-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
- Start date
- Status
Peacefully? Probably not.
But I feel like there are more people willing to restore a Stark as Lord/Queen of the North than defend the Bolton's arguable claim.
Marrying Sansa strengthens their claim. It does not strengthen hers.
bengraven
Member
This is my issue as well. FArya was sponsored by the throne. Sansa is open war against it. When KL find out about Sansa, there will be war.
IF Stannis kills Ramsay it won't be an issue because he can be like "here, I have the redhead..." and Jon is like "oh I like redheads, wait, what do you mean I'm not Ned's kid..." and Stannis goes "Come and claim her" and Jon is like "erm, since I'm technically not alive, can I marry my thought to be former half sister"
And then my theory of JonSa is confirmed.
Otherwise Bolton better get some fucking support from somewhere else or he's screwed. The North Remembers.
To be frank... this is the same Littlefinger that openly threatened Cersei to her face in Season 2. Not as smart as he should be/thinks he is.
GordonHalfman
Member
I suppose it might work if Petyr can convince Roose that his son could be King in the North, (now that Tywin is dead and so on). Perhaps first announcing the marriage with "Alayne" but with a promise to reveal her later when the time is right for open rebellion. This might not be so different from the Bolton's actual plans in the book if Lady Dustin is to be believed. (Although Roose in the books has a weird attitude to Ramsay, he basically thinks he's a dumbass and a psycho who murdered his brother but plans to inherit him anyway.)
Plus what does Littlefinger get out of it for giving up the most powerful piece he has to play?
The alliegence of the Boltons, who by that point will have betrayed their last two patrons within the space of about a year.
Plus Stannis is going to come down on Winterfell like a hammer soon anyway.
Plus he's giving Cat's daughter to the most evil fucker in
Westeros.
If they really do go for this it makes so little sense.
Moff
Member
I think it does strengthen her claim, yes.
because right now, the boltons are the legitimate rulers of the north. the king legitimated them. of course many people in the north disagree, the north remembers, it is known. however the king has the boltons backs. the north cant just make sansa the warden of the north.
but if she married ramsey and he and his father get killed, she is legitimate by any means AND has the norths backing. she would be legitimately accepted by everyone.
well apart from the small issue of regicide, but there is no way around that if she is ever to be used by littlefinger in any way.
The Lannisters aren't at the height of their power and aren't exactly in a position to attack the North at this point.
With the North, Sansa/Littlefinger would probably control:
- The North (sans the Boltons)
- Riverrun
- The Vale (which can raise a fresh army)
- Harrenhal
That scene bothers me so much. It made no sense. Cersei would have had him killed on the spot.
The Freys control Riverrun and Harrenhal is an abandoned ruin, as is Winterfell for that matter. Littlefinger and Sansa definitely do not control the Vale or it's power either. At the end of the day, Sansa can't remarry as Sansa as long as Tyrion is alive unless the King allows it. That is not happening.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Isn't the rule that if it's never consummated, the marriage isn't official?
It makes so little sense because we haven't watched the show, where they'll set this up and explain it. As the rightful king would say, there's no sense in trying to analyse a piece of a leak to understand a future episode when you should be watching an episode to analyse what happened in it.
I'd guess the point for Littlefinger of marrying Sansa to the Boltons is to get her to Winterfell and in power. She's useless to him as a bastard daughter, she's useful to him as a ruler in Winterfell.
He can't watch and wait forever, everything will be wrapped up in 2 years.
Basileus777
Member
This seems like book logic to me. The show at least suggests they do control the Vale. And we don't know the rules for annulling marriage in the HBOverse. Or what the hell happened to Riverrun.
Ganzlinger
Member
I believe it is official. In the books, Tywin urges Tyrion to consumate the marriage.
Hmm, you're right. Though I think such a thing would need to be confirmed by both parties and even then it would have to be annulled by a septon.
Yeah, the show is pretty vague. I assumed Littlefinger acted as guardian for Robin but he would hardly be in control of the Lords and armies.
Well, just enough to see how the Battle of Winterfell plays out.He can't watch and wait forever, everything will be wrapped up in 2 years.
Ganzlinger
Member
If Stannis kills Ramsay I can't see him forgiving Littlefinger for delievering Sansa to the Boltons in the first place. Stannis would legitimate Sansa but Littlefinger wouldn't get away if he is still a man of "justice".
Steelyuhas
Member
Oh lol, I see
Exterminieren
Banned
Bronze Yohn was definitely committing himself to protecting Sansa last season. Should Sansa require help, it's been set up that the Vale would be providing it.
Moff
Member
I'd bet a lot that this is what will happen, I mean we all know stannis will take winterfell, right?
but I'm sure sansa would have a word in that and she will speak for littlefinger.
Wow, that actually looks damn plausible
my take on that speculation (not actual spoilers, but just in case):- Sansa killing Ramsay does make a a lot of damn sense and would be wholly in tune with her character evolution towards Darth Sansa even if she has to endure yet another horrible humilliation. I support this
- Jon deciding to heed the call of duty and fight in Hardhome as opposed to help his actual sister would be a great way of building up drama and make the future Jon's betrayal a far more sad event than in the book. Good stuff
- I just don't see why would Brienne kill Stannis. She doesn't know that it was him the one that killed Renly, only we, as spectators, know it. And why would he confess such a thing? This is the weakest link of that theory, me thinks
- Yep, poor Shireen is going to be so, so sacrifized in order to resurrect Azor Azai T_T that is definitely happening sooner or latter, and it will be sad as fuck. I adore her TV version, she has all the charm and cuteness that her parents lack. It will be hard to watch
- Melissandre sacrifizing Shireen in order to resurrect Stannis, only to end up reviving Jon would be some a trolling of cosmic, Greek mythology proportions. I approve
- That being said, the show should really empasize Azor Azahi's revived title and his entire ordeal (resurrection, Nissa Nissa's sacrifice, etc). Show watchers have been too little exposed to that prophecy, and it is going to be crucial in the end game, me thinks
- Jon deciding to heed the call of duty and fight in Hardhome as opposed to help his actual sister would be a great way of building up drama and make the future Jon's betrayal a far more sad event than in the book. Good stuff
- I just don't see why would Brienne kill Stannis. She doesn't know that it was him the one that killed Renly, only we, as spectators, know it. And why would he confess such a thing? This is the weakest link of that theory, me thinks
- Yep, poor Shireen is going to be so, so sacrifized in order to resurrect Azor Azai T_T that is definitely happening sooner or latter, and it will be sad as fuck. I adore her TV version, she has all the charm and cuteness that her parents lack. It will be hard to watch
- Melissandre sacrifizing Shireen in order to resurrect Stannis, only to end up reviving Jon would be some a trolling of cosmic, Greek mythology proportions. I approve
- That being said, the show should really empasize Azor Azahi's revived title and his entire ordeal (resurrection, Nissa Nissa's sacrifice, etc). Show watchers have been too little exposed to that prophecy, and it is going to be crucial in the end game, me thinks
When I said "fuck up" I didn't mean it to be an accidental mistake. It was wholly intentional, for it was in the script and it was totally meant to be a rape scene. It wasn't a problem on the execution or that it "looked like a rape but it quite wasnt'", there's no point in blaming the director nor the actors, they just did what they were ordered to. That scene utterly destroyed Jaime's character for the shake of trowing cheap, shitty shock value. One of the lowest lows of the adaptation by far.
She saw Stannis' face in the shadow. She even made Cat promise she wouldn't get in the way of her revenge against him, back when she pledged herself to her.
Exterminieren
Banned
The show made a point last week of Brienne seeing "a shadow with the face of Stannis Baratheon" when Renly died. She's following Sansa to Winterfell, where Stannis is going to be heading before too long. I'd be outright shocked if Brienne wasn't going to try and kill him, whether the speculation is true or not.
She's apparently going to willingly marry him. And even if that weren't the case, the writers do not have to have the marriage immediately -- Margaery and Joffrey's engagement lasted over a season. If they rush the wedding, again, it's because they want to.
But the regicide is not a small issue.
There is no way that the Lannisters would not see that as a betrayal, thus the Bolton's would lack the backing of King's Landing. Not only that, it would expose Littlefinger as being apart of the plan to kill Joffrey, threatening his control of the Vale and Harrenhal.
Not only that, why not go straight to Stannis and have him recognize her as the Warden of the North, her rightful title?
It's so ludicrous.
A lot of people already making assertive gripes at the showrunners over rumors and out of context speculation without knowing the specifics of things or how it plays out (unless they are making informed gripes because they watched the leaks...). I'd say at least wait until the show actually reveals what is going on before judging and complaining, but that seems a big ask for many.
Stannis doesn't hold Winterfell, the Boltons do. And the Boltons are more concerned with keeping their hold of the North than what the south might do, specially after Tywin's death.
Do show-watchers even remember he's a targ? I don't see it happening.
And are people seriously entertaining the thought of Sansa marrying Ramsay?
Nah, it was so sad how he died before he could meet her it would be a shame to lose that.
It's heavily implied with what we've seen in trailers and dialog in the second episode. We know Sansa and Littlefinger are
going to end up at Winterfell as there are shots of them there. We know Littlefinger tells her, "There's no justice in this world, not unless we make it. Avenge them." Putting that and Winterfell together logically follows as a plot to get revenge against the Boltons. We know Littlefinger talks about a marriage proposal being accepted in the last episode. We know a book plot is Ramsay marrying a fake Stark. We also know Littlefinger in the books has a long plan to reinstall Sansa at Winterfell. It's not a giant leap to think that the show is just accelerating this plot and condensing it with the fake Arya wedding. We know there is supposed to be a "traumatic" Sansa scene, and Ramsay's actor had a hard time with some of his material this season.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I just want one time, one time for the Starks to get some kind of justice (besides Arya knocking off people one by one.) I always wanted to see if the North still has any loyalty to the Stark name. Just once. And I wanted to believe that Little Finger would not put Sansa in a bad situation, because he comes off as her protector. Of course its for his benefit, but still.............
Do you want me to begin preparing you a big feast of crow now, or would you rather do it yourself once the truth is out?
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
This makes me sad.
No way. Aemon a smart-ass motherfucker. He meets Dany he sees immediately what a dumbo she is, then he dies miserable and hopeless for the prospects of the world.
Dusk Soldier
Member
I think you have to keep in mind that littlefinger has the same basic plan in the books. He just marrying her to a different person.
Also, Cersei has no power in the North. And since Robb was going to kill Joffrey anyway, there's nothing compelling any of the Northen Lords to hand her over to the crown.
And lastly, Margery is Queen now. She knows that Sansa didn't do it, and won't push to have her executed.
I don't understand what's wrong with the idea of Sansa going to Winterfell, isn't that where she's headed in the books anyway? Who cares who marries Ramsay, he probably won't survive the Battle of Winterfell on the show (or the books) and Sansa will be able to marry some heir to the Vale, just as Littlefinger planned in AFFC. Cutting out Jeyne Poole is pretty straightforward reductionism for TV.
The foreshadowing last episode with Brienne telling LF about the shadow "with the face of Stannis" seems to indicate there will be some kind of conflict with them this season tbh. But I kind of doubt it will end with Stannis being killed.... maybe it's Brienne who dies instead.
hipsterpants
Member
Is S2 considered the worst season? I watched episode 1 and it was pretty weak. I know it happens in the books but actually watching the guards running around murdering children felt like it entered 2edgy4me territory. Did Robert actually keep all of his bastards in King's Landing? I'm guessing so but it has been a year since I finished the books.
Book readers love to shit on the recent seasons but they forget how drab and boring S2 was. I think it's by far the worst season. I only really enjoyed Arya's plotline (which I also find to be her strongest season so far strangely)
Yeah 2 is the worst. But it has the best episode (Blackwater)
bengraven
Member
I'm sure it has, but don't remember: was this posted yet? Renly and Vissy watching the first four seasons?
Edit: you bastards, Season 2 was the fall of Winterfell, Tyrion vs. Joffrey vs. Cersei, Blackwater, Fist of the First Men...
Edit: you bastards, Season 2 was the fall of Winterfell, Tyrion vs. Joffrey vs. Cersei, Blackwater, Fist of the First Men...
The best episode of the series followed by the worst episode of the series. In terms of what could have been vs what was. The House of the Undying had to be the biggest misstep of a major scene.
Basileus777
Member
I could buy an argument for either season 2 or 3 being the weakest.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Season two is definitely the worst season.
bengraven
Member
You know, I almost can agree with you on 3, outside of the obvious.
Like the fact that it takes all season for Ygritte and Jon to walk across to Mance's camp.
The changes the show has already made make the Vale plot from TWOW impossible. In any event, there's nothing to indicate Sansa will be going to Winterfell anytime soon; her plot is intrigue in the Vale and her interactions with Littlefinger. Moreover, the single-biggest problem with Sansa going to Winterfell is if it involves being brutally raped by him, as the interviews seem to suggest.
Moff
Member
because he doesnt know who will win, by installing her before he takes a risk, but is able to play both sides. we'll see how exactly it plays out, it's perfectly possible it will be dumb or completely reasonable.
if he goes directly to stannis and he loses he can be sure to be killed by the boltons instantly.
and season 2 is far better than season 3, it had harrenhal, jaqen, the shadow baby, theon, tyrion as hand and blackwater.
I think season 3 suffered a lot from the book splitting, nothing really happened up until the red wedding. season 4 was brilliant though.
- Status