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[Eidan]

The show has been committing massive character changes all season long. Sansa, Jaime, Barristan, Littlefinger, need I go on?

I don't remember anything on the level of changing the story so a father kills his only child, so please do.

 

[Blue Ninja]

It's gonna be so weird seeing Bran again next season. He'll have a full beard by then.

Unless they just decide to recast him. Would be weird, though.

 

[Tubie]

Fuck man I'm still upset about this. I decided not to even post anything last night after the episode because I was way too pissed off.

And I can't really believe it's coming from future book material, what he did makes even less sense in the book world.

 

[Damerman]

for being bad TV?

bad TV is a bit much, no?

 

[blackjaw]

i highly doubt that he is dead.

I watched it again, no blood...dude is alive and well and ruling the harpies

 

[Arkeband]

Just wait until the onion knight gets near Stannis.

Robert Strong is Havel the Rock. It is known.

I'm a few pages behind the thread but I just hit this post.

I now want Robert Strong's entrance to not begin with the heavy footfalls of a plated zombie giant, but for him to fatroll up the steps, do the "Well, what is it?" gesture and then put Cersei over his shoulder and sprint into the Sept.

 

[Massa]

Insulting people like that for wanting clarification before saying one thing or the other is childish. The show is not the books, and nothing in ADWD or TWoW would lead anyone to believe this was the next move for Stannis. No one was even suggesting it before this episode, and the huge divergence between S5 and the books has been the main topic of discussion among readers all season long. Sansa being married to Ramsay doesn't mean that'll happen in the books, same with Jaime in Dorne or Barristan getting killed in a tunnel. "George told us about this" is too vague to make any definitive statement.

Didn't mean to offend, I was speaking from my own perspective since the leak.

 

[Jigorath]

This thread is getting tense. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya.

 

[Damerman]

Insulting people like that for wanting clarification before saying one thing or the other is childish. The show is not the books, and nothing in ADWD or TWoW would lead anyone to believe this was the next move for Stannis. No one was even suggesting it before this episode, and the huge divergence between S5 and the books has been the main topic of discussion among readers all season long. Sansa being married to Ramsay doesn't mean that'll happen in the books, same with Jaime in Dorne or Barristan getting killed in a tunnel. "George told us about this" is too vague to make any definitive statement.

lol you are in denial. " too vauge to make definitive statement." People have been talking about stannis burning shireen ever since he took her with him on his march to winterfel. you're criticism about character bipolarity seems more like an emotional attachment to the book.

 

[Kuroyume]

what do you expect from a show about tens of POV characters with only 50mins of time? you people are annoying as fuck.

Maybe not spend 2 or 3 minutes showing the Sandsnakes slapping each other around? Or the Meryn scene? Pretty sure people know he's a scumbag at this point. Guess knowing he's a pedo adds something? ::shrug::

 

[KingRagnar]

lol you are in denial. " too vauge to make definitive statement." People have been talking about stannis burning shireen ever since he took her with him on his march to winterfel. you're criticism about character bipolarity seems more like an emotional attachment to the book.

He didn't take her to Winterfell in the books. Also, you don't know how to spell.

 

[Damerman]

Maybe not spend 2 or 3 minutes showing the Sandsnakes slapping each other around? Or the Meryn scene? Pretty sure people know he's a scumbag at this point. Guess knowing he's a pedo adds something? ::shrug::

i can definitely agree that a bunch of scenes seem like a massive waste of time when they have so much material to get through, but to utterly dismiss the show when you were crying over the goodness of it last week is very weird.

 

[schlongdog]

Maybe not spend 2 or 3 minutes showing the Sandsnakes slapping each other around? Or the Meryn scene? Pretty sure people know he's a scumbag at this point. Guess knowing he's a pedo adds something? ::shrug::

While I thought it was totally OTT, I did see posts in the other thread that said they didn't remember why they were supposed to hate the guy.

 

[Basileus777]

Maybe not spend 2 or 3 minutes showing the Sandsnakes slapping each other around? Or the Meryn scene? Pretty sure people know he's a scumbag at this point. Guess knowing he's a pedo adds something? ::shrug::

Adding up a bunch of marginal scenes isn't a good way to go about this, but yeah, Dorne should have been cut from the show.

 

[KingRagnar]

I don't remember anything on the level of changing the story so a father kills his only child, so please do.

Sansa being raped by Ramsay every night instead of safely in the Eyrie is on the same level. Jaime in Dorne doing fuck all instead of turning down Cersei's letter is on the same level.

 

[Kain]

I hope someday show Mel and Stannis die a horrible painful death. This has been too fucking much.

Fuck this show.

 

[Moff]

4) it was George (even though he has nothing to do with the show these days)

well it's true that GRRM has other things to take care off at the moment, but that doesn't mean D&D don't follow his roadmap to a certain degree. I don't think the end will differ that much. it's certainly debatable if stannis decision is small enough to simply change it.
at the moment, I think both is as alikely as the other.

but why would they change it in the first place? is the shock value really higher, burning shireen by stannis vs. burning her witthout stannis? I don't think so.
I know some people like so see D&D as complete hacks who love nothing more than butchering favourite book characters. but as I already pointed out, I actually think they did stannis justice so far. show watcher didnt like him up until the end of season 4, just like book readers didn't like him up until the end of ASOS. both show watchers as well as readers liked him in season 6 up until now. even elio&linda praised his scene with shireen in episode 4.

so if not for shock value, why change a character they did justice so far?
I think they don't change him. I think stannis' inner conflict was always a huge part of him. and choosing the greater good and the red god over his own daughter and make the biggest sacrifice is neither unlikely nor bad writing. I think most readers in here are simply upset that one of the characters they rooted for is now a lot less likeable, but that doesnt mean it's actually bad writing. and now of course they blame D&D for it because we do not know what will happen in TWOW. personally I think it's a great plot to confront stannis with such a decision.

I am very excited to pick up that discussion again when we read what happens in TWOW.

 

[Damerman]

He didn't take her to Winterfell in the books. Also, you don't know how to spell.

proving my point about your attachment to the books. Book stannis is different from show stannis.

also, w/e.

 

[Red Arremer]

I'll watch the season finale. After that, I will decide whether to drop the show or continue watching it. I'm very close to dropping it right now. Episode 8 seemed like a redemption, but this was just trash. Like, did anything really interesting even happen, aside from the burning (which was awful) and the last scene (and even that was kinda lame, theSons of the Harpy are so exaggerated in the show. Aren't they supposed to be some fatass nobles that had slaves serve them all their lives? Why can they outfight Unsullied, who are supposed to be the most effective soldiers in the world?)?

While I thought it was totally OTT, I did see posts in the other thread that said they didn't remember why they were supposed to hate the guy.

The fact he beat up Sansa for Joffrey and that he was giving testimony against Tyrion at his trial wasn't enough, clearly. <.<

 

[BoogerFart]

Are you people really that mad? Like legit angry? Or is it just something to write about on a forum?

 

[Damerman]

well it's true that GRRM has other things to take care off at the moment, but that doesn't mean D&D don't follow his roadmap to a certain degree. I don't think the end will differ that much. it's certainly debatable if stannis decision is small enough to simply change it.
at the moment, I think both is as alikely as the other.

but why would they change it in the first place? is the shock value really higher, burning shireen by stannis vs. burning her witthout stannis? I don't think so.
I know some people like so see D&D as complete hacks who love nothing more than butchering favourite book characters. but as I already pointed out, I actually think they did stannis justice so far. show watcher didnt like him up until the end of season 4, just like book readers didn't like him up until the end of ASOS. both show watchers as well as readers liked him in season 6 up until now. even elio&linda praised his scene with shireen in episode 4.

so if not for shock value, why change a character they did justice so far?
I think they don't change him. I think stannis' inner conflict was always a huge part of him. and choosing the greater good and the red god over his own daughter and make the biggest sacrifice is neither unlikely nor bad writing. I think most readers in here are simply upset that one of the characters they rooted for is now a lot less likeable, but that doesnt mean it's actually bad writing. and now of course they blame D&D for it because we do not know what will happen in TWOW. personally I think it's a great plot to confront stannis with such a decision.

I am very excited to pick up that discussion again when we read what happens in TWOW.

damn, i wish i had your grace and eloquence(not referencing tyrion here). Agreed.

 

[KingRagnar]

proving my point about your attachment to the books. Book stannis is different from show stannis.

also, w/e.

What are you talking about? The point is that someone said if show Stannis killed his daughter, book Stannis will too. I was countering that. Did you get confused?

 

[ChaosZeroX]

This season has made me feel the same as when I read ADWD. It even felt like GRRM was lost when he was writing ADWD.

Hopefully with Bran coming back next season + Euron, D&D start to fucking actually progress storylines.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Goodbye Stannis

#teamjonsnownow

 

[Eidan]

Sansa being raped by Ramsay every night instead of safely in the Eyrie is on the same level. Jaime in Dorne doing fuck all instead of turning down Cersei's letter is on the same level.

I'll agree that Sansa instead going to Winterfell instead of dealing with the Harry the Heir nonsense was a big change (and a smart one IMO). I don't consider it to be on the scale of deciding to have a character murder their child, but that could just be me.

As for Jaime in Dorne, that's a weak example. Instead of having Jaime dick around in the riverlands he's dicking around in Sunspear. Nothing in that change prevents him from arriving at the exact same place in terms of his character and his relation to Cersei, that arrives at in the book.

 

[KingRagnar]

I'll agree that Sansa instead going to Winterfell instead of dealing with the Harry the Heir nonsense was a big change (and a smart one IMO). I don't consider it to be on the scale of deciding to have a character murder their child, but that could just be me.

As for Jaime in Dorne, that's a weak example. Instead of having Jaime dick around in the riverlands he's dicking around in Sunspear. Nothing in that change prevents him from arriving at the exact same place in terms of his character and his relation to Cersei, that arrives at in the book.

Jaime had an entire arc where he turned against Cersei, it's absent here. That's a huge change.

 

[Eidan]

well it's true that GRRM has other things to take care off at the moment, but that doesn't mean D&D don't follow his roadmap to a certain degree. I don't think the end will differ that much. it's certainly debatable if stannis decision is small enough to simply change it.
at the moment, I think both is as alikely as the other.

but why would they change it in the first place? is the shock value really higher, burning shireen by stannis vs. burning her witthout stannis? I don't think so.
I know some people like so see D&D as complete hacks who love nothing more than butchering favourite book characters. but as I already pointed out, I actually think they did stannis justice so far. show watcher didnt like him up until the end of season 4, just like book readers didn't like him up until the end of ASOS. both show watchers as well as readers liked him in season 6 up until now. even elio&linda praised his scene with shireen in episode 4.

so if not for shock value, why change a character they did justice so far?
I think they don't change him. I think stannis' inner conflict was always a huge part of him. and choosing the greater good and the red god over his own daughter and make the biggest sacrifice is neither unlikely nor bad writing. I think most readers in here are simply upset that one of the characters they rooted for is now a lot less likeable, but that doesnt mean it's actually bad writing. and now of course they blame D&D for it because we do not know what will happen in TWOW. personally I think it's a great plot to confront stannis with such a decision.

I am very excited to pick up that discussion again when we read what happens in TWOW.

You're right. This conflict has been central to Stannis' character throughout the story. This was always coming people.

"I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice."

 

[Woody Invincible]

No doubt about it now, Brienne is killing the Mannis.

 

[Eidan]

Jaime had an entire arc where he turned against Cersei, it's absent here. That's a huge change.

You're really talking about something happening now vs. later. It's not a huge change.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Jaime had an entire arc where he turned against Cersei, it's absent here. That's a huge change.

Not only that, Jaime got shit done in the Riverlands. He found out that he is capable of being a leader and commander. He found that he can still be effective at warfare without his sword hand. His Riverlands arc completes the transformation of his character. Any and all character development was absent from his arc this season. It's not that it's a book change, it's that his entire season this year was pointless.

 

[Red Arremer]

If you look at many of my posts in last season's thread, you'll see me as a big proponent of "the show is the show, the books are the books". And while I'm upset over the show's failure to characterize Stannis (and many other characters such as Jaime) properly, I'm mostly upset over the incoherence the show has with itself.

Why even have the whole Dorne plot if it amounts to literally nothing? Wouldn't it be wiser to just send Jaime off to replace Balon Swann and have the rest of the plot happen off-screen? The only really important aspect that happened was that Trystane is going to take Oberyn's seat in the small council. Couldn't we have had scenes in King's Landing for that, instead of this utter bullshit?

 

[StriKeVillain]

bad TV is a bit much, no?

I don't think so, personally I think we've only gotten one good episode this entire season. The rest have been mediocre and some especially bad.

 

[Veritigo_X]

No doubt about it now, Brienne is killing the Mannis.

What sucks is this episode made rooting for Brienne a much easier decision. Without Shireen burning I would've actually been conflicted.

 

[Damerman]

What are you talking about? The point is that someone said if show Stannis killed his daughter, book Stannis will too. I was countering that. Did you get confused?

well you are going to need to pick whether you are complaining about the poor characterization of stannis in the show, or if you are taking issue with the fact that a book is going to better depict what you are not expecting to happen. i don't buy the whole "there is no reason for stannis to burn shireen based on what we know so far" stuff. last i checked, they left deepwood mote to get to winterfel, and winter is still there. the show spoiled it. D&D admitted that this came straight from the horses mouth.

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't think so, personally I think we've only gotten one good episode this entire season. The rest have been mediocre and some especially bad.

I absolutely agree with this assessment.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Goodbye Stannis

#teamjonsnownow

You may need to

Spoiler

switch teams again

next episode lol

 

[Damerman]

I absolutely agree with this assessment.

i disagree. I think D&D worked really well with what they had. the only thing i find myself wishing is that the season was 20 episodes long with 100s of millions of dollars as budget.

 

[Atraveller]

Are you people really that mad? Like legit angry? Or is it just something to write about on a forum?

I don't have a twitter persona to stay in character to, but I'm upset.

 

[munchie64]

Ya know for as bad as Dorne is, I really like Doran. Dr Bashir's pretty good in the role, and I like how they're setting him up.

 

[Moosichu]

I really wish the Arya scenes were more subtle. I really do.

 

[dave is ok]

Or the Meryn scene? Pretty sure people know he's a scumbag at this point. Guess knowing he's a pedo adds something? ::shrug::

He likes young girls. Arya is a young girl. It was obviously set-up for next week, it's not like it was in there for no reason.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Shireen = ASOIAF
Stannis = D&D
Selyse = Bookreaders

Someone make this happen in gif form.

Well, I already made it but it's not in Gif form:

 

[Moff]

If you look at many of my posts in last season's thread, you'll see me as a big proponent of "the show is the show, the books are the books". And while I'm upset over the show's failure to characterize Stannis (and many other characters such as Jaime) properly, I'm mostly upset over the incoherence the show has with itself.

Why even have the whole Dorne plot if it amounts to literally nothing? Wouldn't it be wiser to just send Jaime off to replace Balon Swann and have the rest of the plot happen off-screen? The only really important aspect that happened was that Trystane is going to take Oberyn's seat in the small council. Couldn't we have had scenes in King's Landing for that, instead of this utter bullshit?

dorne really was the low point of this season and generally the worst part of the show we have seen so far. not only did they waste another great actor on doran martell, the jaime&bronn rescue plot was a terrible idea and the sand sanke acting and fighting was simply absysmal.. and it really did not lead to anything. I can only guess that ellaria, trystane and the sand snakes will all have some important parts to play in future seasons.

I think the whole rest of the season was fine, including winterfell.
given the quality of the source material, they did a good job.
reducing danys chapters to the harpy, cutting the siege was the right call
reducing tyrion to traveling with varys and jorah, cutting tysha and aegon was the right call
giving us hardhome instead of the snowstorm battle was the right call
bringing back jaqen and bring trant to braavos was the right call

when I read AFFC I put the book away for years during a brienne chapter, I did not do that during that season.

 

[StriKeVillain]

i disagree. I think D&D worked really well with what they had. the only thing i find myself wishing is that the season was 20 episodes long with 100s of millions of dollars as budget.

Just because I'm curious: what are your highlights from this season?

 

[Red Arremer]

i disagree. I think D&D worked really well with what they had. the only thing i find myself wishing is that the season was 20 episodes long with 100s of millions of dollars as budget.

Honestly? I can't disagree more.
There were a few cool scenes in most of the arcs - for instance I loved Arya's scene in the House of Black and White where she goes through the hall of faces, but for the most part, the show is rushing a lot of things to the point of lacking explanations that are mandatory for understanding. For instance, a lot of people are confused why Tommen can't free Cersei/Margaery from the Faith's imprisonment, being the king and all.

There's also a lot of really hamfisted writing. Practically all of Dorne, all the scenes with Littlefinger, all the scenes with Ramsay, several scenes with Arya and Olenna as well.

The few ups a couple of the episodes have compared to the general underlying quality of the entire season so far is just utterly disappointing.

Ya know for as bad as Dorne is, I really like Doran. Dr Bashir's pretty good in the role, and I like how they're setting him up.

I agree. I was extremely excited when I heard that Siddig, who is one of my favourite actors from the Star Trek series, got cast as Doran, who is one of my favourite characters in the books. I was generally excited for Dorne. Eh.

 

[Mxrz]

I figure the minor Dorne stuff this season is to ease into a heavier focus next season. The jump in the books was pretty jarring, and would have been even moreso with the tv show. Doran didn't do a whole lot at first in the book either.

One thing not mentioned enough - Tyrion has improved Dany's stuff considerably. Huge win over the books right there.

Goodbye Stannis

#teamjonsnownow

Welcome aboard!. . .its probably going to be a short ride, but still!

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

Is Arrested Westeros still a thing?

 

[munchie64]

Is Arrested Westeros still a thing?

Haha. That particular line has been used for this show a bunch of times, and it always works.

 

[hoos30]

And D&D blaze (get it?) through everything and the show is shittier for it. Pacing has always been a massive problem for the show. They need to just slow down every once in a while and catch their breath.

No, the faster they get through the sloggy AFFC/ADWD material, the better for all of us. It's something of a miracle that we got three entertaining episodes out of this season.

 

[Kaladin]

#TeamTargaryen ever since that little shit Viserys got what he deserved