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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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We have his editor to thank for that. She convinced him to remove all the battles and put them in TWOW.
Business-wise, it was the right call for the publisher: GRRM would obviously take his time to write these big events and the publisher wanted to take advantage of the show's success back in the first season.
However, George always says he never caves to publishers and writes things at his own pace, telling the stories he wants to tell, etc, so he really dropped the ball there.
I do think the Jon cliffhanger was planned in advance and wouldn't have changed, though.
"Something, something, D&D was just making the storyline better! It totally makes sense!"
Yeah I'm sorry. It's so bad I literally laugh at just how badly they've managed to ruin her storyline.
Steelyuhas
Member
According to Westeros.org "per HBO", 510 title: Mother's Mercy
I don't blame the editor on that one. Apparently he didn't actually finish writing those battles, or at least one of them. Still, if one was finished, he could've cut a few Dany/Tyrion chapters to fit it in.
What?
That is just straight trolling the Stoneheart people if true. No idea what that's referring to. Some combo of Dany killing everyone and shit going down with the Faith?
bengraven
Member
I have this feeling that D&D now understand what George was learning when he got this far. They're tired of GOT too. He spit out three novels that he was in love with, but his wandering eyes made him ready for other things. Same as the Ds. They got their Red Wedding on the screen, now they're like "wow, so many other projects that would be fun to work on - let's wrap this up quick..."
Hmmmmmm. Description:
Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
So, Cersei's walk (title could refer to this?) and Jon's stabbing confirmed. The Dany bit is kind of a question mark. I'm also convinced Jon is gonna
send Sam and Gilly off to Oldtown, or at least out of Castle Black, in the wake of shit hitting the fan there in order to protect them, or something similar. Wouldn't be surprised if it's less an attack just on Jon then a larger massacre/battle with Jon and his supporters/wildlings vs Night's Watch.
Steelyuhas
Member
Or that a heavily serialized drama for 10 seasons is almost guaranteed to become a drag...
The title's direct reference is definitely Cersei.
bodyofanamerican
Member
And it looks like
the Mannis might actually survive to fight another season
Looks like Ramsay may SORT of slow down his army by burning the camp, he doesn't stop them in their tracks. Fingers crossed.
The Dany bit reads to me like she's meeting
a Khalasar in the desert
And here's the link to the story in question:
FINALE TITLE, DETAILS RELEASED
Dany surrounded by strangers? Dothraki?
Battle of Winterfell, the Walk, Dany and the Dothraki, For the Watch. That would be a strong finale if true. Also, the phrasing "Jon is challenged" could definitely refer to the Pink Letter, too, and not just the assassination.
Battle of Winterfell, the Walk, Dany and the Dothraki, For the Watch. That would be a strong finale if true. Also, the phrasing "Jon is challenged" could definitely refer to the Pink Letter, too, and not just the assassination.
Doesn't immediately link to anything besides Cersei, strange title
WrenchNinja
Member
These summaries are always so hilarious in how mundane they sound
If they show the white eyes and/or Ghost it'll be fine - people will get what happened (or be told by their smarter friends.)
Hmm looks like
Dany actually is seeing the Dothraki then.
back in Meereen with Tyrion and Jorah if there's no Battle of Meereen?
And
Stannis and Jon survive episode 9 confirmed. Wonder if they'll actually make the stabbing a cliffhanger. Doubt they'll revive Jon this season but I think they'll strongly hint at it.
Is there some way the title could link to Arya too, based on her AWOW chapter? Haven't fully read that chapter myself. Also there's an obvious connection to Dany asking for "mercy" from mistreating her dragons. Maybe a Selyse connection too? And there's that whole Stoneheart thing...
There's been multiple readings of titles in the past, and times where it is very specific to one thing/event. Could go either way.
Yeah thinking on it, Mother's Mercy is a very specific thing tied to The Mother aspect of the faith, but the title might be referring to multiple things so it's fun to speculate.
There's been multiple readings of titles in the past, and times where it is very specific to one thing/event. Could go either way.
Yeah thinking on it, Mother's Mercy is a very specific thing tied to The Mother aspect of the faith, but the title might be referring to multiple things so it's fun to speculate.
This really sounds like it could be structured with the books' full double cliffhanger. Stannis marches, we maybe see a bit of skirmishing, then cut away to Pink Letter and Jon's stabbing, both situations left up in the air for next season.
I think it could work well, but I'm worried they haven't really earned the right to end on a cliffhanger this season. The audience is pretty frustrated, and could be pushed over the edge with something like that, instead of being excited.
I think it could work well, but I'm worried they haven't really earned the right to end on a cliffhanger this season. The audience is pretty frustrated, and could be pushed over the edge with something like that, instead of being excited.
GRRM's said that Dany and Tyrion won't meet until late in Winds, so it's possible there's some Tyrion/Jorah/Daario arc after the battle that they're going to be doing? Or the Dothraki stuff could all resolve within the first episode next season, and Dany is strolling in with her Khalasar to pick up Tyrion and Jorah by episode 2
StopMakingSense
Member
Does Shireen even have the blood of a king anymore if Stannis dies?
Anton Sugar
Member
If Stannis died/dies this season...
Worst season CONFIRMED.
Worst season CONFIRMED.
He didn't, which means his originally planned story for the book wasn't finished, but they decided to release it regardless.
Keep in mind that the Tyrion, Victarion, Barristan and Theon chapters from TWOW had already been written.
Chances are high, if you ask me. Mance had a fake death in the book, but a real one in the show. As for Stannis, the most widely accepted theory is that he didn't die, but D&D may think it's better for the show if he does. After Barry's death and Sansa's storyline, all bets are off.
bodyofanamerican
Member
The Stannis description sounds like he could be
like in the books.
marching in a different direction than Winterfell and end up in the Crofter's village
Given how the current storyline is about Stannis not marching, what about him marching leads you to the conclusion that he dies?
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
That's pretty much my concern.
Just realized that Mother's Mercy could also really darkly refer to Selyse/Shireen. Oh god please don't let it happen.
Lack of villains is why we get Euron and Randyll next season. Plus Dany may be making a heel turn. Ramsay has run his course. Roose could still be interesting, but I have no idea what he'll be up to.
Lack of villains is why we get Euron and Randyll next season. Plus Dany may be making a heel turn. Ramsay has run his course. Roose could still be interesting, but I have no idea what he'll be up to.
Because all he does is flay people and I've had enough flayed people scenes.
There are more scenes of flayed people than there are Joffrey killing anyone scenes.
Also, how does Sansa get out without killing Ramsay or Roose or someone?
Moff
Member
well we have seen ramsay in the battle already so she certainly won't kill him when she flees. and I doubt she kills roose, that would be worse than barristan
bodyofanamerican
Member
One of them has to go, and if they felt the need to have him rape Sansa, they unfortunately have put themselves in the position where the audience already wants some things to break right for the Starks, and now they really need to payoff Ramsay getting his somehow.
Plus, the real villain in the North next season will probably be Winter more than anything.
Moff
Member
move ramsey the storm is coming
euron killing ramsay would be great, he should make reek watch though, maybe even let him warm him up first
CitizenVectron
Member
I'd be really disappointed if this season ends with a bunch of cliffhangers. The books (while poorly edited in terms of cutting out resolutions in ADWD) at least kind of earned it. But this season has been really bumming a lot of people out, both show and book fans. They really need to resolve the Stannis and Jon arcs this season.
I actually expect we will have a battle of Mereen, just next season. I think Danny will take off on Drogon in 9, find the Dothraki in 10, and then next season will re-appear as Mereen is under revolt from the masters/attack from outside forces. I doubt the Iron Born will be involved though. They could include them too, but it would have to be late in the season and I get the feeling she'll be setting off for Westeros mid-way or late into the season.
I actually expect we will have a battle of Mereen, just next season. I think Danny will take off on Drogon in 9, find the Dothraki in 10, and then next season will re-appear as Mereen is under revolt from the masters/attack from outside forces. I doubt the Iron Born will be involved though. They could include them too, but it would have to be late in the season and I get the feeling she'll be setting off for Westeros mid-way or late into the season.
bengraven
Member
HOLY SHIT KIDS
So George was at that con this weekend and someone thought they'd be clever and asked:
"So it was just Howland, Ned, and Jon that survived the Tower of Joy?" and GRRM amusedly said that, (SERIES SPOILERS SRSLY)
So George was at that con this weekend and someone thought they'd be clever and asked:
"So it was just Howland, Ned, and Jon that survived the Tower of Joy?" and GRRM amusedly said that, (SERIES SPOILERS SRSLY)
"Howland and Eddard" were the only people to leave the Tower of Joy alive. Wrench thrown into R and L equals J?
I doubt it.
Shuggananas
Banned
bullshit
or maybe the baby was somewhere else and she asked him to protect him
or maybe the baby was somewhere else and she asked him to protect him
Ned and Howland were the only two to leave the tower alive.
"Shit, bro," Howland remarked. "We forgot the baby back in the tower!"
"Lol, whoops," replied Eddard. And they went back to the tower and this time all three left it alive.
I guess it's possible if the result of the cliffhangers is that Stannis and Jon are both dead, then that's so dark that maybe they lose fewer viewers with the cliffhangers than they do by showing that. But really I think they just feel like doing George one last favor and giving him one more year before they spoil everything. Also, a lot of the audience will think they were just cheap and wanted to keep the battle off screen. They'll have to be out in the media shouting to anyone who will listen that they're going to flashback to show the battle next season, if that's where they're going.
bengraven
Member
He's probably deflecting, but I still think that there's more to it than we realize. There's something about the Tower of Joy as well as Ashara and Edric Dayne that we don't know about yet. I'm still convinced also that Jon having to swap the children in Feast/Dance is a reflection of this (either that there's a possible Ned child Jon's age or that Ned is his dad and there's a Rhaegar/Lyanna baby wandering around).
Moff
Member
they sent benjen back to pick him up, which is why his ultimate goal as the now nights king is to turn jon into an other
510's title Mother's Mercy confirms Lady Stone Heart. Episode ends with Dany flying off on Drogon, Sansa being impregnated (likely raped), Jon finding out who his mother his from the Night King and Zombie Cat offering the 'mothers mercy' to Roose Bolton as she saves Stannis from losing the battle.
C'mon man he was just deflecting the obviously leading question.
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