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[HyperWoolf]

Pretty much. I'm sure somebody has worked out a chapter sequence that worked better, but AFFC was just too much of a non-event (By comparison).

Still, it would be hard not to bring it home in grand style given all the extra world building he did (even if it was boring). Even the wheel of time worked out in the end and we are nowhere near that level.

If it was Robert Jordan and not Sanderson that was writing the last few books, I think it would have taken a lot more than 3 to satisfactorily wrap it up, given where the previous few books were going. Then again, the beginning of TWOW seems to be more about wrapping up those storylines, which would have worked better at the end of AFFC/ADWD, and I am expecting the end of season 5 to mostly wrap up.

 

[Massa]

To be fair, those Yara scenes... and we haven't seen more of the Sand Snakes yet.

That Yara scene is what happens when you don't have unlimited time and budget to think things through.

 

[gigantor21]

Hulk on point, as usual. A fuckin' ballerina, that guy.

It's definitely true that most of the pleasure I've gotten out of AFFC and ADWD has been external to the works themselves. Wild speculations about Euron = Daario, joking about fat pink masts, digging on the Great Northern Conspiracy, etc. The books just accomplished so little in all those pages.

The bit about resolving drama offscreen or too late is particularly resonant. It's why I don't mind ditching Lady Stoneheart at all. She's super cool when you talk about her, disconnected from the timeline of the book, but she's pretty flat in the books. Like. Aside from being a menacing presence, her whole drama has been "is she going to kill Brienne or not" which I don't particularly care about, Brienne doesn't matter: the whole world 'bout to be besieged by ancient ice demons from out of nightmares anyway.

The books are so bad about stakes. The show is better but still kind of bad. Remember when we went to Ice Mordor and saw Ice Daddy create lil Ice Baby? That was cool and menacing and bonkers and -- it's been completely abandoned.

I'm really, REALLY glad I waited until the end of Season 4 to start reading the books. If I'd actually read the books as they came out, AFFC and ADWD would've driven me nuts, LOL.

It's simply amazing how much the story's buildup and momentum ground to a halt after the third book.

 

[Pyramid head]

That Yara scene is what happens when you don't have unlimited time and budget to think things through.

Time and money were not the problem with that scene. Simply not writing and filming it would have taken no time and cost no money. The problem was shitty ideas and shitty execution.

 

[jett]

The problem is Yara is a shitcakes character that shouldn't exist in the first place. I'd rather have nothing instead of that.

 

[bengraven]

I don't think I'm watching on Go tonight - our crappy connection made it buff four times the last few weeks - last week alone took me almost 2 hours to watch the episode. I really don't want to watch it on TV since the inlaws are here...

Shit, I guess I'll just watch Monday morning.

Spoiler

lol hbogo it will be

 

[NeoGiff]

New episode tonight:

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Spoiler

Arya trains. Jorah and Tyrion run into slavers. Trystane and Myrcella make plans. Jaime and Bronn reach their destination. The Sand Snakes attack.

Edit: Sorry Steely, you've been usurped.

 

[bengraven]

Sorry Steely, you've been usurped.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

If Stannis loses the Winterfell battle, he would have not won any major battle per the Show

So it will probably happen

 

[Forkball]

He broke Mance at the Wall. BROKE HIM. He also showed Renly who's boss.

 

[Madness]

I like to think the Jaime change to Dorne is just a butterfly effect of them having him return to Kings Landing before Joffrey funeral. There was no real time to bond with his brother, no real time to be with Cersei. So where Jaime naturally drifts apart from Cersei after hearing she's fucking Lancel and Kettleblack and Moon Boy, realizing that Tyrion probably did kill Joffrey (Tyrion lied in anger), losing Tywin and that later introspection about how he thought he was so great and yet the white book had none of his feats. Writing that he was defeated by the young wolf Robb Stark was one of the best moments for book Jaime.

The show never used Stoneheart, doesn't care about Blackfish, forgot about Edmure and so what can show Jaime do? How can he drift apart from Cersei for the story? Well fans loved Indira Varma, got attached to Oberyn so the show thought, let's get him and fan favorite Bronn to go down there, the same Myrcella attack stuff will happen, but it will probably cause Jaime to be scorned by Cersei when she hears, he won't be there to save her from the High Sparrow trial by combat as opposed to him ignoring her letter in the books, and Bronn ever so subtly was hinting at, 'does the girl you love want the same thing'. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but it's just snowballed so differently from the books.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

He broke Mance at the Wall. BROKE HIM. He also showed Renly who's boss.

Neither really like proper battles

 

[Steelyuhas]

New episode tonight:

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken


Edit: Sorry Steely, you've been usurped.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Exile Steely to the Unsullied thread

There's a new poster for next episode previews

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Really excited for this episode.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Steelyuhas]

Exile Steely to the Unsullied thread

There's a new poster for next episode previews

Whatever, I don't need you guys!

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Whatever, I don't need you guys!

Exit stage back for you then

 

[Speevy]

I can't wait for the sand snakes tonight.



Obara!

Tyene!

Nym!

And I'm Ellaria for some reason!

It's morphin' time!


*high pitched battle cry*

Those who are about to die, we salute you.

 

[Dysun]

The cheese will be high tonight

 

[Kain]

Exit stage back for you then

This gif destroys me every time.

 

[Lothar]

So now they're assholes? Ok.

I'm pretty sure no one in this thread called them assholes for that. When you said "Painting D&D as assholes for killing a character", I assumed you were making a exaggeration to poke fun at the outrage.

Look maybe she's MORE sympathetic, but no one is gonna cry for her. If you do well... good for you I guess, but you'll be in the minority. People hate her guts.

Why? You don't feel bad for her when she's
-confiding to Catelyn about her dead child,
-crying to Tyrion saying she hoped Joffrey would be like Jaime and wondered if Joffrey was punishment for her sins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wxdrhHlcnQ
-opening up to Tyrion again by telling the story about Joffrey as a baby and saying no one can take that away from her, not even Joffrey,
-telling Tyrion that while she's not happy she would have killed herself if it wasn't for her kids,
-comforting Sansa by saying "Even though you don't love Joffrey, you'll love your children." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDRxitf9n54)
worrying about Myrcella in Dorne (Note: Myrcella is actually in danger in Dorne)
-being told to go away by Tommen
-being threatened with execution by Joffrey
-being raped by Jaime at her son's funeral

Click on those two links and tell me she's not sympathetic. Why in god's name would anyone want this poor woman to endure a walk of shame?

Sure, she does some bad things too, but nothing as bad as Dany burning an innocent man alive. I would say she's clearly more sympathetic than Dany at this point which sounds weird to say.

 

[higgsboson1997]

So how do you guys rank the seasons so far?

For me, personally, it's:

1. Season 4 (10/10)
2. Season 3 (9.5/10)
3. Season 5 (9.5/10)
4. Season 1 (9.5/10)
5. Season 2 (9/10)

 

[Speevy]

So how do you guys rank the seasons so far?

For me, personally, it's:

1. Season 4 (10/10)
2. Season 3 (9.5/10)
3. Season 5 (9.5/10)
4. Season 1 (9.5/10)
5. Season 2 (9/10)

I can't judge this season yet because it's only half over, and that would be unfair.

1. Season 1
2. Season 4
3. Season 2
4. Season 3

 

[Brakke]

I hope in the flurry of character combinations that the Sand Snakes get Darkstar's line, delivered in unison "we are of the night".

 

[NeoGiff]

I hope in the flurry of character combinations that the Sand Snakes get Darkstar's line, delivered in unison "we are of the night".

I'm just about to eat my dinner and now I feel like vomiting.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I'm just about to eat my dinner and now I feel like vomiting.

Just round up a bunch of non-characters and roll them into one super character.

Literally nothing could go wrong.

 

[hipsterpants]

Yeah, even though I imagine a good number of people hate Cersei she's supposed to be a more sympathetic character. I'm not sure if it makes her more interesting or is a waste of time since everyone hates her anyway lol

So I've been thinking that maybe in Dorne Jaime will get wrapped up in the Queenmaker plot and start helping Myrcella. He'll finally be able to be a father and maybe the time away with someone he cares about that isn't a psychopath/idiot/father-killer will set him along a similar path as his book counterpart. Of course now I actually want Trystane = fAegon to be a thing because that would make things way more interesting!

fEdit: future show speculation is way too much fun. I should find other things to do in my free time. Like video games.

 

[Kain]

I hope in the flurry of character combinations that the Sand Snakes get Darkstar's line, delivered in unison "we are of the night".

Yes please, please. That's the only thing that can save that plot.

 

[munchie64]

I'm pretty sure no one in this thread called them assholes for that. When you said "Painting D&D as assholes for killing a character", I assumed you were making a exaggeration to poke fun at the outrage.

I swear to god it was there but now I can't find it
*Shakes fist* You win this round!

Why? You don't feel bad for her when she's

I mean yeah I do, but she really is a horrid person and I think this comes across pretty plainly. I really disagree with you calling her a poor woman, that's for sure. She was Queen and she failed at it. I asked in the other thread about this since I was interested, though I'm not sure I'll get any response.
I do have to say that all those times you mentioned were out of her control. This time though, her undoing is entirely her fault and I feel there'll be some satisfaction to this.

Sure, she does some bad things too, but nothing as bad as Dany burning an innocent man alive. I would say she's clearly more sympathetic than Dany at this point which sounds weird to say.

I don't really want to turn this into an argument about Dany, since her storyline almost feels like its not worth arguing about, but that "innocent man" RAN a fucking slaver city. Probably had something to do with the Sons of the Harpy too. Fuck that guy.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Access Hollywood: Tom Wlaschiha on Jaqen, Waif, and Training Arya

 

[badcrumble]

AFFC is thematically and structurally the most accomplished book in the series, and its shift in focus to the Lannisters and the common people is a really fun subversion after the climactic events of the preceding book. I love the big narrative events of ASoS as anyone else, but AFFC is a much more accomplished novel.

ADwD is a structural nightmare, though. Martin should have stuck with his original plans to only focus on the non-Feast characters and end on both battles. By reintroducing the Feast characters midway through, it becomes bloated and directionless, and delaying the battles robs it of any climax. I still enjoyed it, but only as part of the series rather than a complete novel in its own right.

This is basically my feeling. I really don't mind AFFC abandoning the 'fan favorite' characters, but that might be because I read it for the first time shortly before ADWD came out - I can imagine that the wait from ASOS to ADWD was unbearable for plenty of people.

AFFC is really tightly structured and does a fantastic job with Cersei especially, but yeah, ADWD feels like a bunch of catch-up on story threads that are often unrelated to each other.

I do think, though, that the show making Cersei more three-dimensional is a good thing (but that they seriously dropped the ball with the Tysha/Shae material for Tyrion). I don't think show-Cersei is actually sympathetic at all - but she's got what feels like concrete motivations instead of being just needlessly over-the-top evil. She's a not-as-smart-as-she-thinks-she-is schemer desperate to actually hold power instead of being reduced just to functioning as a strategically useful bride and mother, she's a total tiger mom, and the show makes it clear that it's not okay for her to be endlessly vicious and vindictive just because she feels protective of her kids.

 

[bengraven]

Whatever, I don't need you guys!

 

[Speevy]

 

[Massa]

Access Hollywood: Tom Wlaschiha on Jaqen, Waif, and Training Arya

A man gives an interview.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Maybe Pod will get with Brienne, feel like we dropped the chain of how good Pod is with the ladies very abruptly.

 

[Speevy]

A man gives an interview.

A man gives an autograph. One name.

 

[Iksenpets]

Maybe Pod will get with Brienne, feel like we dropped the chain of how good Pod is with the ladies very abruptly.

Pod and the prostitutes was a pretty transparent attempt to just remind viewers that Pod exists during season 3 when he had nothing to do, so that it wouldn't be jarring when he becomes relevant to Brienne's plot. I doubt it'll ever be mentioned in more than passing.

 

[Szeth]

Turns out D&D wrote that poem about Valyria and not Cogman, neat

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Pod and the prostitutes was a pretty transparent attempt to just remind viewers that Pod exists during season 3 when he had nothing to do, so that it wouldn't be jarring when he becomes relevant to Brienne's plot. I doubt it'll ever be mentioned in more than passing.

 

[Speevy]

I'd love to see a scene with Pod and this guy now that he's doing better.

 

[Lexad]

Pretty much. I'm sure somebody has worked out a chapter sequence that worked better, but AFFC was just too much of a non-event (By comparison).

Still, it would be hard not to bring it home in grand style given all the extra world building he did (even if it was boring). Even the wheel of time worked out in the end and we are nowhere near that level.

I plan on using this reading order after I finish reading the Halo books

http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a

 

[Iksenpets]

God that smash cut to Pod smiling was the best thing. Serious props to Michele MacLaren and Daniel Portman for that one.

Also, looking at some still shots of the show, was this shot ever actually in the show?

Now I'm worried there was a whole scene of Sand Snake dialogue that they cut because it was even worse than the rest of it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sand Snakes look straight outta Qarth, ie corny as fuck.

 

[Drazgul]

Sand Snakes look straight outta Qarth, ie corny as fuck.

Don't you mean... qorny?

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I felt like Qarth should have had a bigger role to play in the series.

 

[Real Hero]

I felt like Qarth should have had a bigger role to play in the series.

They are at war against Dany so maybe she will burn it down before she leaves

 

[Speevy]

Are Stannis and Jon in this episode tonight?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Are Stannis and Jon in this episode tonight?

Likely not, judging from the Episode 6 teaser/trailer

I want my Mannis!!

Hopefully no more story time from the Sand Snakes

 

[Speevy]

My hair is falling out so that it looks like Stannis' hair. I hope to be as badass.

 

[Real Hero]

My hair is falling out so that it looks like Stannis' hair. I hope to be as badass.

teeth grind some more