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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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The facts are pointing to Stannis approving of the burning. You have a hard time accepting that, which is fine. I'm sure when Martin finishes TWOW in 20XX, he'll have Stannis burn his daughter in a manner more to your liking.
Basileus777
Member
It's clear that Shireen gets burned, but the hows and whos are uncertain. It's from unpublished material.
Just edited my post above, but reading through a bit more of Linda's Twitter, it sounds less like she already knew about the sacrifice, and more like she and Elio considered it an inevitability based on their reading of the plot. Sorry for jumping the gun on the confirmation.
It hasn't happened in the books yet, but the showrunners are saying that they're taking it from future book material. I will say that if you found it surprising that Stannis did that, he's been developed as even less likely to do that in the book, so a good number of us are pretty shocked and confused. A lot of us are basically juggling between the ideas that it happens later on, at some point where Stannis is in a much more dire situation than he is here (at this point in the books, Stannis is similarly trapped in the snow, but refuses to even sacrifice some ironborn captives that he has, for fear that burnings will alienate his non-believer soldiers) or that they are taking something that Stannis' wife and/or Melisandre does and are reassigning it to Stannis, because they like it better that way. No one really knows. At this point in the books, Stannis doesn't even have Shireen. He leaves her at Castle Black with a squad of guards, along with his wife and Mel, just like Davos suggested. There's never even really a question of bringing them along.
It hasn't happened in the books yet, but the showrunners are saying that they're taking it from future book material. I will say that if you found it surprising that Stannis did that, he's been developed as even less likely to do that in the book, so a good number of us are pretty shocked and confused. A lot of us are basically juggling between the ideas that it happens later on, at some point where Stannis is in a much more dire situation than he is here (at this point in the books, Stannis is similarly trapped in the snow, but refuses to even sacrifice some ironborn captives that he has, for fear that burnings will alienate his non-believer soldiers) or that they are taking something that Stannis' wife and/or Melisandre does and are reassigning it to Stannis, because they like it better that way. No one really knows. At this point in the books, Stannis doesn't even have Shireen. He leaves her at Castle Black with a squad of guards, along with his wife and Mel, just like Davos suggested. There's never even really a question of bringing them along.
Moff
Member
when I saw melisandres smug smile while burning shireen I immediately thought that she would be D&D in such a gif
demosthenes
Member
Who are Linda and Elio?
Basileus777
Member
They run westeros.org and contributed to the ASOIAF World Book. They've long been associated with GRRM.
Only people in denial don't believe Stannis will do it, it makes complete sense to end his arc there. He's been struggling with doing the right thing versus the Red god saving his ass forever. D&D confirmed, Elio and Linda confirmed it and it's what makes sense story wise.
Blue Ninja
Member
Not sure we'll get Jon wanting to leave. He just led a Wildling army through the Wall, some of the Watch have reason enough to want to shiv him. We might get the scene with Wun Wun killing one of Stannis' knights, and some Watch members going after Jon in the ensuing chaos.
Arya going blind is a good bet. But if she kills Trant and the insurance guy, we might just skip that part of the story altogether.
Since they're skipping the entire Pale Mare storyline, I doubt we'll see Dany getting the shits. Her womb might quicken again, as Martin put it so eloquently.
Honestly, my bet is on Stannis getting killed at Winterfell, Melisandre trying to revive Azor Ahai, nothing happening and her getting burned at the stake by what remains of Stannis' forces. Then Jon wakes up in Castle Black.
KingRagnar
Banned
The facts? Like the ones I just showed you that say the opposite? You have nothing besides the ultra-vague "when George told us about this"
You're right. Mel should be D&D because they actually do it, and Stannis is GRRM because he just sits there and let's it happen.
demosthenes
Member
I don't understand why they're upset.
Have they thought this out past each sunday episode? They do understand that the show is going to conclude years before book 7 comes out right?
The salt needs to stop. Enjoy the show or stop watching it. Enjoy the books when
if
Basileus777
Member
GRRM's just counting the money.
Yeah, that whole section dissapointed me.
I love how in the books, Arya just comes across people she doesn't like. And then kills them subtly without warning. Especially in Dareon's case where you see her thinking that she doesn't like him, then later speaking to the kindly old man saying that she killed him.
Baldwin_the_First
Member
Shiiit, alright. Damn, I guess that's one way to get attention to your books. Holy crap.
I've read book 2 and 3, stopped midway into the fourth, and then read the wiki of pretty much all characters as to what happens to them further in the books. Are we to assume that John will really die and not end up being the true chosen one if Stannis becomes useful once more for the red god and Melisandre? I might have mixed up a few theories as to what will happen next, but wasn't there something in the books that made Melisandre flip the switch as to who is the chosen one and what not?
I thought it was a decent episode even with the crappy cgi. All the shireen stuff shows is that show Stannis is a zealot who has fully bought in to his own king of destiny bullshit. If book readers can't separate the show from the books by now I'm surprised you still watch. It's only going to get much worse for you. The show could have done a better job at showing how bad it has got for Stannis's army but they only have a little time to do that.
I'm annoyed they are going to end the season on a major cliffhanger. I hate when TV shows do that.
Also, I'm pretty sure they are making the Kingsguard dude a pedo becasue Arya is going to use that against him to kill him.
I'm annoyed they are going to end the season on a major cliffhanger. I hate when TV shows do that.
Also, I'm pretty sure they are making the Kingsguard dude a pedo becasue Arya is going to use that against him to kill him.
StriKeVillain
Banned
Can I watch the show and criticize it for being bad TV? Don't really care about the books (personally, I think GRRM lost it a while ago).
I don't consider it all that vague at all. To believe that Stannis isn't involved in some way in Shireen's burning, you would need to believe that, upon hearing of Shireen's burning, the showrunners neither asked or received no further information on how the situation came about, or how one of the most important characters in the story was or not involved in the burning of his daughter and only heir.
KingRagnar
Banned
Insulting people like that for wanting clarification before saying one thing or the other is childish. The show is not the books, and nothing in ADWD or TWoW would lead anyone to believe this was the next move for Stannis. No one was even suggesting it before this episode, and the huge divergence between S5 and the books has been the main topic of discussion among readers all season long. Sansa being married to Ramsay doesn't mean that'll happen in the books, same with Jaime in Dorne or Barristan getting killed in a tunnel. "George told us about this" is too vague to make any definitive statement.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I think a lot of us are expecting something along these lines, which means it probably won't happen
schlongdog
Banned
Who's staying on Team Stannis anyway?
I am
Nope. Not allowed. Sorry.
Blue Ninja
Member
I think a lot of us are expecting something along these lines, which means it probably won't happen
True, the last two years we were so certain Lady Stoneheart was gonna show up. :lol
hipsterpants
Member
Long-distance revival would be incredibly dumb. Please don't let that happen.
Moff
Member
I have never heard of anyone who believes that jon is dead, most people saw it as a very poorly written cliffhanger.
the most common theory is that jon gets revived on the spot or wargs into ghost to be revived (or transfered to a completly new body) later. but he certainly is not dead, most people think he is the chosen and not stannis.
Damerman
Member
sorry, but you need a triggerwaring for this video... that was the most annoying shit i've ever seen.
StriKeVillain
Banned
Poop.
Red Arremer
Member
Would only be long distance in the show.
Byakuya769
Member
Without any of the intrigue of an assassination plot.
Just.... "ARE U HATPY, I'LL BURN U!!
"No... No... I'm not!"
"... Ok... Marry me then."
"Cool,let's open the pits."
...
"Argh, the harpies!"
Moff
Member
to be completely honest, atlhough I think stannis became an actually interesting character after ASOS, I never really thought he would be a good king. and if GRRM decides that he has to kill shireen both of that doesnt change.
I am still on #teamICEandFIREkillallmen
TestOfTide
Banned
More like stannis is GRRM and D&D is mellisandre smiling.
Enosh
Member
or you know, they asked and received further information but decided to change it for the show
hipsterpants
Member
I would actually prefer Stannis to live because it would pretty interesting to see how he acts after burning Shireen. Instead he could die as early as next episode.
Byakuya769
Member
Show apologist arguments are getting terrible. Usually one of the following:
1) it's TV, the formats different
2) it was for budgetary reasons
3) the show's the show the book's the book, just enjoy it
1) it's TV, the formats different
2) it was for budgetary reasons
3) the show's the show the book's the book, just enjoy it
KingRagnar
Banned
I'm on team book Stannis. Been holding out for him to kill the Boltons since 2011.
ToyMachine228
Member
So my issue with this season isn't the fact that they specifically burned Shireen. Many of us started to predict that it would happen quite a while ago, just not in that fashion. My issue is that they have had little to no character development of moving of the story in nearly every single character arc.
- Stannis started to show a little more human side this season and then it was taken away. Aside from marching from the wall to Winterfell, not much has happened in his story this season.
- Jaime's trip to Dorne has turned out to be a complete plot device to get Myrcella and Trystane to King's Landing. Maybe that will be important, but they had a chance to develop Jaimie with the whole trip and thus far, they've completed blown it and instead, all we've seen is Jaime saying "OK" and having blank looks on his face. He has learned or done nothing significant.
- Arya's arc is about the same as it is in the books, but its been handled too slowly. We didn't need the build up scene in last night's episode. She should have just done it. We've already seen Arya kill in the past. We didn't need an entire season just to get her to the point she's at right now. In the grand scheme of Game of Thrones where were moving toward the end-game.
- Jon's arc has moved very well and was obviously capped by the amazing scenes at Hardhome. I just REALLY hope that they pull off
right and don't do it in a manner that will leave viewer's outraged yet again this season.
- Sansa's arc hasn't been great. I like that she chose to go to Winterfell and live with the Boltons. I thought that this season we'd see her become a player in the game. Instead, we have her being victimized again. It's possible things change drastically in Episode 10, but again, not the way it should have happened from a writing perspective.
- Theon has been Reek for too long now. Alfie Allen has been great in the role, but his plot needs to be progressing quicker.
- Dany's arc from aDwD has been sped up pretty successfully. While I still can't stand Emilia Clark or the character of Dany, I think D&D succeeded in speeding up her arc and getting it to where it needs to be in a timely fashion.
- Tyrion Same as Dany. They did a good job speeding up Tyrion's arc and I'm beginning to like Tyrion more again.
- Cersei- They've done a pretty good job with Cersei's arc this season which will be capped off by the
in episode 10. Lena has been great in the role, as usual. I just don't like that they haven't explored the fallout between Cersei and Jaime at all, which is vital.
- Dorne- Handled pretty poorly. In episode 9, we learn that Trystane and Myrcella will be going to King's Landing, which will likely be important. But everything leading up to it has been pretty bad and Ellaria's complete 180 was poorly written. The Sand Snakes and Ellaria were all poorly acted to boot. Doran likely has a plan that we'll learn about later that is starting now, but again, we wasted an entire season just to send Trystane and Myrcella to King's Landing.
- Tommen- I think showing us more of Tommen as a character has actually been pretty interesting and is something I'd give D&D some credit for. They showed what it's like to have a "boy" king.
- Brienne- LOL. She has had no arc this season. I know that she doesn't in aFfC until the last few chapters as well, but she really has accomplished nothing. She will obviously play a part in aiding Sansa, killing Stannis or something along those lines, but her arc has been basically non-existant.
- Bran was cut from the season. Which I think took away from seeing the grand scheme of what's happening in the entire GoT universe and the reminder of the "real" threat. I know Hardhome did that, but aside from that, that's the only reminder.
That's all I can think of right now. In the grand perspective, I think they got a few things right, missed a lot of opportunities and flat out butchered a few as well. I think we still have an episode to go, but I don't see the finale containing anything that would drastically change my mind on the season as a whole. They let what this season should have been about get away from them and meandered for the most part, just like GRRM did with Feast and Dance in many ways. They seemed too bold in some areas, forgetful of some important areas, and showed misunderstanding of others. I really hope that this is just a case of being in the middle and that next season can really start the all out end-game scenarios being played out to the fullest.
- Stannis started to show a little more human side this season and then it was taken away. Aside from marching from the wall to Winterfell, not much has happened in his story this season.
- Jaime's trip to Dorne has turned out to be a complete plot device to get Myrcella and Trystane to King's Landing. Maybe that will be important, but they had a chance to develop Jaimie with the whole trip and thus far, they've completed blown it and instead, all we've seen is Jaime saying "OK" and having blank looks on his face. He has learned or done nothing significant.
- Arya's arc is about the same as it is in the books, but its been handled too slowly. We didn't need the build up scene in last night's episode. She should have just done it. We've already seen Arya kill in the past. We didn't need an entire season just to get her to the point she's at right now. In the grand scheme of Game of Thrones where were moving toward the end-game.
- Jon's arc has moved very well and was obviously capped by the amazing scenes at Hardhome. I just REALLY hope that they pull off
FTW
- Sansa's arc hasn't been great. I like that she chose to go to Winterfell and live with the Boltons. I thought that this season we'd see her become a player in the game. Instead, we have her being victimized again. It's possible things change drastically in Episode 10, but again, not the way it should have happened from a writing perspective.
- Theon has been Reek for too long now. Alfie Allen has been great in the role, but his plot needs to be progressing quicker.
- Dany's arc from aDwD has been sped up pretty successfully. While I still can't stand Emilia Clark or the character of Dany, I think D&D succeeded in speeding up her arc and getting it to where it needs to be in a timely fashion.
- Tyrion Same as Dany. They did a good job speeding up Tyrion's arc and I'm beginning to like Tyrion more again.
- Cersei- They've done a pretty good job with Cersei's arc this season which will be capped off by the
walk of shame
- Dorne- Handled pretty poorly. In episode 9, we learn that Trystane and Myrcella will be going to King's Landing, which will likely be important. But everything leading up to it has been pretty bad and Ellaria's complete 180 was poorly written. The Sand Snakes and Ellaria were all poorly acted to boot. Doran likely has a plan that we'll learn about later that is starting now, but again, we wasted an entire season just to send Trystane and Myrcella to King's Landing.
- Tommen- I think showing us more of Tommen as a character has actually been pretty interesting and is something I'd give D&D some credit for. They showed what it's like to have a "boy" king.
- Brienne- LOL. She has had no arc this season. I know that she doesn't in aFfC until the last few chapters as well, but she really has accomplished nothing. She will obviously play a part in aiding Sansa, killing Stannis or something along those lines, but her arc has been basically non-existant.
- Bran was cut from the season. Which I think took away from seeing the grand scheme of what's happening in the entire GoT universe and the reminder of the "real" threat. I know Hardhome did that, but aside from that, that's the only reminder.
That's all I can think of right now. In the grand perspective, I think they got a few things right, missed a lot of opportunities and flat out butchered a few as well. I think we still have an episode to go, but I don't see the finale containing anything that would drastically change my mind on the season as a whole. They let what this season should have been about get away from them and meandered for the most part, just like GRRM did with Feast and Dance in many ways. They seemed too bold in some areas, forgetful of some important areas, and showed misunderstanding of others. I really hope that this is just a case of being in the middle and that next season can really start the all out end-game scenarios being played out to the fullest.
KingRagnar
Banned
4) it was George (even though he has nothing to do with the show these days)
That would be a pretty massive character change not in line with anything we've seen on the show thus far. But hey, keep the dream alive if that's your prerogative. #TeamStannis4Ever
demosthenes
Member
Yes, of course. I think the comparisons the books need to stop. We knew this was all coming. Even if book 6 came out this summer book 7 would still have come out AFTER the show ended.
Not apologizing for anything. The writing was on the wall that they would have to go their own path or spoil everything or a mixture of both. I haven't been happy with this season compared to past, I think it's silly comparing the books to the show now though.
Veritigo_X
Member
I thought they were setting up Hizdahr as the Harpy King with his "Sorry I'm late, just had some matters I had to attend to..." line before the fights started. Nope, he's dead.
Basileus777
Member
You can and should. It will immediately put you ahead of most of the discourse in this thread. The show has a lot of problems, it's a shame we're stuck talking about how it differs from the books.
Damerman
Member
what do you expect from a show about tens of POV characters with only 50mins of time? you people are annoying as fuck.
KingRagnar
Banned
The show has been committing massive character changes all season long. Sansa, Jaime, Barristan, Littlefinger, need I go on?
KingRagnar
Banned
Might want to stop posting here if you find us annoying.
Damerman
Member
i highly doubt that he is dead.
demosthenes
Member
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