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[Patriots7]

What are you talking about? Renly's actions make him a real scumbag and of course he wanted to be King, he says so himself.

-He first attempted to marry Margaery to Robert even going so far as asking if she looked like Lyanna to Ned's face. This is a man who was trying to manipulate his brother into putting aside Cercei and marrying Marg by trying to convince him that she looked like his dead love. Him planning this was likely an attempt to gain more power since the Tyrells would be grateful to him for arranging the marriage.
-When Robert dies he attempts to steal the throne from Joffery who for all his knowledge he believes to be the rightful heir. He's not doing so to protect Joffery but so that he can rule through the boy, essentially holding him hostage.
-When Ned refuses he flees the city, marries Marg himself, and declares himself King all the whole still not knowing that Joff is a bastard and knowing full well that his brother Stannis is the Elder.
-When he speaks with Catelyn about his claim this is his response:


-When treating with Robert this was part of their exchange:



And the final line which proves that Renly fully intended for Stannis to die during the battle:


Renly may have been an alright King, but he was a dick and expected Stannis to die during the battle so he could usurp him.

He attempted to marry Margaery to Robert because he realized the Lannisters were not good for the realm.
He was not planning to become king and that was not his initial end goal. He never would've tried to kill Robert. In fact he was ready to aid his nephew as king.
He tried to marry Margaery to Robert and was aided in the fact that she might have resembled Lyanna. That's not a devious cunt trying to usurp power. He was trying to dispose of Cersei, who, by all accounts, was one of the most beautiful women in the realm. Best way to help that? Find an equally beautiful girl who happens to look like the love of Robert's life.

He attempted to remove the Lannister influence from Joffrey's rule. He asked Ned to join him in the task. That's not him being power hungry. Asking Ned implies he'd not rule over the realm by himself, he legitimately just wanted the Lannister's out.

He put himself in danger gaining the alliance and declaring himself king. Why should he have then fought to put Stannis on the throne. Everyone agrees that Stannis would have been a shit king. He was not fighting on the base that Joffrey was illegitimate. Had Stannis brought that to light earlier, maybe things would have been different. But would the Tyrells be happy marrying their daughter to a Prince? I doubt that.

And you quoted my favorite line of his in the book. There were at least 4 people ahead of Robert in line for the throne. The mad king was cray, but Rhaegar was not, Viserys and Dany were children. I believe even Jamie thought that Viserys would be the next king, as it was his by right. But Robert claimed it by conquest. Why should Renly not do the same?

Oh by the way, Stannis knew that Cersei's children were illegitimate, but ran off and his argument was that it was because "Robert hates me".

 

[Fuzzy]

I hope

Spoiler

Selyse scoops up the ashes so she can keep them with her other children.

 

[suzu]

Spoiler

Well the Selyse thing isn't that crazy. Yeah she was totally ready to burn her daughter but saying something and then seeing it happen in front of you are two completely different things. Just like Stannis was totally down to kill his brother then heavily regretted it after the fact.

Spoiler

Sure, but this is Selyse we're talking about. The same woman who has been pretty much scorning her own daughter since her birth. The same fanatical woman that is really keen on all that Lord of Light mumbo jumbo. lol

 

[NeoGiff]

I'm desperately trying to convince myself that the

Spoiler

Shireen that burns is a glamoured someone else... but it still makes no sense

. No. Fuck, no.

 

[Real Hero]

I hope

Spoiler

Selyse scoops up the ashes so she can keep them with her other children.

lol I forgot about the Dragonstone fetus collection

 

[Judderman]

I'm desperately trying to convince myself that the

Spoiler

Shireen that burns is a glamoured someone else... but it still makes no sense

. No. Fuck, no.

Spoiler

Melisandre is just finishing what Theon started by killing the farmer's daughter too. No half measures.

lol I forgot about the Dragonstone fetus collection

I think we all tried to.

 

[Iksenpets]

I'm desperately trying to convince myself that the

Spoiler

Shireen that burns is a glamoured someone else... but it still makes no sense

. No. Fuck, no.

Spoiler

I tried to logic out this exact thing earlier. That somehow Selyse and Shireen were switched. But it doesn't work. It doesn't work at all.

I feel bad for GRRM's blog. It's going to get pounded tonight. Really wonder if he'll respond with anything more than da show is da show.

Spoiler

Well the Selyse thing isn't that crazy. Yeah she was totally ready to burn her daughter but saying something and then seeing it happen in front of you are two completely different things. Just like Stannis was totally down to kill his brother then heavily regretted it after the fact.

Spoiler

I know it's plausible, just combined with them using the same mom logic in the Karsi arc last week and Stannis going way off character, it just another little thing.

 

[biosnake20]

Some guy on reddit guesses what the shocks in episode 10 wil be:

Spoiler

With episode 9 leaked already there is only one more episode to guess. Can we guess the plot to episode 10? Here are my ideas based on what we've seen so far. Here are my ideas, I feel they have a 9/10 chance of being correct:

Stannis brings his army to Winterfell. He is no match for a shirtless Ramsey Snow who solos Stannis' army armed only with a fruit knife.

In Braavos, Arya finally kills Meryn Trant. "No, Arya!" he says as he reveals himself to have been Syrio all along. He dies in her arms.

In Meereen, Jorah finally makes it back to Dany's side. "Oh Jorah, I have been a fool!" she says. "NOW I can finally kill you!" Jorah says and kills her.

In Dorne, Jamie gets Myrcella back and then says "NOW I can finally kill you" and kills her‏ and replaces her with Bronn‏.

At the Wall, the Watch try to assassinate Jon Snow, but Jon ducks and they kill each other instead.

Then Jamie gets back to King's Landing‏ and the High Sparrow tells him he has had Cersei arrested. "Yes my plan is now complete" says Jamie and he makes out with the High Sparrow and they have sex.

The final shot of the season‏ is Littlefinger atop the iron throne‏ raping Ser Pounce‏.

 

[biosnake20]

Spoiler

I tried to logic out this exact thing earlier. That somehow Selyse and Shireen were switched. But it doesn't work. It doesn't work at all.

I feel bad for GRRM's blog. It's going to get pounded tonight. Really wonder if he'll respond with anything more than da show is da show.

"How many children di- ah fuck it."

 

[Fuzzy]

I choose to believe that GRRM doesn't get any writing done during the season because he's constantly bombarded with shit from fans about the show.

 

[Patriots7]

Why is everything in black bars? We either don't talk about leaks or we do. It's 5 pages deep. Jesus.

 

[Jarmel]

Well tonight should be entertaining.

 

[Invictus]

GRRM will respond with the exact same canned response he has used countless times.
Butterfly effect.

 

[foxtrot3d]

He attempted to marry Margaery to Robert because he realized the Lannisters were not good for the realm.
He was not planning to become king and that was not his initial end goal. He never would've tried to kill Robert. In fact he was ready to aid his nephew as king.
He tried to marry Margaery to Robert and was aided in the fact that she might have resembled Lyanna. That's not a devious cunt trying to usurp power. He was trying to dispose of Cersei, who, by all accounts, was one of the most beautiful women in the realm. Best way to help that? Find an equally beautiful girl who happens to look like the love of Robert's life.

He attempted to remove the Lannister influence from Joffrey's rule. He asked Ned to join him in the task. That's not him being power hungry. Asking Ned implies he'd not rule over the realm by himself, he legitimately just wanted the Lannister's out.

He put himself in danger gaining the alliance and declaring himself king. Why should he have then fought to put Stannis on the throne. Everyone agrees that Stannis would have been a shit king. He was not fighting on the base that Joffrey was illegitimate. Had Stannis brought that to light earlier, maybe things would have been different. But would the Tyrells be happy marrying their daughter to a Prince? I doubt that.

And you quoted my favorite line of his in the book. There were at least 4 people ahead of Robert in line for the throne. The mad king was cray, but Rhaegar was not, Viserys and Dany were children. I believe even Jamie thought that Viserys would be the next king, as it was his by right. But Robert claimed it by conquest. Why should Renly not do the same?

Oh by the way, Stannis knew that Cersei's children were illegitimate, but ran off and his argument was that it was because "Robert hates me".

It's as I feared, you're one of "those" people. The kind that think Renly did everything for "the good of the realm" and wasn't even really a usurper because he was claiming the throne through Conquest. C'mon bro, as we have seen no one in this series is that selfless. Renly did what he did because he wanted power, nothing more. How exactly were the Lannisters "bad for the realm" from his perspective? He had no knowledge of Cercei's illegitimate children or her scheme to kill Robert. The Lannisters are the ones that funded Robert's reign and helped bring the realm together after his conquest. The Lannisters weren't bad for the realm, Robert was.

Also, it doesn't seem like he wants Jofferey seized for "the good of the realm."

"And what should I do with a hundred swords, my lord?"
"Strike! Now, while the castle sleeps." Renly looked back at Ser Boros again and dropped his voice to an urgent whisper. "We must get Joffrey away from his mother and take him in hand. Protector or no, the man who holds the king holds the kingdom. We should seize Myrcella and Tommen as well. Once we have her children, Cersei will not dare oppose us. The council will confirm you as Lord Protector and make Joffrey your ward."

 

[Speevy]

I want to make one final post on the subject.

Spoiler

In a storyline, a conflict exists in which a character must meet an opposing force or perhaps make a choice between two or more alternatives.

In Stannis' BOOK story, one part of this character's struggle is the battle for his soul. This is established on his very first episode in season 2. Characters wonder whether he is making his own decisions or if the red woman/lord of light is making them for him. Characters say this very thing.

So it's not as though the show devised a new storyline for Stannis.

You expected Stannis' badass, no nonsense, uncompromising MANNIS self to win out over the red lady in the end. You expected her to try something like burning Shireen, which would prompt him to throw her off the side of a mountain. MANNIS MANNIS MANNIS.

This conflict was created by GRRM, not D&D. However, I agree that it gives Brienne or Davos an excuse to kill him.

 

[Iksenpets]

GRRM will respond with the exact same canned response he has used countless times.
Butterfly effect.

Spoiler

Yeah, but in this case he can't even respond like that without basically confirming that this isn't what happens in the book. He basically has to either say nothing, or admit one way or the other if the scene is a future book event or not.

 

[Moff]

Spoiler

Yeah, but in this case he can't even respond like that without basically confirming that this isn't what happens in the book. He basically has to either say nothing, or admit one way or the other if the scene is a future book event or not.

Spoiler

I doubt he wants to say anything specific, his answer will most likely be "I did it differently" which doesnt really say anything, could still be stannis making that choice but under different circumstances

 

[Tubie]

What's going on in this thread? I haven't been here since the end of the episode last week.

I see so many black bars and I'm scared to click on any of them.

 

[Judderman]

What's going on in this thread? I haven't been here since the end of the episode last week.

I see so many black bars and I'm scared to click on any of them.

I would suggest coming back into the thread after you watch tonight's episode.

 

[Invictus]

What's going on in this thread? I haven't been here since the end of the episode last week.

I see so many black bars and I'm scared to click on any of them.

You have a choice.
Get pissed now.
Or get pissed in a few hours.

 

[Crisco]

Yeah, after some thought, I tend to agree with the posters who point out that Stannis is kind of a shit bag who's already shown he's willing to sacrifice family for power. He may have some underlying morality, but his sense of duty overpowers all. The same quality that allowed him to look past Jon's refusal of his offer will enable him to burn his daughter alive for "duty and justice". That portrayal of him is consistent in both the books and the show. The look of sadness on his face while hugging Shireen after their touching scene was because he was lying and knew she might have to burn.

It's not like D&D have ever been subtle,

“In war, does blood matter?” he babbles. “I never asked for this… We do not choose our destiny but we must do our duty.”

 

[gregor7777]

hey, not me, im not a dumb motherfucker who doesnt know how to spoiler tag!

Spoiler

spoiler tag that you dumb motherfucker

 

[gregor7777]

Spoiler

Just saw some of the Drogon scene, the special effects are outstanding.

Good. I don't care much about deviations from the books (it was always going to be this way) and what they do and don't show, but that scene needed to look awesome if they were going to do it.

I really scared about her

Spoiler

riding Drogon, and dragon riding in general.

It could end up looking completely ridiculous.

 

[Brakke]

It's like you guys don't even realize his name is Stannis; you walked right into the trap, Stan-ing for him.

 

[Kyougar]

regarding heirs.

Spoiler

In the political world you would call Stannis now a lame duck. His fight for the throne is basically over unless he names an heir outside of his Family. He can probably name one of Roberts bastards the heir. But until he does that his Carreer at a wannabe King is OVER!
The one thing that the royals over the whole real World and in Westeros are firstly comncerned are heirs.
A King or any other lord without an heir doesnt hold the loyality of his subjects long. For what are the Lords in Stannis camp fighting when they only pretend to follow the Lord of Light? (And I think the majority is just going with the flow here). It was the prospect of House Barratheon winning and Stannis on the Iron Throne. Sheireen was his heir and would have married someone from the Lords, making him King.
If you have a king without an heir, he probably doesnt have the good of the realm in mind as he grows older. He doesnt work for the inheritence of his heir, he works for himself. He doesnt HAVE anything to work for other than himself.

His camp probably has the following Factions:
- the religious fanatics: they will do what melisandre tells them.
- the ones that want a stable realm: get fucked over by a Stannis having no heir
- the ones who hold the sacred law of feudalism above else: Get fucked over by Stannis having no heir. This would be the faction Stannis himself would be in.
- the opportunists: Have a field day with it. A king with no heir begs to be a dead king so that a Family that is not going extinct can rule the realm. barratheon is going extinct. They probably would get some support from the stable and feudal law guys.

then there is the matter of the grander politics. There is no way he could hold the Iron throne without an heir. The other Great Houses wouldn't wait long to rebell. he cant make alliances.

 

[RyanDG]

You know... Regarding Stannis...

I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but given Martin's love of referencing historical works in ASOIF, tonight's spoiler does make sense...

Spoiler

The story of Agamemnon and Clytemnestra really rings sharp here.

 

[KingHenrik30]

hahaha comically bad. COMICALLY BAD. This show has become funnier than Silicon Valley.

 

[Jigorath]

Man, just a few episodes ago we were so happy D&D were making Stannis a likable character.

 

[Brakke]

"Stannisstan", both the word for people who thought Stannis was a "good guy" *and* a word for the nation they inhabit.

Remember when dude did evil shadow-magic to kill his brother?

 

[crazyrabbits]

So first Barristan got taken out like a bitch in a back alley, alongside the false hope that he would be saved because his throat wasn`t slit. I heard here that it fit the narrative by being ironic. Fine. I didn`t like it, but I accepted it.

Then Sansa gets raped (repeatedly, to boot) by an OP character, taking the place of another character in the books for no real reason (along with changing the characterization for Reek), and all I heard here was that it was good for her growth as a character. Again, hated it (and still do), but went along anyway.

And now

Spoiler

Stannis does a 180 and decides to burn his daughter when he is a day away from Winterfell, because he`s now a supreme pussy after holding out for a year living off rats and onions and his wife is (incredibly) the one to have more emotion and care when confronted with this situation.

It`s like they want to character-assassinate everyone on this show. Seriously.

 

[Jigorath]

"Stannisstan", both the word for people who thought Stannis was a "good guy" *and* a word for the nation they inhabit.

Remember when dude did evil shadow-magic to kill his brother?

You mean the brother that was going to kill him the very next day?

 

[RyanDG]

And now

Spoiler

Stannis does a 180 and decides to burn his daughter when he is a day away from Winterfell, because he`s now a supreme pussy after holding out for a year living off rats and onions and his wife is (incredibly) the one to have more emotion and care when confronted with this situation.

The only unfortunate thing now is that...

Spoiler

Stannis's wife is almost certainly guaranteed to be the one who kills him now. Hope the Stannis book fans are prepared for a AWOW spoiler.

 

[Jigorath]

Spoiler

I'm hoping this is just a stupid ass show change. Book Stannis killing Shireen? No no no no don't do this to me Martin.

 

[schlongdog]

You mean the brother that was going to kill him the very next day?

Yep. It's almost as if he's willing to do horrific things to keep his claim to be the rightful king of Westeros going.

hmm.

 

[Jigorath]

Yep. It's almost as if he's willing to do horrific things to keep his claim to be the rightful king of Westeros going.

hmm.

Spoiler

Bash Stannis for killing his brother all you want but don't give Renly a pass cause he was about to do the exact same thing.

 

[Turin]

Neither one was going to back down but I got the impression Stannis would've rather Renly lived more than Renly cared if Stannis lived.

 

[Jigorath]

Spoiler

So who the fuck am I supposed to root for now? I guess all aboard #teamlannister

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Spoiler

So who the fuck am I supposed to root for now? I guess all aboard #teamlannister

I mean he was never gonna sit on the throne

 

[Brakke]

Stannis's "I'm the rightful king" claim is such a farce lol. "My brother's wife's brother killed the king now you're all duty bound to pay your taxes to me!" smh.

Stan's only a player at all because of his ambition. He's not in it to champion for the good of the realm, to keep the peace for the people: he's in it because hubris.

 

[Lonestar]

regarding heirs.

Spoiler

In the political world you would call Stannis now a lame duck. His fight for the throne is basically over unless he names an heir outside of his Family. He can probably name one of Roberts bastards the heir. But until he does that his Carreer at a wannabe King is OVER!
The one thing that the royals over the whole real World and in Westeros are firstly comncerned are heirs.
A King or any other lord without an heir doesnt hold the loyality of his subjects long. For what are the Lords in Stannis camp fighting when they only pretend to follow the Lord of Light? (And I think the majority is just going with the flow here). It was the prospect of House Barratheon winning and Stannis on the Iron Throne. Sheireen was his heir and would have married someone from the Lords, making him King.
If you have a king without an heir, he probably doesnt have the good of the realm in mind as he grows older. He doesnt work for the inheritence of his heir, he works for himself. He doesnt HAVE anything to work for other than himself.

His camp probably has the following Factions:
- the religious fanatics: they will do what melisandre tells them.
- the ones that want a stable realm: get fucked over by a Stannis having no heir
- the ones who hold the sacred law of feudalism above else: Get fucked over by Stannis having no heir. This would be the faction Stannis himself would be in.
- the opportunists: Have a field day with it. A king with no heir begs to be a dead king so that a Family that is not going extinct can rule the realm. barratheon is going extinct. They probably would get some support from the stable and feudal law guys.

then there is the matter of the grander politics. There is no way he could hold the Iron throne without an heir. The other Great Houses wouldn't wait long to rebell. he cant make alliances.

Spoiler

what does this mean for Dany? Think her ordeal left her barren. At least in the book. Can't remember if that part made it into the show.

 

[Brakke]

what does this mean for Dany? Think her ordeal left her barren. At least in the book. Can't remember if that part made it into the show.

This post isn't a spoiler.

Dany's fertility is pretty unclear but I think it's pretty likely she's capable. Her bleeding at the end of the last book might have been a miscarriage or it might have been a regular menstruation.

Mirri prophesies a bunch of "impossible" things (like the sun('s son) setting in the east) in a way that makes Dany think she's barren now. But all those things end up coming true, so Dany's probably capable (destined, in fact) of carrying a child a term.

 

[munchie64]

Spoiler

Ya know what? I don't mind it that much. I mean I mind it a little, but it's not stopping me from laughing at the rage.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Spoiler

So who the fuck am I supposed to root for now? I guess all aboard #teamlannister

#TeamNightsKing

 

[Dysun]

"Stannisstan", both the word for people who thought Stannis was a "good guy" *and* a word for the nation they inhabit.

Remember when dude did evil shadow-magic to kill his brother?

Hey look, we're back to reducing this all to Good Stannis vs Bad Stannis again like that's the only storybeat at play here

 

[A-V-B]

Hey look, we're back to reducing this all to Good Stannis vs Bad Stannis again like that's the only storybeat at play here

Spoiler

Burns his sick and innocent daughter to death while she screams for her parents to save her.

Few things are clear cut in life.

 

[todd360]

I wasn't expecting to get spoiled on tonight's episode when I came in here. I guess I should have figured something was up when there were black bars everywhere and I was in unmarked book spoiler thread.

How did the episode leak?

 

[Yabberwocky]

What I'm baffled by is that they're putting out a Funko figure for

Spoiler

Stannis later this year. Who's going to the buy the Funko figure of the king who burns his daughter alive? Why bother making one at all?

 

[bengraven]

So...how about next week's episode?

I wasn't expecting to get spoiled on tonight's episode when I came in here. I guess I should have figured something was up when there were black bars everywhere and I was in unmarked book spoiler thread.

How did the episode leak?

Direct TV apparently.

 

[Forkball]

Daredevil's pretty good. I recommend everyone check it out.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

So...how about next week's episode?




Direct TV apparently.

It was Dish on Demand or something like that

Avoiding all social media until I watch it lol.

Besides Gaf.