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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Lysa is a third tier character on the show at best. She was in about 5 scenes total last season. If you are including Lysa in the panel then what about Karl Tanner, Rast and Locke
Rory McCann has 4 seasons on the main cast, Kate Dickie just doesn't compare.
bengraven
Member
"Long pig" is an old word for "human meat". Because it looks and tastes like pork, but men are "long"er than pigs when hanging to drain their blood near the fire.
That was the joke.
(I do believe it though)
BobTheFork
Member
I just wouldn't go by a discussion panel to determine his fate. Again, I think he is still in anyways. It feels like they weren't sure of his fate so they left it open until they decided what they will do and what plans the God of Death (George) has for him.
badcrumble
Member
Hmm. That makes me awfully curious about
what Sansa will get up to in his absence.
his total and deliberate abandonment of King's Landing following Joffrey's death
I could of sworn he goes back to KL in book 4 doesn't the last Sansa chapter mention him coming back from a trip it's where he mentions that Cersei is doing an amazing job destabilizing her reign and that Dany is fucking things up in Essos.
I think that trip was to the Waynwoods, not King's Landing. It's where he negotiated the Harry the Heir scheme.
badcrumble
Member
Ravens, yo.
A major point of the KL arc in AFFC and ADWD is that there's basically nobody even remotely competent at the reins of power.
The show has brought up the Iron Bank issues way earlier than the books did, though, which makes me awfully curious to see how they handle that material in this season.
biosnake20
Member
Yeah he talks about how Cersei is ruining shit faster than he thought she would.
badcrumble
Member
Pretty interesting how Littlefinger and Varys's interests align on that one, though it sounds like they wanted different *timing* for the collapse of the KL administration.
Basileus777
Member
I think it was mostly an in-joke about the scrapped time skip.
badcrumble
Member
I dunno about that. Littlefinger pretty clearly orchestrated it, but Varys ensures that it will continue at the end of ADWD.
The idea that they disagreed on timing at one point largely comes from Varys's overheard conversation with Illyrio Mopatis in AGoT when they said that things in King's Landing were moving too quickly and they needed more time.
I doubt it will be a main main character either. It will be secondary and tertiary characters, like a Bronn or a Grey Worm. Or maybe a main character in a secondary or tertiary plot line that they are cutting short relative to the books.
Another one likely is Meryn Trant or another of the Lannister lackeys, as Arya needs more people to cross off her list with the out of sequence way they have done her story. That would also be a nice touch with Arya getting revenge for Syrio.
It's too bad these two goals don't align with each other alone their a force to be reckoned with but I can't even imagine what would happen if they pooled their resources together.
badcrumble
Member
Probably the goofiest thing this series has ever done is the room full of Stannis's miscarried children floating in greenish glass jars. Such an overdone b-movie aesthetic at this point, and wildly out of character even for his crazy wife.
biosnake20
Member
biosnake20
Member
It's interesting that GRRM has recently talked to D&D and is still is thinking that the show will go beyond 7 seasons. Either they really are thinking of going beyond 7 or George is just straight up delusional.
badcrumble
Member
He's correct that the show (like most) is only renewed one or two seasons at a time.
Basically, it makes sense for the showrunners for something so heavily serialized to have a general party line that says "yes we have a plan" - this is useful for communicating with producers and actors (who definitely want to be able to know when their career's going to be freed up for next projects). HBO doesn't want to hear "we don't know when it'll end." Doesn't mean they *won't* wrap it up in 7 seasons, but saying there's a 7-season plan also isn't necessarily the truth so much as it's something that needs to be said.
GRRM's displayed a serious pattern of over-optimism, though, like vocally hoping that the show will take a hiatus to let him catch up once they reach the end of AFFC/ADWD, and lol no.
We're going to have a much more accurate picture of things by the end of this season, I think - we'll see how much of the AFFC/ADWD material they're able to churn through and how many plotlines get into their TWOW material. I strongly doubt they'll be able to wrap it up by season 7, personally, but you never know how they'll find ways to accelerate the story.
If they do S8 they're going to have to do a bunch of contract renewals that will cost HBO a pretty good chunk of money. But the "7/8/9" stuff definitely sounds different than the delusional "7 seasons and a movie!" talk, especially given that they just had a long discussion about S6.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
We actually agree on something!? o__o
I really doubt any of the important characters will die prematurely. I could easily see smaller side characters biting the bullet though, like Bronn, Grey Worm, Pod, Gilly, etc.
TWOW, GRRM. :/
badcrumble
Member
There have been some pretty notable hiccups in the show, of course, but for the most part Benioff and Weiss have done a fairly admirable job of smart abridgment in order to turn the books into something more compatible with the practical needs of shooting schedules.
And boy howdy do AFFC/ADWD need some abridgment.
Steelyuhas
Member
"Oh, I really need to finish this book" - A thought George had for the first time the other day
<3
We also both basically like A Song of Ice and Fire.
And every time either of us see GRR do anything other than write the book we both have same first thought: "why the heck aren't you writing these damn books right now, dude!".
How do you all feel about the possible changes made to the Great Northern Conspiracy arc? What with Manderly and Lady Dustin likely being cut, and the speculation that Sansa will be present in Winterfell in some shape or form? What scenes will Roose even have this year if he's not playing host to the Northern lords? There must be something going on, seeing as they're sure to play up the Stannis vs. Roose arc, and Stannis already has plenty of characters to interact with. But what? Thoughts?
All of this is speculation by the way. Nothing has been confirmed/denied.
All of this is speculation by the way. Nothing has been confirmed/denied.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Davos and Manderly interactions will be cut. It will just be Stannis vs Bolton. There will be storylines in those 2 camps. Stannis sorting out the leadership of the Night's Watch and moving south to get some lords to fight Bolton. Bolton having some lords under him that aren't all on the same page loyalty wise.
Ramsay being Ramsay.
Theon will escape with some female and Stannis will catch him.
Ramsay being Ramsay.
Theon will escape with some female and Stannis will catch him.
bengraven
Member
There's a ton of pictures of them together so........ probably.
That was the joke.
Kind of...I think I'd be disappointed if they really were just really good friends and she was dating someone. They're fucking adorable together and I love the idea of a baby Lannisnake.
I held out hope for Manderly much longer than was rational, and now that I've accepted he's gone, I've moved on to clinging to the idea that they've snuck in Umber to provide a pretty much direct proxy for the role. I just don't see how the plot works without someone there to show what the actual opinion is of the northerners, especially since season 2 and 3 already did a pretty poor job of stressing the strength of northern loyalty. Sansa in the North could be interesting I'm not immediately opposed to it but it doesn't provide that. I'm not a big believer in the more sweeping versions of the Grand Northern Conspiracy, so I don't really think anything more than a meeting with Davos, followed by going to Winterfell and being generally snarky towards the Boltons/Freys is necessary, but I'd hope to at least see that.
I think the Sansa theory would be difficult to pull off well, just because it's hard to put any character on screen with Ramsay and not have them immediately become a victim, and Sansa is supposed to be escaping victimhood. On the other hand, I think the Theon-Sansa dynamic could be really good in that scenario. Overall, I think I prefer the theories that have had Sansa taking over some aspects of the Stoneheart role, rather than sending her North. I'm not really sure if either is likely to happen though. We know so little about Sansa right now that we're all just sort of stabbing in the dark based on a few words of trailer dialogue.
bengraven
Member
So I finally read that article mentioned earlier I believe? This one?
I know some people are saying Bronn and I wonder about that, too.
I'm going to assume they will be minor characters, so I'm going over secondaries. "People will be upset" he said, especially book readers. I'm going to assume it's not a POV but if so, then probably Theon?
Yara? 2:1 on her.
Blackfish? 20:1
I know some people are saying Bronn and I wonder about that, too.
I'm going to assume they will be minor characters, so I'm going over secondaries. "People will be upset" he said, especially book readers. I'm going to assume it's not a POV but if so, then probably Theon?
Yara? 2:1 on her.
Blackfish? 20:1
I think Yara's actually pretty safe, because if they wanted her dead they'd have done it last season. Theon killing his own sister would've been too powerful a scene to pass over unless they needed her. Some future plot has her protected for now. Same with Blackfish. You don't conspicuously spare his life only to quickly off him later. Bronn best fits the bill of being a character who is both very popular and also completely superfluous to the plot.
Bronn is going to fall in love with Ellaria and get killed.
Steelyuhas
Member
Anything solid behind Sansa being present at Winterfell or just speculation based on Sansa and Winterfell being the arcs in S5 that we know little about?
I kind of think the Northern plot will remain mostly the same as the books, but with downplayed focus on Roose and the other Northern lords. Emphasis on Stannis/Ramsay/Theon content, Davos probably just stays with Stannis. Looks like no Winterfell battle, so I assume it ends at nearly the same spot as Dance, with Theon showing up at Stannis' camp.
Be interesting to see what they do with Mance (D&D pls use Ciarán Hinds!)
Walter White Walker
Member
I kind of like the idea that at the end dragons will completely torch Kings Landing. Out of the smoking ruin of the entire city there is only one survivor - Bronn the Ultimate Survivor. He'll say something very acerbic and then saunter off into legend.
I held out hope for Manderly much longer than was rational, and now that I've accepted he's gone, I've moved on to clinging to the idea that they've snuck in Umber to provide a pretty much direct proxy for the role. I just don't see how the plot works without someone there to show what the actual opinion is of the northerners, especially since season 2 and 3 already did a pretty poor job of stressing the strength of northern loyalty. Sansa in the North could be interesting — I'm not immediately opposed to it — but it doesn't provide that. I'm not a big believer in the more sweeping versions of the Grand Northern Conspiracy, so I don't really think anything more than a meeting with Davos, followed by going to Winterfell and being generally snarky towards the Boltons/Freys is necessary, but I'd hope to at least see that.
I think the Sansa theory would be difficult to pull off well, just because it's hard to put any character on screen with Ramsay and not have them immediately become a victim, and Sansa is supposed to be escaping victimhood. On the other hand, I think the Theon-Sansa dynamic could be really good in that scenario. Overall, I think I prefer the theories that have had Sansa taking over some aspects of the Stoneheart role, rather than sending her North. I'm not really sure if either is likely to happen though. We know so little about Sansa right now that we're all just sort of stabbing in the dark based on a few words of trailer dialogue.
I agree 100%, even with believing Manderly was in when it was futile. Sansa's arc this season has been kept nicely under wraps. It's nice to actually be clueless about something going into the season. Gets us ready for next year...
Nope, all of this has stemmed from Elio noticing that the aesthetic of Sansa's bathroom in the trailer is similar to that of Winterfell's chambers. But Sophie did film in typically "Northern" locations. That means nothing though, since Northern Ireland is used for so much.
Don't worry, Mance will feature appropriately. Hinds has been criminally underused so far.
Yeah, I was just thinking through what my ideal abridged-for-TV Northern plot would be, and I realized I have no idea what I would do with Mance, just because his motivations are pretty opaque right now, and I have no idea what his future in the story is. I would be ok with dropping his Winterfell material, so long as the murders happened through some other means instead, but I would still want him to get some good screentime elsewhere. I guess my ideal would be:
1. Focus on Jon's election first. Doesn't need to be much, but Sam should be given the pivotal role in his election. Stannis would offer legitimization somewhere around here, to present the choice between being Lotd of Winterfell of Lord Commander of the Watch.
2. Meanwhile, the Boltons in Winterfell find an Arya lookalike living in Winterfell and begin to plan the wedding to solidify their hold on the North. Bolton sends to Walder Frey for reinforcements to bolster himself against Stannis and the possibility of disloyal subjects.
3. Jon and Stannis meet to go over Stannis' plans for the North. Stannis demands the Wildlings so he can march on Winterfell. Jon refuses, says he needs the men, and that the Northerners won't follow him if he comes with a wildling horde at his back. Recommends that Stannis set out to prove that he cares about the Northerners' desires by taking out the last Ironborn stronghold at Deepwood Motte, and sending ambassadors to meet with key Northerners. Points out Umber as being critical.
4. Stannis sends Davos to Umber and prepares to march. Janos Slynt execution would happen right about here. I'd probably drop Mance's execution, and just have Stannis leave him in Jon's custody.
5. Davos gets to Umber. The Freys Bolton sent for have occupied the castle. Scene plays out pretty much like the Manderly scene from the book.
6. Jon gets word of the situation at Hardhome and begins working with Tormund and Mance to launch a rescue mission. Creates tension with the Watch, while also developing his camaraderie with the wildlings, which was never really developed in seasons 2 and 3. There would need to be some Jon/Mel scenes during this time, too, to build up their relationship.
7. Aemon dies at Castle Black of old age, prompting Jon's decision to send Sam to train as his replacement. No need for a plot about trying to get Aemon away from Stannis or baby swapping schemes needed. Salladhor Saan provides the trip, and can play the role of the Summer Islanders from the book if they want some version of the fat pink mast scene.
8. Umber arrives at Winterfell for the wedding along with the Freys. Theon has been spending time with the young girl who's playing the role of Arya, making sure she knows her name and all that. Umber takes up the Winterfell murder plot, as sort of a merger with Mance and the Frey pies plot. Umber and Theon can also have a confrontation to replace the hooded man scene.
9. Stannis hits Deepwood and captures Yara, who can deliver exposition on her dad dying and her jerk of an uncle taking over, to set up the Euron plot for season 6. Stannis gets word that several of the nearby Northern lords are sending troops to join him, demonstrating that Jon's gambit worked. That pretty much wraps up Stannis for the season.
10. In Winterfell, Theon can speak to Bran through the tree and be forgiven. And he sets out to get away from Ramsay and save fArya in the process. No need for Mance's role here, Theon does it on his own. Meanwhile, things come to a head with Umber's murders and violence breaks out between the Frey and Umber men, causing Bolton to send them both out to intercept Stannis. In the chaos, Theon makes his escape. End Winterfell plot for the season.
11. Jon's scene at Hardhome plays out, and he makes it back to Castle Black after the disaster. End season for Jon.
12. Bonus plot, if they want Oldtown for season 6, Sam stops in Braavos on his way to Oldtown, and briefly interacts with Arya. Jaqen ends up getting passage on Sam's same ship, setting them both up to go to Oldtown for that plot.
That sets up the Battle of Ice and For the Watch for early next season, and I think is brief enough that it could fit in the time period usually allotted to the Wall/Stannis/Theon plots.
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, but Yara's not necessarily getting Asha's plot - there's always the possibility that she'll somehow end up with Victarion's plot going forward (somehow).
People being kept alive in the show means they're being kept alive for *something* but that something might a job performed by a different character in the books. Likewise, people getting killed in the show doesn't necessarily mean they'll die in the books - it may just mean that a bigger character will absorb their storyline. GRRM's happy to have a cast of hundreds but B&W could never get away with that.
As for the Blackfish, yeah. Glad they're skipping the ultra-boring Riverrun stuff from AFFC - just keep him on the loose and the status quo is unharmed.
True, I'm just really skeptical of the Yara = Vic idea. I think Vic is just gone, replaced by Daario's boats.
Umber?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I don't. That thought hasn't crossed his mind at all.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I have so much fun crushing your dreams.:/
Davos is the real legend of Gin Alley
Steelyuhas
Member
Plz stop!
badcrumble
Member
I think if this happens, though, the Greyjoys basically cease to matter altogether outside of whatever Theon does.
I can't remember but I thought the show killed Greatjon?
EDIT: Nevermind, he wasn't at the Red Wedding.
"So with season 5 we're pretty much done with book material, you know that right?"
"Oh" he thought. Then he began to scream.
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