loved how jaime came rushing for him, thats exactly the kind of thing I love with the deviations from the books. its like an alternate reality where we see things we wondered about. how would jaime have reacted if he was there?

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

was it ever explained why Littlefinger wanted to kill JOffrey as well? or at least had a hand in the death?

 

[Basileus777]

You say that, but linking Olenna AND the necklace to the poisoning is damn near impossible if you have no foresight. That's one hell of a lucky guess to figure out before Sansa even notices the missing gem.

He also manages to mention not seeing Littlefinger for a while, mention Sansa is fleeing and mention how much he cared for Catelyn and asking Sansa to flee with him before he left in the same post.

There is just no way you get that lucky on your own without knowing what happens.

The show has made the Olenna angle pretty obvious, especially with the suddenness of Dontos' appearance. There is a reason to many people are going in that direction. Littlefinger is Littlefinger, of course he and Varys are going to be implicated in any sort of plot in King's Landing.

Like I said earlier, the show viewers aren't missing that much more information than those that read the books. Maybe some in that thread have extra knowledge, but jumping on every perceived cheat is too much.

 

[Snake]

Gonna be a much less mirthful show without my man Joff, but at least they gave him his due. Great, engrossing episode.

 

[Aiii]

Pretty much everyone benefits from Joffrey's death. Even his grandfather rather wanted Tommen to be the king. Joffrey wasn't controllable, he was batshit insane, vindictive and had no political sense at all, meaning the country would be at war for his entire (short) reign. Tommen is considered a kind soul and is young, so his father and the small council would rule in his stead as they had intended with Joffrey.

Pretty much the only person who cares about Joffrey dying is Cersei.

 

[Subitai]

That's why this thread has Reading Rainbow to warn people off at the top of most every page.

It's not working, but it probably needs some more time to click.

 

[Pluto]

Someone just called for Margarey's marriage to Tommen in the other thread… comeonson.gif

That's really easy to predict, the deal between the Lannisters and the Tyrells was that Margarey becomes queen, of course she's now going to marry Tommen, Tywin won't tell the Tyrell's, their most powerful ally, to take their army and go home.

The D&E stories are part of anthologies. There are one each in Legends, Legends II and Warriors. GRRM mentioned on his blog this weekend that the first 3 stories would be collected into one book most likely in 2015.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/365715.html

They haven't been collected yet? I bought a collection of the three novellas in german last year, I assumed it was out in english as well.

 

[CloudWolf]

You say that, but linking Olenna AND the necklace to the poisoning is damn near impossible if you have no foresight.

The necklace: Yeah, that's one hell of a guess.
Olenna: Not so much, it was pretty heavily foreshadowed. Even in this episode you had 'subtle' cuts towards Olenna during the wedding whenever Joffrey did something bad and when the priest said something about 'curse thee who would want to tear these two apart' and of course that ominous line about killing at weddings.

 

[erawsd]

I don't remember any physical contact between them in the books or any overtures at all. She was definitely affectionate towards him (giving him cats and such) and it seems he's fond of her, but I never got that vibe. Was I missing something?

No, I don't think there is any physical contact. I think its more the suggestion and romantic words they'd have to exchange. The old actor was around 10, while Natalie Dormer is in her 30s.

To me this makes it 10x creepier. Margaery/Tommen was pretty cute since it was obviously more of a mother/son thing than an actual marriage. but now that Tommen is old enough to actually have an interest in girls and be sexually active it gets to be a lot creepier than it was in the book where I thought it was funny/cute.

I agree. Tommen's innocence and naivete is important to character. I don't know how they'll be able to pull that off without making this older Tommen look like he has a mental handicap.

 

[Ponn]

The death is going to be talked about the most but I felt the change in tides that this was the catalyst for much more intriguing.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Holy shit, Roose/Ramsay/Reek scenes. It's like a train wreck in slow motion, I love it.

"Have her brought to the tower of the Hand". Ohhh snap. This whole EPISODE is a train wreck. My lord.

 

[RedShift]

Stannis burned Florent just because he worshipped the Seven? What the fuck?

At this point his show storyline is basically a carefully planned character assassination.

 

[Pluto]

The necklace: Yeah, that's one hell of a guess.

Not really, Donthos being shoved into the "previously on" segment after 2 years made it obvious that he's going to do something important soon, then he shows up and basically tells Sansa "You're nice, take this necklace". They were almost pointing an arrow at the necklace last episode and this episode you have Olenna acting shifty and fondling the necklace before Joffrey dies, it doesn't take much to connect the dots.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Stannis burned Florent just because he worshipped the Seven? What the fuck?

At this point his show storyline is basically a carefully planned character assassination.

There's definitely elements of doubt at this stage I think. No doubt Stannis's arc this season will be giving Melisandre the big "fuck off".

 

[Fuzzy]

Someone just called for Margarey's marriage to Tommen in the other thread… comeonson.gif

PM a mod then.

Yup. Let's try and stay focused on the show and discussing the episode here. If you see something problematic, send a PM to a moderator and we'll take a look. Posting about suspected book readers here doesn't help much and derails discussion here.

They haven't been collected yet? I bought a collection of the three novellas in german last year, I assumed it was out in english as well.

GRRM said in the blog post that non-English publishers jumped the gun. English will get a fully illustrated edition while those countries won't.

 

[Pluto]

GRRM said in the blog post that non-English publishers jumped the gun. English will get a fully illustrated edition while those countries won't.

Eh, I don't care for illustrations, they tend to screw with my imagination.

 

[Tacitus_]

Stannis burned Florent just because he worshipped the Seven? What the fuck?

At this point his show storyline is basically a carefully planned character assassination.

Well, for disobeying his orders to stop worshiping them. So you're technically correct.

 

[ASIS]

Not really, Donthos being shoved into the "previously on" segment after 2 years made it obvious that he's going to do something important soon, then he shows up and basically tells Sansa "You're nice, take this necklace". They were almost pointing an arrow at the necklace last episode and this episode you have Olenna acting shifty and fondling the necklace before Joffrey dies, it doesn't take much to connect the dots.

It does take a lot of guess work, because as it stands now, Olenna has no benefit of killing Joffrey and thus, no motive. If anything the martells seem like a better candidate, because they do have a motive. The only thing you can be sure of at this point is that Dontos is involved somehow, but nothing more.

The relationship between Dontos, his necklace, Olenna, Joffrey, Tommen, and Little Finger is near impossible to figure out without having some sort of insight. Yes the show is less subtle but it didn't exactly spill out the beans just yet.

 

[RedShift]

yoink

 

[Tacitus_]

It does take a lot of guess work, because as it stands now, Olenna has no benefit of killing Joffrey and thus, no motive. If anything the martells seem like a better candidate, because they do have a motive. The only thing you can be sure of at this point is that Dontos is involved somehow, but nothing more.

The relationship between Dontos, his necklace, Olenna, Joffrey, Tommen, and Little Finger is near impossible to figure out without having some sort of insight. Yes the show is less subtle but it didn't exactly spill out the beans just yet.

That ^ fondling going on and one gemstone disappearing after it was obvious as hell if you went through the scenes with a fine comb. They aren't idiots even if they don't read the books.

 

[qizah]

It's bad that I don't even remember who killed Joffery from the books. I haven't watched the episode yet but I'm interested to see how they did that scene.

 

[Enosh]

really, burning him because he is an infidel? really show... we just going to ignore the whole "tried to sell his daughter out to the Lannisters behind his back" part?

ffs at least try to be subtle about making Stannis into a villain

 

[eot]

Was there a gem missing in Sansa's necklace at the end? I couldn't tell.

 

[hengyu]

Why couldn't Olenna have brought in the necklace herself to the wedding? I read up till half of AFFC, but I don't remember this being addressed.

 

[Drazgul]

Was there a gem missing in Sansa's necklace at the end? I couldn't tell.

Yep, both the non-book and this thread have pictures if you look back.

 

[Violater]

I envy people read dying the books for the first time

 

[Enosh]

Why couldn't Olenna have brought in the necklace herself to the wedding? I read up till half of AFFC, but I don't remember this being addressed.

well there is the someone notices, it breaks, something happens etc
if that does happen better to not be around her neck at the time

 

[Pluto]

It does take a lot of guess work, because as it stands now, Olenna has no benefit of killing Joffrey and thus, no motive. If anything the martells seem like a better candidate, because they do have a motive. The only thing you can be sure of at this point is that Dontos is involved somehow, but nothing more.

The relationship between Dontos, his necklace, Olenna, Joffrey, Tommen, and Little Finger is near impossible to figure out without having some sort of insight. Yes the show is less subtle but it didn't exactly spill out the beans just yet.

I'll give you Littlefinger, everything else is easy to figure out without extra knowledge. Dontos shows up out of nowhere and the show makes sure the audience remembers who he his, he gives Sansa a necklace, Olenna fondles that necklace, after that a gem is missing, she talks about murder at a wedding, acts suspicious, Joffrey dies, Dontos shows up again and gets Sansa out of there. It's all on screen and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that Margarey is going to marry Tommen, the deal that Margarey becomes queen is still in place, Tommen is Joffrey's heir, what else is going to happen if not a Tommen/Margarey marriage?

Even the Littlefinger connection can be made without reading the books, he tried to get Sansa out of King's Landing just a few episodes ago and he made a big speech about creating chaos to get more power for himself.

The Martells had a better motive but no real opportunity to slip Joffrey poison at the wedding, so it doesn't suprise me they're not at the top of the non-reader suspect list.

 

[Violater]

Agree but they're starting to overuse it.

Wasn't the song played a lot at the wedging in the book?

 

[Ambient80]

I'm not particularly surprised the other thread figured out the necklace bit, but for someone to "guess" about Littlefinger loving Cat so he sets this all up so he can take Sansa with him etc is pretty damn suspicious.