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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO

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Mxrz

Member
Yeah the show has done one weird thing the books weren't able to, actually root for Cersei. That is sort of messed up given all she has done. But I found myself hoping she would not break on the walk, but get stronger as she got closer to the keep.

Maybe she's the one True King.
 

Brakke

Banned
I mean, Ellaria killing Myrcella fits with her motivations - I just thought it was cliched to have Myrcella reconcile with her father just moments before her death. "Hey dad/uncle I'm totes chill with you boning mom/aunt. The heart wants what it wa-ack I'm dying!"

Yeah it's true. There was a weird roller coaster there. Like their relationship goes from sassy emo teenager yelling "you're not my real dad!!" and slamming the door to "I love you I'm glad you're my dad" super quick. I think it works to do that turn so quick but then you really ought to "earn" it after the fact, working those two up as cool pals that share an objective understanding of Cersei and who share a similar attitude about love.

It's like. There's a scaffolding there for sure. But not nearly as much structure as I wanted.

I really liked the acting though. That scene -- totally isolated -- does work. There's nothing I want more than humbled, one-hand Jaime finally stepping up to the fatherly role.
 

CloudWolf

Member
oh my god

this means the pink letter WAS a forgery, or at least an exaggeration. we know melisandre and shireen and selyse are still at the wall -- and we weren't sure the extent to which stannis' army really was crushed.

now assume it really was and the scene we see with brienne is true in a fashion (we think he's dead but not sure).

dude is totally crawling back to the wall and will burn shireen there.

but why?

:(

No one knows whether Stannis' army is going to be crushed by the Boltons, since the show deviated very far from Stannis' book story in this season. Hell, there's a pretty big chance that the Pink Letter isn't even written by Ramsay and perhaps even written by Stannis or Mance Rayder.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
No way. There's nothing to return to. They've both gone so far off tangent that it's no longer possible for them to go in a different direction. Jaime will be dealing with a dead Myrcella and Cersei's trail, and his character still loves Cersei and won't abandon her. Completely different from the books. Sansa is now with Theon, she knows her brothers are alive, and soon everyone in the North will know that Sansa Stark is alive and on the run. Again, completely different from the books.
As they pointed out in the Inside the Episode segment, Cersei took note that no one but the mad scientist was there to help her. She'll probably hold a grudge against Jaime for not being there and letting Myrcella die, and will this push him away. Since he won't serve a purpose in the trial and Tommen will be heavily controlled by Kevan, Jaime's plot will have to go elsewhere. While the show does go in tangents and will mess up the plots, it still likes to return to the original book stories even if it takes an illogical path there. In this case, the Jaime-Cersei break apart will still occur, only it'll be Cersei who pushes away first this time.

Same goes for Sansa. Her plot has no where to go but back to the Vale and the handful of plots left there. Though I'm sure they'll use that up and get crazier pretty quickly. The point is she's probably returning to Littlefinger's care so she can get out of it in whatever fashion she will in the future books.
 

Joe

Member
might be a dumb question but is it possible, in the timeline of the next 2 books/seasons, that the narrow sea freezes over? for the dothraki to cross...
 

Mxrz

Member
The North is huge. Like, bigger than the South. Ned was super respected by all of it. There should be any number of people and houses--with actual armies--that wouild take Sansa in. Going back to the Vale/Littlefinger would be Guhh.

Theon will kill Ramsey, if Jon doesn't come back. That's about all I have going in season six/Winds.

might be a dumb question but is it possible, in the timeline of the next 2 books/seasons, that the narrow sea freezes over? for the dothraki to cross...

I don't believe the East even gets the Winter, does it? or even Dorne for that matter.
 
might be a dumb question but is it possible, in the timeline of the next 2 books/seasons, that the narrow sea freezes over? for the dothraki to cross...

That's probably unlikely. The Narrow Sea is too large and too far south to completely freeze over like that.
 

Brakke

Banned
And they just circled her. It was silly.

I just hate that she wasn't with her dragon. Again, they get the main bullet point, Dany meets a buncha Dothraki, and like last week, they miss all the context. Dany should be all Fire and Blood right now, but nope we need her to be a damsel for Jorah and Daario next season.
So that'll be fun.

All I could think about was how Dany was about to teach the Dothraki about rock 'n roll

tumblr_lyzrfpQrP61qbbcazo1_500.gif


"Hacks!" *ring ring*
"Hacks!" *ring ring*

I laughed.
 

duckroll

Member
As they pointed out in the Inside the Episode segment, Cersei took note that no one but the mad scientist was there to help her. She'll probably hold a grudge against Jaime for not being there and letting Myrcella die, and will this push him away. Since he won't serve a purpose in the trial and Tommen will be heavily controlled by Kevan, Jaime's plot will have to go elsewhere. While the show does go in tangents and will mess up the plots, it still likes to return to the original book stories even if it takes an illogical path there. In this case, the Jaime-Cersei break apart will still occur, only it'll be Cersei who pushes away first this time.

Same goes for Sansa. Her plot has no where to go but back to the Vale and the handful of plots left there. Though I'm sure they'll use that up and get crazier pretty quickly. The point is she's probably returning to Littlefinger's care so she can get out of it in whatever fashion she will in the future books.

Jaime leaving Cersei doesn't mean anything. There's no book plot for him to "return" to. The situations are too different even if the motivations can be similar. They'll just make up new adventures for him like they did this season. In the end, his ultimate fate might be the same as whatever it is in the books, but that doesn't mean the journey will be similar anymore.

Sansa.... errr... who cares I guess. Lol. :(
 

Clipjoint

Member
I'm guessing they swapped Brienne and LSH with that Stannis scene. She asked for his last words, and Stannis said "go on do your duty." At that point she remembered that her sworn duty is to rescue Sansa (you can totally see her hesitate when he said that) and she didn't end up killing him - just like LSH didn't end up killing Brienne despite the fakeout.
 

Brakke

Banned
That's probably unlikely. The Narrow Sea is too large and too far south to completely freeze over like that.

"Far too south"? Winter is so poorly defined in this world we have no idea how it works with latitude (or longitude -- it's always been unclear if Essos experiences the same winter as Westeros).
 
I'm guessing they swapped Brienne and LSH with that Stannis scene. She asked for his last words, and Stannis said "go on do your duty." At that point she remembered that her sworn duty is to rescue Sansa (you can totally see her hesitate when he said that) and she didn't end up killing him - just like LSH didn't end up killing Brienne despite the fakeout.
Interesting, if he lives, he could be book Mance and get Sansa away from Winterfell.
 

Ogimachi

Member
might be a dumb question but is it possible, in the timeline of the next 2 books/seasons, that the narrow sea freezes over? for the dothraki to cross...
Freeze over? No, but storms can be pretty brutal in winter. I believe there's a chance the dothraki/mongol parallel theory is right and grrm will mirror the first attempted mongol invasion of Japan, where their ships were all destroyed by storms so it was over before they even got there.
 

Mxrz

Member
Stannis & Brienne road trip in season six. After reforming Jamie, she'll take on the bigger challenge of Stannis. After that, it'll be Ramsey in season 7.

She's a damn paladin.
 
"Far too south"? Winter is so poorly defined in this world we have no idea how it works with latitude (or longitude -- it's always been unclear if Essos experiences the same winter as Westeros).

The North is still colder than the South, there's absolutely no reason to doubt this.
 
- The Dorne plot is fucked up. Why waste time here? Also, Myrcella didn't die a queen...

Because the next book is written yet. That is why they have wasted so much time with irrelevant side plots like Dorne, Stannis and presumably the iron isles next season.

If George didn't try to make those bits interesting or relevant, you can't blame the showrunners.

Meanwhile Jon staying dead? Come on.
 

Snake

Member
I love that so much of the initial bile directed at this episode was because of a complete failure to comprehend what happened (such as thinking Stannis is dead) and because the show did not spoil The Winds of Winter. It's like some book readers came face to face with the faults of AFFC and ADWD again, and tried their best to funnel all of the blame towards D&D and away from GRRM. Which is doubly funny since I still liked AFFC and ADWD despite their faults.

As for the episode and the season, true, Dorne was bad. A waste of time and actors pretty much any way you cut it. But aside from that I can't think of anything I actively hated in this episode beyond the fact that we're left on nuttin' but cliffhangers. There are a thousand and one things I would have liked to add to the season, and numerous nitpicks and slight changes I feel would have made it better, but I'm sure any discussion will be drowned out by the 400,000th "Shirtless Ramsay's 20 Good Men" joke.

Anyways, the biggest problem I had overall with the season was one of pacing. A slow pace is understandable in this kind of show, but that wasn't the problem this time. What we got in most storylines was muddled and as a result the seasonal arcs didn't have the appropriate kick to them. King's Landing felt very much a part of the show in the first half, and then just fell off to being Cersei in the second half. This was redeemed in part by Cersei's material being strong for the most part. The Walk, in fact, was much better than I was expecting from the show. But overall King's Landing's other characters (except for the High Sparrow) just faded away. Much of that is intentional and as a direct result of the books, but that doesn't make it sit right in show form.

Then you get the plots in Winterfell, where two additional main characters are diverted there and neither they nor its other character of note, Theon, gets nearly enough time to develop what's happening. It didn't do any of the truly terrible things that certain book readers have conditioned us to believe might happen, like Sansa stabbing Walda, but it still earns a weak grade.

Dany was actually surprisingly.. tolerable despite having to deal with her worst book material, but I can't say that I look forward to Tyrion's show (and book?) arc ending with him bringing order to Slaver's Bay, The End.

Again, no excuses for Dorne. Bad scenes, some truly bad lines, squandering of potential with actors, especially Alexander Siddig. I'm guessing Myrcella will die sooner rather than later in the books, so I won't complain about that so much but the arc for Jaime is still, at best, dull.

Jon had his best season since Season 1, even if we are saddled with this major unresolved cliffhanger. It's surprising to me that despite all the minor grievances I have with The Wall's S5 storyline, it's still probably the one they actually "pulled off."

Minus points for no Ser Pounce or Varys and his crossbows of fury.
 
So all the Kevan and Balon presence rumors for episode 10 were bullshit based on.. nothing ?

The Benjen part in the previously on part was also some cheap shit lmao

I'm a bit excited about Varys in Meereen though, could be interesting (could be)
 

Brakke

Banned
The North is still colder than the South, there's absolutely no reason to doubt this.

Yeah. It's tricky though. Braavos is basically level with White Harbor. White Harbor is the only cold water port in the North, right? And it's notably deep. There may be bays south of White Harbor that do freeze over.

Plus Westeros is only split from Essos in the first place because magic. Plus this is the first time in a zillion years that the white walkers come with winter. Might be a magic winter.

It's all poorly defined.

So all the Kevan and Balon presence rumors for episode 10 were bullshit based on.. nothing ?

The Benjen part in the previously on part was also some cheap shit lmao

Kevan was on screen when Cersei made it to the Red Keep.
 

LordCanti

Member
Freeze over? No, but storms can be pretty brutal in winter. I believe there's a chance the dothraki/mongol parallel theory is right and grrm will mirror the first attempted mongol invasion of Japan, where their ships were all destroyed by storms so it was over before they even got there.

Unless Dany takes a truly bizarre route to Westeros (if she comes at all, GRRM plz), she's waaaaay south. I can't imagine her running into any winter related shenanigans on the trip.
 

Joni

Member
Because the next book is written yet. That is why they have wasted so much time with irrelevant side plots like Dorne, Stannis and presumably the iron isles next season.

If George didn't try to make those bits interesting or relevant, you can't blame the showrunners.

Meanwhile Jon staying dead? Come on.

They cut all the fighting and the dead kingsguard from the Dorne plot, and replaced it with titties, that shitty spear scene and just poisoning Myrcella. And they made Trystane basically pointless.
 
i'm thinking season 6 is probably going to start at the exact moment season 5 ended, Carnivale/Rome style

none of the customary buildup and re-establishment of what all the characters are doing, it'll just hit the ground running

too many ridiculous cliffhangers for this not to happen
 

Werd

Member
So all the Kevan and Balon presence rumors for episode 10 were bullshit based on.. nothing ?
If you mean the Kevan "leaked" death photo, that was debunked within a few hours. Source photo was from his one notable scene this season, altered with a different background, crossbow bolts, etc.

Yara had multiple rumors with her casting agency or such and she certainly didn't show up.
 
They cut all the fighting and the dead kingsguard from the Dorne plot, and replaced it with titties, that shitty spear scene and just poisoning Myrcella. And they made Trystane basically pointless.

Yep, it was much improved.

Seriously, it was a really long and shitty section of the books and they did well with what they had to work with.
 

Brakke

Banned
So why did Sansa light that candle? She never did know who might answer it, or how, or why. After she got tortured and out flanked by Ramsay, why did she even think it would bring help? Might it have been s trap?

Here's why she lit it: she's a useless twit.
 
A lot of 'may be dead.'

:/

The best part was Cersi's walk. Man I felt horrible for her for like the first time.

I thought she was not gonna do it naked, kind of disappointed. But then they delivered.
Expecting some backlash on it though, it has slut shaming vibes (no shit)

So why did Sansa light that candle? She never did know who might answer it, or how, or why. After she got tortured and out flanked by Ramsay, why did she even think it would bring help? Might it have been s trap?

Here's why she lit it: she's a useless twit.

image.php
 

A_Gorilla

Banned
A lot of 'may be dead.'

:/

The best part was Cersi's walk. Man I felt horrible for her for like the first time.

You have to give Lena credit: it takes a good actress to make you sympathize with someone like Cersei Lannister.

I thought she was not gonna do it naked, kind of disappointed. But then they delivered.
Expecting some backlash on it though, it has slut shaming vibes (no shit)

Considering its a Medieval society following a puritanical religion, isn't that the point?
 
Stannis & Brienne road trip in season six. After reforming Jamie, she'll take on the bigger challenge of Stannis. After that, it'll be Ramsey in season 7.

She's a damn paladin.
I really want to see a Ramsey redemption arc would look like now. Double amputee?
 
Considering its a Medieval society following a puritanical religion, isn't that the point?
Sure, but it wouldn't be the first time the mainstream press misses the point would it ?

So is Stannis 100% dead? Why would they cut away for such an important death?
Of course. Please don't start some #stannisisalive bullshit for a whole year :/
She probably beheaded him considering how she swung her sword, so it would have been unnecessary graphic.
Surprised Stannis didn't give a "I regret everything" final speech.
 

devilhawk

Member
Jaime leaving Cersei doesn't mean anything. There's no book plot for him to "return" to. The situations are too different even if the motivations can be similar. They'll just make up new adventures for him like they did this season. In the end, his ultimate fate might be the same as whatever it is in the books, but that doesn't mean the journey will be similar anymore.

Sansa.... errr... who cares I guess. Lol. :(
I can see them contrive a Jaime to Casterly Rock against the Ironborn thing. He has no point in Kings Landing or the Riverlands now.
 

eot

Banned
No Warging eh? Did not expect that

The lighting the candle right as Brienne looked away was lame as fuck though. She's done nothing but stare at that window for months, come on.
 

LordCanti

Member
Of course. Please don't start some #stannisisalive bullshit for a whole year :/

It wouldn't take a year. As soon as we have set photos or a picture of an actor in the general vicinity of a set, etc, we'll know who lives and who dies.

We should probably let this avatar bet run its course before going in for another though.

I can see them contrive a Jaime to Casterly Rock against the Ironborn thing. He has no point in Kings Landing or the Riverlands now.

This is how I think it will go down:

"Ser Jaime, the imp has been spotted in Meereen!"

*quick cut*

"Bronn, we're going to Meereen!"

Or Cersei hears about the Imp and sends Jaime to take care of it "If you love me you'll kill him"


Really though, those were Dornish boats with Dornish crews. Myrcella goes down. Jaime Lannister starts screaming bloody murder. The captain turns the boat around and they sail right back to Doran. Logically speaking that's what should happen. Whether or not that's what WILL happen...
 

Mxrz

Member
Well look at this way. If Stannis and Jon are both dead, then the entirety of the North next season is going to be twenty minutes of Ramsey eating sausages, and Sansa trodding through the snow. Maybe Bran laying under some roots.

On the plus side, maybe then they could afford to make Dorne not suck.

Yeah that was cliché as shit, so fucking ridiculous
It was too predictable. A lot of things have felt that way this season. The only real surprise this season, has been . . . Bronn not dying? Everything else has been telegraphed as hell.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Yep, it was much improved.

Seriously, it was a really long and shitty section of the books and they did well with what they had to work with.

I'd rather read 1000 pages of Dany thinking about Daario than watch this season's Dorne plot again. It was unforgivable cringe-inducing garbage. Made doubly worse by the poor utilization of Siddig.

I wish they've cut Dorne and done Jaime's Riverlands storyline instead.
 
Jonny Boy getting knifed just after The Red witch returns?
She gonna relight his fire for sure.

I hope Stannis is dead, his arc is over. He's lost it all. Family, War and the respect of his men. He got nothing.
 
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