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[Dusk Soldier]

This post contains tWoW preview chapter spoilers:

Spoiler

I guess I'm just missing your point. Rafford was a bastard, cruel and sadistic. In Mercy GRRM adds pedo to the list (a characteristic we hadn't seen before in the books as far as I recall)

Meryn Trant was a bastard, cruel and sadistic, in the show D&D add pedo to the list.

What's the difference, why no shit thrown at GRRM? It's done for the same shock value isn't it? (Also, both can give Arya a good chance for a kill). As I said, consistency in the critique.

And no it's nothing like Sansa's rape, that was horrible for so many reasons, and D&D should rightfully get shit on for that. And this also goes back to the point in my first post on this topic, D&D have made horrible choices, but if you're not consistent in your critique, and let GRRM "get away" with things you shit on D&D for (and added, if you shit on every single thing D&D do), all arguments, even those with actual merit (like the Sansa one), ring hollow in the end.

They reason they can`t do that is because it`s a TV show and people don`t always pay strict attention to the dialogue.

Think of all the show watchers that think Danaerys's name is "Khaleesi."

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

hahaha

 

[Liquidsnake]

this show man... i'm starting to think d&d are hacks

They certainly produced the worst season yet, that is for sure. This is Big Bang theory season 8 bad.

I had a feeling once the source material ran out, they would struggle. I just didn't think it would be this much. Love the show still my favorite of all time, but the quality this season has been the poorest thus far.

 

[gutshot]

This thread next season: "I can't believe they had X character do Y! Fuck D&D and their stupid fan-fiction show!"

*Three years later....*

The TWOW thread: "Oh."

 

[BuggyDClown]

I dont understand all the hate. That episode was nuts.

 

[eot]

Hmm...

Ramsay threatened him though, as commander of the watch.

Obviously Jon has ulterior motives, but it still could be considered acting for the watch, not for personal gain.

He threatened him after Jon had already sent Mance there

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why do you guys Loath Olly so much.

He's less of a character and more of a plot device

 

[Lord Couture]

You could argue - and Jon would certainly make this argument - that Ramsay made a direct threat against the NW and thus forced him to act. And while I can see that perspective ultimately I do believe Jon violated his vows. If anything the NW should have stayed at the Wall, dispatched scouts to make sure Ramsay didn't blindside them, and prepared to do battle.

Hmm...

Ramsay threatened him though, as commander of the watch.

Obviously Jon has ulterior motives, but it still could be considered acting for the watch, not for personal gain.

Jon still willingly sent a traitor/deserter of the NW (who nearly destroyed the NW) in Winterfell to steal away the bride of the heir of the Warden of the North.

Put yourself in the place of an average men of the NW and you learn your Lord Commander does this. How does this not look as someone trying to interfere with Northern politics?

 

[Enosh]

This thread next season: "I can't believe they had X character do Y! Fuck D&D and their stupid fan-fiction show!"

*Three years later....*

The TWOW thread: "Oh."

yeah no,
character X might still do Y but I'm willing to bet 90% of those cases will have more sense and better motivation as to why the character is doing Y behind them

 

[ultron87]

This thread next season: "I can't believe they had X character do Y! Fuck D&D and their stupid fan-fiction show!"

*Three years later....*

The TWOW thread: "Oh."

It is entirely reasonable to complain that something was dumb and out of character in the show and then, if it happens in the books, evaluate then if it was earned in the writing of that book. That won't retroactively make it better in the show.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Why do you guys Loath Olly so much.

He's a plot device time bomb that does nothing but glare at people.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

He's a plot device time bomb that does nothing but glare at people.

And nods. And poses while he nods.

 

[Paganmoon]

Well, for me, I read the books years ago and am watching the show now. I'm discussing things that are occurring, on the show, now.

There is nothing preventing us from discussing what happened in the show if we've yet to discuss its equivalent book action. "Why didn't you complain about it in the books?" is stifling discussion.

Of course, we should be able to discuss the show on its own merits, but when it's discussing something that's very close to being verbatim from the books, criticizing it by suggesting D&D are hacks just seems strange.
And that D&D should've changed it, from how it was in the books cause they can, when every third post in this thread is complaints about D&D straying from the book, again, feels strange.
And in the long run as I mentioned in my very first post on this, it will make all the other (in my opinion more legitimate) gripes about the show ring hollow. (as in a boy who cried wolf scenario)

They reason they can`t do that is because it`s a TV show and people don`t always pay strict attention to the dialogue.

Think of all the show watchers that think Danaerys's name is "Khaleesi."

Did you quote the wrong post? I think I might be missing something otherwise.

And nods. And poses while he nods.

But he nodded like a boss dude. How can you hate on Olly for that?

 

[Liquidsnake]

He's a plot device time bomb that does nothing but glare at people.

He has seen things that you and I would never understand.

 

[Maintenance]

I'm waiting for the Olly version of this gif:

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jon still willingly sent a traitor/deserter of the NW (who nearly destroyed the NW) in Winterfell to steal away the bride of the heir of the Warden of the North.

Put yourself in the place of an average men of the NW and you learn your Lord Commander does this. How does this not look as someone trying to interfere with Northern politics?

To be fair no one in the Watch knows about this. From the Watch's perspective, Jon looked like a traitor who was leading a wildling army south to enter a political war. That decision sealed his fate; clearly Marsh was upset about letting wildlings through the Wall and settling them on lands, so Jon turning them into an army was like the culmination of all of the traitors' fears/concerns.

EDIT: Ohhhh how did I forget about the Pink Letter lol.

 

[Lonestar]

He has seen things that you and I would never understand.

Just not the right things.

 

[HouseStark1575]

Melisandre is making stannis believe that he is azor Ahai so its kinda of makes sense his scarifies shireen as Azor Ahai scarified his wife to create lightbringer.

 

[Snake]

I hate to spoiler tag speculation, but I feel this is kind of inevitable at this point, Re: Stannis.

Spoiler

It cannot be an accident that Brienne has been stationed right outside of Winterfell for half a season, and, having recently declared her unshakeable intention to put an end to Stannis Baratheon, will now be within striking distance. I feel like we have a 90% chance of Brienne killing Stannis in Episode 10, and the book purists aren't ready for it. I think we'll be getting the biggest yet round of "I'm done with this show" posts from people who absolutely won't be done with the show, but who will certainly do their best to make this thread painful to read.

 

[Lord Couture]

To be fair no one in the Watch knows about this. From the Watch's perspective, Jon looked like a traitor who was leading a wildling army south to enter a political war. That decision sealed his fate; clearly Marsh was upset about letting wildlings through the Wall and settling them on lands, so Jon turning them into an army was like the culmination of all of the traitors' fears/concerns.

Jon read the Pink Letter to the NW so they also learned about the Mance switcheroo when Jon told them he was going South:

Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back.

From Marsh's (and the rest of his gang) POV, Jon is the one who started this mess because of this move. Thus the "Jon was right to go South as Ramsay provoked the NW" defense for them since they know Jon tried to steal Ramsay's bride (which goes against his vows).

 

[PhoenixDark]

Jon read the Pink Letter to the NW so they also learned about the Mance switcheroo when Jon told them he was going South:

Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back.

From Marsh's (and the rest of his gang) POV, Jon is the one who started all of this mess with the North with this move. Thus the "Jon was right to go South as Ramsay provoked the NW" defense for them since they know Jon tried to steal Ramsay's bride (which goes against his vows).

Oh shit I forgot about that.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

Shit, instead of saying "Yes, we have a girl like this", tell him "Sorry, we don't have any children to rape here" and then he's pissed off, goes back to his quarters or whatever. Arya can still use the pedophile angle and we can skip Trant drooling his pedophilia.

Would have been much more interesting if Trant was taking a vacation and just needs some time to breathe away from King's Landing, like a normal human being, and Arya still decides to kill him.

OYSTERS, CLAMS, AND COCKLES!!!

 

[foxtrot3d]

Oh shit I forgot about that.

What's funny about that, which someone pointed out to me, is how the Wildings don't even react to the news that Mance Rayder didn't burn. They should be like "wait, what?" Of course, Tormund could have told them before he read the letter aloud.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

I hate to spoiler tag speculation, but I feel this is kind of inevitable at this point, Re: Stannis.

Spoiler

It cannot be an accident that Brienne has been stationed right outside of Winterfell for half a season, and, having recently declared her unshakeable intention to put an end to Stannis Baratheon, will now be within striking distance. I feel like we have a 90% chance of Brienne killing Stannis in Episode 10, and the book purists aren't ready for it. I think we'll be getting the biggest yet round of "I'm done with this show" posts from people who absolutely won't be done with the show, but who will certainly do their best to make this thread painful to read.

If she kills Stannis, will she take command of his army?

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I hate to spoiler tag speculation, but I feel this is kind of inevitable at this point, Re: Stannis.

Spoiler

It cannot be an accident that Brienne has been stationed right outside of Winterfell for half a season, and, having recently declared her unshakeable intention to put an end to Stannis Baratheon, will now be within striking distance. I feel like we have a 90% chance of Brienne killing Stannis in Episode 10, and the book purists aren't ready for it. I think we'll be getting the biggest yet round of "I'm done with this show" posts from people who absolutely won't be done with the show, but who will certainly do their best to make this thread painful to read.

Oh, this is still a discussion? Pretty much figured this was guaranteed to happen since E2 or 3 this season. Whenever the scene you're referencing happened. Not even sure I care anymore after the character assassination we just witnessed last night.

 

[Ros8105]

This thread next season: "I can't believe they had X character do Y! Fuck D&D and their stupid fan-fiction show!"

*Three years later....*

The TWOW thread: "Oh."

Pretty sure there will be no "20 good men" rubbish. I still can't believe this shit. Wow.

 

[Enosh]

I hate to spoiler tag speculation, but I feel this is kind of inevitable at this point, Re: Stannis.

Spoiler

It cannot be an accident that Brienne has been stationed right outside of Winterfell for half a season, and, having recently declared her unshakeable intention to put an end to Stannis Baratheon, will now be within striking distance. I feel like we have a 90% chance of Brienne killing Stannis in Episode 10, and the book purists aren't ready for it. I think we'll be getting the biggest yet round of "I'm done with this show" posts from people who absolutely won't be done with the show, but who will certainly do their best to make this thread painful to read.

yeah, damn those people voice their opinion of the show in a thread about the show!

Spoiler

also I'm quite sure her killing stannis is really obvious to anyone here

 

[Brakke]

If she kills Stannis, will she take command of his army?

is she richard b riddick??

 

[PantherLotus]

If she kills Stannis, will she take command of his army?

A few people have mentioned it but even if you find the Shireen thing perfectly within the narrative and motivation of a crazed asshole like Stannis, you gotta wonder that at least one soldier didn't walk off on the spot. Combine that with horrible winter conditions, Ramsey skinning dudes alive probably, and Brienne smushing Stannis and you gotta believe that army disappears/scatters to the winds.

 

[UberLevi]

Who's ready for next week?

 

[Jigorath]

He's less of a character and more of a plot device

That's 95% of the characters on the show.

 

[demosthenes]

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

Shit, instead of saying "Yes, we have a girl like this", tell him "Sorry, we don't have any children to rape here" and then he's pissed off, goes back to his quarters or whatever. Arya can still use the pedophile angle and we can skip Trant drooling his pedophilia.

Would have been much more interesting if Trant was taking a vacation and just needs some time to breathe away from King's Landing, like a normal human being, and Arya still decides to kill him.

This show is anything but normal human beings. Vacation? He's a freaking kings guard. If it weren't for cersei he would be guarding the king for life, no vacations.

 

[ezrarh]

Brienne kills Stannis. Melisandre burns Theon to revive Stannis but Jon wakes up right?

 

[PantherLotus]

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

 

[Euron]

I hate to spoiler tag speculation, but I feel this is kind of inevitable at this point, Re: Stannis.

Spoiler

It cannot be an accident that Brienne has been stationed right outside of Winterfell for half a season, and, having recently declared her unshakeable intention to put an end to Stannis Baratheon, will now be within striking distance. I feel like we have a 90% chance of Brienne killing Stannis in Episode 10, and the book purists aren't ready for it. I think we'll be getting the biggest yet round of "I'm done with this show" posts from people who absolutely won't be done with the show, but who will certainly do their best to make this thread painful to read.

If

Spoiler

Brienne really does kill Stannis

I don't think people in here will care that much anymore after yesterday. I'm so excited for the Winterfell/North Plotline in TWOW but at this point in the show I just want to see it end. They've done enough damage already.

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

Ramsay and 20 people somehow made it past Stannis' entire army and destroyed every single siege weapon and piece of food without a single person in the group being spotted, let alone killed. You would think there would be guards everywhere, especially among the most important items for a war (weapons and food for the soldiers). And how were they even able to start the fires? The whole thing was just impossible. If some of Ramsay's men were killed or captured it would be more believable but they weren't even spotted.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

I think it turned out fine. I think some of us were sarcastically "expecting" demi-god Ramsay Bolton to carve up the entire Stannis army with his 20 good men, but it played out how we expected. A few here have pointed out how on-the-nose Davos was with his "estimate" of the number of saboteurs, though.

 

[gutshot]

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

Because D&D.

 

[Rodney McKay]

They certainly produced the worst season yet, that is for sure. This is Big Bang theory season 8 bad.

I had a feeling once the source material ran out, they would struggle. I just didn't think it would be this much. Love the show still my favorite of all time, but the quality this season has been the poorest thus far.

I personally feel it's mirroring the books in terms of quality.

I really didn't like Feast of Crows and only liked parts of Dance of Dragons, and even though they are blending in some of my favorite parts from Dance of Dragons, it's still not good enough to completely make up for so much of the stuff I either didn't like or felt no nothing about in the last two books.

 

[Ithil]

I think it turned out fine. I think some of us were sarcastically "expecting" demi-god Ramsay Bolton to carve up the entire Stannis army with his 20 good men, but it played out how we expected. A few here have pointed out how on-the-nose Davos was with his "estimate" of the number of saboteurs, though.

"They estimate twenty men, most likely twenty "good" men, and our scouts approximate they may have been led by an actor formerly on Misfits, and they set fire to the camp at 7:03 AM, Westerosi time"

 

[cubicle47b]

The 20 good men part would be fine if the shirtless fighting scene against Asha hadn't happened and tents and horses hadn't spontaneously burst into flame on the show (at least show fire arrows or something).

 

[Brakke]

Stop spoiler tagging speculation. Brienne might kill Stannis. Sure why not.

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

Everyone should just pretend it was a blizzard and move on with their lives. It doesn't really change anything.

 

[demosthenes]

Brienne kills Stannis. Melisandre burns Theon to revive Stannis but Jon wakes up right?

Hopefully.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Brienne kills Stannis. Melisandre burns Theon to revive Stannis but Jon wakes up right?

Not out of the realm of possibility honestly. I doubt it though.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Wait someone explain to me why the '20 good men' thing is so hard to believe.

Stretches credulity to think that 20 guys approached, infiltrated, and rummaged through the camp, located all the food stores and siege weapons (which would have been under wraps due to the weather) and not a single one was spotted. Then, at morning, a dozen little fires all magically start up around the camp at the same time, with no reasoning given as to how or why.

20 good men? More like 20 good ninjas.

And, as per usual, my main complaint with all this is that it's just more obvious tentpole writing by D&D. They needed Stannis' situation to degrade quickly in order to force his hand regarding Shireen (since zero character development toward that end had happened this season), so enter Ramsay and his ninjas, proudly here to escort us from point A to point B.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Did you quote the wrong post? I think I might be missing something otherwise.

yeah, I meant to quote the following post:

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

Shit, instead of saying "Yes, we have a girl like this", tell him "Sorry, we don't have any children to rape here" and then he's pissed off, goes back to his quarters or whatever. Arya can still use the pedophile angle and we can skip Trant drooling his pedophilia.

Would have been much more interesting if Trant was taking a vacation and just needs some time to breathe away from King's Landing, like a normal human being, and Arya still decides to kill him.

not sure how I screwed that up.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

Stop spoiler tagging speculation. Brienne might kill Stannis. Sure why not.

I think with how subtle the show has been with foreshadowing things to this point, its all but a certainty that Brienne kills Stannis, just as much as Olly will go Brutus on Jon.

 

[Anton Sugar]

"They estimate twenty men, most likely twenty "good" men, and our scouts approximate they may have been led by an actor formerly on Misfits, and they set fire to the camp at 7:03 AM, Westerosi time"

lololol

Ramsay and 20 people somehow made it past Stannis' entire army and destroyed every single siege weapon and piece of food without a single person in the group being spotted, let alone killed. You would think there would be guards everywhere, especially among the most important items for a war (weapons and food for the soldiers). And how were they even able to start the fires? The whole thing was just impossible. If some of Ramsay's men were killed or captured it would be more believable but they weren't even spotted.

Oh, I didn't realize they had destroyed ALL their food and siege equipment. Yeah, it did seem like they just had a huge camp posted up with zero guards.

 

[m_shortpants]

If anything, at least the meltdowns on Jon stabbing will be epic. If they end on it as a cliff hanger that will be a giant fuck you as well. At least in the book it was nuanced and there's a good chance he's either still or alive or will be rezed.

 

[Trojita]

I stopped watching the show last season at one point. I'm laughing and crying at the show spoilers I'm reading.

 

[LordCanti]

Brienne kills Stannis. Melisandre burns Theon to revive Stannis but Jon wakes up right?

Mel burns Theon trying to raise Stannis but "nothing" happens (Jon revives way away). So she turns to the only other person around with kings blood; Sansa. Burns her. ReturnOfTheKing.

But then Ramsay kills them all. Even Jon. Especially Jon.