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[TheOctodad]

Spoiler

Yeah, because burning innocent kids is definitely following the laws of the land to the letter.

Spoiler

And assassinating your brother? Being willing to sacrifice a young bastard boy? Stannis is pragmatic, willing to do the hard thing for the "greater good." In his mind the greatest good of the realm is for the rightful king to be on the throne, which is him. He is willing to set his emotions aside to make this happen. In his head, his daughter and all of them are dead if he doesn't do this. He is not really a morally good man, he's a man with a singular, unwavering vision. There's a difference.

 

[Iksenpets]

Spoiler

with what use?

Spoiler

A desperate gambit to revive him? Or to aid him. Even if they find out that he's alive, and find out his location, there's no way they can make it to him in time in the snowstorm. If Mel believes they can aid him from afar with the sacrifice, she'll do it right then and there. Or maybe she thinks they have to clear the snows just to get to his army to help him, and need the sacrifice for that.

Spoiler

And assassinating your brother? Being willing to sacrifice a young bastard boy? Stannis is pragmatic, willing to do the hard thing for the "greater good." In his mind the greatest good of the realm is for the rightful king to be on the throne, which is him. He is willing to set his emotions aside to make this happen. In his head, his daughter and all of them are dead if he doesn't do this. He is not really a morally good man, he's a man with a singular, unwavering vision. There's a difference.

Spoiler

He's willing to do terrible things, but this sacrifice is just short sighted. All the decisions he's made are in vain if he loses his dynasty. The whole thing is pointless if he has no heir. He's here to secure his rights, which includes his daughter's rights as heir. He's never been so focused on the Azor Ahai stuff that he'd sacrifice his hold on the throne to do it. The throne has always come first. Without Shireen, he's dooming everyone to another civil war immediately after his death.

 

[suzu]

I don't think anyone loves Stannis because he is "good," we love from a book perspective because he is honest, is all about justice, and appears to have very little self ambition doing what he does out of a sense of duty not pure selfish motivations.

Spoiler

It's not like we're shocked he's burning someone, he fucking burnt his previous Hand (a Florent), it's that his burning Shireen comes out of nowhere and is not indicative of his character, it's a cheap shock. It's hard to imagine a man so devoted to family, duty, and justice would willingly sacrifice his daughter to clear up some weather. This is a man who in the books, despite the EXTREMELY harsh conditions of the weather refuses to burn a single unbeliever in his army. Who tells one of his knights that if he dies in battle to continue fighting to put Shireen on the throne. Who one of the reasons he actually burnt his previous Hand was because he tried to negotiate having Shireen married off to one of the incest bred, bastard born Lannisters. And, if we are still going by the books a man who agonized over burning Edric Storm and who we never learn what he would have decided. Davos takes him away before Stannis can even make the decision. But, now in the show this experienced battle commander is willing to burn his very own daughter to clear up some weather and achieve victory. That is why people are upset. It's inconsistent not because Stannis was some paragon of goodness.

This! \o/

Spoiler

Show Stannis is more wishy-washy with his decisions I guess.

 

[Moff]

I don't think anyone loves Stannis because he is "good," we love from a book perspective because he is honest, is all about justice, and appears to have very little self ambition doing what he does out of a sense of duty not pure selfish motivations.

Spoiler

It's not like we're shocked he's burning someone, he fucking burnt his previous Hand (a Florent), it's that his burning Shireen comes out of nowhere and is not indicative of his character, it's a cheap shock. It's hard to imagine a man so devoted to family, duty, and justice would willingly sacrifice his daughter to clear up some weather. This is a man who in the books, despite the EXTREMELY harsh conditions of the weather refuses to burn a single unbeliever in his army. Who tells one of his knights that if he dies in battle to continue fighting to put Shireen on the throne. Who one of the reasons he actually burnt his previous Hand was because he tried to negotiate having Shireen married off to one of the incest bred, bastard born Lannisters. And, if we are still going by the books a man who agonized over burning Edric Storm and who we never learn what he would have decided. Davos takes him away before Stannis can even make the decision. But, now in the show this experienced battle commander is willing to burn his very own daughter to clear up some weather and achieve victory. That is why people are upset. It's inconsistent not because Stannis was some paragon of goodness.

Spoiler

lets just assume for a minute that stannis indeed survives the battle in the snowstorm in the books, and manages to repell the boltons. but in the process his troops and supplies are that decimated, that every day in that snowstorm brings them closer to certain death, fast.
if he would have the choice between saving himself and his army and saving shireen, what would the man you describe do?

 

[Real Hero]

Spoiler

“It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert’s heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son." He ran three fingers lightly down the table, over the layers of smooth hard varnish, dark with age. “I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother.

Spoiler

“It may be that we shall lose this battle,” the king said grimly. “In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless.”

The knight hesitated. “Your Grace, if you are dead —”

“— you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.”

 

[Zolo]

Just grabbed a quote from the wiki.

Spoiler

"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident." - Stannis Baratheon, Storm of Swords

Edit: lol somehow got beaten.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Spoiler

lets just assume for a minute that stannis indeed survives the battle in the snowstorm in the books, and manages to repell the boltons. but in the process his troops and supplies are that decimated, that every day in that snowstorm brings them closer to certain death, fast.
if he would have the choice between saving himself and his army and saving shireen, what would the man you describe do?

Spoiler

Stannis would attack Winterfell rather than wait around for his supplies to be completely drained or have them refurnished or he would burn Theon or Asha. Also, what is the Lord of Light going to do, have food rain down from the skies? Clearing the weather doesn't solve the supply problem, either way he has to attack,

 

[Iksenpets]

Spoiler

“It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert’s heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son." He ran three fingers lightly down the table, over the layers of smooth hard varnish, dark with age. “I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother.

Spoiler

“It may be that we shall lose this battle,” the king said grimly. “In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless.”

The knight hesitated. “Your Grace, if you are dead —”

“— you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.”

Spoiler

Man, that first quote. Note that duty to his daughter came before duty to the realm. It's the same as his decision to support Robert's Rebellion. Familial duty trumps legal duty. And before the Renly example comes up, that's exactly why Renly had to be dealt with harshly. He violated the most fundamental law. I think he was even worse than Joffrey and Cersei in Stannis' book. And he still have him a chance to stand down before he did it.

 

[Dysun]

I don't think anyone loves Stannis because he is "good," we love from a book perspective because he is honest, is all about justice, and appears to have very little self ambition doing what he does out of a sense of duty not pure selfish motivations.

Spoiler

It's not like we're shocked he's burning someone, he fucking burnt his previous Hand (a Florent), it's that his burning Shireen comes out of nowhere and is not indicative of his character, it's a cheap shock. It's hard to imagine a man so devoted to family, duty, and justice would willingly sacrifice his daughter to clear up some weather. This is a man who in the books, despite the EXTREMELY harsh conditions of the weather refuses to burn a single unbeliever in his army. Who tells one of his knights that if he dies in battle to continue fighting to put Shireen on the throne. Who one of the reasons he actually burnt his previous Hand was because he tried to negotiate having Shireen married off to one of the incest bred, bastard born Lannisters. And, if we are still going by the books a man who agonized over burning Edric Storm and who we never learn what he would have decided. Davos takes him away before Stannis can even make the decision. But, now in the show this experienced battle commander is willing to burn his very own daughter to clear up some weather and achieve victory. That is why people are upset. It's inconsistent not because Stannis was some paragon of goodness.

Spoiler

Well said, I hate the reductive discussion of good vs bad Stannis like if that's the sole reason for people being upset about this storybeat.

 

[Moff]

Spoiler

Stannis would attack Winterfell rather than wait around for his supplies to be completely drained or have them refurnished or he would burn Theon or Asha. Also, what is the Lord of Light going to do, have food rain down from the skies? Clearing the weather doesn't solve the supply problem, either way he has to attack,

Spoiler

they can't move in the snowstorm, isn't that the whole point of them waiting? he would have marched a long time ago if that was an option. clearing the weather makes that possible.
not sure if theon and asha work, it's a good point though.

 

[Hex]

Spoiler

A desperate gambit to revive him? Or to aid him. Even if they find out that he's alive, and find out his location, there's no way they can make it to him in time in the snowstorm. If Mel believes they can aid him from afar with the sacrifice, she'll do it right then and there. Or maybe she thinks they have to clear the snows just to get to his army to help him, and need the sacrifice for that.

Spoiler

He's willing to do terrible things, but this sacrifice is just short sighted. All the decisions he's made are in vain if he loses his dynasty. The whole thing is pointless if he has no heir. He's here to secure his rights, which includes his daughter's rights as heir. He's never been so focused on the Azor Ahai stuff that he'd sacrifice his hold on the throne to do it. The throne has always come first. Without Shireen, he's dooming everyone to another civil war immediately after his death.

Spoiler

A daughter will do nothing for his Dynasty, she would marry a man and that man's dynasty would move forward and not Stannis. Unless he has a son, he is his legacy.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

black bars, black bars everywhere

 

[Real Hero]

Spoiler

A daughter will do nothing for his Dynasty, she would marry a man and that man's dynasty would move forward and not Stannis. Unless he has a son, he is his legacy.

Spoiler

Yet he still wants his daughter on the throne if he dies. Clearly he feels as much of duty to do that as himself being on the throne.

 

[Iksenpets]

Spoiler

A daughter will do nothing for his Dynasty, she would marry a man and that man's dynasty would move forward and not Stannis. Unless he has a son, he is his legacy.

Spoiler

He directly states that she is his heir on multiple occasions. He orders his men that if he should die they're to continue fighting for Shireen. She's not an ideal heir, but she's what he has and he affords her the respect that warrants. There are plenty of examples of men who marry above their station, like someone marrying a princess, taking the wife's family name to continue the superior legacy. Both the Starks and Lannisters have passed through a female heir at one point or another.

 

[Zolo]

Spoiler

Chances are there's also probably circumstances where the guy would just take on the Baratheon name anyway.

 

[Judderman]

Spoiler

“It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert’s heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son." He ran three fingers lightly down the table, over the layers of smooth hard varnish, dark with age. “I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother.

Spoiler

“It may be that we shall lose this battle,” the king said grimly. “In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless.”

The knight hesitated. “Your Grace, if you are dead —”

“— you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.”

 

[Morts]

Why all the leaks this week?

 

[Moff]

Spoiler

book readers will be pleasantly surprised that stannis burning shireen is not even the dumbest book change in that episode

 

[Kain]

Just grabbed a quote from the wiki.

Spoiler

"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean. As Robert should have done after the Trident." - Stannis Baratheon, Storm of Swords

Edit: lol somehow got beaten.

THE KING WE DESERVE DAMN IT

 

[foxtrot3d]

Spoiler

they can't move in the snowstorm, isn't that the whole point of them waiting? he would have marched a long time ago if that was an option. clearing the weather makes that possible.
not sure if theon and asha work, it's a good point though.

Spoiler

If Mance Rayder could have worked why not Theon or Asha? They both have "King's Blood." Also I just want to add some more Stannis quotes regarding Renly since people forget that Stannis agonizes and regrets what happened:

"I dream of it sometimes. Of Renly's dying. A green tent, candles, a woman screaming. And blood." Stannis looked down at his hands. "I was still abed when he died. Your Devan will tell you. He tried to wake me. Dawn was nigh and my lords were waiting, fretting. I should have been ahorse, armored. I knew Renly would attack at break of day. Devan says I thrashed and cried out, but what does it matter? It was a dream. I was in my tent when Renly died, and when I woke my hands were clean."

"Renly offered me a peach. At our parley. Mocked me, defied me, threatened me, and offered me a peach. I thought he was drawing a blade and went for mine own. Was that his purpose, to make me show fear? Or was it one of his pointless jests? When he spoke of how sweet the peach was, did his words have some hidden meaning?" The king gave a shake of his head, like a dog shaking a rabbit to snap its neck. "Only Renly could vex me so with a piece of fruit. He brought his doom on himself with his treason, but I did love him, Davos. I know that now. I swear, I will go to my grave thinking of my brother's peach."

 

[Iksenpets]

Leak:

Spoiler

If this actually is where the books are going, I think it's just as big a fuck up for GRRM as it is for D&D. If he developed Stannis so consistently one way just so it would be more shocking when this happens, that's pretty shit writing. D&D at least have the excuse that they've always developed him as an easily swayed ass who will sacrifice anyone for just about anything. He doesn't even bring up that Balon is still alive to argue against Mel. He just does it.

 

[suzu]

Ramsay Bolton

Spoiler

is the chosen one.

 

[Patriots7]

Spoiler

Man, that first quote. Note that duty to his daughter came before duty to the realm. It's the same as his decision to support Robert's Rebellion. Familial duty trumps legal duty. And before the Renly example comes up, that's exactly why Renly had to be dealt with harshly. He violated the most fundamental law. I think he was even worse than Joffrey and Cersei in Stannis' book. And he still have him a chance to stand down before he did it.

Oh for fucks sake.
Renly declared himself King before Stannis, through conquest, not through birthright.
He did not seek to steal the throne from Stannis. In fact, he never wanted the throne to begin with. He wanted to marry Margaery to Robert. When that failed he planned on protecting Joffrey from any Lannister influence. When Ned was stupid and that failed, he then declared himself king, assembling an army that Stannis could never have.
When he declareD himself king, he didn't know that Joffrey was illegitimate.
And even with all that. Renly never wanted to kill Stannis. If Stannis had slain Renly during battle, maybe I could understand that. But he knew he was about to get that work and was fine sacrificing his brother for the throne.

Stannis decided to mope in Dragonstone for a year before deciding to do anything with the knowledge that he and Jon Arryn gained.

Of all of D&D's changes, this is what we care about?

 

[Masaki_]

you guys are really fucking bad at spoiler tags. it's fine if the last 5 pages have to be black bars, better that than have an important event carelessly spoiled

 

[Moff]

Spoiler

If Mance Rayder could have worked why not Theon or Asha? They both have "King's Blood."

Spoiler

as I said, I agree, it's a good point, maybe theon and asha get away in the snow storm. we'll see. what I wanted to know from you is, if book stannis was somehow put in that position of certain death or sacrificing shireen, if he would do it or choose death for all of them. considering that melisandre would have brought shireen to him. just hypothetically.

 

[Look! The Pie!]

Spoiler

Okay, I was doubtful D&D would include a Sansa rape. But I never, EVER expected them to actually burn Shireen. I mean, it's probably going to happen in TWOW, but as others have already pointed out, freaking Stannis won't be the one behind it. Way to completely fuck up Show!Stannis after finally making him somewhat likeable, guys.

Not sure if I can even watch the scene. It just seems like a step too far for the sake of being shocking and edgy. I get that "bad things happen to good people" is basically the selling point of the show at this point, but you can only go to the well so many times before people start to get pissed off. I think this one death is going to be too much for a LOT of people (unsullied in particular) to stomach, and that's not even taking into account Jon's assassination next episode.

Once this episode airs, someone needs to update that hilarious "Olenna looking out the carriage window and seeing the Sand Snakes" GIF with

Spoiler

Shireen burning

.

 

[Real Hero]

Oh for fucks sake.
Renly declared himself King before Stannis, through conquest, not through birthright.
He did not seek to steal the throne from Stannis. In fact, he never wanted the throne to begin with. He wanted to marry Margaery to Robert. When that failed he planned on protecting Joffrey from any Lannister influence. When Ned was stupid and that failed, he then declared himself king, assembling an army that Stannis could never have.
When he declareD himself king, he didn't know that Joffrey was illegitimate.
And even with all that. Renly never wanted to kill Stannis. If Stannis had slain Renly during battle, maybe I could understand that. But he knew he was about to get that work and was fine sacrificing his brother for the throne.

Stannis decided to mope in Dragonstone for a year before deciding to do anything with the knowledge that he and Jon Arryn gained.

Of all of D&D's changes, this is what we care about?

That doesn't go against anything he said? He's looking at it how Stannis did

 

[Partition]

It seems to me that

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen is just a ploy to get people to dislike Stannis, so we will be okay with Brienne killing him off (otherwise then everyone would have hated Brienne cuz she killed a good guy who was helping take back Winterfell). They are condensing Stannis' story by having him die early

 

[Real Hero]

It seems to me that

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen is just a ploy to get people to dislike Stannis, so we will be okay with Brienne killing him off (otherwise then everyone would have hated Brienne cuz she killed a good guy who was helping take back Winterfell). They are condensing Stannis' story by having him die early

I think this is exactly right. Just like how they played down him saving the wall.

 

[Zolo]

It seems to me that

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen is just a ploy to get people to dislike Stannis, so we will be okay with Brienne killing him off (otherwise then everyone would have hated Brienne cuz she killed a good guy who was helping take back Winterfell). They are condensing Stannis' story by having him die early

Spoiler

Kinda how Renly was made into more of an overall good character in the show to contrast against his evil brother, Stannis.

Edit:

Spoiler

Damn! Another example right above again! It sucks to be Stannis in the show!

 

[TheOctodad]

It seems to me that

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen is just a ploy to get people to dislike Stannis, so we will be okay with Brienne killing him off (otherwise then everyone would have hated Brienne cuz she killed a good guy who was helping take back Winterfell). They are condensing Stannis' story by having him die early

Spoiler

I agree this is most likely the case. Which I am ok with from a show perspective. Show Stannis has always been a bit less ... considerate. In the end I think his fate will be similar. But book readers comparing their Stannis to show Stannis are bound to be disappointed. Mel will probably kill Shireen in the books and then Stannis will die some other way eventually. In the end, it's condensed, but the same basic outcome. Stannis is just not going to be as loved as a character in the show. But ultimately, he will be a dead end either way...

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Yeah I'm fucking done. That is some complete bullshit.

 

[Real Hero]

Spoiler

I agree this is most likely the case. Which I am ok with from a show perspective. Show Stannis has always been a bit less ... considerate. In the end I think his fate will be similar. But book readers comparing their Stannis to show Stannis are bound to be disappointed. Mel will probably kill Shireen in the books and then Stannis will die some other way eventually. In the end, it's condensed, but the same basic outcome. Stannis is just not going to be as loved as a character in the show. But ultimately, he will be a dead end either way...

I'm less interested in the outcome and how well and interesting the story being told is (not saying the books always do this better) . I don't really have any reason to accept a condensed version that sacrifices character subtleties at what seems to be an increasing rate. Yet I'm not going to stop watching five seasons in so it's not like it has put me off that much I suppose

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Spoiler

If you are a guy who raises a man to a lord for saving your ass, but cuts off his finger for having been a smuggler in the past, what would you do about a man who had the strength to take a throne, but committed filicide to do so?

 

[cj_iwakura]

What in the fresh hell, the last ten pages have turned into a minefield. Unmarked and untagged speculation/leak discussion, WTF. Get it together.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Oh for fucks sake.
Renly declared himself King before Stannis, through conquest, not through birthright.
He did not seek to steal the throne from Stannis. In fact, he never wanted the throne to begin with. He wanted to marry Margaery to Robert. When that failed he planned on protecting Joffrey from any Lannister influence. When Ned was stupid and that failed, he then declared himself king, assembling an army that Stannis could never have.
When he declareD himself king, he didn't know that Joffrey was illegitimate.
And even with all that. Renly never wanted to kill Stannis. If Stannis had slain Renly during battle, maybe I could understand that. But he knew he was about to get that work and was fine sacrificing his brother for the throne.

Stannis decided to mope in Dragonstone for a year before deciding to do anything with the knowledge that he and Jon Arryn gained.

Of all of D&D's changes, this is what we care about?

What are you talking about? Renly's actions make him a real scumbag and of course he wanted to be King, he says so himself.

-He first attempted to marry Margaery to Robert even going so far as asking if she looked like Lyanna to Ned's face. This is a man who was trying to manipulate his brother into putting aside Cercei and marrying Marg by trying to convince him that she looked like his dead love. Him planning this was likely an attempt to gain more power since the Tyrells would be grateful to him for arranging the marriage.
-When Robert dies he attempts to steal the throne from Joffery who for all his knowledge he believes to be the rightful heir. He's not doing so to protect Joffery but so that he can rule through the boy, essentially holding him hostage.
-When Ned refuses he flees the city, marries Marg himself, and declares himself King all the whole still not knowing that Joff is a bastard and knowing full well that his brother Stannis is the Elder.
-When he speaks with Catelyn about his claim this is his response:

"He is still your elder brother. If either of you can be said to have a right to the Iron Throne, it must be Lord Stannis."
Renly shrugged. "Tell me, what right did my brother Robert ever have to the Iron Throne?" He did not wait for an answer. "Oh, there was talk of the blood ties between Baratheon and Targaryen, of weddings a hundred years past, of second sons and elder daughters. No one but the maesters care about any of it. Robert won the throne with his warhammer." He swept a hand across the campfires that burned from horizon to horizon. "Well, there is my claim, as good as Robert's ever was. If your son supports me as his father supported Robert, he'll not find me ungenerous. I will gladly confirm him in all his lands, titles, and honors. He can rule in Winterfell as he pleases. He can even go on calling himself King in the North if he likes, so long as he bends the knee and does me homage as his overlord. King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service . . . those I must have."

-When treating with Robert this was part of their exchange:

"I propose that you dismount, bend your knee, and swear me your allegiance."
Stannis choked back rage. "That you shall never have."
"You served Robert, why not me?"
"Robert was my elder brother. You are the younger."
"Younger, bolder, and far more comely..."
"...and a theif and a usurper besides."
Renly shrugged. "The Targaryens called Robert usurper. He seemed to be able to bear the same. So shall I."

...

"All this of snakes and incest is droll, but it changes nothing. You may well have the better claim, Stannis, but I still have the larger army."

And the final line which proves that Renly fully intended for Stannis to die during the battle:

"That was amusing, if not terribly profitable," he commented. "I wonder where I can get a sword like that? Well, doubtless Loras will make a gift of it after the battle. It grieves me that it must come to this."
"You have a cheerful way of grieving," said Catelyn, whose distress was not feigned.
"Do I?" Renly shrugged. "So be it. Stannis was never the most cherished of brothers, I confess. Do you suppose this tale of his is true? If Joffrey is the Kingslayer's get—"
"—your brother is the lawful heir."
"While he lives," Renly admitted. "Though it's a fool's law, wouldn't you agree? Why the oldest son, and not the best-fitted? The crown will suit me, as it never suited Robert and would not suit Stannis. I have it in me to be a great king, strong yet generous, clever, just, diligent, loyal to my friends and terrible to my enemies, yet capable of forgiveness, patient—"
"—humble?" Catelyn supplied.

Renly may have been an alright King, but he was a dick and expected Stannis to die during the battle so he could usurp him.

 

[Violater]

Spoiler

I'm now just shaking my head at all the people who tried to put Stannis on a pedestal for being super loving and loyal to his daughter.

 

[biosnake20]

Spoiler

If you are a guy who raises a man to a lord for saving your ass, but cuts off his finger for having been a smuggler in the past, what would you do about a man who had the strength to take a throne, but committed filicide to do so?

Spoiler

Stannis is going to get the throne then commit suicide.

 

[A-V-B]

No one. They're all fuck ups.

The one true king of Westeros:

Spoiler

Night's King

This is the conclusion I'm steadily coming to.

What was it Ripley said?

"You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."

 

[Speevy]

This entire thread should be redacted.


Ban us all and leave a feast for the crows.

 

[Kain]

This entire thread should be redacted.


Ban us all and leave a feast for the crows.

I aprove of this.

 

[WrenchNinja]

This entire thread should be redacted.


Ban us all and leave a feast for the crows.

It's a time for wolves now.

 

[suzu]

Spoiler

I'm now just shaking my head at all the people who tried to put Stannis on a pedestal for being super loving and loyal to his daughter.

Spoiler

Well, book Stannis is pretty damn sure about Shireen being his heir. The show version seemed to be heading that direction with his recent talk with her..

Also, who would have thought Selyse would be the one who is taking the sacrifice the hardest? I guess being a "MOM" finally kicked in...? :|

We should've seen this coming since the show writers hate Stannis. lol

 

[Iksenpets]

Spoiler

Well, book Stannis is pretty damn sure about Shireen being his heir. The show version seemed to be heading that direction with his recent talk with her..

Also, who would have thought Selyse would be the one who is taking the sacrifice the hardest? I guess being a "MOM" finally kicked in...? :|

We should've seen this coming since the show writers hate Stannis. lol

Spoiler

Yeah, they sure love those moments when your inner mom just bursts out and completely reverses your character development, lol.

 

[Masaki_]

This entire thread should be redacted.


Ban us all and leave a feast for the crows.

hey, not me, im not a dumb motherfucker who doesnt know how to spoiler tag!

 

[WaffleTaco]

Spoiler

is this 100% confirmed, or is it her just being tied up?

 

[A-V-B]

This entire thread should be redacted.


Ban us all and leave a feast for the crows.

Winter is come!

 

[biosnake20]

Spoiler

Yeah, they sure love those moments when your inner mom just bursts out and completely reverses your character development, lol.

Spoiler

Well the Selyse thing isn't that crazy. Yeah she was totally ready to burn her daughter but saying something and then seeing it happen in front of you are two completely different things. Just like Stannis was totally down to kill his brother then heavily regretted it after the fact.

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Haven't seen the leaks, so I'll reserve judgement until the actual episode comes out.

That being said:

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen sounds like some super bullshit. It would contradict basically his entire character in the books and even some of his show persona. Hoping it's just a grand internet conspiracy to make the writers look bad.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Haven't seen the leaks, so I'll reserve judgement until the actual episode comes out.

That being said:

Spoiler

Stannis burning Shireen sounds like some super bullshit. It would contradict basically his entire character in the books and even some of his show persona. Hoping it's just a grand internet conspiracy to make the writers look bad.

Spoiler

NOPE. It's Not A Giant Internet Conspiracy.