Okay the Iron Islands are gone, no surprise considering they've never been a big focus aside from Theon and Asha. Stannis' storyline in the North will probably be cut down a lot. Maybe they'll even skip straight to the Battle of Winterfell this season. Or they'll save that for season 6 and have the Battle of Mereen this season. Either way they're skipping ahead of the books so it'll be nice to see what happens. Can't see what else they'll have for episode 9.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Gabriel_Logan
Member
I always wanted to see a Stannis vs. Victorian 1 on 1 fight.
badcrumble
Member
That's fairly likely, I think. I suspect this season's big Episode 9 moment is going to be Cersei's walk of penitence. I'm honestly hoping it'll be one of the best acting moments in the whole show; I think it's brilliant that she refused onscreen nudity for just about the entire show because she knew this moment was coming up. It's going to take a lot of fantastic direction to make sure that it doesn't come across as titillating, nor as anything close to actual "justice" for her character; just a really sad, brutal moment of humiliation that, if anything, should gain Cersei some pity/sympathy.
I think the Battle of Meereen is likely to happen from a spectacle point of view; however, I actually don't really expect a big Battle of Winterfell episode, to be honest. The business going on there is much, much less about the actual mechanics of the battle and more about what's going on with certain characters around the edges of it, and it doesn't seem particularly militarily interesting.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Wait, really? That's impressive.
Yeah, Lena has said in the past that remaining clothed and dignified for five whole seasons will create a much bigger impact when she's eventually stripped. I'm not sure how much of it was her own idea, but she's certainly been supportive of the decision.
Steelyuhas
Member
It's a nice way for the TV show to keep the subtext from the book about Cersei maintaining the allusion of beauty and youth through her position of power, which of course all comes crashing down with the walk.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Mad respek for Lena.
I can actually see them doing the Battle for Winterfell without Marshall, just everything will either be off screen, shrouded by the blizzard or happen on a small scale within the castle.
biosnake20
Member
So what do you guys think of the theory that the show will make Trystane their Aegon?
I think it'd be thematically interesting if there was a son of Rhaegar hidden in the north and the south of Westeros by prominent houses.
I think it'd be thematically interesting if there was a son of Rhaegar hidden in the north and the south of Westeros by prominent houses.
Yeah I read that the other day and I really liked the idea.
TheNamesPlissken
Neo Member
It would work, but probably cheapens the Jon reveal to be honest.
Plus, Aegon is clearly, clearly not a real Targ. I think the point may be that it doesn't matter, but in actual terms, he's not. The people who know this the best though (Tywin, Elia, Rhaegar, Aerys, Ned, The mountain, etc.) are all dead, so who is to argue otherwise.
Plus, Aegon is clearly, clearly not a real Targ. I think the point may be that it doesn't matter, but in actual terms, he's not. The people who know this the best though (Tywin, Elia, Rhaegar, Aerys, Ned, The mountain, etc.) are all dead, so who is to argue otherwise.
PhoenixDark
Banned
The point of Aegon is also that he looks like a Targaryen, even though he isn't. Trystane on the other hand...
MiamiWesker
Member
A lot of times these theories go way over my head when reading. Why is Aegon clearly not a real Targ?
Moff
Member
well he does look a bit like jon snow, I could imagine they would feel it's fine to make rhaegars kids black haired for the show to make it a bit simpler.
He isn't? We do not know yet. For all we know Jon Snow turns out be just a bastard.
Lots of little hints and foreshadowing. The story the septon on the road tells about a black dragon (Targaryen) sign falling into a river and coming out red (Blackfyre). The clothes that Tyrion remarks Illyrio has had for so long, and that look like a child's. Illyrio's wife having Blackfyre traits. The Golden Company being founded to put a Blackfyre on the throne, and abandoning their first contract at the behest of 'Aegon'.
I'm sure there are other hints
MiamiWesker
Member
I don't even know who the Blackfyre family is. I hardly remember anything of that book.
You referring to the Blackfyre theory? Quite a few hints for that one, a bit of foreshadowing, but it's far from given.
Game of Thrones Wiki is your friend in this case.
MiamiWesker
Member
Looked it up, now i remember them.
Where did all that info come from btw? Cause that whole history is not in the main novels.
Will it be in the World of Ice and Fire book cause I am getting that.
A large amount of that lore is from the Dunk and Egg novellas
Incandenza
Banned
The Sworn Sword is pretty much the primer on the Blackfyre Rebellion.
ToyMachine228
Member
It makes about as much sense as shoving a new character in that people think is a Targaryen, but is actually from a house that no one outside of the people who've read EVERY bit of detail on aSoIaF know about. It would honestly be a lot cooler if Aegon actually was the son of Rhaegar. No matter how his arc ended, it would be a decent plot point. Anything other than actually being Rhaegar's son is just convoluted and doesn't serve the greater arc all that much.
There's no way they can do Aegon in the show, especially if he actually is a Blackfyre.
This was always my thought on the matter, but I also always thought Aegon was just a random kid that Varys found who happened to look the part. It wasn't until I got online and read theories that I saw the evidence that he's actually a Blackfyre. I still wish he was just a nobody though. I feel like that would be more thematically resonant than rehashing a century+ old conflict.
Yeah, the last two books are going to have to have like 100 pages of lore-dumping about the Blackfyres unless GRRM is just cool with requiring outside reading to get a major plot point. Sam's first two chapters in the next book are just going to be him conveniently sitting through lectures on the Blackfyre Rebellion in maester history class.
Trystane could totally be Elia's kid.
I never said I thought he was a Blackfyre. I have yet to see any strong evidence to support the theory.
ToyMachine228
Member
I'm not saying he is, or isn't. I'm just saying, regardless, unless he actually turns out to be Rhaegar's son, I don't think he's that significant of a character. He'll play some role in a few characters' storylines to be certain, but I don't think he's going to be a major end game player unless he really turned out to be Rhaegar's son.
I am pretty confident that Aegon will take the throne in TWOW. This is mainly based off of evidence from ADWD: Dany's dragons killed Quentyn so naturally, Doran will seek another Targ. JonCon says he has "friends in the Reach". My guess is that his friends are the Tarlys, who will turn against the Tyrells and cripple their military strength.
Also, Varys undermining the Lannister/Tyrell alliance and the unpredictability of the faith ("the time is not yet right" to annoint Tommen) seem to lean things in Aegon's favor.
The real importance is what happens afterwords: Do people find out the truth? Does he live? Does JonConn live? Does Dany return? What about Littlefinger? Another idea I have is Littlefinger marrying Sansa to Aegon, then killing him like Joffrey. . .
DKehoe
Member
Fair point, Bealor Breakspear from Dunk & Egg was half Targ and half Martell and he had dark hair. Trystane as Aegon would be kind of odd though.
ToyMachine228
Member
Let's not forget that according to Melisandre, Stannis WILL sit the Iron Throne. It may be for a very short period of time, but if she is to be believed, he will sit on the Iron Throne. Even if he is not Azor Ahai, which I don't think any of us believe. They're too separate prophecies.
To me, Aegon does grant a add another interesting angle to the conflict, but it also feels like a late game addition that GRRM didn't plan for until after he got past aSoS and realized he needed to add new characters and plot lines once he realized he was moving from three to seven books. And because of that, I don't think he has a place in the "true" end game.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Not if he follows through with his plan to marry her to Harry and rally the North in her name.
It's just...too convenient to marry her to Aegon.
Last Hearth
Member
I'm pretty convinced that Sansa is going to marry whoever ends up on the Iron Throne (it won't be Dany). It's too War of the Roses (with Sansa as Elizabeth York) and really it's the only way to bring the North back into the fold.
I don't think there's any way the Harry plan goes into motion. Every time somebody outlines a plan, it almost never succeeds.
More importantly, the series has had so many coincidences happen: Tywin just happening to be in a position vulnerable enough for Tyrion to kill him, Stannis arriving as Jon and Mance are talking, the whole sequence of events involving Oberyn which led him from secondary to his brother to in a position to take revenge on the person he has always wanted dead, in a duel, and Dany just happening to find the Dothraki with Drogon, etc.
I just think Sansa marrying Aegon would make sense, even if it's a bit too coincidental. But look at the irony in it: two key characters brought about by Varys and Littlefinger, two rivals, are now joined together. Plus, by offing Aegon, who doesn't have any heirs, Littlefinger would effectively put Sansa in control as Queen Regent (I don't think Connington will last long). Though I am most likely completely wrong.
Oberyn wasn't a coincidence though. His fight with the Mountain was just moved up because of the false accusation of Tyrion murdering Joffrey. Oberyn most likely poisoned Tywin and would have gotten himself arrested and then he would've demanded Trial by Combat. Cersei would've gotten Gregor to fight the duel any way. That fight was happening one way or the other.
That's interesting. Littlefinger does have control of the Vale, possibly the North as well unless Stannis rallies them to his cause first. He'll probably want either Aegon or Dany on the throne. The current leadership would want Sansa dead. Littlefinger has to screw up eventually though.
ToyMachine228
Member
I think Littlefinger's downfall, WILL be Sansa. She will betray him once she gets to where she wants to be. Which may or may not be Queen of Westeros. Also, can we all agree that Dany will not sit on the Iron Throne in the end? In my mind, that would be the perfect ending for her. She gets to Westeros and finds out that everyone rejects her and no one wants her to rule.
Except Vic and Euron and Aegon.
If all of Stannis' stuff in the North comes to fruition though, Littlefinger may be sort of forced to. If Stannis wins the North and restores Rickon to Winterfell and ends up marching South, that's pretty much Littlefinger's worst case scenario. All his scheming is for nothing if it suddenly turns out that Rickon is heir, not Sansa. And Stannis is pretty much the worst possible king for Littlefinger. At best, Stannis would strip away anything he was granted by the Lannisters, and he would be left with just his influence in the Vale and no influence at court. Worst case is Stannis decides he wants him dead.
At that point, Littlefinger has to find an alternative to back who can delegitimize Stannis and his Rickon. The Lannisters are probably in freefall at that point, so it has to be Aegon.
I actually think the show's version of the House of the Undying was pretty accurate here. She approaches the throne only after it's been brought to ruin, and never manages to touch it. I could see her literally dying in the throne room, but before she ever sits the throne.
Yep. I think that in the end, nobody will sit the Iron Throne. The wildfire caches are a massive Chekhov's gun: Either they will be ignited accidentally due to one of Dany's dragons or purposefully in order to stop the Others. Kings Landing will be destroyed, hundreds of thousands will die, and snow will cover the remains of the city.
I can just see Dany approaching the Throne, bleeding to death, crawling toward it as she slowly dies, and her arc ending with her death directly in front of the throne, before she is ever able to sit upon it.
ToyMachine228
Member
I hope that she is basically proven to be a self righteous nut job who had everything wrong in the end too. I'm sick of all the "Omg, Kalheesi is such a boss ass bitch" show viewers.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I want the show to touch on her slowly going mad next season. But I doubt it will happen.
Doubtful. The showrunners are in love with her character.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Next season? I don't think she starts going mad, more like she is questioning weather she wants Peace or War, Hizdahr or Darrio. At the the end of book 5 it appears she has made her decision, even though the peace was real.
I think Aegon will marry Sansa, or will be betrothed at least. With my main evidence here: http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1vsuxb/spoilers_all_the_tourney_at_ashford_and_sansas/ As well as the face that Cersei will become undone by a Queen younger and more beautiful than her, which she thinks to be Maragery, and would be very ironic if it is Sansa. One of the issues I see, is Aegon could also marry Arriane.
The thing about all of this, is that I am wondering what will happen to Cersei and King's Landing. Cersei has been foreshadowed to becoming a Mad Queen and destroying King's Landing with all of the wildfire buried underneath, this will also finally push Jamie over the edge and complete his arc, by killing his sister, for he is probably the volunquar. The problem with this is wondering when it will happen, since it seems Aegon is set to rule, which means Tommen is probably dead, and likely Myrcella. He also has to rule, and we have to have Dance with Dragons 2.0 and Danerys being there to be set up at the main Antagonist with her savage followers, including Ironborn, Dotharki, and her Unsullied.
In order for all of this to happen, along with Stannis and the Northern plot, as well as fitting in puzzles of other wandering characters (Sam and Arya). The Winds of Winter is going to have to move at a very fast pace, like A Storm of Swords, which is possible, but doubtful, since there are still two battles to take place, as well as set up The Sand Snakes and Arriane for King's Landing.
I dunno, they kind of touched on it last season with the scene where she has sex with Daario and then immediately decides that everyone in Yunkai must die, only to be talked out of it by Jorah. Then the next episode she sends Jorah away. I think that's pretty ominous. I also think they played the crucifixion scene more darkly than the book, with her smugly looking down on the city to the sound of screams.
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