Moff
Member
some would say GRRM lost himself in the scale and sweep of the books.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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some would say GRRM lost himself in the scale and sweep of the books.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I am glad they cut material. The stuff in the books would have just made the TV show awful.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't say it like this, but I have noticed a big disconnect between my opinion and the general consensus in this thread, recently. Most of the changes seem really smart. Put interesting characters in a room together and hey: audience investment... drama! If we're just going to converge at point B anyway, we might as well discard most of the saggy bits from Feast and Dance.
I disagree. It's all great stuff aside from Dany and Tyrion's extremely long arcs.
Basileus777
Member
I'd call that pretty unlikely. I doubt we ever see Harry the Heir.
Whether or not we get spoilers for TWOW probably depends on how one defines a spoiler. I certainly don't agree with the idea that they are just treading water before they can adapt everything faithfully. The things they cut are likely gone for good.
Moff
Member
I do actually think that all of these book changes in seaon 5 might spoil TWOW. maybe not directly but they might hint at future events. like littlefinger using sansa to get the north. by making everything simpler, it's also easier to guess what will happen in the future books.
if I would want to make sure to not be spoiled, I would probably not watch season 5.
if I would want to make sure to not be spoiled, I would probably not watch season 5.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Jon, Dany and Tyrion form the biggest parts of the last book. Dany and Tyrion have extremely long, boring arcs that have no place on a TV show. Jon's arc is fine for the TV show with a lot of material to cover there this season.
He shouldn't have fired his editor after the first 3 books. I feel like he's laid down so many red herrings that have no real chance of being fully explained or fleshed out. It's why the showrunners have made it concise, cut out things deemed uncessaey) unnecessary overall. I sort of regret reading the books now, because I notice the changes, but I love what the show is doing.
If you think about it, he's probably crying himself, because he has to compete with the show. All these people he's trying to explain, but they're cut from the show or not even shown for long periods.
Monocle
Member
Well he did set out to write an unfilmable series after getting fed up with the restrictions of TV, didn't he? Guess he succeeded.
Haven't read any Wow chapters to judge, but I don't see the show going in it's own direction with Sansa here on out. They just really wanted the Jeyne storyline and give Sophie something to do. That storyline doesn't go much further though... maybe she can visit Jon at the wall as that Karstark girl. lol. Then she can be Stannis' Val.
Basileus777
Member
I think that's exactly what they are doing, taking Sansa's story in its own direction. They'll probably skip the Vale storyline and go right to Sansa's future plotline after the Boltons are done with. The show runners have been very deliberate with directing all of their characters into 5 or so locations, they aren't going to spread things out against after this season. Arya is pretty much the only character on her own and I wonder how long that will last.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Here it is, in all its glory!
Magnficent. Such grace
Hmmm... Well, I'll be happy as long as shes on track to her DoS storyline. But at this point they may throw that all out for some characters. Certain endings may not work well on the show.
This was a pretty good followup to last week's episode. The show is certainly happy doing its own thing now, which honestly is fine. Since the first season I've never enjoyed the show as a faithful adaptation of the books, so I'm all for it being something different, less complex, and just more "entertaining" so to speak.
I really liked the scenes with Arya, and the Sparrows stuff at the capital. I think they really nailed how the House of Black and White looks in particular. I wonder when we'll get to see Jaime again though. I really want to see how his Adventures in Dorne pan out. Darth Sansa is looking better and better too. The North remembers!!!!
I really liked the scenes with Arya, and the Sparrows stuff at the capital. I think they really nailed how the House of Black and White looks in particular. I wonder when we'll get to see Jaime again though. I really want to see how his Adventures in Dorne pan out. Darth Sansa is looking better and better too. The North remembers!!!!
Here it is, in all its glory!
What a badass. If Stannis isn't the last man standing in this series I will be sad.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I'm not seeing any indication they'll actually break her down.
You can be a strong character and still get abused, and come out of it just as resolute. Once Sansa has finally been abused one last time, she'll understand that there is nothing more that her enemies can do to her - she'll be unstoppable.
I guess she wasn't quite abused enough. Nothing a bit of rape can't fix.
- Cersei Lannister
After this last episode I am a convert: Long live the show's adaptation, screw purism.
90% of the changes introduced in the last episode have been for the better:
- Great character building in Margaery's banter with Cersei. Witty, comedic, and wholly in character, it is a great way for putting in the front of the viewer's eyes the hate of Cersei towards the newcoming Queen.
- Yes, of course Tommen does have sex with Margaery, he's aged up in the show and the whole "underaged" controversy is irrelevant to his character and the world he inhabit, plus it would make a ton of sense for Margaery to manipulate him trought sex. Controversial, this is not.
- Great introduction to the Great Sparrow plot, and great casting decision too. The show has actually nuanced a character for once, showing both sides of The Faith coin (religious fanatics that also do help the poor in a meaningful, honest way)
- Brienne trying to rescue Sansa gives her plot an actual purpouse, makes her relevant to the story, and further developes her character, desperately in need of a great cause to defend
- Sansa replacing Jeyne puts higher stakes in the North subplot, makes her a constant presence during the season, makes Jon's decision about abbanoning his sister more dramatic, goes in line with her character development towards a cold-blooded manipulator able to withstand abuse in order to get her revenge, creates a great set up for a frey (or bolton) pie. Noone ever cared about Jeyne Poole, show watchers certainly won't
- Jon's plot has been speeded up, but it does work anyways. Why would you guys drag an already slow-burn character arc?
- Brienne's course of action against Stannis is the weakest link so far, it seems kinda forced to me. But her replacing the spearwive's role helps to tie in the meandering plots
People asking for the introduction of a ton of characters noone gives a shit about as a way to make the plot advance by bloating it as GRRM did in the book, Brienne's pointless road trip, Ironboring mary-sueing their way out of their shit stratgic blunders and Sansa disappearing for one entire season are simply out of their frigging minds. Hail to better version of the second parts of ASOIAF, I say
90% of the changes introduced in the last episode have been for the better:
- Great character building in Margaery's banter with Cersei. Witty, comedic, and wholly in character, it is a great way for putting in the front of the viewer's eyes the hate of Cersei towards the newcoming Queen.
- Yes, of course Tommen does have sex with Margaery, he's aged up in the show and the whole "underaged" controversy is irrelevant to his character and the world he inhabit, plus it would make a ton of sense for Margaery to manipulate him trought sex. Controversial, this is not.
- Great introduction to the Great Sparrow plot, and great casting decision too. The show has actually nuanced a character for once, showing both sides of The Faith coin (religious fanatics that also do help the poor in a meaningful, honest way)
- Brienne trying to rescue Sansa gives her plot an actual purpouse, makes her relevant to the story, and further developes her character, desperately in need of a great cause to defend
- Sansa replacing Jeyne puts higher stakes in the North subplot, makes her a constant presence during the season, makes Jon's decision about abbanoning his sister more dramatic, goes in line with her character development towards a cold-blooded manipulator able to withstand abuse in order to get her revenge, creates a great set up for a frey (or bolton) pie. Noone ever cared about Jeyne Poole, show watchers certainly won't
- Jon's plot has been speeded up, but it does work anyways. Why would you guys drag an already slow-burn character arc?
- Brienne's course of action against Stannis is the weakest link so far, it seems kinda forced to me. But her replacing the spearwive's role helps to tie in the meandering plots
People asking for the introduction of a ton of characters noone gives a shit about as a way to make the plot advance by bloating it as GRRM did in the book, Brienne's pointless road trip, Ironboring mary-sueing their way out of their shit stratgic blunders and Sansa disappearing for one entire season are simply out of their frigging minds. Hail to better version of the second parts of ASOIAF, I say
Exterminieren
Banned
I don't know exactly where they're going with it, but Sansa working to manipulate Ramsey while Stannis and Brienne are bearing down on her certainly could make for some damned fine TV- even more so given that we don't know exactly where it's going for the first time on the show.
I can definitely see a three way conflict going on. Stannis will want to assault Winterfell and kill the Boltons to "rescue" Sansa. Brienne will want to infiltrate the wedding to find a way to "rescue" Sansa from her fate. While Sansa herself probably has some devious plan along with Littlefinger and the Northerners, and don't want outsiders interfering. Could be really cool!
Sir Garbageman
Member
After this last episode I am a convert: Long live the show's adaptation, screw purism.
90% of the changes introduced in the last episode have been for the better:
- Great character building in Margaery's banter with Cersei. Witty, comedic, and wholly in character, it is a great way for putting in the front of the viewer's eyes the hate of Cersei towards the newcoming Queen.
- Yes, of course Tommen does have sex with Margaery, he's aged up in the show and the whole "underaged" controversy is irrelevant to his character and the world he inhabit, plus it would make a ton of sense for Margaery to manipulate him trought sex. Controversial, this is not.
- Great introduction to the Great Sparrow plot, and great casting decision too. The show has actually nuanced a character for once, showing both sides of The Faith coin (religious fanatics that also do help the poor in a meaningful, honest way)
- Brienne trying to rescue Sansa gives her plot an actual purpouse, makes her relevant to the story, and further developes her character, desperately in need of a great cause to defend
- Sansa replacing Jeyne puts higher stakes in the North subplot, makes her a constant presence during the season, makes Jon's decision about abbanoning his sister more dramatic, goes in line with her character development towards a cold-blooded manipulator able to withstand abuse in order to get her revenge, creates a great set up for a frey (or bolton) pie. Noone ever cared about Jeyne Poole, show watchers certainly won't
- Jon's plot has been speeded up, but it does work anyways. Why would you guys drag an already slow-burn character arc?
- Brienne's course of action against Stannis is the weakest link so far, it seems kinda forced to me. But her replacing the spearwive's role helps to tie in the meandering plots
People asking for the introduction of a ton of characters noone gives a shit about as a way to make the plot advance by bloating it as GRRM did in the book, Brienne's pointless road trip, Ironboring mary-sueing their way out of their shit stratgic blunders and Sansa disappearing for one entire season are simply out of their frigging minds. Hail to better version of the second parts of ASOIAF, I say
This is where I am at too. Well said.
Moff
Member
I'll decide at the end of the season, but I always expected to have more fun with season 5 than with AFFC/ADWD, although that doesnt necessarily means it would have to be better. much dumb und illogical stuff can happen and it would still be fun and entertaining.
After this last episode I am a convert: Long live the show's adaptation, screw purism.
90% of the changes introduced in the last episode have been for the better:
- Great character building in Margaery's banter with Cersei. Witty, comedic, and wholly in character, it is a great way for putting in the front of the viewer's eyes the hate of Cersei towards the newcoming Queen.
- Yes, of course Tommen does have sex with Margaery, he's aged up in the show and the whole "underaged" controversy is irrelevant to his character and the world he inhabit, plus it would make a ton of sense for Margaery to manipulate him trought sex. Controversial, this is not.
- Great introduction to the Great Sparrow plot, and great casting decision too. The show has actually nuanced a character for once, showing both sides of The Faith coin (religious fanatics that also do help the poor in a meaningful, honest way)
- Brienne trying to rescue Sansa gives her plot an actual purpouse, makes her relevant to the story, and further developes her character, desperately in need of a great cause to defend
- Sansa replacing Jeyne puts higher stakes in the North subplot, makes her a constant presence during the season, makes Jon's decision about abbanoning his sister more dramatic, goes in line with her character development towards a cold-blooded manipulator able to withstand abuse in order to get her revenge, creates a great set up for a frey (or bolton) pie. Noone ever cared about Jeyne Poole, show watchers certainly won't
- Jon's plot has been speeded up, but it does work anyways. Why would you guys drag an already slow-burn character arc?
- Brienne's course of action against Stannis is the weakest link so far, it seems kinda forced to me. But her replacing the spearwive's role helps to tie in the meandering plots
People asking for the introduction of a ton of characters noone gives a shit about as a way to make the plot advance by bloating it as GRRM did in the book, Brienne's pointless road trip, Ironboring mary-sueing their way out of their shit stratgic blunders and Sansa disappearing for one entire season are simply out of their frigging minds. Hail to better version of the second parts of ASOIAF, I say
- That Cersei/Margaery banter existed in the books. Nothing new.
- Tommen having sex? And Margery using it to manipulate him? Who cares? I dont think it adds anything worthwhile to drive that story forward. At the end of the day Tommen is still just a name, not a character worth a damn.
- The great sparrow scene? Terrible. Love the overdone cartoon fly buzzing sound effects to drive home the point. Like I couldn't tell it smelled like crap with Cersei covering her nose every other second.
- I can't recall what Brienne was up to so who the fuck knows maybe you're right about that.
- The Winterfell plot wasn't about Jeyne pool. It was about Theon and Mance. And that was a good enough reason to be into it. Now I can't say wether or not this move is good given that we dont know what the hell Sansa is doing in the book anymore, but why does she need to be in the show anyway? Who gives a shit? I dont think it improves the story much at all. It feels too contrived. What's stopping Littlefinger from passing any other girl off as a Stark?
- Jon's plot is where it is... Was he even in a Feast for Crows? No, so this is just picking off where it is supposed to unless I'm forgetting anything.
Again, this show is mediocre at best. Some of the worst acting on television for what's considered to be a good show. And none of these changes have improved the show in any way. I honestly couldnt care less that they're not adapting the book scene per scene... I got over that in the second season. What I know is that whatever the show is right now is something pretty lousy. Where are the iron born? Where are the wolves? Where is Osha and Rickon? Where is the Hound? Im not a fan of the Iron Born or Rickon, but just to leave these threads hanging out there is awful. Like maybe cut back on one of the 8 scenes you've devoted this season to Tyrion bitching at Varys this season and tie up some loose ends.
Good episode.
Still not quite sure about some of the big changes such as Sansa/Ramsay, but i'll wait to see how it plays out before putting it down. Cersei and her disdain for anything Margaery continues to be a lot of fun to watch. Such a wonderful burn from Margaery "I wish we had some wine for you, it's a bit early in the day for us."
Really enjoyed the Arya side of things this week, great acting from Maisie during the scene where she struggled to throw away needle. Nice to see Tyrion get to Volantis so quick compared to the books and Volantis itself looks great.
Slynt's execution felt a tad rushed but still worked for me. The Stannis nod was also pretty good. Little worried for Stannis now with how close he and Brienne seem to be getting to each other.
Still not quite sure about some of the big changes such as Sansa/Ramsay, but i'll wait to see how it plays out before putting it down. Cersei and her disdain for anything Margaery continues to be a lot of fun to watch. Such a wonderful burn from Margaery "I wish we had some wine for you, it's a bit early in the day for us."
Really enjoyed the Arya side of things this week, great acting from Maisie during the scene where she struggled to throw away needle. Nice to see Tyrion get to Volantis so quick compared to the books and Volantis itself looks great.
Slynt's execution felt a tad rushed but still worked for me. The Stannis nod was also pretty good. Little worried for Stannis now with how close he and Brienne seem to be getting to each other.
This. AFFC/ADWD is a bloated mess, for the most part. Nothing sacred about it at all. I hope D&D continue to chop away at it until it makes some sense.
higgsboson1997
Member
It's weird - this season seems to be the best paced and most well structured season so far. In comparison, books 4 and 5 were extremely bloated and were easily the two worst paced books. I now have complete faith in D&D in giving us a satisfying ending to this television epic. High Sparrow (this episode) was probably my favourite out of any of the first three episodes of any season so far.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
as an aside, I think TV Cersei is much, much more interesting than straight-up insane AFFC Cersei.
RobotChant
Member
Well considering the source material and the shows penchant for unnecessary nudity, I sure hope it's not because Sophie Turner turned 18 and is able to show her tits on film, finally. What perfect timing it all is... give Sansa a major part just after the actor becomes a legal adult. If there was anything I'd be ok with the show changing it would be those scenes.
Still don't understand why LF gave Sansa up to the Boltons. Makes little sense.
Not as written here, so it's fair to give credit where credit is due.
How do you know? The show would seem to disagree.
What are you even arguing about here?
There's no other way to say this, so I'll put it bluntly: Bullshit. What high standard of acting have you come to expect, and from where?! The rest of us must be missing out. I'd love to see performances that so easily surpass these terrible GoT actors.
As to the rest... have you considered taking a break from the show this season? It seems to make you quite angry.
All signs point to them being cut. The end of this episode would seem to be the final nail in the coffin.
Basileus777
Member
Probably not.
cj_iwakura
Member
What was supposed to be in the letter to Baelish at Winterfell?
The likes of Herrington, Clarke, Kekkili would never appear on True Detective, Mad Men, Deadwood, Breaking Bad and a host of other shows as main characters. It's a mixed bag by HBO standards. That being said there are some very good performances to balance things out, particularly by the veteran cast.
After this last episode I am a convert: Long live the show's adaptation, screw purism.
90% of the changes introduced in the last episode have been for the better:
- Great character building in Margaery's banter with Cersei. Witty, comedic, and wholly in character, it is a great way for putting in the front of the viewer's eyes the hate of Cersei towards the newcoming Queen.
- Yes, of course Tommen does have sex with Margaery, he's aged up in the show and the whole "underaged" controversy is irrelevant to his character and the world he inhabit, plus it would make a ton of sense for Margaery to manipulate him trought sex. Controversial, this is not.
- Great introduction to the Great Sparrow plot, and great casting decision too. The show has actually nuanced a character for once, showing both sides of The Faith coin (religious fanatics that also do help the poor in a meaningful, honest way)
- Brienne trying to rescue Sansa gives her plot an actual purpouse, makes her relevant to the story, and further developes her character, desperately in need of a great cause to defend
- Sansa replacing Jeyne puts higher stakes in the North subplot, makes her a constant presence during the season, makes Jon's decision about abbanoning his sister more dramatic, goes in line with her character development towards a cold-blooded manipulator able to withstand abuse in order to get her revenge, creates a great set up for a frey (or bolton) pie. Noone ever cared about Jeyne Poole, show watchers certainly won't
- Jon's plot has been speeded up, but it does work anyways. Why would you guys drag an already slow-burn character arc?
- Brienne's course of action against Stannis is the weakest link so far, it seems kinda forced to me. But her replacing the spearwive's role helps to tie in the meandering plots
People asking for the introduction of a ton of characters noone gives a shit about as a way to make the plot advance by bloating it as GRRM did in the book, Brienne's pointless road trip, Ironboring mary-sueing their way out of their shit stratgic blunders and Sansa disappearing for one entire season are simply out of their frigging minds. Hail to better version of the second parts of ASOIAF, I say
Preach.
I fully agree (some of those are my favourite shows, above GoT), but I don't equate that with "some of the worst acting on television".
Sho_Nuff82
Member
We knew most of the traveling stuff was never going to make it to TV due to budget and time. Varys monologue about the history of the free cities would have made for some tedious viewing.
Moff
Member
kekili was not a main character, and I don't see her being much worse than weiners son on mad men.
I think GOT had it's fair share of splendid acting. too bad some of them are dead (tywin, the hound and joffrey) and others simply don't engage in exciting stuff anymore (theon, arya). so at that point, I really don't see exciting acting anymore. harrington has improved though, and as bad as clarke is, the show watchers think she is annoying, which is exactly how she is in the book. so mission accomplished I guess.
Dusk Soldier
Member
Brienne is probably taking Mance's role in her rescue plot.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I also feel that the drastic departures have the beneficial side effect of reintroducing tension. I was actually worried for a moment that Jon wasn't going to kill Slynt.
I think we'll see more deliberate fakeouts as the season goes on.
The thought of Brienne stealthily moving about a castle she's never been in is quite a bit dumber than having Mance magically survive. Besides, without Mance, what exactly is Melisandre doing this season?
I think we'll see more deliberate fakeouts as the season goes on.
The thought of Brienne stealthily moving about a castle she's never been in is quite a bit dumber than having Mance magically survive. Besides, without Mance, what exactly is Melisandre doing this season?
Basileus777
Member
Brienne wouldn't go about it in the same way, we're talking general role here. And Melisandre doesn't actively do much with Mance past this point in the books either, Mance being dead doesn't change much for her.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
I really love how Ramsay changes from a sadistic psychopath to an approachable dude looking forward to his marriage
Trying to bone Jon Snow no doubt.
cartoon_soldier
Member
You got that from what?
She should be annoying by her actions not her exaggerated face expressions and awful line delivery. Those two are very much the central characters most important to the series and it's a valid criticism when they are the weakest links. To your point about her character in the books, well if anything the shows writing has only made her so much worse each season.
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