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[Soyongdori]

Fuuuuuuuck that.

Don't even think it would happen because she's his key to the north.

Not if Boltons finds out both Bran and Rickon are alive. They already sent people to look for Rickon in the book after finding out they were alive after all in the book.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Ok so next week they have to cover:

Walk of Shame
Arya Killing Trant
Balon's Death (lol)
Jon sending Sam away
For the Watch
Sansa Stuff (Brienne?)
Stannis marching on Winterfell (Brienne?)
Dany with the Dothraki
Aftermath in Meereen
Doran's Plan
Ferris having fun with a crossbow

Either everything is going to be halfassed or we're not getting the last two and the Winterfell stuff will range from Eh to flat out terrible.

That's not that much content. Plus they have a tendency to expand the final episode by 10-15mins.

 

[PantherLotus]

There's no way all that is making it into the season finale. They're definitely, without question, going to have something big to lead with next season. Kinda like every season!

That's not that much content. Plus they have a tendency to expand the final episode by 10-15mins.

We already know it's 61 min.

 

[Anton Sugar]

My post will contain spoilers for tWoW preview chapters:

I see some, proclaiming this "as bad as ep 6" and complaining about different aspects of the episode, so here are a few things regarding that:

Arya:

Spoiler

Her parts were very much in line with Mercy, and Trant is the replacement for Rafford, with the same type of tastes, hell the whole preview chapter was really uncomfortable to read, and I don't see GRRM getting flack for it. And now D&D are hacks cause Trant is portrayed as a pedo? (D&D are hacks, but this aint the reason)

Shireen:

Spoiler

Been hinted at in the books that this will happen, now GRRM apparently approved/suggested they'd film it. You're going to most likely read about in the books, and it's going to get praised. (Not the first time right, Red Wedding was a horrible event, but it gets praised for its writing.)

As showrunners, they have the ability to change things. Instead of using "it was in the books" as an excuse, maybe they should stop and think, "Hm, you know what? Trant is already a horrible, despicably bad human being. He is definitely evil and everyone knows this as such. Maybe we DON'T need him to implicate that he'll rape this little girl so badly that he will need a new child to rape tomorrow?"

Same with Shireen. All we know now is that burning Shireen/her death was GRRM's idea--he never said "you should have Stannis burn Shireen". We don't know how it's going to happen in the books.

 

[Jack Scofield]

Is asking this question a meme?

Haven't seen this show since season three, nor have I been following these threads. Just thought I'd pop in and ask.

 

[Moff]

As showrunners, they have the ability to change things. Instead of using "it was in the books" as an excuse, maybe they should stop and think, "Hm, you know what? Trant is already a horrible, despicably bad human being. He is definitely evil and everyone knows this as such. Maybe we DON'T need him to implicate that he'll rape this little girl so badly that he will need a new child to rape tomorrow?

I don't think it was necessarily done just to show that he is an even worse person we already know.
my guess is that arya will facechange into the girl she killed at the well to seduce and kill trant

 

[Anton Sugar]

Ok so next week they have to cover:

Walk of Shame
Arya Killing Trant
Balon's Death (lol)
Jon sending Sam away
For the Watch
Sansa Stuff (Brienne?)
Stannis marching on Winterfell (Brienne?)
Dany with the Dothraki
Aftermath in Meereen
Doran's Plan
Ferris having fun with a crossbow

Either everything is going to be halfassed or we're not getting the last two and the Winterfell stuff will range from Eh to flat out terrible.

Still waiting for the payout of that Bronn poisoning scene. There's one more episode left! Hope we don't need to add it to the "that was pointless" pile of wasted time.

I don't think it was necessarily done just to show that he is an even worse person we already know.
my guess is that arya will facechange into the girl she killed at the well to seduce and kill trant

I said this in the new NOPE thread, but there are other ways to handle this. Even a throwaway line to him liking girls that look really young would have been fine. We don't NEED to see that. It's just there for the shock spectacle.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Haven't seen this show since season three, nor have I been following these threads. Just thought I'd pop in and ask.

It just gets asked alot, so I guess some people take it as a joke now. But nope, she hasn't shown up, and it's looking like it won't happen.

 

[Massa]

As showrunners, they have the ability to change things. Instead of using "it was in the books" as an excuse, maybe they should stop and think, "Hm, you know what? Trant is already a horrible, despicably bad human being. He is definitely evil and everyone knows this as such. Maybe we DON'T need him to implicate that he'll rape this little girl so badly that he will need a new child to rape tomorrow?"

You could use this argument to dismiss pretty much the entire series.

We already know humans are shitty, we DON'T need GRRM to constantly reminds us over the course of 5 books.

 

[Paganmoon]

As showrunners, they have the ability to change things. Instead of using "it was in the books" as an excuse, maybe they should stop and think, "Hm, you know what? Trant is already a horrible, despicably bad human being. He is definitely evil and everyone knows this as such. Maybe we DON'T need him to implicate that he'll rape this little girl so badly that he will need a new child to rape tomorrow?"

Same with Shireen. All we know now is that burning Shireen/her death was GRRM's idea--he never said "you should have Stannis burn Shireen". We don't know how it's going to happen in the books.

Rafford was a horrible horrible person as well you know?
And that's my point, you're giving D&D shit for things GRRM has done as well, and want D&D to change it, whilst no critique is being made of GRRM.

I've always thought GRRM has gotten more praise than necessary, and things like this just adds to it and rubs me the wrong way. If you're going to critique something, at least be consistent, and don't alter it depending on if it's a couple of guys who's work you don't appreciate much and one of your favorite authors.

Still waiting for the payout of that Bronn poisoning scene. There's one more episode left! Hope we don't need to add it to the "that was pointless" pile of wasted time.



I said this in the new NOPE thread, but there are other ways to handle this. Even a throwaway line to him liking girls that look really young would have been fine. We don't NEED to see that. It's just there for the shock spectacle.

Poisoning is over and done with, we got titties, so it's cured (see this a thing that D&D can and should be called out on)

And regarding Shock spectacle, again, I give you half the climax parts of asoif, and for an addition, the Mercy preview chapter.

 

[Jarmel]

Book Jon essentially breaks his vows to pursue a personal vendetta against the Boltons and save his sister. They had a point. Traitors and deserters are executed and what Jon was doing wasn't far from that. There was nothing smart about his response to the pink letter.

Well TV show Jon is going to get killed by bigots so there really isn't much there to discuss.

I feel Book Jon however didn't have a good option from his viewpoint. Unless he started giving up stuff like Stannis's family, Ramsay was coming North anyway. So it makes to attack him first.

Edit: He doesn't even have some of the things he's supposed to give up like Reek.

 

[Euron]

Still waiting for the payout of that Bronn poisoning scene. There's one more episode left! Hope we don't need to add it to the "that was pointless" pile of wasted time.

Are we even going to get some sort of Fire and Blood speech from Doran this season? If not then the entire Dorne arc was useless in the show.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Doran feels like a guy that has some sort of master plan.

 

[Moff]

I said this in the new NOPE thread, but there are other ways to handle this. Even a throwaway line to him liking girls that look really young would have been fine. We don't NEED to see that. It's just there for the shock spectacle.

ah ok, in that case I didnt understand what your problem was, I thought your point was that is was unnecessary to give arya any more motivation to kill trant, but apparently you have a problem with the scene itself?
I don't really mind that, if it makes sense and arya uses that to kill him I am fine with it. if it really was just there to make trant an even meaner baddy then I think it was completely unnecessary.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Are we even going to get some sort of Fire and Blood speech from Doran this season? If not then the entire Dorne arc was useless in the show.

I'm hoping something happens next episode. There has to be a reason for having Areo on the show other than punching Bronn. So I'm still betting the Sand Snakes and Ellaria try something. But at least maybe Bronn doesn't pull an Oakheart.

 

[1138]

I have been a devout member of team Stannis since the last half of a Storm of Swords, but now I hate him more than any other character in the series. I now sincerely hope that Ramsey ends up feeding him to his dogs.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Doran feels like a guy that has some sort of master plan.

Totally. Julian Bashir's insistence on showing his love for the Iron Throne felt off.

 

[KingRagnar]

Or worse, they'll just start saying crap like this:

That's true though.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You could use this argument to dismiss pretty much the entire series.

We already know humans are shitty, we DON'T need GRRM to constantly reminds us over the course of 5 books.

I'm not talking about the books, but even so, rape is handled so much more differently in the books than the show, it's not worth it to compare them. There's a difference between characters talking about rape/rapers (the majority of the book series, outside of Jeyne Poole) and seeing multiple portrayals of rape, sometimes to characters who WEREN'T raped in the books.

 

[kirblar]

There's enough legitimate shit for the way D/D have handled stuff - no need to give them shit simply for plot points that were in the books to begin with.

 

[Fuzzy]

It just gets asked alot, so I guess some people take it as a joke now. But nope, she hasn't shown up, and it's looking like it won't happen.

Looking like? That implies you still think it might happen.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Looking like? That implies you still think it might happen.

Anything is possible, but no it probably won't happen.

 

[Arkeband]

Still waiting for the payout of that Bronn poisoning scene. There's one more episode left! Hope we don't need to add it to the "that was pointless" pile of wasted time.

Bronn is haunted by visions of perfect boobies for the rest of his life, leading to his demise when he starts hallucinating them mid-combat.

 

[Fuzzy]

Totally. Julian Bashir's insistence on showing his love for the Iron Throne felt off.

Of course he has love for the Iron Throne, his son is engaged to the next Queen once the Sand Snakes take out Tommen.

Still waiting for the payout of that Bronn poisoning scene. There's one more episode left! Hope we don't need to add it to the "that was pointless" pile of wasted time.

Tyene is going to sleep with Bronn a bunch of times once they're in KL then frame him for Tommen's death.

 

[Anton Sugar]

ah ok, in that case I didnt understand what your problem was, I thought your point was that is was unnecessary to give arya any more motivation to kill trant, but apparently you have a problem with the scene itself?
I don't really mind that, if it makes sense and arya uses that to kill him I am fine with it. if it really was just there to make trant an even meaner baddy then I think it was completely unnecessary.

Well, my re-imagining of the scene was just a way of working within the "this has to be established because it's related to her assassination" context that everyone is throwing out.

However, yes, I am sure they could have thought of a way to have her kill him that didn't rely on pedophilia.

Rafford was a horrible horrible person as well you know?
And that's my point, you're giving D&D shit for things GRRM has done as well, and want D&D to change it, whilst no critique is being made of GRRM.

You're missing my point: they don't HAVE to use Rafford's characterization/pedophilia. At all. They're the showrunners--they can change his "flaw" that leads to his death. It's like Sansa's rape--I don't care that it happened to another character in the book. It doesn't need to happen on the show, because it's a) redundant and b) shitty shock.

 

[Anarion07]

Holy shit that finale.
Her calm look... screeching.. total silence... and then BOOM, Drogon. Badass entry of the year award.
Rewatched it 5 times now.

 

[UberLevi]

Ellaria totally turned her attitude around really quick. I'm thinking Doran and her had a conversation that we didn't get to see where he was finally like "Listen. Chill. I got a plan for all this and I'll let you in on it if you quit fucking my shit up."

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

I'm amazed how Jon manage to save a shit load of wildings despite the overwhelming odds

#BestPotentialKingRightHere

 

[The Illiterati]

I love that the show is such garbage now. Show watchers are getting what they wanted, GRRM out of the picture, and their fan fiction resolutions.

 

[Arkeband]

Well, my re-imagining of the scene was just a way of working within the "this has to be established because it's related to her assassination" context that everyone is throwing out.

However, yes, I am sure they could have thought of a way to have her kill him that didn't rely on pedophilia.



You're missing my point: they don't HAVE to use Rafford's characterization/pedophilia. At all. They're the showrunners--they can change his "flaw" that leads to his death. It's like Sansa's rape--I don't care that it happened to another character in the book. It doesn't need to happen on the show, because it's a) redundant and b) shitty shock.

Are you that skeeved out by pedophilia being a thing that you want it removed as a concept from the show?

You do realize it's his 'Achilles heel' that Arya will exploit to get him alone...?

 

[Kaladin]

I'm amazed how Jon manage to save a shit load of wildings despite the overwhelming odds

#BestPotentialKingRightHere

Jon is starting to make me think his family name is Cena instead of Stark.

 

[Paches]

The ending scene was so bad. Camo'd harpies run out from no where and then surround them going in 1 at a time like some black and white kung fu movie. Then, they sit there and marvel at the dragon and throw random spears at it instead of just throwing one at Dany's head to instantly win their war.

I literally sat there wondering if this was actually happening.

 

[Real Hero]

The ending scene was so bad. Camo'd harpies run out from no where and then surround them going in 1 at a time like some black and white kung fu movie. Then, they sit there and marvel at the dragon and throw random spears at it instead of just throwing one at Dany's head to instantly win their war.

I literally sat there wondering if this was actually happening.

Yeah it was quite bad. I laughed out loud when the harpies appeared.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Are you that skeeved out by pedophilia being a thing that you want it removed as a concept from the show?

You do realize it's his 'Achilles heel' that Arya will exploit to get him alone...?

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

Shit, instead of saying "Yes, we have a girl like this", tell him "Sorry, we don't have any children to rape here" and then he's pissed off, goes back to his quarters or whatever. Arya can still use the pedophile angle and we can skip Trant drooling his pedophilia.

Would have been much more interesting if Trant was taking a vacation and just needs some time to breathe away from King's Landing, like a normal human being, and Arya still decides to kill him.

 

[Anarion07]

The ending scene was so bad. Camo'd harpies run out from no where and then surround them going in 1 at a time like some black and white kung fu movie. .

It's really hard to hide a mask and put it on.

 

[Paganmoon]

Well, my re-imagining of the scene was just a way of working within the "this has to be established because it's related to her assassination" context that everyone is throwing out.

However, yes, I am sure they could have thought of a way to have her kill him that didn't rely on pedophilia.



You're missing my point: they don't HAVE to use Rafford's characterization/pedophilia. At all. They're the showrunners--they can change his "flaw" that leads to his death. It's like Sansa's rape--I don't care that it happened to another character in the book. It doesn't need to happen on the show, because it's a) redundant and b) shitty shock.

This post contains tWoW preview chapter spoilers:

Spoiler

I guess I'm just missing your point. Rafford was a bastard, cruel and sadistic. In Mercy GRRM adds pedo to the list (a characteristic we hadn't seen before in the books as far as I recall)

Meryn Trant was a bastard, cruel and sadistic, in the show D&D add pedo to the list.

What's the difference, why no shit thrown at GRRM? It's done for the same shock value isn't it? (Also, both can give Arya a good chance for a kill). As I said, consistency in the critique.

And no it's nothing like Sansa's rape, that was horrible for so many reasons, and D&D should rightfully get shit on for that. And this also goes back to the point in my first post on this topic, D&D have made horrible choices, but if you're not consistent in your critique, and let GRRM "get away" with things you shit on D&D for (and added, if you shit on every single thing D&D do), all arguments, even those with actual merit (like the Sansa one), ring hollow in the end.

 

[Anarion07]

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

I think it's more about her being a virgin

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Yeah it was quite bad. I laughed out loud when the harpies appeared.

The music certainly didn't help that part. It sounded like they were actually chanting "Harpies" on the soundtrack.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I guess I'm just missing your point. Rafford was a bastard, cruel and sadistic. In Mercy GRRM adds pedo to the list (a characteristic we hadn't seen before in the books as far as I recall)
Meryn Trant was a bastard, cruel and sadistic, in the show D&D add pedo to the list.

What's the difference, why no shit thrown at GRRM? It's done for the same shock value isn't it? (Also, both can give Arya a good chance for a kill). As I said, consistency in the critique.

And no it's nothing like Sansa's rape, that was horrible for so many reasons, and D&D should rightfully get shit on for that. And this also goes back to the point in my first post on this topic, D&D have made horrible choices, but if you're not consistent in your critique, and let GRRM "get away" with things you shit on D&D for (and added, if you shit on every single thing D&D do), all arguments, even those with actual merit (like the Sansa one), ring hollow in the end.

I'm not talking about the books, I don't give a fuck what's in the books--D&D can change it. That's their superpower. They know where certain characters have to end up, but otherwise they get to do what they want. We can criticize GRRM in a book discussion. This is a show discussion, where D&D have a large degree of freedom to create change. I am criticizing their decisions, not GRRM's.

 

[Real Hero]

The music certainly didn't help that part. It sounded like they were actually chanting "Harpies" on the soundtrack.

Yep, it was like goofy south park music

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Loved Alliser Thorne's passive aggressiveness towards Jon. Praises Jon snow for having a good heart and criticise him at the same time for letting the wildings in. And he doesn't call him Lord Snow now. There a tiny bit of respect to Jon's authority.

What clever little twat

 

[Paganmoon]

I'm not talking about the books, I don't give a fuck what's in the books--D&D can change it. That's their superpower. They know where certain characters have to end up, but otherwise they get to do what they want. We can criticize GRRM in a book discussion. This is a show discussion, where D&D have a large degree of freedom to create change. I am criticizing their decisions, not GRRM's.

Their decisions are based on GRRM's, so my question if I'm to put it straight, is since you're a book reader (and I guess you are since you're here), why haven't you criticized GRRM for these things in the book thread.
And this is coming of as an all out attack on you, it is not, I apologize if it seems that way.

My original post was aimed at the many who were parroting the same arguments, re: Arya, Dany, Shireen, so my question stands for anyone who took issue with the Arya scenes, and why there was no issue with it in the preview chapter (which was extensively discussed in the book thread).

 

[Liquidsnake]

Why do you guys Loath Olly so much.

 

[Dysun]

Would have liked a softer touch with Olly, everyone and their mother is prepared for him stabbing Jon next week

There's no subtlety on the show though, so that's asking too much

 

[Real Hero]

Why do you guys Loath Olly so much.

All he does is stare hatefully at Jon Snow and thinks about his mums world class potatoes

 

[Arkeband]

Okay, I guess there are two issues: the first is that pedophilia is completely unnecessary, if the goal is just to make this dude look worse. We know he's a bad dude, Arya knows he's a bad dude, EVERYONE knows he's a bad dude. We don't need anything "extra" to make him even worse.

But, when that's brought up, the retort is "well, it's going to play into his assassination scene". Which, okay, fine--they need to establish that he's a pedophile. What they didn't need to do, was trot out a terrified child and then have Trant indicate he's going to rape her so horribly that she won't even be rapeable ON THE MORROW.

Shit, instead of saying "Yes, we have a girl like this", tell him "Sorry, we don't have any children to rape here" and then he's pissed off, goes back to his quarters or whatever. Arya can still use the pedophile angle and we can skip Trant drooling his pedophilia.

Would have been much more interesting if Trant was taking a vacation and just needs some time to breathe away from King's Landing, like a normal human being, and Arya still decides to kill him.

The part I bolded - I think you're looking at this the wrong way. The point was it seemed like the brothel only had one young girl, so Trant lucked out. But since I can imagine if he's planning on staying there a few consecutive nights, any patron might want to try out multiple girls - this is naturally going to be more difficult for Trant if he's only into kids. So he warns them ahead of time, 'you'd better find another one for me by tomorrow.', which gives Arya the opening she needs.

I'm sure we all disapprove of some fake girl being forced into prostitution offscreen but the spirit of it comes from the books and it works for the show, so I'd rather they do this than trust D&D to come up with their own version.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Book Jon essentially breaks his vows to pursue a personal vendetta against the Boltons and save his sister. They had a point. Traitors and deserters are executed and what Jon was doing wasn't far from that. There was nothing smart about his response to the pink letter.

You could argue - and Jon would certainly make this argument - that Ramsay made a direct threat against the NW and thus forced him to act. And while I can see that perspective ultimately I do believe Jon violated his vows. If anything the NW should have stayed at the Wall, dispatched scouts to make sure Ramsay didn't blindside them, and prepared to do battle.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Their decisions are based on GRRM's, so my question if I'm to put it straight, is since you're a book reader (and I guess you are since you're here), why haven't you criticized GRRM for these things in the book thread.
And this is coming of as an all out attack on you, it is not, I apologize if it seems that way.

My original post was aimed at the many who were parroting the same arguments, re: Arya, Dany, Shireen, so my question stands for anyone who took issue with the Arya scenes, and why there was no issue with it in the preview chapter (which was extensively discussed in the book thread).

Well, for me, I read the books years ago and am watching the show now. I'm discussing things that are occurring, on the show, now.

There is nothing preventing us from discussing what happened in the show if we've yet to discuss its equivalent book action. "Why didn't you complain about it in the books?" is stifling discussion.

I think it's more about her being a virgin

The part I bolded - I think you're looking at this the wrong way. The point was it seemed like the brothel only had one young girl, so Trant lucked out. But since I can imagine if he's planning on staying there a few consecutive nights, any patron might want to try out multiple girls - this is naturally going to be more difficult for Trant if he's only into kids. So he warns them ahead of time, 'you'd better find another one for me by tomorrow.', which gives Arya the opening she needs.

I'm sure we all disapprove of some fake girl being forced into prostitution offscreen but the spirit of it comes from the books and it works for the show, so I'd rather they do this than trust D&D to come up with their own version.

Doesn't he specifically say he needs a "fresh one" for the next day? Doesn't sound to me like a night of gentle virgin-only love-making.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Are we talking about the books? Because why them stabbing Jon was stupid he did break his oath by trying to take the Wildings and any Night's Watchmen who would join him South to attack Winterfell. It's only after his declared treason that he gets stabbed. If the show keeps that in then it will be alright and Olly can be considered somewhat justified after Jon and Sam's whole "you gotta be loyal to the Watch" speeches.

Hmm...

Ramsay threatened him though, as commander of the watch.

Obviously Jon has ulterior motives, but it still could be considered acting for the watch, not for personal gain.

 

[HeavenlyStriker]

this show man... i'm starting to think d&d are hacks