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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO

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rocketskates

Member
I do wonder if Shae actually got on that boat. And how she will fit into the trial and Tyrion's escape, considering they stay true to the books.

I could see them pulling off a "she actually got on the boat but when she heard her lion was arrested wanted to come see him" and that's when they are able to convince her to turn on him.
 
L

LordCanti

Member
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Yeah, you've got the first shocker of him killing Shae, then again when he kills Tywin right after.
Click to expand...

You caught Reading Rainbow duty big time with this post.

rocketskates said:
I do wonder if Shae actually got on that boat. And how she will fit into the trial and Tyrion's escape, considering they stay true to the books.

I could see them pulling off a "she actually got on the boat but when she heard her lion was arrested wanted to come see him" and that's when they are able to convince her to turn on him.
Click to expand...

The more I think about it, the more I think that they really are just going to have Bronn turn on him and sell her out :/
 
Nydius

Nydius

Member
pulga said:
what a great fucking episode
Click to expand...

I will just have to agree to disagree.

They've done a right shitty job with Dontos' backstory and role - the way he just appeared with a Terminator-esque, come with me or they'll kill you line was absolutely comical. They've done as little of a job as possible with establishing Petyr Baelish's role in the entire event or foreshadowing his plans for Sansa so the next few parts are going to seem completely and utterly out of place. Penny and Groat with Pretty Pig and Crunch? Their omissions are glaring considering Penny and Pretty Pig play a pretty god damn big role in Tyrion's future!

The number of omissions for the sake of television are disappointing. My wife is a TV only viewer and she had to watch the last 15 minutes three times (and then ask for explanations) to understand what happened. She thought Joffrey was choking on pie until Cersei yelled her accusation of Tyrion. That's how poorly the scenario was set up. Maybe it's book snobbery but knowing of the various poisons - including the strangler - ahead of time made this scene much more impactful and made far more sense. Now they're going to have to spend a ridiculous amount of time in the "trial" episodes going back and throwing in exposition that should have been there before the wedding.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
Captiosus said:
Penny and Groat with Pretty Pig and Crunch? Their omissions are glaring considering Penny and Pretty Pig play a pretty god damn big role in Tyrion's future!
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Well they played a pretty horrible and boring role in Tyrion's future. So I was sure before that they were leaving that out. They're definitely leaving it out now.
 
L

Laurentius

Member
Captiosus said:
I will just have to agree to disagree.

They've done a right shitty job with Dontos' backstory and role - the way he just appeared with a Terminator-esque, come with me or they'll kill you line was absolutely comical. They've done as little of a job as possible with establishing Petyr Baelish's role in the entire event or foreshadowing his plans for Sansa so the next few parts are going to seem completely and utterly out of place. Penny and Groat with Pretty Pig and Crunch? Their omissions are glaring considering Penny and Pretty Pig play a pretty god damn big role in Tyrion's future!

The number of omissions for the sake of television are disappointing. My wife is a TV only viewer and she had to watch the last 15 minutes three times (and then ask for explanations) to understand what happened. She thought Joffrey was choking on pie until Cersei yelled her accusation of Tyrion. That's how poorly the scenario was set up. Maybe it's book snobbery but knowing of the various poisons - including the strangler - ahead of time made this scene much more impactful and made far more sense. Now they're going to have to spend a ridiculous amount of time in the "trial" episodes going back and throwing in exposition that should have been there before the wedding.
Click to expand...

Agree on the Dontos and Penny/Groat lines. As for the pie thing, I'm pretty sure that's intentional. It's supposed to be somewhat confusing, and the natural reaction is to think he's choking on the pie. IIRC, that's even what I thought happened in the book, until they revealed later that there was nothing stuck in his throat when he died. (Qyburn or Pycelle did an autopsy I believe, can't remember all of the details though.)
 
L

LordCanti

Member
SenseiJinx said:
Agree on the Dontos and Penny/Groat lines. As for the pie thing, I'm pretty sure that's intentional. It's supposed to be somewhat confusing, and the natural reaction is to think he's choking on the pie. IIRC, that's even what I thought happened in the book, until they revealed later that there was nothing stuck in his throat.
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Him just choking on pie would almost have been better.

Almost.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
BaltimoreLarry said:
Who was Miranda from the first scene with Ramsay?
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GZBpfNl.png


Ramsay's special friend for Theon last season.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
For whatever reason, I always pictured this as outdoors. Probably due to the jousting dwarfs.

Also, nice touch the Tyrells giving a goblet as a present. Was that in the book?
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I can't believe so many people (in the other thread, twitter, etc.) are suspecting Sansa of Joffrey's murder. What has Sansa ever done that would make people believe that she's capable of something like that? lol
 
G

gnrmjd

Member
Honestly I never saw Bronn's refusal to fight the Mountain as a "betrayal". That was never a major shocker to me in the book, not anything like Shae. Why would Bronn do that? If anything it was expected, Tyrion was desperate and it was a foregone conclusion what would happen.

Maybe the show will milk it more but I would say Bronn "let down" Tyrion, not "betrayed"
 
R

rocketskates

Member
RatskyWatsky said:
I can't believe so many people (in the other thread, twitter, etc.) are suspecting Sansa of Joffrey's murder. What has Sansa ever done that would make people believe that she's capable of something like that? lol
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I mean, she's got every right to want him dead.

She just doesn't have the brains to pull anything off. Once she gets some Littlefinger in her life, she learns how the game is played.
 
B

Burt

Member
rocketskates said:
I do wonder if Shae actually got on that boat. And how she will fit into the trial and Tyrion's escape, considering they stay true to the books.

I could see them pulling off a "she actually got on the boat but when she heard her lion was arrested wanted to come see him" and that's when they are able to convince her to turn on him.
Click to expand...

I think the point of the deviation from the book is that they won't have to convince her. I may be remembering it wrong, but in the books didn't it turn out she was just playing him the whole time? I can't remember any explicit reasoning for her turning on Tyrion, and although it might have been implied that her life was at risk or she was getting paid off, it seemed to me that she just seized the opportunity to move up the ladder to Tywin.

The direction they're going with the show actually feels a lot more authentic and heartbreaking. They won't have to convince her to hurt Tyrion, because he already gave her a reason to hate him. For all we know she didn't even get caught going to the boat, she might've turned back around when she realized she had a chance to help condemn him.

It's going to be that much worse if they go through with Tyrion killing her, considering they do/did actually love each other.
 
S

Subitai

Member
Lurking in the other thread was as enjoyable as ever. They seemed to figure out it was QoT pretty quick. I forget, did they ever figure out how Tyrion's dagger found its way to Bran's room?



What a way for him to go out. Graves/GRRM weren't going to let you feel the slightest bit bad for him at all.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Lothar said:
Well they played a pretty horrible and boring role in Tyrion's future. So I was sure before that they were leaving that out. They're definitely leaving it out now.
Click to expand...
Penny plays a pretty large part in Tyrion's development, and really saves his life by helping him snap out of his self loathing, drunken stupor. But obviously the show could handle that differently. Or they could still introduce her as the sister of one of the dwarves, that would still work.

I enjoyed the episode. The Dontos stuff feels ridiculous though. Overall new viewers are going to be debating this all week (which is good) but I do feel like Dontos' re- introduction was a pretty blatant tell. Prior to this season he hasn't been seen since the Blackwater episode where he had about 2 seconds of screen time. I understand they couldn't have multiple godswood scenes between him and Sansa but from a narrative perspective he should have gotten a scene or two last season, and one more scene in S2. It just feels like the writers got caught taking a short cut.

Outside of that the only thing I didn't like was Bran. That vision scene felt really out of place. He'll get better scenes later so I'm not worried.
 
J

Jackson50

Member
gnrmjd said:
Honestly I never saw Bronn's refusal to fight the Mountain as a "betrayal". That was never a major shocker to me in the book, not anything like Shae. Why would Bronn do that? If anything it was expected, Tyrion was desperate and it was a foregone conclusion what would happen.

Maybe the show will milk it more but I would say Bronn "let down" Tyrion, not "betrayed"
Click to expand...
Bronn's always been forthright about his motivations. His services are available to the highest bidder. Cersei made him an offer he couldn't refuse. And he didn't.
 
H

Herr K

Banned
rocketskates said:
I mean, she's got every right to want him dead.

She just doesn't have the brains to pull anything off. Once she gets some Littlefinger in her life, she learns how the game is played.
Click to expand...

This is Sansa you're talking about. Sansa Stark, the one who condemned her father to death. If show watchers really believe Sansa is capable of doing something intelligent, they haven't been paying attention.
 
G

gnrmjd

Member
Jackson50 said:
Bronn's always been forthright about his motivations. His services are available to the highest bidder. Cersei made him an offer he couldn't refuse. And he didn't.
Click to expand...

Besides that though, it wasn't really a betrayal. He'd be stupid to fight the Mountain for Tyrion. Oberyn was stupid to do it too, but he had a reason besides saving Tyrion. Shae sold Tyrion out and really hurt him, but Bronn didn't do anything shocking to me. I never even saw that as a surprise in the book, it was expected. Tyrion was almost pathetic reaching out to him in that case.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
rocketskates said:
I mean, she's got every right to want him dead.

She just doesn't have the brains to pull anything off.
Click to expand...

Exactly. She doesn't have the brains nor the balls to kill Joffrey (much less covertly with intrigue and poison and whatnot). If Sansa had tried to kill Joffrey, she probably would have rushed him with a dagger while screaming "YOU KILLED MY FAMILY!!!!" or something to that effect. lol
 
S

Squid_Vicious

Member
Zoso Achilles said:
From the other thread, this really got me:
Click to expand...

Usually the "Unsullied" theories just make me roll my eyes, but this made me literally laugh out loud.

On the episode... I found it anticlimactic. This scene sets the tone for almost everything that happens in the rest of the series. The death scene in the book seemed to last forever, it was all over so quickly in the show. I'd like to believe, if I had not read the books, that I would have expected more from the death of the most hated character on television.
 
T

The Silver

Member
DrForester said:
See unlike the people suspecting Olena already (The show really did focus on her a few too many times, so I'm not surprised), that is a comment I would suspect by a stealth book reader.
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why?

I could easily see how someone could get the impression he wants to kill everyone with his own two hands instead of relying on poison.
 
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