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[Basileus777]

Even in the books Varys is full of shit and is being setup to have his plans blow up in his face. The silly speech he gives to Kevan is something clearly written to be subverted.

why would he not want viserys on the throne? what do we know about varys?
I for one, believe him. I think he is one of the few truly good men in westeros.
he wants stability for the realm. he does not care if a targaryen or fake targaryen sits on the throne as long as they can hold together the realm peacefully. and since this game is very unpredictable, he had 2 aces up his sleeve in the books. but only 1 in the show. I don't see the problem. quite the contrary actually since the faegon plot turned out to be bad in the books.

I admit that varys advising robert to kill dany does not make sense, but it doesnt make sense in both the book and the show. so he was either lying to the council or changed his mind after viserys died.

If he wanted stability he would have kept Robert alive. His actions are not consistent with someone who actually cares for the realm over who is ruling it. Varys isn't much different from Littlefinger when it comes to morals, he's just better at hiding it. Though I think show Varys might be more genuine than his counterpart in the books.

 

[NuffDREW4two]

Isn't she also broke? An acting break might not be a good idea then.

I wasn't aware of that. It would totally make sense for her to stick around in that case. I suppose her pregnancy announcement aligning with the release of someone dying could be a bit of a red herring. I wouldn't put it past them.

Edit: I suppose they could work it into the show and have her lose the baby with a stillborn or SIDS. It would create some parallels between Cersei and Dany, but instead of being motivated like Dany, Cersei just delves deeper into madness. This in fanfic GOLD, I tells ya.

 

[Moff]

If he wanted stability he would have kept Robert alive. His actions are not consistent with someone who actually cares for the realm over who is ruling it. Varys isn't much different from Littlefinger when it comes to morals, he's just better at hiding it. Though I think show Varys might be more genuine than his counterpart in the books.

it's not only about robert himself. he had a stable reign. but varys knew after robert there would be chaos and war. something littlefinger desires, but not varys.
the targaryen dynasty is what would have provided a stable realm for a long time to come, or at least it's varys' best bet, and I agree. I think varys is genuine, he hasnt given me a reason to doubt him and I would honestly be surprised and disappointed if something else would be revealed in the final two books.

and I actually think show varys is the one who is less genuine, mainly because of the scene with the wizard in the box. that's not something I'd see book varys do. its 100% egoistic.

 

[Iksenpets]

Right, it would have to be several episodes before Kevan.

Pretty sure the walk is confirmed for ep10. Hardhome in 8, Daznak in 9, and walk in 10 is what I think's been pinned down.

It really means nothing imo. She was pregnant for most of Season 1 filming.

Yeah, and she's giving birth in summer. They'll just schedule filming so that her stuff films in the fall after she gives birth. They always have to schedule around some things like that. There will be plenty of other things to film during the month or two of filming when she'll be visibly pregnant.

 

[bengraven]

No, Hardhome is their big battle this year. Like Blackwater and Castle Black, it will likely be episode 8.

I would prefer it done sooner, though. It makes zero sense for being in the show. Jon is stabbed BECAUSE he wants to go to Hardhome. If he in fact makes it in the show, what other reason will they come up with to have him stabbed? Slint? Thorne?

 

[Moff]

castle black was episode 9
the mountain and the viper was episode 8

hardhome will be a battle gainst the others, right?

 

[Basileus777]

IIRC that behind the scenes video confirmed that the Hardhome set is in episodes 7 and 8.

 

[CoolOff]

This account has started putting up the S4 extras:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCls_bxfr_xrPR5ytmpHidrQ

 

[Iksenpets]

No, Hardhome is their big battle this year. Like Blackwater and Castle Black, it will likely be episode 8.

I would prefer it done sooner, though. It makes zero sense for being in the show. Jon is stabbed BECAUSE he wants to go to Hardhome. If he in fact makes it in the show, what other reason will they come up with to have him stabbed? Slint? Thorne?

Jon is stabbed because he wants to go south to Winterfell. He had already sent a rescue operation to Hardhome, and it had failed. All they're doing is restructuring so that Jon leads the earlier rescue attempt himself, instead of sending Cotter Pyke. Then he can get back to Castle Black and the Pink Letter sequence can play out either at the end of the season or at the beginning of next. I think the change is mostly just want them to have something with some action for Jon to do prior to the stabbing, instead of a lot of negotiating and counting cheese wheels.

 

[Steelyuhas]

In terms of last scene, they have to end with the "winter" scene, right?

 

[Paganmoon]

"For the Watch" would be great final words, but it's going to be hell keeping Jon's inevitable resurrection in season 6 under wraps though, so they might not do it at end of season maybe end of ep 9?

Also, they'll probably muck it up by changing the line anyway.

 

[Basileus777]

Jon is stabbed because he wants to go south to Winterfell. He had already sent a rescue operation to Hardhome, and it had failed. All they're doing is restructuring so that Jon leads the earlier rescue attempt himself, instead of sending Cotter Pyke. Then he can get back to Castle Black and the Pink Letter sequence can play out either at the end of the season or at the beginning of next. I think the change is mostly just want them to have something with some action for Jon to do prior to the stabbing, instead of a lot of negotiating and counting cheese wheels.

There might not be a pink letter. Jon's men could turn on him for several reasons, it doesn't have to play out the same as the books, especially given that we don't even know if there is a fake-Arya plot in the show.

 

[foxtrot3d]

why would he not want viserys on the throne? what do we know about varys?
I for one, believe him. I think he is one of the few truly good men in westeros.
he wants stability for the realm. he does not care if a targaryen or fake targaryen sits on the throne as long as they can hold together the realm peacefully. and since this game is very unpredictable, he had 2 aces up his sleeve in the books. but only 1 in the show. I don't see the problem. quite the contrary actually since the faegon plot turned out to be bad in the books.

I admit that varys advising robert to kill dany does not make sense, but it doesnt make sense in both the book and the show. so he was either lying to the council or changed his mind after viserys died.

No way man, I used to think that until I started to really think about his actions and understood everything he has done. First, if he truly wanted stability for the realm why would he help foster Aegon in Essos as well as helping support Viserys and Daenerys alongside Illyrio for years? Robert may have been a drunken sot but the realm was at peace during his rule so why the need to foster potential usurpers to the throne which would only cause rebellion and war down the road?

Well, maybe you say he is a Targaryten supporter and that's why he's doing this except that doesn't seem right either. Remember, it was Varys who constantly filled King Aerys ear with talks of treason and traitors feeding his paranoia. And, when Rhaegar and many other lords saw that Aerys was losing his grip and that perhaps Rhaegar should quietly push him from the throne it was Varys that informed Aerys of this plot leading him to turn up at the Great Tourney at Harrenhal where Lyanna Stark was eventually crowned Queen of Love and Beauty. Then there is the fact that he went along with the plot to assassinate Daenerys and in addition never informed Viserys or Daenerys that Aegon was alive.

Also, call me crazy but I don't think people that cut the tongues out of children and then sticks them in dankly, small, dark, cramped, and hidden passageways in the Red Keep are good guys.

 

[graffix13]

"For the Watch" would be great final words, but it's going to be hell keeping Jon's inevitable resurrection

Curious...but why not just perma-kill Jon?

I have read people mention that killing him in the books would be bad writing, but to kill him in the show?

I mean, I hope it doesn't happen but is there anything preventing that?

 

[kirblar]

Jon's stabbing may be saved for S6, simply to avoid the cliffhanger.

 

[biosnake20]

The House Martell Lore video confirms that the show also has the Dornish law that allows a women to be an heir if she is the first born.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

In show context, it doesn't really make any sense. Varys basically says they have to kill Dany for the good of the realm in the show. He did tell Jorah though, but could he have known that Jorah would have prevented it? At this point, Dany is really nothing, just a tool to get Viserys a dothraki army. I can't imagine Varys wanting Viserys on the throne, or predicting what Dany would become.

Honeslty though, in the book it's a bit ambiguous about what he wants for Dany. Does he want to team up Aegon and Dany? Hoping she invades Westeros and sucks at ruling ala their Viserys plan 2.0? FIND OUT IN THE WINDS OF WINTER COMING 2020

I think it makes sense.

In the show till date, Varys has been the one who wants order, he doesn't want Chaos.

When we start in Season 1, Robert is King, Kingdom is in no turmoil, North is with the realm. Everything is pretty much fine. At that time, Dany and her presence was a threat to this if not immediately than at some point in the future.

Since then, Robert has died, North has had a rebellion, Jeoffrey proved to be a terrible and knowing that Tommen is also of the same blood as Jeoff he can't expect much better there. At some point it looked like he may go to bat for Tyrion/Tywin at least keeping the King in line and being defacto rulers but even that is gone.

There really is nobody left for him to Support.

 

[Woorloog]

Curious...but why not just perma-kill Jon?

I have read people mention that killing him in the books would be bad writing, but to kill him in the show?

I mean, I hope it doesn't happen but is there anything preventing that?

I figure he is going to be an essential figure in the end. The Ice, you see (sure, the Others are that as well but whatever).

 

[Moff]

No way man, I used to think that until I started to really think about his actions and understood everything he has done. First, if he truly wanted stability for the realm why would he help foster Aegon in Essos as well as helping support Viserys and Daenerys alongside Illyrio for years? Robert may have been a drunken sot but the realm was at peace during his rule so why the need to foster potential usurpers to the throne which would only cause rebellion and war down the road?

I don't think there was any dangers in that, they were prisoners until they were used and could easily have been killed. but my guess is that varys knew he needed targaryens the moment he made the usurpers kill aerys.
and as I said, roberts rule was stable, but varys knew after his death the realm would tear itself apart, which is exactly what happened. because they do not know who should rule. it's all about "Power resides where men believe it resides." that's why he prepared targaryens. and a fake targaryen as a backup plan, it's obvious why he kept them separate.

When we start in Season 1, Robert is King, Kingdom is in no turmoil, North is with the realm. Everything is pretty much fine. At that time, Dany and her presence was a threat to this if not immediately than at some point in the future.

but he and illyrio released dany and viserys, why?
why release them and then plan to kill them? it doesn't make sense either way. he was simply lying to the council, hoping jorah would protect her.
he really can't defend dany when he was the one to save her, not with other players like littlefinger on the very same council.

 

[bengraven]

Jon is the song of ice and fire.

Stark and Targ.

Jon is stabbed because he wants to go south to Winterfell. He had already sent a rescue operation to Hardhome, and it had failed. All they're doing is restructuring so that Jon leads the earlier rescue attempt himself, instead of sending Cotter Pyke. Then he can get back to Castle Black and the Pink Letter sequence can play out either at the end of the season or at the beginning of next. I think the change is mostly just want them to have something with some action for Jon to do prior to the stabbing, instead of a lot of negotiating and counting cheese wheels.

That's right, thanks. Dance is the only book in the series I haven't read twice and it's been a long time. I should really get to it. Especially with them covering Dance stuff this year.

 

[Iksenpets]

There might not be a pink letter. Jon's men could turn on him for several reasons, it doesn't have to play out the same as the books, especially given that we don't even know if there is a fake-Arya plot in the show.

Possible, but it would suck to lose a scene as iconic as that, and to basically turn Jon's death into a repeat of Mormont's.

Jon is the song of ice and fire.

Stark and Targ.



That's right, thanks. Dance is the only book in the series I haven't read twice and it's been a long time. I should really get to it. Especially with them covering Dance stuff this year.

Man, I really meant to do a reading of the combined version of Feast and Dance before season 5, but there's no way I'm getting to it at this point.

 

[foxtrot3d]

I don't think there was any dangers in that, they were prisoners until they were used and could easily have been killed. but my guess is that varys knew he needed targaryens the moment he made the usurpers kill aerys.
and as I said, roberts rule was stable, but varys knew after his death the realm would tear itself apart, which is exactly what happened. because they do not know who should rule. it's all about "Power resides where men believe it resides." that's why he prepared targaryens. and a fake targaryen as a backup plan, it's obvious why he kept them separate.



but he and illyrio released dany and viserys, why?
why release them and then plan to kill them? it doesn't make sense either way. he was simply lying to the council, hoping jorah would protect her.
he really can't defend dany when he was the one to save her, not with other players like littlefinger on the very same council.

I don't buy that, Varys has had plenty of opportunities over the decades to ensure that peace continued and instead chose paths that led to more chaos or were simply contradictory. For instance, when he spoke with Illyrio in the dungeons beneath the Red Keep about Daenery's coming across the Narrow Sea this was done while Robert was still ALIVE. But, even more confusing is the fact that he makes efforts that would actually make the realm more stable and able to combat her when she invaded, such as suggesting Ned be sent to the Wall. Afterall, why was Varys so wild and upset that Ned was beheaded when this action would only increase tension and infighting in the Kingdoms making it easier for Danerys to take over? I forget who it was that said it was the one time Varys seemed surprised by an action.

I don't think we have any idea what game Varys is playing or what his ultimate goal is, the man's loyalties seems to change on a dime and his plans often seem to contradict each other.

 

[badcrumble]

I don't buy that, Varys has had plenty of opportunities over the decades to ensure that peace continued and instead chose paths that led to more chaos or were simply contradictory. For instance, when he spoke with Illyrio in the dungeons beneath the Red Keep about Daenery's coming across the Narrow Sea this was done while Robert was still ALIVE. But, even more confusing is the fact that he makes efforts that would actually make the realm more stable and able to combat her when she invaded, such as suggesting Ned be sent to the Wall. Afterall, why was Varys so wild and upset that Ned was beheaded when this action would only increase tension and infighting in the Kingdoms making it easier for Danerys to take over? I forget who it was that said it was the one time Varys seemed surprised by an action.

I don't think we have any idea what game Varys is playing or what his ultimate goal is, the man's loyalties seems to change on a dime and his plans often seem to contradict each other.

His conversation with Illyrio makes it sound as though he wants the realm kept stable *until* the Targaryen (and probable Blackfyre) armies are ready, and then he wants to cut the legs out from under the current regime. Lots of talk about how things are destabilizing "too soon."

 

[bengraven]

Possible, but it would suck to lose a scene as iconic as that, and to basically turn Jon's death into a repeat of Mormont's.



Man, I really meant to do a reading of the combined version of Feast and Dance before season 5, but there's no way I'm getting to it at this point.

I might be able to pull that off, but there's just so much I want to read right now.

I think I might do just that. And probably skip the Greyjoy chapters because fuck it, B and B did.

 

[Steelyuhas]

His conversation with Illyrio makes it sound as though he wants the realm kept stable *until* the Targaryen (and probable Blackfyre) armies are ready, and then he wants to cut the legs out from under the current regime. Lots of talk about how things are destabilizing "too soon."

Yeah that's how I've always interpreted it as well.

 

[Moff]

His conversation with Illyrio makes it sound as though he wants the realm kept stable *until* the Targaryen (and probable Blackfyre) armies are ready, and then he wants to cut the legs out from under the current regime. Lots of talk about how things are destabilizing "too soon."

exactly, of course he didnt expect everything to go down so soon, otherwise he would have "released" dany and viserys much earlier so their armies would be ready when robert is dead.

that's one reason why he didnt want ned to die so soon
PLUS I think it's the same reason why he freed tyrion. he didnt do that to have an instructor for aegon, he did it because he respected tyrion, he was a good man, just like ned. he genuinely respected and liked him.

 

[badcrumble]

exactly, of course he didnt expect everything to go down so soon, otherwise he would have "released" dany and viserys much earlier so their armies would be ready when robert is dead.

that's one reason why he didnt want ned to die so soon
PLUS I think it's the same reason why he freed tyrion. he didnt do that to have an instructor for aegon, he did it because he respected tyrion, he was a good man, just like ned. he genuinely respected and liked him.

I think it's a bit of both. Tyrion's not a good man "like Ned," though - he's a pretty bad man by Ned's standards. He's a much, much more competent administrator than Ned, though, and exactly the sort of person you want to be able to support your new regime.

Aegon's got all the strategists and tutors he needs, but he needs someone who could help him rule. Tyrion's probably the most competent Hand of the King we've seen in the series (arguably moreso than his dad).

 

[Faddy]

Is Varys actually that smart. We know he has his spy network and is on the small council but since the start of the books he gets bested over and over by Littlefinger.

Looking at the show because this is a show thread.

Season 1: He fails to keep Ned out of the clutches of the Lannisters which starts the war which he should be against for the good of the realm.

Season 2: He helps Tyrion repel Stannis but ultimately Baelish makes the gain in trust and alliances by bringing the Tyrells into the fold.

Season 3: He tries to make an alliance with Olenna Tyrell over Sansa but doesn't realize she is plotting with Littlefinger and she has Tywin in her pocket

Season 4: He is at the kiddy table while Baelish kills the king. He will also face consequences from helping Tyrion escape.

He is in a far worse position in terms of influence from the start of the series. Not to mention the debacle recruiting Ros. While Lord Baelish of Harrenhal and Lord protector of the Vale seems to have everything go his way.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Is Varys actually that smart. We know he has his spy network and is on the small council but since the start of the books he gets bested over and over by Littlefinger.

Looking at the show because this is a show thread.

Season 1: He fails to keep Ned out of the clutches of the Lannisters which starts the war which he should be against for the good of the realm.

Season 2: He helps Tyrion repel Stannis but ultimately Baelish makes the gain in trust and alliances by bringing the Tyrells into the fold.

Season 3: He tries to make an alliance with Olenna Tyrell over Sansa but doesn't realize she is plotting with Littlefinger and she has Tywin in her pocket

Season 4: He is at the kiddy table while Baelish kills the king. He will also face consequences from helping Tyrion escape.

He is in a far worse position in terms of influence from the start of the series. Not to mention the debacle recruiting Ros. While Lord Baelish of Harrenhal and Lord protector of the Vale seems to have everything go his way.

Are we talking books or show? Because Varys got what he wanted in GoT. Illyrio wanted to delay plans for war since Drogo wouldn't do anything before his son was born, Varys argued it was the perfect time to start their plans. I truly believe Varys greenlit the Dany assassination as a gamble that it would stir Drogo into action.

 

[eot]

Even in the books Varys is full of shit and is being setup to have his plans blow up in his face. The silly speech he gives to Kevan is something clearly written to be subverted.

I still haven't made up my mind on whether he was being truthful or not. Sure, Kevan was dying but an exposition dump from Varys of all people feels out of place. It'll be even sillier if they keep the scene but make it about Dany instead though.

 

[foxtrot3d]

exactly, of course he didnt expect everything to go down so soon, otherwise he would have "released" dany and viserys much earlier so their armies would be ready when robert is dead.

that's one reason why he didnt want ned to die so soon
PLUS I think it's the same reason why he freed tyrion. he didnt do that to have an instructor for aegon, he did it because he respected tyrion, he was a good man, just like ned. he genuinely respected and liked him.

I don't buy it, and I believe he is playing Tyrion like everyone else. He knew the whole time what Shae truly was and let Tyrion go on believing, and I'm convinced he intended for Tyrion to kill Tywin. And, his handling of Rhaegar and Aerys shows he's not some loyal Targaryen supporter. Now, it could well be he's actually a secret Blackfyre and thus would explain why he favors Aegon, but I just don't see it. Whatever game he is playing is just too deep and confusing for us to understand at the moment.

I also think the same thing about Littlefinger, we still have no true idea what he really wants in the end.

 

[badcrumble]

Is Varys actually that smart. We know he has his spy network and is on the small council but since the start of the books he gets bested over and over by Littlefinger.

Looking at the show because this is a show thread.

Season 1: He fails to keep Ned out of the clutches of the Lannisters which starts the war which he should be against for the good of the realm.

Season 2: He helps Tyrion repel Stannis but ultimately Baelish makes the gain in trust and alliances by bringing the Tyrells into the fold.

Season 3: He tries to make an alliance with Olenna Tyrell over Sansa but doesn't realize she is plotting with Littlefinger and she has Tywin in her pocket

Season 4: He is at the kiddy table while Baelish kills the king. He will also face consequences from helping Tyrion escape.

He is in a far worse position in terms of influence from the start of the series. Not to mention the debacle recruiting Ros. While Lord Baelish of Harrenhal and Lord protector of the Vale seems to have everything go his way.

I honestly don't think Littlefinger and Varys have truly come into conflict yet. Littlefinger succeeded in destabilizing KL sooner than Varys had initially wished, but (especially with the removal of the five-year gap) that seems to be a nonissue. Littlefinger's scheming is mostly related to developments in the North while Varys's scheming is mostly related to developments in Essos.

 

[Sai-kun]

Game of Thrones - The Fallen A Roundtable (Season 4 Extra)

Ugh, Pedro Pascal is so dreamy. I just can't handle it. Such a chill guy.

 

[Moff]

I don't buy it, and I believe he is playing Tyrion like everyone else. He knew the whole time what Shae truly was and let Tyrion go on believing, and I'm convinced he intended for Tyrion to kill Tywin. And, his handling of Rhaegar and Aerys shows he's not some loyal Targaryen supporter. Now, it could well be he's actually a secret Blackfyre and thus would explain why he favors Aegon, but I just don't see it. Whatever game he is playing is just too deep and confusing for us to understand at the moment.

I also think the same thing about Littlefinger, we still have no true idea what he really wants in the end.

I agree, varys is not a loyal targaryen supporter and I dislike that the fandom sometimes paints him as one.
but he desires stability above all and he knew after robert there would be chaos, and that the people would accept a targaryen ruler to bring order to that chaos.

I would be very disappointed if it would turn out he had some targaryen roots in the show (or blackfyre roots in the books) because that would make him the same as anyone else, somone who only cares about himself.
I would just love it if the least trusted person in king's landing is actually the only one who only cares about what's best for the realm, and not himself. and so far I dont have a single reason not to believe that.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Littlefinger's chaos benefits Varys though. It destabilized the realm enough for Aegon to essentially waltz to the throne in TWOW. Ultimately Varys has the stronger end game, whereas Littlefinger is focused on two kingdoms - the north and the Vale. Of course Rickon fucks up the northern plan, which leaves him the Vale depending on how things go (what if Sansa betrays him).

My question: will LF figure out that Varys is behind Aegon? Surely he'll at least suspect a larger power and carefully planned strategy is supporting Aegon. If he doesn't figure it out, I could imagine him trying to marry Sansa to Aegon and thus exposing himself to getting killed; after all, Varys no longer needs LF to stir shit up, so why not get rid of him.

 

[badcrumble]

Littlefinger's chaos benefits Varys though. It destabilized the realm enough for Aegon to essentially waltz to the throne in TWOW. Ultimately Varys has the stronger end game, whereas Littlefinger is focused on two kingdoms - the north and the Vale. Of course Rickon fucks up the northern plan, which leaves him the Vale depending on how things go (what if Sansa betrays him).

My question: will LF figure out that Varys is behind Aegon? Surely he'll at least suspect a larger power and carefully planned strategy is supporting Aegon. If he doesn't figure it out, I could imagine him trying to marry Sansa to Aegon and thus exposing himself to getting killed; after all, Varys no longer needs LF to stir shit up, so why not get rid of him.

To be totally honest, I sort of suspect that GRRM's next stages as far as the Game is concerned are basically:

-death of Stannis and Tommen leads to a massive power vacuum in King's Landing with *no* legitimate heir
-Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella are all put forward as contenders for rule (War of Three Queens) while Littlefinger is able to wrap up the North undisturbed (he's got all he needs to pull the rug out from under the Boltons at his leisure, assuming they even survive Stannis and the Winterfell conspiracy)
-eventual proposed alliance/marriage between Sansa and Aegon as Littlefinger's and Varys's proxies reach roughly equal success in North and South
-Dany and Jon emerge as the ~~true~~ heirs to power or whatever

 

[biosnake20]

It's hard to imagine fAegon being cut because GRRM has pretty much confirmed that there will be a second dance of dragons. Either it's not that important or maybe Stannis is the major opposition to Dany in the second dance. He is a quarter Targaryen after all.

 

[NeoGiff]

I love that the thread is a lot more active now. Can't wait to be here when the season is actually airing. It must be crazy.

 

[bengraven]

It's hard to imagine fAegon being cut because GRRM has pretty much confirmed that there will be a second dance of dragons. Either it's not that important or maybe Stannis is the major opposition to Dany in the second dance. He is a quarter Targaryen after all.

This exactly.

I don't think the Dragons are simply going to sweep the land by her command. With two of her men alongside them. I suspect one or more of the dragons will be under someone else, someone against her, command, and I suspect Aegon to be one. He was the prince that is promised...

 

[PhoenixDark]

To be totally honest, I sort of suspect that GRRM's next stages as far as the Game is concerned are basically:

-death of Stannis and Tommen leads to a massive power vacuum in King's Landing with *no* legitimate heir
-Cersei, Margaery, and Myrcella are all put forward as contenders for rule (War of Three Queens) while Littlefinger is able to wrap up the North undisturbed (he's got all he needs to pull the rug out from under the Boltons at his leisure, assuming they even survive Stannis and the Winterfell conspiracy)
-eventual proposed alliance/marriage between Sansa and Aegon as Littlefinger's and Varys's proxies reach roughly equal success in North and South
-Dany and Jon emerge as the ~~true~~ heirs to power or whatever

Interesting. My take:

-Stannis wins his northern campaign and deposes the Boltons, but returns to the Wall upon hearing news of Jon Snow's assassination
-Cersei and Maergery win their trials and begin fighting over Tommen/the realm
-Randyl Tarly leads army to Storm's End to combat Aegon, ultimately decides to turn cloak and support Aegon in exchange for the Reach
-LF learns of Aegon. Harry The Heir and Vale knights head out to combat mountain clan raids
-Tommen is assassinated, Maergery becomes queen
- Harry The Heir is injured or killed in mountain clan campaign. LF suggests marrying Sansa to Aegon
-Aegon sacks King's Landing. Tyrells murder Myrcella in attempt to curry favor. Connington has them killed.
-LF meets with Aegon representatives to secure marriage alliance. Turns out to be a trap and LF is killed
-Aegon marries Elia Sand, despite objections from his supporters and Arianne Martell. Aegon is crowned king
-Dany lands on Dragonstone

 

[Valhelm]

It's hard to imagine fAegon being cut because GRRM has pretty much confirmed that there will be a second dance of dragons. Either it's not that important or maybe Stannis is the major opposition to Dany in the second dance. He is a quarter Targaryen after all.

I think that whole plot will be cut for time. There might be a couple winks and nods toward Aegon, but he'll never appear.

 

[Fuzzy]

I love that the thread is a lot more active now. Can't wait to be here when the season is actually airing. It must be crazy.

Once the season starts I probably won't post much until it's over this time. I'll enjoy the season more if I don't read too much negativity.

Got my S4 BR from Amazon.ca today. I'd start watching it right now but I finally got my Majora's Mask LE today also.

 

[Iksenpets]

It's hard to imagine fAegon being cut because GRRM has pretty much confirmed that there will be a second dance of dragons. Either it's not that important or maybe Stannis is the major opposition to Dany in the second dance. He is a quarter Targaryen after all.

I think Aegon can matter in the books and still be cut from the show. Since it looks like Aegon's going to form an alliance with the Martells pretty much immediately, it seems simple enough to rewrite the Dany vs. Aegon+Martells war into a Dany vs. Martells war. It doesn't have the dance of the dragons connotation, but that's probably a plus for the show, since it's way less backstory to explain. Basically everything that Aegon's going to do in conjunction with the Martells becomes something the Martells do themselves.

 

[badcrumble]

I think Aegon can matter in the books and still be cut from the show. Since it looks like Aegon's going to form an alliance with the Martells pretty much immediately, it seems simple enough to rewrite the Dany vs. Aegon+Martells war into a Dany vs. Martells war. It doesn't have the dance of the dragons connotation, but that's probably a plus for the show, since it's way less backstory to explain. Basically everything that Aegon's going to do in conjunction with the Martells becomes something the Martells do themselves.

Do we know that Dany is going to go *against* those folks, though? Remember, Aegon wants and fully intends to marry her.

 

[biosnake20]

I think Aegon can matter in the books and still be cut from the show. Since it looks like Aegon's going to form an alliance with the Martells pretty much immediately, it seems simple enough to rewrite the Dany vs. Aegon+Martells war into a Dany vs. Martells war. It doesn't have the dance of the dragons connotation, but that's probably a plus for the show, since it's way less backstory to explain. Basically everything that Aegon's going to do in conjunction with the Martells becomes something the Martells do themselves.

That's a good point. They kept around Trystane for a reason so it seems like he will take some sort of role similar to fAegon but the dance stuff will be erased.

Another interesting thing about that Conleth interview is that when the interviewer asks him about supporting Dany he just says he'll be supporting "someone". I mean the trailer makes it super obvious that it's Dany so why be coy about it? He could just be doing that to keep some shred of illusion though.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

House Martell S4 - Pedro Pascal

 

[Steelyuhas]

That's a good point. They kept around Trystane for a reason so it seems like he will take some sort of role similar to fAegon but the dance stuff will be erased.

Another interesting thing about that Conleth interview is that when the interviewer asks him about supporting Dany he just says he'll be supporting "someone". I mean the trailer makes it super obvious that it's Dany so why be coy about it? He could just be doing that to keep some shred of illusion though.

Well Illyrio basically has that conversation with Tryion in the book and it turns out fAegon may be who they really support (assuming that Illyrio and Varys are aligned).

 

[Brakke]

I love that the thread is a lot more active now. Can't wait to be here when the season is actually airing. It must be crazy.

It's bonkers. I never watch the show while it airs live so I'll check the thread Sunday morning and then Monday night after I've watched it and there'll be like 10 pages of live reactions.

 

[biosnake20]

House Martell S4 - Pedro Pascal

All the history and lore videos for S4 are here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCls_bxfr_xrPR5ytmpHidrQ

 

[Iksenpets]

It's bonkers. I never watch the show while it airs live so I'll check the thread Sunday morning and then Monday night after I've watched it and there'll be like 10 pages of live reactions.

Yeah, I can't even read the thread on Mondays during the season. I read the most recent page or two, and hope those cover the bulk of the discussion. It would be like 2 hours of reading to fully catch up on Monday.