Lactose_Intolerant
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He finally dressed for the weather
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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He finally dressed for the weather
PhoenixDark
Banned
I can't see how Stannis won't win the upcoming battle...which kind of scares me.
Dénouement
Banned
I mean - yeah, I'd much rather have Wyman Manderly and all the Northern conspiracy stuff, and it's one of my favourite currently active plot lines in the books, but chances are high that it's cut.
And since Sansa will probably play a big role in bringing the Starks back in Winterfell, I can see why they would "give" Manderly's role to her (But I don't really think they're really giving her the role - more like cutting his role out and making the retaking of the North strictly done by the Starks).
And yeah, like bodyofanamerican said, Sansa becoming Jeyne/fArya and going through the same stuff seems so counterproductive. She's spent 4 seasons (most of which was spent having the short end of the stick) being a passive observer or her environment, rather than playing an active role in it. Leaving us with a hint that that passive Sansa is gone, only to return to her being passive and tormented again for another season or two just doesn't make sense.
Unless, yeah, she's doing it in a Margaery kind of way and is doing it to further her own position and power with the plans to overthrow Ramsay - which would tie back more to the ~she's going to Winterfell to save it~ idea.
But my current guess is LF sets up fArya just like he does in the books, tells Sansa that Arya is reportedly set to wed Ramsay who's even worse than Joffrey, which he does to make Sansa want to go to Winterfell to save/protect Arya (???), at which point he may also plant the idea that they can also return Winterfell to the Starks ("Avenge them" ????????) while they're there.
idk, I just hope LF suddenly doesn't turn into a champion for the Starks like some people seem to be theorizing (some people think it's him, not Sansa, who will play Manderly's role) and is still up to his own tricks. So I like the idea that he takes advantage of this ~new, determined~ Sansa by using fArya to get her to want to return to Winterfell to take it back.
And since Sansa will probably play a big role in bringing the Starks back in Winterfell, I can see why they would "give" Manderly's role to her (But I don't really think they're really giving her the role - more like cutting his role out and making the retaking of the North strictly done by the Starks).
And yeah, like bodyofanamerican said, Sansa becoming Jeyne/fArya and going through the same stuff seems so counterproductive. She's spent 4 seasons (most of which was spent having the short end of the stick) being a passive observer or her environment, rather than playing an active role in it. Leaving us with a hint that that passive Sansa is gone, only to return to her being passive and tormented again for another season or two just doesn't make sense.
Unless, yeah, she's doing it in a Margaery kind of way and is doing it to further her own position and power with the plans to overthrow Ramsay - which would tie back more to the ~she's going to Winterfell to save it~ idea.
But my current guess is LF sets up fArya just like he does in the books, tells Sansa that Arya is reportedly set to wed Ramsay who's even worse than Joffrey, which he does to make Sansa want to go to Winterfell to save/protect Arya (???), at which point he may also plant the idea that they can also return Winterfell to the Starks ("Avenge them" ????????) while they're there.
idk, I just hope LF suddenly doesn't turn into a champion for the Starks like some people seem to be theorizing (some people think it's him, not Sansa, who will play Manderly's role) and is still up to his own tricks. So I like the idea that he takes advantage of this ~new, determined~ Sansa by using fArya to get her to want to return to Winterfell to take it back.
Calamari41
41 > 38
This stuff seems... pretty off the rails compared to the books. I wonder if watching this season will even spoil the future books after all. I might actually be able to watch this now.
This scares the shit out of me especially in TWOW preview chapter:
Stannis speaks to Theon about all the battles he won including beating the Iron Born at sea and how the Bastard has won no battles. But, as we know every time someone gloats about their prowess or victory seems certain that person is either killed or defeated. The only solace we have is that Stannis hasn't revealed how he will beat the Boltons. Because anytime someone actually reveals their plans we know for certain they will die.
The fact that he doesn't reveal his plans and the Pink Letter is supposed to trick you into thinking he's dead give me hope that this one's headed for a happy ending for now. The Pink Letter loses something if it turns out to be totally legit. Stannis is doomed in the long run, but not yet, I think.
PhoenixDark
Banned
TWOW
There has been a lot of speculation about Stannis' response to Theon in that chapter.
The ground? said Theon. What ground? Here? This misbegotten tower? This wretched little village? You have no high ground here, no walls to hide beyond, no natural defenses.
Yet. (TWOW, Theon I)
I think Stannis will win the initial battle due to the Freys being led by a hothead/dumbass, and because Stannis is a tactical genius. Whether he leads them onto the brittle ice or does something else...I just don't see how he can lose. My big fear is that it'll be a costly victory; what if his army kills much of the Manderly force by accident for instance. And then there's the issue of the next step: taking Winterfell. That's where I think he'll get fucked...
The ground? said Theon. What ground? Here? This misbegotten tower? This wretched little village? You have no high ground here, no walls to hide beyond, no natural defenses.
Yet. (TWOW, Theon I)
I think Stannis will win the initial battle due to the Freys being led by a hothead/dumbass, and because Stannis is a tactical genius. Whether he leads them onto the brittle ice or does something else...I just don't see how he can lose. My big fear is that it'll be a costly victory; what if his army kills much of the Manderly force by accident for instance. And then there's the issue of the next step: taking Winterfell. That's where I think he'll get fucked...
That's true, the pink letter does give me hope.
Yabberwocky
Member
I feel like 'my body isn't ready' often gets tossed around lightly, but goddamn, The Mannis + The Beard + The Furcloak...
I'm curious to see how Sansa's arc will mesh in with Winterfell. It'd be such a shame to loose Manderly, though.
I'm curious to see how Sansa's arc will mesh in with Winterfell. It'd be such a shame to loose Manderly, though.
Nice! Thanks.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Please God don't let Mannis be the character that dies that GRRM says isn't dead in the books yet.
Well, let's be honest I don't see Stannis surviving the series. I just want him to kick some Bolton ass before he goes.
The Red Viper
Banned
I doubt it. Most likely Stannis won't make it to the end of the series so if he gets killed off in the show, he is likely on his way out in the books as well.
My personal theory on this is:
It all goes pretty well!
1. Davos has already made it to Skagos and back with the huge chunk of time between his last appearance in the book and where the novel ends. The actual story of what happened in Skagos will be told as flashback later. For now, Davos made it back to White Harbor and met with Robett Glover who went to let Manderly know the plan is in motion. Glover is the hooded man Theon runs into, on his way to meet with Manderly at one of his lengthy toilet breaks. That's the reason Manderly is suddenly so cavalier with his life at the end when he taunts the Freys into attacking him. He's already given the order to defect to Stannis to whoever is in charge of his army. As far as he's concerned, he's already won.
2. Stannis beats the Freys using the frozen lake and successfully negotiates with the Manderly forces. They may even have Davos with them, to help that go smoothly. There's definitely a risk that Stannis sees the Manderly banners and gets reckless trying to avenge Davos, but I don't think that's where it's going.
3. Stannis dresses his men up in the Freys' armor, and the Manderly writes back to Winterfell of their victory, telling the Boltons that the battle is won and they're bringing Stannis' magic sword as a trophy.
4. Upon getting the letter, Ramsay writes the Pink Letter to Jon in response, legitimately believing that Stannis is defeated.
5. The Manderly-"Frey" army arrives at Winterfell and presents the sword. The gates are opened, and they sack the castle from inside. Meanwhile, Jon is being stabbed for trying to come help them. The GRRM-esque bitter twist isn't that Stannis loses the battle, but that their too-clever plan inadvertently gets Jon killed through a series of unfoseeable events.
1. Davos has already made it to Skagos and back with the huge chunk of time between his last appearance in the book and where the novel ends. The actual story of what happened in Skagos will be told as flashback later. For now, Davos made it back to White Harbor and met with Robett Glover who went to let Manderly know the plan is in motion. Glover is the hooded man Theon runs into, on his way to meet with Manderly at one of his lengthy toilet breaks. That's the reason Manderly is suddenly so cavalier with his life at the end when he taunts the Freys into attacking him. He's already given the order to defect to Stannis to whoever is in charge of his army. As far as he's concerned, he's already won.
2. Stannis beats the Freys using the frozen lake and successfully negotiates with the Manderly forces. They may even have Davos with them, to help that go smoothly. There's definitely a risk that Stannis sees the Manderly banners and gets reckless trying to avenge Davos, but I don't think that's where it's going.
3. Stannis dresses his men up in the Freys' armor, and the Manderly writes back to Winterfell of their victory, telling the Boltons that the battle is won and they're bringing Stannis' magic sword as a trophy.
4. Upon getting the letter, Ramsay writes the Pink Letter to Jon in response, legitimately believing that Stannis is defeated.
5. The Manderly-"Frey" army arrives at Winterfell and presents the sword. The gates are opened, and they sack the castle from inside. Meanwhile, Jon is being stabbed for trying to come help them. The GRRM-esque bitter twist isn't that Stannis loses the battle, but that their too-clever plan inadvertently gets Jon killed through a series of unfoseeable events.
Askherserenity
Member
Jesus, wtf is going on this season? I already hate whenever they deviate too much from the books and this season looks like a whole different thing altogether. Oh well.
There was never any hope of this season hewing close to the books. Feast+Dance is pretty much unadaptable. Honestly, other than Sansa and Jaime, this seems closer to the books than a lot of people were expecting.
Askherserenity
Member
Snow's arc as well? I think?
I mean, I wouldn't mind if the changes were actually good, but I just didn't like how they handled some stuff last season.
Will still watch and hopefully enjoy it.
The Red Viper
Banned
Yeah tbh it seems like most of the major storylines are intact for the most part. Dany, Tryion, Cersei, Theon, Stannis, Arya, Jon, etc all seen to be sticking fairly close to the books all things considered. Even Sansa, while obviously very different, it seems likely that she is going to return to Winterfell at some point in the books so I can see why they did that. The only one that is not relevant to the books at all is Jaime in Dorne. Brienne's storyline is a wild card though.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Didn't want to quote your big post about winterfell but quick question iksen
The killer who was offing Freys in Winterfell were the two dancers who escaped with Theon right? Did we ever find out who they worked for?
Yes and no.
Remember, when Theon was at Winterfell a number of murders occurred not all of them were Freys. The total number of people murdered are as follows:
Ryswell Soldier
Aenys Frey's squire
Flint Crossbowman
Two Bolton men and horses
Yellow Dick
Little Walder
Nobody knows who murdered them and when the spearwives/dancers confront Theon they deny involvement in the murders. Now, we do know the identities of the two women, they are the spearwives sent with Mance Rayder to rescue Arya from Ramsay. Abel, the singer, is Mance Rayder in disguise. Back to the murders, it does seem like they would be telling the truth about the murders as they had no reason to lie to Theon and there is the simple fact that the murders would only draw attention to them and their plan. Thus, the question remains who killed them? Many people believe it is the hooded figure that Theon encountered while walking around Winterfell, but we don't know.
However, it's likely that not all of the murders are the work of one person. For instance, it seems most likely that Big Walder killed Little Walder. To quote a good explanation:
There's also the simple fact that Big Walder probably killed Little Walder because he didn't like seeing what he had turned into. Little Walder, who is also a squire to Ramsay, had taking a real liking to Ramsay Snow and his "methods." He began to act more and more like Ramsay and took joy in all the tortures. Big Walder, on the other hand, did not partake in such activities and did not hold the same level of esteem towards Ramsay as Little Walder.
Atraveller
Banned
Jon's going to Hardhome, which is a plot in the book. He's just leading the mission personally in the show instead of delegating it to Cotter Pyke, so I don't think that's as big a change as he Sansa and Jaime situations.
The women Theon is with were working for Mance, and seem to have carried out all of the murders prior to the Frey boy. They steadfastly deny doing that one though, and there is pretty convincing evidence that he was killed by his own brother, which I think has been posted above.
MANNIS
Just want to point out that this pic of Stannis has by far the most views of any pic in the album. Like 6 times as many views. You guys are funny.
Does anyone else notice that around 1:06 it shows Cersei, Margery, Tommen, Olenna, the High Sparrow in some dingy room and the next second it looks like Loras is attacking LF's male whore who he slept with back in Season 3 and then later in the trailer we Margery bursting through a set of doors rather angrily. Could be that Cersei is "taking care of" Loras like in the books because he's getting too close to Tommen by outing him in from of the High Sparrow and his men.
Wish I knew how to take screenshots.
Wish I knew how to take screenshots.
As it should be.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they're rewriting the allegations against Marg into allegations against Loras, so that Cersei can get out of her marriage agreement with him. Looks like he's on trial here.
Ah yes forgot that was still on the table.
Some posters with Joker avatars just want to see the world burn.
Atraveller
Banned
If he's to die, he'll go out like a badass, that's for sure!
He'll take down 10 of Ramsay's dogs.
Atraveller
Banned
ಠ_ಠ
Haha, well played.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I think I agree with all of this except Ramsay writing the letter. I used to agree about that, and it definitely seems like the simplest explanation. But there are some details in the letter that point elsewhere. I think it was either written by Mance or Stannis. Both are the only characters I can think of who are privy to all the information presented in the letter. Only Wildlings refer to the NW as crows, which suggests Mance. On the other hand, only Stannis (and his men) refers to Val as a "Wildling princess." Both have been around each other enough to be familiar with the other's phraseology (Mance knows the southerners call Val a princess, Stannis knows the wildlings call the NW crows).
The next question to me is: who has the ability to send a letter. Obviously Ramsay could. Mance probably doesn't have time to access ink and a bird: he's either hiding or a captive. However Stannis happens to capture the Bolton's maester in the first TWOW chapter; the maester has ink, paper, and pink candle wax.
So in short Stannis is familiar with the terminology used in the letter and has the means to send a letter. He also has a motive: a hail mary attempt to get Jon to lead an army to Winterfell. I think Mance would have a similar motive (the wildlings would do anything to save him) but ultimately he doesn't have the resources to send a letter.
The next question to me is: who has the ability to send a letter. Obviously Ramsay could. Mance probably doesn't have time to access ink and a bird: he's either hiding or a captive. However Stannis happens to capture the Bolton's maester in the first TWOW chapter; the maester has ink, paper, and pink candle wax.
So in short Stannis is familiar with the terminology used in the letter and has the means to send a letter. He also has a motive: a hail mary attempt to get Jon to lead an army to Winterfell. I think Mance would have a similar motive (the wildlings would do anything to save him) but ultimately he doesn't have the resources to send a letter.
TheSadRanger
Banned
That's the books, not the show.
badcrumble
Member
Also, there are theories that that isn't true and is just what's being reported back to King's Landing.
Oh, I do think LF plans to raise Sansa Stark quite high (probably in order to marry her) but I don't think his plans are to champion the Starks so much as they're to ruin most or all of the great houses and end up controlling Westeros. He just sees chaos in the South + control in the North as the best way to manage that.Dénouement;155266999 said:
There is not a remotely logical reason that LF would put his most prized asset in harms way.
1) She's already married Sansa being raped makes nullifying the first wedding more difficult, I'd believe
2) She's actually the heir to Winterfell
3) Northern lords won't remember what Sansa looks like?
2) She's actually the heir to Winterfell
3) Northern lords won't remember what Sansa looks like?
Every time I think of a character I like that has been cut, and then see the stupid Grey Worm sex scene they keep hyping up, I want to punch myself in the face.
We don't know if that's how the story plays out at all though. So lets just wait and see.
I feel this trailer was better than the first one. It gives some hints on the direction of the plotlines along with some striking images.
NITPICK TIME
NITPICK TIME
I see Bolton sigil, but what are the others? The one in the middle may be the flaming heart of Stannis, but who is the sword through the emblem?
I'm curious to know what this scene represents. Where are they? Is that Oliver, the gay escort? At first I didn't know who was running at them, but it's clearly Loras in another screen.
Maybe the sparrows are involved with him? He looks relatively haggard. If he was punished by the faith, then it would be a pretty big departure from his book storyline.
Some interesting items on the table. I think we can all see the flaming heart of R'hllor, it's nice that they mention it in other areas. I didn't recognize the others, but after googling they may be actual references to religions in the book. The black goat may refer to the black goat of Qohor, and was also on the banners of the Brave Companions. It is also one aspect of the Many-Faced God and Arya sees a black goat statue in Braavos. Those buddha-looking statue may refer to the goddess of the Rhoynar, Mother Rhoyne. I'm not sure who the twisty guy or the deity in the chair is supposed to be.
Who the hell is this? I think I read some casting rumor a while back about them looking for someone of east Asian descent. THE GREEN GRACE?
These dudes seem to attack Brienne in the trailer. Any ideas?
Hmm, do you want actual answers, or to keep the speculation game going?
Basileus777
Member
How is Loras fucking a whore going to backfire on Cersei? That guy works for Littlefinger right? He's not employed by Cersei and he can't incriminate her. What can they even do about it? I feel like at worst they'd oust him out of the Kingsguard, unlike the Queens, who would lose their heads.
Book related: I wonder if this suggests Margaery wins her trial, if that even happens.
Book related: I wonder if this suggests Margaery wins her trial, if that even happens.
A Weirwood tree?
Lord Couture
Member
Sellswords I guess. Maybe the Golden Company (hence the golden coin).
Olyvar works for LF and we know LF goes to King's Landing at the beginning of season 5 (in the 3rd or 4th episode, don't remember which one). LF will probably meet Cersei and they will strike some deal. Cersei hates the Tyrells, so LF tells her he can get Loras arrested by the Faith quite easily in exchange of something from Cersei. Don't know what.
Probably a Red Priestess in Volantis that Tyrion and Varys encounter. Basically a Benerro stand-in. It's time for the show to provide some exposure about Red R'hllor and how big of a following he has.
Would you give actual answers?
Most of it can be inferred from the pictures anyway, but here we go:
I have no clue what that sigil on Stannis' chess board is. Possibly wildling forces?
Loras
is arrested by the Faith after a brief scuffle. Apparently it's over his homosexuality. While a departure from the books, I do like it as it paints the High Sparrow far greyer. The Dragonstone siege isn't happening this season.
The only Asian casting
we're aware of is the Waif in Arya's storyline. Now, whether an Asian girl was actually cast or not is unknown. This doesn't look like Braavos though due to the slave collars, so I'm not entirely sure what's going on.
Brienne and Pod
are accosted by knights of the Vale, possibly set upon them by Littlefinger and Sansa after our dark duo refuses their offer of protection etc.
Apart from that, I can't offer much. But the few shots of Hardhome in the trailer definitely line up with that amazing rumour I posted a few pages back.
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