Steelyuhas
Member
I wonder how much that is intended to be taken literally, or if Ellaria is providing as much hyperbole as she thinks necessary to try to stir Doran to take action...cause I'm thinking that makes more sense.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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I wonder how much that is intended to be taken literally, or if Ellaria is providing as much hyperbole as she thinks necessary to try to stir Doran to take action...cause I'm thinking that makes more sense.
I bloody well hope so. But the fact that it makes sense means that it's probably not the case.
Atraveller
Banned
And honorably stupid, like Eddard.
Unsullied thread is talking about "Syrio = Jaqen" theory, maybe the show will make it true.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yep. I'm on board with this.
I just think there really are boundaries this show won't cross, and sexual violence (actual, not tearing her dress like in S2) against one of the Stark daughters is one of them.
Plus, from a writer's perspective isn't rape on the wedding night kind of limiting? If I was writing the show I'd want to really get creative in showcasing Sansa's newfound resolve and maturity while not losing any of Ramsay's hair trigger psychoticness.
I believe Shireen's role in the story has more to do with her greyscale than being any sort of possible sacrifice for Melisandre. ADWD really emphasizes the condition, both with how it's viewed by Val and the Wildlings, and the stone men during Tyrion's voyage east. Perhaps the White Walkers can control those afflicted with greyscale, much like how they control the dead. Would explain why Wildlings fear it so much and kill anyone who is infected. Ever since Shireen was cast, I figured she had some important role to play down the line that we just haven't read about yet. She's a character that could've been easily cut completely from the show, or at least not sail north with Stannis, but obviously D&D kept her in for a reason.
There was also some talk of how Craster dealt with his greyscale daughters that piqued Sam's interest in this episode, and it sounded like Craster offered them up to the White Walkers just like he did with male babies.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Shireen will be the queen of the dead and the true ruler westeros deserves
Ganzlinger
Member
But Patchface will betray her and bring doom to Westeros
Geez, what's wrong with you all it's clearly Tryaegon.
The main issue with that is that we know from Charlotte Hope's resume that she's in at least one of episodes 9-10, and Alfie says this happens in about the middle of the season.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Something that can start in Ep. 6 that finishes in Ep 9/10
This sounds plausible and absolutely boring. Warm her up Reek would have a much bigger impact
How would an actor know which episode their scene ends up in?
Steelyuhas
Member
It makes sense that she's speaking literally instead of hyperbole?
The scripts they're working off and the directors they're working with. CVs routinely list the directors and are accurate.
Having bigger impact is not a desirable goal in and of itself if it involves things like rewriting Sansa's arc to make her a rape victim.
I agree. I wouldn't like to see it happen from the perspective that I also didn't enjoy the Red Wedding for the first time but from a storytelling perspective, I would be impressed. That is something that would have similar reactions to the red wedding. Everyone would be talking about the next day. People really would see Ramsay as more of a villain than Joffrey. I miss the hatred everyone had for Joffrey.
I can ignore all sorts of changes on the show, and I can be sympathetic as to why they had to do many of them. But having Littlefinger hand over Sansa to the Boltons will be the most idiotic thing the show ever did. Just thinking about the logic of it makes me fume with anger.
Sansa isn't just a device to make people hate Ramsay. She's one of the main characters.
They've thrown away logic before for shock factor, like Robb bringing his pregnant wife to the Red Wedding, so it's not something they are above
Its consistent with Ramsay's character, and if they are putting Sansa in this situation it's an obvious inevitability
No, it's not "inevitable", as in something they could not avoid writing. They've rewritten many such plots. If they rewrite Sansa's plot to include rape, it's because they wanted to.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
oh my lord
Actually it kinda is, barring some unforeseen circumstance Ramsay has to consummate the marriage and she's not going to go into that willingly I would imagine. Roose Bolton isn't going to want that hanging in the air ala Tywin/Tyrion. We know how vile a creature Ramsay is compared to Tyrion as well. The only way they write themselves out of this corner is if the escape/Siege occurs immediately after the marriage.
Gonna pull a reverse Lysa, have Sansa marry Ramsay and kill him. Controversial scene is when she decides to enjoy it.
No, your hyperbole suggestion makes complete sense, which means that it's the opposite that's happening in the show...
I don't see why Sansa needs to marry Ramsay. She doesn't need him to claim the north. Why would Littlefinger orchestrate a RW 2.0 that involves Sansa being tortured and raped when he's grooming her to be queen? How would they even pull that off with so few men? How is Littlefinger even in a place to marry off or verify a fake Arya without the Kings permission as she is supposed to be a hostage?
The consensus is that he's not marrying her off as fake anyone, but as Sansa Stark, do she can take them down from within.
Which still makes no sense.
I don't see any other notable "still alive in the books" deaths beyond the heavily rumored ones. They certainly aren't going to kill off Stannis, Roose, or Ramsay this year unless it's an off screen report that may or may not be true. I also hate the mere notion of Brienne killing Stannis. There's no way she's going to get anywhere near him.
Oh...
Well it's good he's throwing her into Ramsays clutches without warning or form of protection. I'm sure she's more than equipped to deal with him. Ramsay agreeing to marry Tyrions wife who is currently wanted by the people giving him power is pretty mind boggling but there may be a clever explanation for that.
That's when the show will reveal that Sansa is a deadly ninja
RobotChant
Member
But Stannis is already said to be dead in ADWD, so maybe they don't see it as spoiler.
Moff
Member
isn't the plan obvious?
if he will really marry sansa to ramsey, he wants stannis to kill him after the wedding and sansa would become the ruler of the north.
then littlefinger would marry her himself and would be one of the, if not the the most powerful man of westeros and a huge step closer to being king.
Basileus777
Member
I think there is a good chance Ramsay dies, I would not put him in the safe category. And they are pushing the Brienne/Stannis angle hard, there certainly is a likelihood she encounters him.
Many would claim Sansa as the ruler of the north without the marriage. The marriage only helps the Boltons. The only advantage to having her marry Ramsay would be as a plan B if Stannis is defeated. Then Sansa could Littlefinger them from the inside, or serve as a reason for the North to rebel against the Boltons. Still, I would wait for Stannis to attack, see the outcome, and then decide what Sansa's best role would be if I was Littlefinger.
His plan hinges on Stannis and his minuscule army defeating the Bolton and Northern houses. And given Ramsays reputation, Sansa would be lucky to be alive at that point. That is to say, she would choose immediate death before bearing a son and then death.
Moff
Member
well stannis just wanted to make jon lord of winterfell, littlefingers plan would be done for good if that happened. I don't agree the marriage only helps the boltons.
what if ramsey is wedding someone else? what if the boltons insited on the wedding sooner? sure, many would support sansa, but many wouldnt. I don't think littlefinger wants do deal with that kind of civil war in the north.
Basileus777
Member
Well it's not clear that Stannis' army is miniscule in the show. He did just hire a bunch of mercenaries too.
I've read that the directing and writing credits aren't accurate at all, they just approximate. Do they really fly the directing staff between three or four different locales for each episode? And have all of those actors and production staff just sitting around until they get back?
bengraven
Member
It could work. Once Sansa marries Ramsey, the Northern houses essentially rebel against the Boltons. Stannis arrives to finish them off and gets killed by Brienne in the process.
Woody Invincible
Banned
Stop it. This hurts to read.
I really think this plot would make so much more sense with Alayne instead of Sansa. You lose the Boltons-marrying-for-Stark-name angle, but no one really cares about that, and reframing it as a North-Vale alliance between Roose and Baelish would be a plausible enough motivation. And then Alayne would have so much more freedom to act in Winterfell without suspicion. Why would the Boltons ever let the real Sansa out of their sight? They have to know their subjects want her instead of them.
I was pretty ok with RamSan at first because I thought this was where they were going with it, and naybe I'll be ok with it once we get past the initial flimsy motives and are able to just accept it as fact and watch the future scenes for what they are, but man they picked the weirdest, least plausible way of making this happen.
I'm just glad D&D didn't do my off-season theory of a Grey Worm-Shavepate merger. Saved me from having to coin Grey Wormo Kendaq.
Moff
Member
thats not true at all, that is saying dany could just walk to the iron throne and sit down and be done with it
GordonHalfman
Member
How could they announce Sansa openly though? I don't think the show can just gloss over the Sansa being wanted for regicide thing. It maybe won't seem so incongruous from a show only perspective, but I'm sure Sansa has made several references to being frightened of the queen finding her.
She could if it was the Martells and Tyrells in power in Kings Landing.
Ah, forgot about that. It still seems like the kind of gamble Littlefinger wouldn't take. He would watch and wait imo.
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