schlongdog
Banned
But they didn't did they? That it was a plot point, yes. The same? No.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
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But they didn't did they? That it was a plot point, yes. The same? No.
Moff
Member
I think that's the way elio&linda interpreted it, because otherwise their reaction makes even less sense
Basileus777
Member
Yep, they didn't say anything specific enough to rage about.
It's Linda, it's best to not try to make sense of her nonsense. She's been making a fool of herself for a decade.
schlongdog
Banned
Of course they did though, they're just the worst.
All they confirmed is that Shireen gets burned. Only Martin knows how it plays out in the books.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
I don't think D&D would give a major event like this to Stannis out of the blue. They've given cut characters' plot lines to other people but I don't think they've ever done a shift this big?
This would be like them having Ramsay in the RW stabbing Robb while Roose watches
This would be like them having Ramsay in the RW stabbing Robb while Roose watches
KingRagnar
Banned
It's logistically impossible for it to happen in the books like it did the show, so who knows what he told them. If Stannis orders it it'll basically have to happen after Winterfell.
Moff
Member
I'm pretty sure D&D know that, too. or asked GRRM about it at least, and he certainly answered them.
if they deliberately got stannis to make that decision is the only question.
Yeah Drogon was pretty great. Gotta also give it to the Harpies for actually putting up a decent fight against him after the initial shock. I know I would make a run for it if I saw a dragon like this going for me heh.
KingRagnar
Banned
Success doesn't mean they made the right call. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's any good.
It's logistically impossible for Stannis to be there during the burning. It's not impossible Stannis to know of it or give the order.
Basileus777
Member
This show wouldn't continue to exist if it wasn't popular. The point of a television adaptation is to reach a broader audience. That's D&D's goal.
Problem with Thorne is you don't get the sadness, he has hated Jon since day one, only his sense of duty and grudging respect has kept him at bay, there won't be any tears.
Thing is, after the omgholyfuck at Hardholme, how do they sell Jon wanting to leave now? he won't leave the wall just to rescue his half sister (the Pink letter won't happen imho), there is far more at stake now and he knows it, he has seen it first hand.
The promise of more men from Davos on the condition he marches half the men at the Wall to Winterfell? no way would he leave the wall that unguarded now.
Let's say they make it happen, what a fucking bleak ending:
- Winterfell battle is a cliffhanger, Ramsay is smug (at least we may get that corkscrew rammed in his neck).
- Danny has dysentery.
- Arya is blinded
- Jon is FTW'd
That's a fucking bleak way to leave things for a year.
Guessing she offs him in the next episode. But yeah that was a lot of build up for it.
Moff
Member
and "the right call" doesnt mean it needs to be any good.
"the right call" means a super expensive show with tons of cast, many different huge sets, a big battle a per season and massive cgi creatures needs is popular enough to continue.
I'd still say it's good though, but certainly not as smart as the books.
KingRagnar
Banned
They've been running Westeros for a long time. Way before the show. It's not right to dismiss them like that, they've been there for George before GoT was even considered. Maybe they're overreacting, but fuck it it's Twitter. A lot of people feel just as pissed off about the situation.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Jon entering the north side of the wall is maybe the stupidest plot point.
Remember all those white walkers who just attacked you north of the wall? Well we're going to sail out and sail right back in again rather than going south of the wall where it's safe to march half way across Westros to get to the gate. Hopefully no white walkers attack!
Remember all those white walkers who just attacked you north of the wall? Well we're going to sail out and sail right back in again rather than going south of the wall where it's safe to march half way across Westros to get to the gate. Hopefully no white walkers attack!
KingRagnar
Banned
How and why would he give the order when these were his most recent quotes -
"Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder."
"It may be that we shall lose this battle, the king said grimly. In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless.
The knight hesitated.
Your Grace, if you are dead
you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Don't blame the medium, blame the message. If you're posting knee-jerk, childish reactions, that's on you.
The North side provides better imagery, both visually and thematically.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the wildlings come from the north side in the books as well? No big deal to me either way.
Shuggananas
Banned
they made sure people want him to die because he's a pedo
that's so much easier than giving characters some substance
KingRagnar
Banned
And they've successfully made it dumber in the process. Entertaining, but inconsistently written and favoring cheap shock value over character development.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
i don't watch the show and don't care about spoilers, so can someone give a quick list of the things the show has either certainly or possibly spoiled for the books?
It's honestly not difficult seeing Stannis placed in just as desperate of a situation as the one conveyed on the show and approving of the burning. And I agree with what others have said. If placed in that situation, I can easily see book Stannis approving the burning.
He'll be singing My Sharona while he masturbates when they kill him next week, just to make sure.
Basileus777
Member
R + L = J
Jon is probably Azor Ahai
Shireen gets burned alive
That's pretty much it so far. Nothing the books haven't telegraphed.
I mostly agree with this, though the books have the same tendency to go for shocks.
I totally agree, but damn this tweet from Elio and Linda really sounds like they also knew about Stannis burning Shireen and that it's accurate:
I'm sure GRRM can develop the character to the point where he would do that better than D&D did, but I'm really not sure if he can ever really get him there after all the quotes like that :/
Edit: Reading a bit more of her Twitter, she's taking less like they knew for sure, and more that they viewed Stannis sacrificing Shireen as an inevitability that anyone who read deeply enough saw coming. I'll retract my claim that they're confirming it as a book plot point. I'm back to believing that D&D changed who did it! Cannot be swayed!
Orbis Tabula
Member
Really in the end, I'm not too upset about the Shireen burning, I think. It was strongly theorized it would happen, for basically the same reason. I don't buy how quickly Stannis and his queen (I can't remember her name) changed opinions completely, but it's the tv show. Each character only gets a couple minutes a week, so plots end up accelerated. It's a compromise I can handle. Overall, I liked the episode, but it was rough coming off of last week's awesome one.
PhoenixDark
Banned
That's Linda's official twitter. Elio has never been an asshole.
Waiting on GRRM's comment. Weiss' comment makes no sense.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
thanks, nothing yet that i could see people getting salty over.
I totally agree, but damn this tweet from Elio and Linda really sounds like they also knew about Stannis burning Shireen and that it's accurate:
I'm sure GRRM can develop the character to the point where he would do that better than D&D did, but I'm really not sure if he can ever really get him there after all the quotes like that :/
considering that they seem to be total book purists, what is it that they would have wanted? differ from the books so there won't be spoilers?
Moff
Member
there area really countless ways stannis will burn shireen if that's what GRRM intends to do. the most likely being that he sends for melisandres help after the snowstorm battle and she simply brings shireen and seylse with her.
personally, I think it would be cheap if they did it behind stannis back, he has got to make that choice, he is the interesting character, we need to see and know his reaction.
they probabls think TWOW will release before season 6
personally, I think it would be cheap if they did it behind stannis back, he has got to make that choice, he is the interesting character, we need to see and know his reaction.
they probabls think TWOW will release before season 6
KingRagnar
Banned
I totally agree, but damn this tweet from Elio and Linda really sounds like they also knew about Stannis burning Shireen and that it's accurate:
I'm sure GRRM can develop the character to the point where he would do that better than D&D did, but I'm really not sure if he can ever really get him there after all the quotes like that :/
It seems crazy to me too, but I trust George with whatever ends up happening. He might put out some slow chapters, but he's never put a foot wrong with character work.
schlongdog
Banned
Fair enough
Probably a good time to post this study from a few years back: spoilers don't spoil enjoyment but enhance it.
KingRagnar
Banned
He's already in that situation in the books. He's ready to die. Book Stannis doesn't give a fuck about starving and freezing to death. He is literally made of iron, unlike his show counterpart.
Maybe he loses the battle of Winterfell and his men drag his sorry ass to the Wall.
Stannis will be the one to burn Shireen, that one's a lock.
Basileus777
Member
It's rare that spoilers will ruin my experience with a book/film/show but good luck combating the evils of spoiler culture.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Wohh, so I have a question; does this whole Shireen burning at the stake happens in the books too? It was probably one of the hardest things I've had to watch on television so far. Fucking hell, made me want the writers to kill stannis on the spot, red bitch fucked him crazy. lol
KingRagnar
Banned
Can't say that until we see it on the page or Martin confirms it.
Moff
Member
the truth is we don't know yet
most book readers do not believe stannis will do it himself, though.
I don't agree.
Intheflorsh
Banned
It apparently will occur in the next book.
I'd like to know how they are quantifying enjoyment.
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