I'm pretty sure some GRRM made some comments about Dany and Tyrion possibly not even meeting up by the end of TWOW so that is super surprising.
To be honest though, if she's going to hop on Drogon a few minutes later and fly off to have some Dothraki adventures for ages afterwards her meeting Tyrion doesn't really change... anything? It just speeds up Tyrion and Jorah's imminent switch to the Meereenese side I guess. I don't think this is that much of a divergence from the books compared to whatever's happening (or isn't) in the Iron Islands and fAegon being nowhere to be seen, or Jaime's thing.
I'm pretty sure some GRRM made some comments about Dany and Tyrion possibly not even meeting up by the end of TWOW so that is super surprising.
To be honest though, if she's going to hop on Drogon a few minutes later and fly off to have some Dothraki adventures for ages afterwards her meeting Tyrion doesn't really change... anything? It just speeds up Tyrion and Jorah's imminent switch to the Meereenese side I guess. I don't think this is that much of a divergence from the books compared to whatever's happening (or isn't) in the Iron Islands and fAegon being nowhere to be seen, or Jaime's thing.
Ohhh goddamn I forgot about this. Dany is definitely going to spend fucking seventeen chapters of the book riding around conquering khalisars isn't she? It's going to be so lame if her encounter with her old dothraki doesn't go: dragon eats someone -> they submit -> she leads them to Meereen -> she immediately sets off for Westeros.
GRR is such a knucklehead about Essos. Nobody gives a shit about the continent. We have World Ending Dark Magick bearing down on Westeros but instead of addressing that dude cares more about boring court politics among characters readers don't know or care about. Really hope the show slices right through all the Sons of the Harpy stuff. Ditching the
Sun's son
should help move things along a bit, get us the hell out of Meereen.
The potential is definitely there. It also has potential to be the worst. I will say that what we've seen of what they've chosen to cut vs. keep so far shows that at the very least they understand what the strong and weak parts of those two books are. If plots had to go, Aegon and the Greyjoys were definitely the ones to go, and they've heavily restructured Tyrion and Brienne from the looks of things, which was probably needed as well. The only changes I'm really sad about are the loss of Jaime at Riverrun, which I can totally understand why that had to go from a time/budget perspective, and the Manderly stuff, if that's really cut. It's just going to hinge on how good their writing is in the stuff they're inventing, and how well they manage to pace it. They're moving through a lot of stuff, so it's going to be difficult not to feel rushed. It would be a lot easier to feel comfortable if they had done a stronger job on their Yara and Craster's Keep plots from last season.
I agree about Yara at the very least, but there was no way in hell they'd include the Manderly's. Sorry. It's just another bloated side plot, and the reason behind it (sending Davos to Skagos) can be accomplished in other ways. Hell, he doesn't even have to go there. He can just wander around like Brienne.
As for Jaime, I think it's a needed change. And I don't think it's one that will ruin his arc. They'll have him
I think I'm done with the show...the last half of the last season was really disappointing to me. Perhaps I'll revisit it once the rest of the books are out but for now, I simply find myself wondering on the choices of the writers rather than the actual stories...I'm just not enjoying them.
I think I'm done with the show...the last half of the last season was really disappointing to me. Perhaps I'll revisit it once the rest of the books are out but for now, I simply find myself wondering on the choices of the writers rather than the actual stories...I'm just not enjoying them.
I agree about Yara at the very least, but there was no way in hell they'd include the Manderly's. Sorry. It's just another bloated side plot, and the reason behind it (sending Davos to Skagos) can be accomplished in other ways. Hell, he doesn't even have to go there. He can just wander around like Brienne.
The Manderlys show that there are severe consequences for the Red Wedding. Unless the Boltons just massacre Stannis and Wyman at the beginning of TWOW, the Manderlys may have a big role to play later. Plus "The North Remembers" would be amazing on TV.
The Manderlys show that there are severe consequences for the Red Wedding. Unless the Boltons just massacre Stannis and Wyman at the beginning of TWOW, the Manderlys may have a big role to play later. Plus "The North Remembers" would be amazing on TV.
They can accomplish Daznak's Pit by not showing it and having Joffrey's corpse telling what happens in a dark stage, who gives a shit really.
Also i don't see how the Umbers are more established than the Manderlys, the Greatjon had like 3 minutes of screen time. Of the other houses the only characters that are shown are characters that cannot be involved, having a dude act like Manderly and calling him Mormont isn't really a decision that will help anything.
I don't think it's a problem that they're cutting a bunch of stuff - but I do think it's a problem that they didn't do it sooner. For instance, if they were going to decide that the Greyjoys didn't matter, then they shouldn't have included any of them on the show to begin with. Theon (and Yara and Balon) had no place being in the series.
If you want to cut the "bloat" and do a stupidly simplistic version of the story then by all means, do that. There was never any room for the Greyjoys, Tyrells, Martells, Boltons, AND the Blackfyres, etc. on a 70 episode TV series. From the beginning, they should have just focused on the Stark vs. Lannister vs. Baratheon struggle and Daenerys and cut out everything else.
Adapting these books was/is a huge undertaking, but D&D clearly didn't plan ahead for any of this.
95% of their original meterial has been shit. Like, the only reason the show isn't completely awful is because the source material is so strong. I would dread to watch a wholly original series from D&D. It would be laughably bad.
D&D have written some great original stuff. The robert/cersei scenes, arya/tywin scenes, bronn/hound scene, brienne/hound fight, the reek/ramsay shave scene etc.
Obviously. This doesn't make it immune to criticism.
The mere fact that it has been able to stay so true to the books so far alone is a testament to the quality of the people behind it, as most adaptations diverge with very little reason.
Ahem:
- changing a consensual sex scene into rape (or, arguably, two such scenes);
- Yara's unintentionally hilarious rescue attempt;
- Jon Snow's overall awful arc in S2 and the butchering of Qhorin Halfhand;
- Ros;
- WHEREAREMAHDRAGONZ;
- Talisa;
- Shae;
- neutering Catelyn and Osha;
- whitewashing Tyrion (and subsequently butcher Tywin's murder scene and his relationship with Jaime);
- fireballing skeletons;
- Grey Worm and Missandei;
So much bad diversions, I could fill a big, big list. Most of those are absolutely without reason, too. WHEREAREMAHDRAGONZ had the "they needed to make Dany's arc more exciting!" reason that usually gets trotted out, but it's still a failure in execution.
(but I only agree agree with you about the robert/cersei scene. The bronn/hound scene and the brienne/hound fight were awful and the very definition of fan fiction. arya/tywin was cute for 5 seconds but they stupidly dragged that out for a whole season)
WHEREAREMAHDRAGONZ had the "they needed to make Dany's arc more exciting!" reason that usually gets trotted out, but it's still a failure in execution.
This one was so bad. I could maybe understand wanting to change Dany's storyline from ACOK since there are some who felt it dragged, but that was what they came up with instead? lmao
Ahem:
- changing a consensual sex scene into rape (or, arguably, two such scenes);
- Yara's unintentionally hilarious rescue attempt;
- Jon Snow's overall awful arc in S2 and the butchering of Qhorin Halfhand;
- Ros;
- WHEREAREMAHDRAGONZ;
- Talisa;
- Shae;
- neutering Catelyn and Osha;
- whitewashing Tyrion (and subsequently butcher Tywin's murder scene and his relationship with Jaime);
- fireballing skeletons;
- Grey Worm and Missandei;
So much bad diversions, I could fill a big, big list. Most of those are absolutely without reason, too. WHEREAREMAHDRAGONZ had the "they needed to make Dany's arc more exciting!" reason that usually gets trotted out, but it's still a failure in execution.
This one was so bad. I could maybe understand wanting to change Dany's storyline from ACOK since there are some who felt it dragged, but that was what they came up with instead? lmao
Is Cogman that deeply involved? I thought he was just one of their writers. *looks up IMDB* Oh he got jumped up to "Executive story editor" (whatever that means) in S3 and Co-producer in S4, seems like. No wonder he'd get so butthurt whenever people criticized the adaptation... xD
Is Cogman that deeply involved? I thought he was just one of their writers. *looks up IMDB* Oh he got jumped up to "Executive story editor" (whatever that means) in S3 and Co-producer in S4, seems like. No wonder he'd get so butthurt whenever people criticized the adaptation... xD
I don't think it's a problem that they're cutting a bunch of stuff - but I do think it's a problem that they didn't do it sooner. For instance, if they were going to decide that the Greyjoys didn't matter, then they shouldn't have included any of them on the show to begin with. Theon (and Yara and Balon) had no place being in the series.
Nah that's wrong and I'm pretty sure you know it, theon alone is important enough. he betrayed robb and did a lot of other things befire euron and victarion were introduced. or did you think "why is this guy even in the books?" up until ASOS? I dont think so. and many consider his part in ADWD the best part of the book. plus: his role is not over yet.
theon is easily enough reason to introduce the greyjoys.
and apart from that, euron and victarion can still be introduced in season 6, when they finally start to act. I don't think they are definitely cut, yet.
Nah that's wrong and I'm pretty sure you know it, theon alone is important enough. he betrayed robb and did a lot of other things befire euron and victarion were introduced. or did you think "why is this guy even in the books?" up until ASOS? I dont think so. and many consider his part in ADWD the best part of the book. plus: his role is not over yet.
theon is easily enough reason to introduce the greyjoys.
and apart from that, euron and victarion can still be introduced in season 6, when they finally start to act. I don't think they are definitely cut, yet.
I mean, if Theon really is important to the endgame of the saga, then they could have just given him a different backstory. There was no point in introducing Pyke, Balon and Yara and opening that whole storyline up when they clearly had no interest in pursuing it any further. You either adapt the fucking thing or you don't - no half measures.
If this season is going to catch us up with ADWD, then there will be no time to introduce Euron, Victarion, the Kingsmoot, et al. in the penultimate season next year.
(but I only agree agree with you about the robert/cersei scene. The bronn/hound scene and the brienne/hound fight were awful and the very definition of fan fiction. arya/tywin was cute for 5 seconds but they stupidly dragged that out for a whole season)
Why are you throwing around this phrase as a negative against the show when it's really just some moniker for you to use every time the show does something you don't like?
It's an adaption and labeling any original scenes from the show as fan-fiction just makes you sound bitter.
I mean, if Theon really is important to the endgame of the saga, then they could have just given him a different backstory. There was no point in introducing Pyke, Balon and Yara and opening that whole storyline up when they clearly had no interest in pursuing it any further. You either adapt the fucking thing or you don't - no half measures.
If this season is going to catch us up with ADWD, then there will be no time to introduce Euron, Victarion, the Kingsmoot, et al. in the penultimate season next year.
There's absolutely no reason to completely rewrite Theon's background even if Euron/Vic are cut. These Ironborn elements have already served their purpose in the show and Theon/Yara are not done yet. I don't think you understand how much else would have to be changed in the first few seasons if the Ironborn were completely removed.
Why are you throwing around this phrase as a negative against the show when it's really just some moniker for you to use every time the show does something you don't like?
It's an adaption and labeling any original scenes from the show as fan-fiction just makes you sound bitter.
I'm labeling the original scenes that come off as fan fiction, as, well, fan fiction. Scenes like the Hound/Brienne fight scene are like something a twelve year old fan of the books would come up with while writing a story on DeviantArt: "Wouldn't it be cool if the Hound (one of the very best fighters in the series!!) came across Brienne (another one of the very best fighters!) while she was out looking for Arya? And they had a big battle? A-and what if Arya actually met Brienne and ran away anyway? And this all took place just outside the gates of the Eryie where Sansa is?!"
I mean, if Theon really is important to the endgame of the saga, then they could have just given him a different backstory. There was no point in introducing Pyke, Balon and Yara and opening that whole storyline up when they clearly had no interest in pursuing it any further. You either adapt the fucking thing or you don't - no half measures.
nah, that's just really dumb and makes no sense at all. as I said, theon alone is more than reason enough to introduce the ironborn. but at this point I just think you're trolling.
If this season is going to catch us up with ADWD, then there will be no time to introduce Euron, Victarion, the Kingsmoot, et al. in the penultimate season next year.
as i said, euron and victarion haven't really acted yet in the books, they have done nothing of any importance. if they are important to the saga's endgame, they can easily be introduced in season 6 when they actually start to act. it would make sense to introduce dorne in one season and the ironborne in the other. that would be better tv.
The way people rage about the Yara stuff makes you think it was some awful long-running plot instead of one silly scene that took up a minute of screen time. It's such a minor thing. Same with the plot hole of how Arya/Hound get away from the gates, why does this little thing drive people crazy?
There's absolutely no reason to completely rewrite Theon's background even if Euron/Vic are cut. These Ironborn elements have already served their purpose in the show and Theon/Yara are not done yet.
Sure there is. For the purpose of adapting Theon's story for the screen, why leave in all of the unnecessary "bloat" - his family, complicated backstory, new locations, etc. - when you could just weave a more convenient backstory for him? Keep the nature of his character but change the specifics to better suit the medium? Something a little better suited to the 96 total minutes of screen time he's accrued thus far over the course of the series?
Yara has no business being on the show - if they need someone to help Theon escape Winterfell or whatever, they could just make up someone new or use the Fake Arya or one of Mance's people (if they're even still doing those arcs...?) or do any number of things.
Asha is a fairly significant character in the books but Yara is irrelevant on the show, especially without the Kingsmoot and the uncles, all of which I very much doubt are going to be on the show at this point (an example of cutting the "bloat" out of Yara's storyline even though she herself is part of Theon's "bloat"), though I guess that still remains to be seen.
I don't think you understand how much else would have to be changed in the first few seasons if the Ironborn were completely excised.
nah, that's just really dumb and makes no sense at all. as I said, theon alone is more than reason enough to introduce the ironborn. but at this point I just think you're trolling.
How do you figure? Theon is important. Okay. How does that justify wasting time on a bunch of stuff that D&D have apparently dropped* half way through?
*we all make assumptions u__u
as i said, euron and victarion haven't really acted yet in the books, they have done nothing of any importance. if they are important to the saga's endgame, they can easily be introduced in season 6 when they actually start to act.
Neither has Yara or Balon and yet the show has already introduced them. If they are important to the saga's endgame, they could have easily just introduced them in season 6/7 (or even the episode of) when they actually start to act.
it would make sense to introduce dorne in one season and the ironborne in the other. that would be better tv.
The way people rage about the Yara stuff makes you think it was some awful long-running plot instead of one silly scene that took up a minute of screen time. It's such a minor thing.
How do you figure? Theon is important. Okay. How does that justify wasting time on a bunch of stuff that D&D have apparently dropped* half way through?
Neither has Yara or Balon and yet the show has already introduced them. If they are important to the saga's endgame, they could have easily just introduced them in season 6/7 (or even the episode of) when they actually start to act.
I think they were important, their relation to theon made him betray robb which was quite an important plot.
but still, there are many characters who dont do important things, I am sure you are aware of that. and euron and victarion could have been shown earlier, yes. but at that point the show is overloaded with characters and many viewers have problems with that. so ist much better to introduce them later, when they are actually important.
I don't think it's a problem that they're cutting a bunch of stuff - but I do think it's a problem that they didn't do it sooner. For instance, if they were going to decide that the Greyjoys didn't matter, then they shouldn't have included any of them on the show to begin with. Theon (and Yara and Balon) had no place being in the series.
If you want to cut the "bloat" and do a stupidly simplistic version of the story then by all means, do that. There was never any room for the Greyjoys, Tyrells, Martells, Boltons, AND the Blackfyres, etc. on a 70 episode TV series. From the beginning, they should have just focused on the Stark vs. Lannister vs. Baratheon struggle and Daenerys and cut out everything else.
Adapting these books was/is a huge undertaking, but D&D clearly didn't plan ahead for any of this.
Part of me agrees with you, but if they'd have done a less literal adaptation they would've caught even more shit for it (and GRRM wouldn't have allowed it). As it stands though it often feels like they include enough details for it to bog down the story, but not enough for them to pay off in interesting ways. As for the new scenes, the problem I have with a lot of them is that they tend to not fit, either it's in terms of plot or character.
But hey, nothing's perfect, I have lots of complaints about the books as well.
Former Dr Feelgood guitarist Wilko Johnson has said he has been "cured" of the terminal pancreatic cancer with which he was diagnosed in 2012.
The 67-year-old was initially given 10 months to live after rejecting chemotherapy, but had radical surgery to remove the tumour earlier this year.
"It was an 11-hour operation," he said at the Q Awards in London.
"This tumour weighed 3kg - that's the size of a baby," he continued. "Anyway, they got it all. They cured me."
The guitarist went on his "farewell tour" in 2013 and recorded an album with The Who's Roger Daltrey.
"I thought that was going to be the last thing I ever did," he told BBC News entertainment correspondent Colin Paterson after the ceremony on Wednesday.
Wow, all this negativity is surprising for me.
I never read the books and watched the whole show this year so this is my first time entering this thread.
I can understand that it might be disappointing to fans of the book if they made lots of changes or whatever, but to someone like me the show is absolutely mindblowing and definitely one of my favorites ever. As much as you might disagree with the direction they're taking vs the books, on its own it's a fantastic show.
