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[Anton Sugar]

Yet they still got their ass handed to them by some noblemen in goofy halloween masks flailing about with knives. While the actual sellsword (Daario) is easily able to keep a horde of them at bay.

On a scale of "Barristan" to "Ramsay", where would the Unsullied rank?

They're half-trained boys. They are not ready for combat. They are single-minded and perform as one unit, but they are not battle-tested.

There's no reason to expect that they'd beat Stannis' army with similar numbers for example.

Why did Dany choose to hire an army of half-trained boys when she could have bought battle-tested mercs/sellswords?

Leaving Stannis out of it (I guess you were extrapolating towards a final encounter), I'd expect them to fare much better against Harpy scrubs.

Remember Grey Worm, remember the Grey Worm and Missandei thing, what was the point in that hahahaha.

Ugh. If we had to waste time on a Missandei storyline, why couldn't it have been hers and Dany's?

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Grey Worm's not dead yet is he? was just wounded iirc?

And now he'll get Greyscale from Missandei who got it from Dany who got it from Jorah.

 

[Moosichu]

They're half-trained boys. They are not ready for combat. They are single-minded and perform as one unit, but they are not battle-tested.

There's no reason to expect that they'd beat Stannis' army with similar numbers for example.

What? The Unsullied have a great reputation. Yes they have weakpoints, but they are still formidable and enough to have Tywin sweating at the thought of them crossing the narrow sea.

Also, they shouldn't be able to feel pain and plot holes like that in the show are the most grating thing. The show isn't being consitent with itself.

 

[Paganmoon]

And now he'll get Greyscale from Missandei who got it from Dany who got it from Jorah.

And then he'll release the dragons?

 

[BertramCooper]

This show is fucking stupid.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Imagine the entire cast 4-10 years younger across the board. Sansa, Arya, Dany, and Robb in particular.

Sounds like an anime to me honestly
You Westerners and your obsession with old foggies for heroes... lol!

But seriously, I think George himself has admitted having problems with the ages.
Back in the dung ages kids were married off or sent to war sure but not while still suckling on their mother's teats as George seems to imply.

I think calling him a "perverted sicko" is doing disservice to all the hard work

 

[Red Arremer]

They're half-trained boys. They are not ready for combat. They are single-minded and perform as one unit, but they are not battle-tested.

There's no reason to expect that they'd beat Stannis' army with similar numbers for example.

During the Battle of Qohor, 3000 Unsullied defeated 50,000 battle-hardened Dothraki, killing 12k of them while "only" 2400 Unsullied fell.
Young they may be, but they are trained from an extremely young age and drilled their entire lives.

On a scale of "Barristan" to "Ramsay", where would the Unsullied rank?

Book Unsullied are probably closer to Ramsay, perhaps Hound level. But show Unsullied are closer to Catelyn level.

 

[bengraven]

Thank God. I'm sick of her attitude.

 

[Paganmoon]

During the Battle of Qohor, 3000 Unsullied defeated 50,000 battle-hardened Dothraki, killing 12k of them while "only" 2400 Unsullied fell.
Young they may be, but they are trained from an extremely young age and drilled their entire lives.




Book Unsullied are probably closer to Ramsay, perhaps Hound level. But show Unsullied are closer to Catelyn level.

Maybe the show is implying Dany's been too soft on them, and they've lost their discipline, or something

 

[Speevy]

Guys, "half-trained boys" and "not battle tested" are direct quotes from the show.

The Astapori guy says they learn the spear from birth, they feel no pain, but he does not speak of great battles already won.

Plus, the entire "sons of harpy" thing is supposed to mirror the real world of guerilla fighters like those in Vietnam or Iraq.

They show up, kill quickly, and cower back into the shadows. The fact that they could be anyone is more important than their fighting skill.

 

[Fuzzy]

Thank God. I'm sick of her attitude.

That doesn't mean she'll shut up about the show.

 

[Anton Sugar]

So, basically, Dany got conned?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Book Unsullied are probably closer to Ramsay, perhaps Hound level. But show Unsullied are closer to Catelyn level.

Catelyn at least managed to kill someone.

This show is fucking stupid.

This is my favorite post.

 

[Red Arremer]

Guys, "half-trained boys" and "not battle tested" are direct quotes from the show.

You're aware that the "half-trained boys" are not ALL of the Unsullied? Dany specifically asks for the fully trained Unsullied, and those who are in training. The slavers are concerned that those who are still in training, i.e. the "half-trained boys", would sully (pun intended) the reputation of Astapor and the quality of its soldiers, but Dany demands them.

Are you implying that all of the fully trained Unsullied died in the attack on Yunkai/Meereen and that only the half-trained ones remain, who, in those various years after Dany's conquest of Astapor, never finished their training (disregarding the fact that their training likely would not be as vicious as the older generation)?

 

[Tabris]

Why are people complaining about the Unsullied? There was just a small force in the arena. The rest of the 8000 were back in the city. They were ambushed in the arena. It was meant to be a quick surgical strike by the sons of the harpy and then they would have fled back into the city after.

We can assume those 8000 came marching into the arena and cleaned up after the events occurred.

EDIT - Also all the kills were usually shown as 3 on 1 kind of deals.

 

[Moosichu]

Guys, "half-trained boys" and "not battle tested" are direct quotes from the show.

The Astapori guy says they learn the spear from birth, they feel no pain, but he does not speak of great battles already won.

Plus, the entire "sons of harpy" thing is supposed to mirror the real world of guerilla fighters like those in Vietnam or Iraq.

They show up, kill quickly, and cower back into the shadows. The fact that they could be anyone is more important than their fighting skill.

But the problem with the show is that they don't attack in the shadows. The pit fight was anything but Guerilla.

And those quotes at the top only refer to the Unsullied in training and go against your point as it confirms the rest of the Unsullied are fully trained and battle tested warriors.

 

[bengraven]

That doesn't mean she'll shut up about the show.

 

[Enosh]

During the Battle of Qohor, 3000 Unsullied defeated 50,000 battle-hardened Dothraki, killing 12k of them while "only" 2400 Unsullied fell.
Young they may be, but they are trained from an extremely young age and drilled their entire lives.

yeah the dothraki kinda come off from that one as utter morons given that all they did was repeatedly charge their front ranks, instead of you know, using anything other than "charge the front while screaming"
and the unsullied still managed to loose most of their numbers in what's basically a best case scenario against a idiotic enemy

 

[munchie64]

Thank God. I'm sick of her attitude.

Wait. Is she still complaining about the Inside the Episode thing? Is that the reason she's quitting?

 

[foxtrot3d]

So on another note, did anyone notice that the dude that almost killed Jorah was a Bravosi water dancer? I think that's the first time the show has shown us what a proper water dace looks like.

 

[Red Arremer]

When Grey Worm helped taking Yunkai by sneaking in through the back door, he was being a badass, and was able to take on multiple guards. THAT was how the Unsullied are supposed to fight.

However during this fight in the pits there was no "hidden attack" - it was bright daylight, and with the fight in the alleyway in which Barristan died and Grey Worm got injured, the numbers seemed to be about even. Also keep in mind that the Sons of the Harpy, guerilla or not, are not any more "battle-hardened" as the Unsullied, and given the fact they're all nobles, it's doubtful they had very extensive combat training.

So on another note, did anyone notice that the dude that almost killed Jorah was a Bravosi water dancer? I think that's the first time the show has shown us what a proper water dace looks like.

Yeah, I enjoyed that tidbit. I was like "Ooo, a Bravos!"

 

[Fuzzy]

Why are people complaining about the Unsullied? There was just a small force in the arena. The rest of the 8000 were back in the city. They were ambushed in the arena. It was meant to be a quick surgical strike by the sons of the harpy and then they would have fled back into the city after.

We can assume those 8000 came marching into the arena and cleaned up after the events occurred.

EDIT - Also all the kills were usually shown as 3 on 1 kind of deals.

But that's not what was shown. Yes they quickly came out and killed a bunch of people but then they encircled the group and attacked one at a time instead of overwhelming them. It was stupid.

 

[Brakke]

Hard to say she got "conned" if she didn't pay anything for them...

But yeah this whole fixation on Unsullied performance is lame. Why would you rely more on their reputation than their demonstrated ability?

It's simply not true that the Harpies are untrained, fat, lazy noblemen. We know they aren't because they've demonstrated skill at fighting. It's not true that the Unsullied are unstoppable champions of single combat, we know they aren't because we've seen them get killed. In fact we've never seen Unsullied be Total Motherfuckers except for Greyworm, and he's been consistently Excellent in a fight. So that one dude got his nip snipped? The show's gone on to show that dude was the exception, not the rule. Y'all gotta recalibrate.

Also Daario isn't just "a sellsword" he's a champion of the Pit, victorious after hundreds of fights. He beat the champion of Meereen like nothing.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Is Shireen's death confirmed for the future books? Or something D&D came up with?

Seems like it:

Once Stannis makes a decision, he never changes his mind. It's why he's a strong commander. And it's his weakness, but he's defined by his will-the only way is forward. Melisandre gives him a opportunity for the lord of light to set him free. It's a scene that asks what if you're wrong? You're gonna do this terrible thing for a higher calling, what if you're not right? It comes down to ambition, and familial love. Stannis choses ambition. When George first told us this, I looked at Dan and said it was horrible. And good in the story sense. Cause in the beginning they were burning people alive on the beaches of Dragon Stone, and it comes down to this. We've been talking about king's blood, and it comes down to Shireen's sacrifice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ

 

[Taiser]

When Aegon the Conqueror came to Westeros, his dragon Balerion was huuuuge.

O_O ... well, that's more like it.

 

[Ape Gone Insane]

Last I remember, at about 30 seconds. Roose mentions the Blackfish escaped, Walder Frey says "Old Man, on the run, no allies. I have Tywin Lannister in my corner, who does he have?"

Show needs a reappearance of Beric, Thoros, Blackfish, Syrio Forel and RowBoy. A True BWB to be proud of.

 

[Amir0x]

When Grey Worm helped taking Yunkai by sneaking in through the back door, he was being a badass, and was able to take on multiple guards. THAT was how the Unsullied are supposed to fight.

However during this fight in the pits there was no "hidden attack" - it was bright daylight, and with the fight in the alleyway in which Barristan died and Grey Worm got injured, the numbers seemed to be about even. Also keep in mind that the Sons of the Harpy, guerilla or not, are not any more "battle-hardened" as the Unsullied, and given the fact they're all nobles, it's doubtful they had very extensive combat training.

Even though the Unsullied is yet another thing the shows are handling painfully, I am a bit confused why we think being nobles means you wouldn't be trained or battle-hardened in combat. In the era that this show is attempting to replicate, that's literally the exact opposite of true - nobles were almost unanimously the best fighters, because they could afford the good equipment and good trainers and the luxury of their time. Note that some of the best fighters in the books are nobles, and the same is true of actual history.

I'm not saying it's plausible that the Sons of the Harpies could take down the Unsullied (it's pretty clear there's no way that would happen without the show fucking everything), but I'm also not sure where we are getting nobles wouldn't be trained to fight. Was there a passage that suggested this in the books? I might have missed it.

 

[Lonestar]

But the problem with the show is that they don't attack in the shadows. The pit fight was anything but Guerilla.

True, but it was also a way to have enough people be close enough to the Queen to kill her. So, they tried, came close, but failed because of Randrogo.

Feel like Daario should have unveiled a plan to solve the anonymous Harpy problem. Kill the entire family of any and all found out Harpy's. Though, guess that's pretty Mad King like, and probably would end up having to kill the entire city.

But, it might be about to happen anyway, depending on however Dany shows back up, assuming she wants the other 2 dragons as well.

 

[Moosichu]

Hard to say she got "conned" if she didn't pay anything for them...

But yeah this whole fixation on Unsullied performance is lame. Why would you rely more on their reputation than their demonstrated ability?

It's simply not true that the Harpies are untrained, fat, lazy noblemen. We know they aren't because they've demonstrated skill at fighting. It's not true that the Unsullied are unstoppable champions of single combat, we know they aren't because we've seen them get killed. In fact we've never seen Unsullied be Total Motherfuckers except for Greyworm, and he's been consistently Excellent in a fight. So that one dude got his nip snipped? The show's gone on to show that dude was the exception, not the rule. Y'all gotta recalibrate.

Also Daario isn't just "a sellsword" he's a champion of the Pit, victorious after hundreds of fights. He beat the champion of Meereen like nothing.

The problem is that that is the rule. Within the fiction of the show and the books, the Unsullied physically can't feel pain.

 

[Arabesque]

Is Shireen's death confirmed for the future books? Or something D&D came up with?

It was something that was suspected for a long while now, and made sense given how gung-ho Melisandre had been about burning anyone who even had any relation to a "King", regardless if they were wildlings, babies or elderly.

Obviously Stannis wouldn't do it the book because the situations are different, but I think we can safely assume Shireen is going to die by burning *somehow* in TWOW.

Which honestly leaves me wondering if we are going to see Edric Storm get legitimatised to become Stannis' heir (either of Storm's End and House Baratheon or even to the Iron Thron, in a Henry the 7th style).

Regardless of what happens in the books, the situation in the show makes this move even more questionable for Stannis since outside of Gendry, Robert's basterd's had not been focused on at all during the show and we don't know if Cersei managed to kill them all.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

It was something that was suspected for a long while now, and made sense given how gung-ho Melisandre had been about burning anyone who even had any relation to a "King", regardless if they were wildlings, babies or elderly.

Obviously Stannis wouldn't do it the book because the situations are different, but I think we can safely assume Shireen is going to die by burning *somehow* in TWOW.

Which honestly leaves me wondering if we are going to see Edric Storm get legitimatised to become Stannis' heir (either of Storm's End and House Baratheon or even to the Iron Thron, in a Henry the 7th style).

Regardless of what happens in the books, the situation in the show makes this move even more questionable for Stannis since outside of Gendry, Robert's basterd's had not been focused on at all during the show and we don't know if Cersei managed to kill them all.

Seems like it:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ

Well shoot. That's sad to hear but again, no way was George gonna let cutesy wootsy Shireen live
Though I suspect Stannis in the book will somehow be involved with Shireen's burning, not something you do in secret
And yes the bastards situation was dropped like rock, very unfortunate and means no more Gendry
Are D&D planning to bring any of these characters back, don't people question them?

I honestly hope Gendry comes back piloting a Titan or something

 

[bengraven]

Wait. Is she still complaining about the Inside the Episode thing? Is that the reason she's quitting?

I have no idea. She's so much better than all of us anyway, so she's probably far deeper than any of us can think. After a long day of polo I'm sure she went home, made some "you've never heard of it" tea and called George to talk about how the "r-----d f-gs" fucked up her show.

 

[munchie64]

Thank you. Always felt he was missing from that image.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Seems like it:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfLScJVXBHQ

Sacrifice makes it sound like she wanted it. This was murder. Pure and simple.

 

[Brakke]

given the fact [the Harpies]'re all nobles

That isn't a given fact, you're assuming that. They probably represent noble interests but they could easily include former pit-fighter slaves, Meereenese soldiers, whatever.

The problem is that that is the rule. Within the fiction of the show and the books, the Unsullied physically can't feel pain.

The fiction of the books isn't relevant on this point. We've only ever seen one show-Unsullied be immune to pain and that was for a pre-planned demonstration.

 

[munchie64]

How accurate is this? (to the books, I would assume)

 

[Red Arremer]

Even though the Unsullied is yet another thing the shows are handling painfully, I am a bit confused why we think being nobles means you wouldn't be trained or battle-hardened in combat. In the era that this show is attempting to replicate, that's literally the exact opposite of true - nobles were almost unanimously the best fighters, because they could afford the good equipment and good trainers and the luxury of their time. Note that some of the best fighters in the books are nobles, and the same is true of actual history.

I'm not saying it's plausible that the Sons of the Harpies could take down the Unsullied (it's pretty clear there's no way that would happen without the show fucking everything), but I'm also not sure where we are getting nobles wouldn't be trained to fight. Was there a passage that suggested this in the books? I might have missed it.

I'm aware that nobility is getting combat training, but the combat focus for nobles seems to be mostly in Westeros. Most nobility in Essos hires guards and soldiers, that's why sellsword companies and slave soldiers are so popular there. The combat training for nobles in Slaver's Bay is also comparably bad, as evidenced by the Yunkish forces and the ineptitude of their illustrious range of "generals". None of them were proper warriors, getting carried by slaves and whatnot. The Yunkish were on the verge of losing their war against Meereen.

The only single noble we've seen perform an actual act of combat was the champion of Pahl who got completely destroyed by Strong Belwas (or Daario in the show). And I guess the Shavepate could be considered being a decent commander of his Brazen Beasts.

 

[old]

How accurate is this? (to the books, I would assume)

I don't know. But the books make a point that dragons can live hundreds of years and never stop growing as long they're properly fed.

 

[Fuzzy]

Even though the Unsullied is yet another thing the shows are handling painfully, I am a bit confused why we think being nobles means you wouldn't be trained or battle-hardened in combat. In the era that this show is attempting to replicate, that's literally the exact opposite of true - nobles were almost unanimously the best fighters, because they could afford the good equipment and good trainers and the luxury of their time. Note that some of the best fighters in the books are nobles, and the same is true of actual history.

I'm not saying it's plausible that the Sons of the Harpies could take down the Unsullied (it's pretty clear there's no way that would happen without the show fucking everything), but I'm also not sure where we are getting nobles wouldn't be trained to fight. Was there a passage that suggested this in the books? I might have missed it.

I can't remember anything specifically from the books but we know for sure it's not true of nobles from Westeros but we can't be sure the same can be said for those from Meereen. That being said, the SotH don't actually need to be the nobles, they can be the people they used to keep their slaves in check and once again working on behalf of the nobles.

 

[ColonialRaptor]

It's been such a strange ride this season. This is my first time in this thread and I just dunno what to say.

So many things they've done amazingly well that makes my imaginings of what happened in the books pale in comparison and so many things that are reaching for the stars and don't even come close to the way I saw things.

I really don't understand why they deviated from the book story line except if they're going in a completely different direction for the ending because George hasnt finished the books yet but then that just becomes weird for book readers to watch the show and be confused by things.

But that said. That dragon scene! Wow! Except... He's supposed to be bigger!

And why Jorah getting greyscale?

Also, people worrying about Dany getting greyscale it is said many times that true targeryan blood is immune to most if not all diseases (Dany has never been sick in her life).

I forget why the harpies are doing what there doing and so I'm going to read the whole set of books again but it's kind of weird the way they've presented things. They've never really made it clear why the harpies are fighting... I have my estimations of the reasons but I can't reconcile it with what im seeing on screen.

And I mean, in the books melisandre wasn't even with stannis's army. That significantly lowers my expectation of Jon being stabbed at the end of the season.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Sacrifice makes it sound like she wanted it. This was murder. Pure and simple.

Like she jumps in the fire of her own volition to save her dad somehow (something Melisandre says perhaps)?
It would sort of make sense for D&D to twist that for ratings purposes

 

[suzu]

How accurate is this? (to the books, I would assume)

From the wiki/books.

Balerion was the largest of all the Targaryen dragons, his teeth were as long as swords and his jaws big enough to swallow a mammoth whole. His fire was as black as his scales, his wingspan so vast that entire towns would fall under his shadow when he passed overhead.

As of A Dance with Dragons, Drogon's wings stretch 20 feet from tip-to-tip, black as jet.

 

[Look! The Pie!]

Just watched the episode. Still trying to process that scene, but for now, I'll say two things: as much as I hate what happened, the scene itself was wonderfully directed and acted (top marks to Dillane, who actually made me feel something more than just outright disgust and loathing towards Satannis), and Shireen's screams are going to stay with me for a while.

As for the rest of the episode? Meh. God Mode Ramsay and his 20 Good Men somehow manage to sneak past an entire army and burn the apparently unguarded supply tents without suffering a single casualty? Next episode, I'm actually half-expecting him to do a shirtless kamikaze charge into Stannis's forces and STILL come out unscathed. Arya's scenes should be exciting and intriguing but just seem to drag, and I'm not sure the Meryn Trant, Pedo of the Kingsguard reveal was necessary. Guess we couldn't have an episode without at least an implied rape. Nothing happened at the Wall, and by this point I'm sure even the densest of the unsullied are expecting the "shocking" twist in the next episode (but hey, let's have Olly glare at Jon for the 150th time, just in case we haven't telegraphed his betrayal sufficiently). Dorne continues to be an utter waste of money, acting talent and screen time (seriously, we lost Jaime's Riverlands story, Lady Stoneheart and other book material for this?). Brienne is MIA once again, and presumably still hanging out outside Winterfell (it's hard to believe they cut her much-reviled AFFC material and STILL managed to make her arc this season even more boring). Daznak's Pit was horribly staged and lacked any kind of tension (there was one awful prolonged moment when the harpies were surrounding Dany and her entourage but nobody was actually doing anything, like they were all waiting for a cue from the director. It seemed to go on forever). I did think the dragon-riding CGI was absolutely fine, however, especially for a TV show.

Man, reading that back, I sound like a complete stereotype of a disgruntled book reader, but believe it or not, I used to defend the show to the hilt when people would complain about D&D's changes or the declining overall quality. It's becoming increasingly harder for me to do so.

 

[munchie64]

From the wiki/books.

Hmm so not accurate at all really. Vast overstatement for at least the current Dragons.

 

[Blue Ninja]

The problem is that that is the rule. Within the fiction of the show and the books, the Unsullied physically can't feel pain.

Of course they can feel pain. They're just taught to ignore it.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

About the whole feel no pain thing: That's because of a drug which the unsullied themselves may not know how to produce. Or they might know how, but the ingredients are only available in Astapoor. Or they may still be able to take the drug, but some of them still refuce to, because they consider it a part of the slavery and memories they want to leave behind.

 

[A_Gorilla]

How accurate is this? (to the books, I would assume)

Now way in hell is Drogon that big. Not even half that.

 

[Red Arremer]

Shireen's screams are going to stay with me for a while.

 

[Brakke]

I'm aware that nobility is getting combat training, but the combat focus for nobles seems to be mostly in Westeros. Most nobility in Essos hires guards and soldiers, that's why sellsword companies and slave soldiers are so popular there. The combat training for nobles in Slaver's Bay is also comparably bad, as evidenced by the Yunkish forces and the ineptitude of their illustrious range of "generals". None of them were proper warriors, getting carried by slaves and whatnot. The Yunkish were on the verge of losing their war against Meereen.

The only single noble we've seen perform an actual act of combat was the champion of Pahl who got completely destroyed by Strong Belwas (or Daario in the show). And I guess the Shavepate could be considered being a decent commander of his Brazen Beasts.

None of these things are relevant to the show. No Yunkish generals, no Brazen Beasts, barely Shavepate. Daario killing the Meereenese champion is an endorsement for Daario, not an indictment of Meereenese martial ability.

This isn't hard. Show-Unsullied are simply nerfed compared to book Unsullied. Which, of course they are. They're Dany's entire military in the show. Where in the books she has sellswords, Dothraki, etc, pulling down the overall average of her force's skill-level.

And they did well in the pit! Once they made a formation, they were killing Harpies at better than one each. They didn't even lose that fight.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Only way I can't absolutely despise her is if most of the rumors of Jon in the books are true. God damn this season is gonna end with it isn't it? TV readers will know the pain of us book readers, only they have to wait only one year.